The whole romance subplot was poorly written and needed editing badly, IMHO. Sorry, but Anikan was too much of a baby-faced pouty boy for me.... and his dialogue, unromantic clumsy, and downright creepy.

I think the problem with these movies is that we know how they end, with Episode IV.

Our analysis is that it's a GOOD movie. Maybe not worthy of the first trilogy, but entertaining, and mostly Jar-Jar-free.

Lots of random thoughts (I'll try to do this without spoilers...):

The pacing was slow for the first 2/3.

I think Lucas is too enamoured of the digital technology - creating vistas and environements soo complex that they lose the payoff when we see a MAMMOTH clone army at the end (Courescant, clone factory, droid factory). I know you can render a bunch of stuff George (just wait till you get your Xserves), but Episode IV was great with NO RENDERING.

It feels kind of antseptic, without the gritty, lived-in universe Lucas pioneered (long before Outland or Alien).

Where's the witty Han-Luke-Leia-Threepio banter. A few Bondian thow-aways, but these people are somber.

In Eps.4-6, things happened FAST... get to the Asteriod belt that used to be Alderaan and BAM! here come TIE fighters... Lots of sitting around talking here.

OTOH, the Jedi battle was cool, but undecipherable. I couldn't tell who was winning until the Count called out to stop them. There was no flow or pacing to it. George, watch some samurai or pirate movies or something, huh?

But.

It was still a good movie. Worth the investment of the $8 and the 2.5 hours.

And WAAAAAAAY better than Episode I.

=bd

Still I will go and not be comfortable as I am awed by this movie. I have heard too many positive reviews to think that it will be disappointing. Plus could it be worse than the last one? Not bloody likely.

I dunno....I guess I must see it regardless of whether it is good or bad. Simply because I am tired of being kicked out of conversations with friends who are discussing details of the movie, and insist that they cannot ruin it for me.

//Thom//

Wasn't sure how to feel about Yoda being all computer animated. I mean, of course some of the end scenes kind of required it (duh) but I miss the muppet version.

I wrote a more complete glowing review here if anyone is interested. I would have posted it in this thread but it's laden with spoilers and I'm not sure how you guys feel about that.

I think it funny when we talk about the writing in acting in these movies. I mean, not even Alec Guiness acted well in epIV. ALEC FREAKIN' GUINESS! I think the problem with these three is that it's been 25 years since the first one came out, and we've forgotten why we like them. Star Wars is not an amazing movie in the same way that, say, Ben Hur or Lawrence of Arabia were good movies. It hits you on a different level. The plot is nothing to get excited about on it's own. He's just translating Joseph Campbell's interpretation of the hero cycle directly to the screen. Lucas even admits that. The acting's never been that great, and the dialog always has a lot of cheesy and forced moments. These critiques apply to all five movies in the Star Wars series. Yet, the movies are still amazing. They still make me sit and just watch and not even realize "it's been over 2 frickin' hours! I need to get to work!"

I say bravo, Mr. Lucas. I still haven't figured out how you do it, but you did, and I am, as I said, "well pleased."

I must admit you guys are starting to get me a bit enthusiastic about seeing it. Just the idea that you get to see Yoda fight....computer animation or not....WOWSA! Yep I'm ready. The few remaining questions are butter or no butter on the popcorn, and how large should the popcorn be. What the hell are junior mints doing in movie theaters? What is the probability that someone behind you will drop their drink thus letting you enjoy a mudslide of assorted goop between your legs........?

That is all

This is not the post you are looking for

//Thom//

ANAKIN'S GONNA DO PADME! ANAKIN'S GONNA DO PADME! YAY!

Why was it, when TPM came out, that it didn't start out "An even longer time ago, in a galaxy a little closer than it was?"

I'll prolly go see it again, Monday, to look at detailed viewing, but being in the senate sure took a lot out of Padme's character...she was such a cold bitch thru most of the movie, I sometimes wondered what Ani saw in her.

quote:

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Originally posted by Snaggy:
Sad to say I did not enjoy the movie. ......

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I am disturbed by your lack of faith.

quote:

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she was such a cold bitch thru most of the movie, I sometimes wondered what Ani saw in her.

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The force was making them fall in love. Remember Anikin brings balance to the force, but not with out help. so it was the force, i mea, if i was her, there is no way i would consider a guy like him, he had some obvious issues.
Nayt

All in all, however, I slept through 1/3 of the movie. The other 1/3 I was cringing through. "Hi, I'm smart, independent senator lady and I'm in love with a psychotic, brooding, teenage staulker." Right. And we are suppose to believe this? Not even the force is that strong.

I think they should have made Anakin less of an asshole. The love scenes would be plausible then. Plus, in the original star wars, darth vader is not a bad impression of david spade - he's just scary. If they would have made Anakin a nice guy, then have him go beserk on the sand people, it would have been so much more ominous. Then, when Padme dies in the next episode (i'm sure she will) he can go beserk again and switch over to the Dark Side.

Why did no one act in the movie, but Macgregor and Jackson? Honestly, the Storm Troopers in the first 3 episodes had more personality. I kept thinking to myself, "These people are spunky! Look, the senator is risking her life to go to the planet with the people who want to kill her? Why does their dialogue/acting/emotions not match their actions?"

quote:

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Originally posted by macadddikt18:
The force was making them fall in love. Remember Anikin brings balance to the force, but not with out help. so it was the force, i mea, if i was her, there is no way i would consider a guy like him, he had some obvious issues.
Nayt

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You're right! If Dunghead is supposed to bring balance to the Force, why does no one ask the obvious question, "What does balance mean?"

Episodes 1 and 2 seem to say that, with the "Light side" having been dominant 'for a thousand years,' the supressed "Dark side" has to come out. Episode 4 starts out with the "Dark side" already in power, waiting for the "Light" to re-emerge.

IMHO, if the Jedi Council is wiped out, it's their own damned fault! The rulers appear so hidebound and rigid in their thinking that their inability to change will be their undoing. Even Yoda, who faded into obscurity after the Council is disbanded/destroyed, was unwilling or unable to change or grow any further.

Seriously, a definite improvement over Episode I. It felt much more "Star Wars"...if that makes any sense to anyone. More dark and forboding. I liked that they included a few minor characters fro the original trilogy, so we could see how they got involved in the first place. Less Jar Jar and more 3P0 and R2! Mace Windu and Yoda...cooool. And needless to say, bee-yoo-tee-ful visuals, sound, and score!!

Yes, Anakin and Amidala seemed a bit stiff at times. Maybe it was bad acting. Or maybe that's how the characters were meant to be. Think about it...Jedi are trained to control their emotions and have a "serious mind"...but they probably don't get much chance to learn how to be a smooth talker with the ladies. But as Anakin proves, not even the most rigorous training can always quash that impulsive, rebellious teenage attitude...ergo his downfall. Amidala has spent most of her life as a politician/diplomat, so she probably would have that "calm and cool, prim and proper" thing engrained into her pretty well.

I dunno. The acting there seemed appropriate to me, for the most part. Granted, they're not Oscar-worthy performances, but if you want that, you should probably be watching dramas and not sci-fi. Goodness knows sci-fi/fantasy never gets a fair shake from the Academy anyway. ::grumbles again at the thought of Fellowship not getting best picture::

Anyway...yes. Episode II was quite worthy in my eyes. I left the theater happy and with the feeling that Ep III will be even better, as the sheep begins to really hit the fan.

quote:

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Originally posted by Twinkle Toes:
I'm gonna see AOFT tomorrow,...er today,...it'll be the 18th for sure! Anywho, I'll come right back to GC and give my nifty little review of it !

ANAKIN'S GONNA DO PADME! ANAKIN'S GONNA DO PADME! YAY!

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...Don't look at me, I don't even know what the hell I was talking about.

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Now I'll never get to see 'em do it...

But I digress... I thought the first part of the movie and any scene that had Anakin in it was pretty bad, but it did pick up in the second half and became a decent movie. I admit Natalie Portman wearing less and less clothes as the movie progressed might have influenced my thinking a bit.

In the larger context of showing the moral ambiguity of many of the character's actions over the span of the entire sequence of movies, it was rather interesting. I even had a little compassion for jar jar who was clearly thrown yet again in to a situation for which he was not prepared, but was doing the best that he could (why he was given the responsibility is another question entirely though).

When viewed from the perspective that all heroes must have a tragic flaw and that drama is a creation of the tug of war between the character's heroic greatness and the tragic flaw one has to admit that the stories themselves have some merit. Unfortunatley in my opinion, the terrible writing and acting get in the way much more in the recent episodes than they did in the earlier ones.

Well, I have to say, the acting was pretty abysmal in EP2. Hell, even Yoda was a better actor than Anakin. But in Lucas' defense, Mark Hamill wasn't all that great in Star Wars back in 1977, either. Carrie Fisher is only a year or so older than me, so I remember Star Wars well. We'd never seen anything like it before. Lucas literally rewrote the genre of Science Fiction and of adventure movies while he was at it. Back then, it was great good fun, fast-paced entertainment and something we could feel good about believing in. The story has become darker and more complex over the years, and there aren't any more easy answers in the plot, which is half the problem.

The best Star Wars movie, The Empire Strikes Back, was scripted by the late lamented Leigh Brackett, the same luminary who wrote Bogart and Bacall's first movie (To Have and Have Not ), and who wrote some SF literature back in the 60's, if I'm not mistaken. Empire, now *that* was a script.

Clones was a snore. Thirteen freakin' costumes, and I did *not* see a suitcase on the back of that speeder bike. That's George Lucas' idea of "girl appeal" in a movie. EXCUSE ME? How about chicks with lightsabers? Oh yeah, there were maybe two. And in 2:28 of movie, they got between them maybe 90 seconds of screen time in the background and no lines. Good grief! I sure hope he makes Episode 7 with Tim Zahn's memorable Mara Jade.

But the computer animation, Wowee! Holy cow, that's a designer's wet dream. What I would have given to have been on that design and animation team... "Hey guys, look what I made Yoda do!" "Wow, let's see how many times we can flip him with that lightsaber!"

The best part for me was getting to threaten the little pest behind me who wouldn't stop kicking the back of my head with getting thrown out of the theater and missing the fight scenes. Even his father agreed with me.

Just bitching. Bad hair day.

quote:

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Originally posted by LifetimeTrekker:I suppose it will take Episode 7 for anyone to realize that there is no dark or light side to the Force. It's not the Force that's out of balance, it's the perceptions and motivations of the users!

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My rants:
I didn't like their choice for Skywalker, and wanted more Yoda. I am also finding it hard to believe that Jedi don't have a clue what power they have handed Palintine(sp?), and haven't asked the questions they should be asking about the bounty hunter and origin of the clone army. Also, I noticed a lack of Force during the battle scene at the arena...

My Raves:
YODA WAS AWESOME! I liked the little Jedi Padwans that Yoda was teaching(and yoda's sence of humor), and the scene where he fights is awsome. The number of subplots, and how they are tied together was great, reminicent of the original trilogy. The music was FANTASTIC, really great work, with new arrangements of the older work and some great new stuff... Williams did an outstanding on this one. That last few scenes were well put together and emotionally powerfull.

But there were two scenes alone that made up for it:

The scene in the arena when all the sabers lit up. A chill ran through my body, and I had to resist jumping up and yelling "You guys are in SOO much trouble now!"

And then of course the Yoda scene. I don't even know how to describe that scene. Simply awesome. I realize some people thought it was funny or ridiculous, but they were WRONG!... YODA IS FOOKIN AWESOME!

I must say my third favorite part was when Ani got his arm chopped off... His character was ridiculous and irritated me throughout the entire movie.

I love the computer animation. It looked great. It did leave me with a too pretty and not enough gritty feeling though. Everything is so shiny, and while I like really shiny things it was not the way the original tril was. I suppose that yes they didn't have the tech to make everything shiny back then, but how did they go from having all these shiny ships that have mirror-like finishes to beat up battle-scarred crap in the tril? Even the Empire's ships look beat up in the O-tril.... *shrug* I hate nitpicking, but thought since everyone else was I might as well give it a try.

//Thom//

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"It can't rain all the time"

Just think "the empire has a shitty public works department" and that will explain why everything gets dirty and old looking.

//Thom//

Before we vacate a house on-base, we're expected to get it to shine -- and, of course, dorms are subject to inspection, so the occupants clean periodically, at least the day before inspection. And for the government offices, it's relatively easy to justify the expense of a can of mop'n'glo and have cleaning part of the required duties of the occupants (at least for military -- civil service also needs to justify the expense of a cleaning service, but that's pretty easy too).

But the money to maintain these structures requires an act of Congress (literally). So they go decades without serious upkeep, then a little money gets thrown at them for some critical last-minute item, such as replacing the gables, and then eventually it gets cheaper to replace than repair -- which means money doesn't even get appropriated for repairs while waiting (years) for money to be appropriated for replacement.

So you end up with buildings that are falling apart but look real clean and superficially pristine on the inside.

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cb
Oooh! What does this button do!?

But no we're talking about sci-fi....as in not reality.

*shrug* ok I give up already. sheesh! fuhgeddaboutit.....

This'll teach me to try and nitpick movies...

./Thom stop

"This doesn't make sense"
"Well, here's a real life example"
"But this is science fiction, not reality"

Then why does there need to be an explanation in the first place?

I think it's better the second time, because you know where all the moderately lame bits are and can kinda just internally scoff, rather than thinking "Is this how this is going to go for 2 frelling hours?!?!".

But I think I may have a NEW TAKE on why the acting, at least with the Imperials (Republicans?), seems so much stiffer than Eps 4-6...

Episodes 1-3 are "Period Pieces"!

Think about it... this was like 70 years before 4-6. How did people talk around here 70-100 years ago (c.1930, say)? Really formal, not as casual as today. And certainly the monarchies or upper-classes would be more formal.

Example: Obi-wan talking to Dex in the diner was very casual and relaxed, but throw a Senator or Chancellor into the mix and things get formal.

Think of all the movies about the late 1800's to early 1900's, with the powdered wigs and such... very formal, and different speech patterns from what we're used to.

So think about it that way, and see if it makes sense.

Oh, and seeing the Yoda fight scene again was even cooler... since I wasn't as stunned, I could really see the details of what he was doing...

=bd

"Yes, a Jedi's strength flows from the Force. But beware of the dark side. Anger, fear, aggression; the dark side of the Force are they. Easily they flow, quick to join you in a fight. If once you start down the dark path, forever will it dominate your destiny, consume you it will, as it did Obi-Wan's apprentice!" Yoda, Star Wars: Episode V - The Empire Strikes Back (1980)

One of the things I didn't like about it was those annoying somewhat awkward silences at the end of each 'scene'.

<Padme and Anakin kiss>

Padme: *pulls away* "I shouldn't have done that."

Anakin: "..."...*nods head*...

I thought that was bad acting...but oh well. All in all, it was a pretty good flick. I did get a headache, though, from all of the unnecessary shooting and whatnot. I mean, it didn't used to be like that in the other episodes...from what I remember anywho. New technology (certainly the bad kind) got the better of Lucas.

Maybe he stop fight because he lost his good friend, I guess?

Episode II is set ten years after Episode I. During this time, Anakin has been held up as some great and wonderful hope to the rest of the Jedi because he's so full of it ... err, full of the force that is, and the Jedi drop not-so-subtle hints that they know he could be turned to the dark side if they aren't careful.

So... if you had a powerful ally who could become an enemy if you didn't control him just right, wouldn't you try to ensure your control over him as well as you could? Wouldn't you try to make him feel as though he was eternally in your debt?

If you're a Jedi, the answer is apparently no, you wouldn't bother. You'd leave Anakin's stinkin' mother to rot for the last ten years on some backwater planet where she was sold into slavery to cover debts. It would make too much sense to, I dunno, play the part of the good guy and buy the kid's mother out of slavery in order to ensure his gratitude and loyalty.

And for Anakin the answer is also no... he conveniently forgets about her, despite being easily able to make real time telephone calls to the farthest reaches of the universe. Being the dumbass that he is, he has repeated nightmares about her, thinking she's hurt, and can't take the time to make a freakin' phone call. Until it's too late, that is, then he can get all worried and take the time to fly across the galaxy to where he last remembers her being in order to finally find out that Watto sold her off "years ago" (the actual phrase from Watto's lines) to a moisture farmer. You'd think the ungrateful little snot would at least give her a call on her birthday or mothers day or something.

jar jar is the only funny thing these movies have going for them(other than 3P0's homosexuality and yoda's funny version of english)

this movie wuz full of cheesey dialogue as they all are.. after watching it a few times i decided to pop in the original trilogy.. this one doesnt even come close.. george lucas has good actors in these movies just like in the original trilogy(minus Hayden Christensen of course) but he spends too much time on the special effects and ignores the acting this time around... and lets face it yoda's scene wuz kickass but definitely not worth the 8dollars necessary...

i paid like 5.. but newayz.. the movie still sucks