STORY 1
The first story... I was single (well, sorta single�. Long story, and not for here. ) and I was camping up north near West Bend WI, with my Grandmother quite a few years ago. I really never had any contact with my dad, until he came up to take care of my Grandmother as she tried to cope with the loss of my grandfather. I was always close to my Dad�s parents, and still am close to my Grandmother. Anyhow, It was the last night (Saturday) before we went (Sunday afternoon). Well, a number of bad things had happened that weekend and the Saturday event at the barn (the general store for the camp ground was an old barn, and every Saturday they had social stuff in the hay loft) would be the medicine the doctor ordered. �Who knows I might see some drunk people make fools of them selves,� I thought. Anyway, the event was a sock hop, Wisconsin style (a sock hop song between ever other polka) and my dad was trying to get his stiff your city boy to losen up and dance with someone. I told him that there wasn�t anyone my age for me dance with, but that wouldn�t do. He told me something very importartant. The only thing my father taught me�. Was �.. �Dance form 6 to 60.� He argued that there is a fetching young lady, as pointed to a 50-something year old wife of a drinking buddy of his. They forced me onto the floor, and I did have a goo time for that song. I wanted to dance, but I wanted a young lady (my age) to dance with. Anyway, it wasn�t long until I heard the same dreaded moan that I was making, just a bit more girly�. Ah, a girl my age. I ordinarily wouldn�t have approached, but my dad�s all too carefree adittude was bothering me and she was kind of cute (like really cute). The girl�s aunt was trying to get her to dance with her, and so I put on my game face and walked over. �Hello, would either of you ladies care to dance� looking dead into the brilliant pools of blue that were the young girls eyes. She looked at me, and shook head teasingly. So the aunt grabbed my arm, pulled me onto the dance floor (winked a �this�ll work�� wink). Well, after the song ended, I sat down beside her (the girl, not the aunt) and asked her if she wanted to. I laid it on think, I had her blushing and smiling and giggling, but not dancing. Grrrrrrr�.
Anyway, Her friends stopped in for a moment and some of them danced with me, but still no go. Night�s end came to quickly, and with and the night ended.

Was it a failure? Not by any means. We flirted up a storm, and one of the last few dances the aunt pulled me onto the floor to tell me �She likes you, she is just shy and is afraid to dance�� which I already knew, but at least I read the signs right for once. Never saw her again. I had the time of life because I put myself out there, and wasn�t afraid to make a fool out of myself. It was obvious because of nervousness that I genuinely was interested, and I was charismatic because I took the chance. All the single guys who said �But, that�s embarrsing� or �I�m single, why would I go and get flowers� or �But I�m shy� in response to the MISSON GEEKY, here�s some advice you need to follow (I need to more often): �DANCE FROM 6 TO 60!!!!�

STORY 2
Now, the failure story. Remember my first post? It was a new thread called �Found geekette in traing, how do I ask her out?� Well, I was too scared to ask her out, and guess who she�s dating? A geek from the lab who did. The worst thing she could have said was �no,� but I thought �no� would be the end of the world. And it�s not as you�ll see in my last story.

STORY 3
This one really is a little too short to be a story� It is just about human reaction. I got onto the bus on my way home the other day. There was a girl who was abslutly beautiful, and as I got on, she looked at me and smiled. She was too young for me, only a little nothing morally wrong for me to look at. I sat in the sat behind her and we�d exchange glances� Playing this silent game where I�d catch her glancing at her, and she�d turn away, I�d watch her a little while, until she noticed and I�d pretend I wasn�t looking, and she smile when she caught me� Now, y�all are going to say, that�s nothing. But I think your wrong. I think it is a prime exsample of natural human behavior that carries a lot of meanings. Body language, flirting and pheromones are powerful communication devices that we geeks have a tendency to over look. After all, she couldn�t be looking at me could she?

STORY 4
I am most proud of this as it was only a day or two ago, and I didn�t think I could. I have never, until now, asked a girl for her number. It was funny�. I never saw her before, and she gets on the bus and makes eye contact with me. Ibecome nervous for no reason, but then, she sits in the seat next to me (well my things between us)� She sees that I am mulling something over, and I think she knew what. We didn�t speak for most of the ride. My mind is running, saying all these things: �You don�t know her, you just think she looks good. Today, most people would ask her for her number, and see what happens� but I don�t want to approach anyone because of how they look that is superficial and destine for ruin.� Anyway, a few blocks from my stop I finally realize �If I don�t , I could be missing out on something that might work out�� So, I put all of my high moral substance aside, calm my heart that felt like a heart attack and opened my mouth and spoke�. I ment to say �Hi, I rarely do this sorta thing. My name is Jeremy. I was really wondering if I could have your number�.� What came out: �Hi, I never do this, but my name is Jeremy�..� She shakes my hand and sits there while I turn bright pink thinking �Uhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh���.. I was supposed to do something else�.. oh yeah!� �Can I have your phone number� comes spilling nervously out of my mouth. Then I realized, she was smiling through the whole thing, blushing, but smiling too. And she says, �Thank you, ever so much�.. But, I�ve got a boyfriend.� She was genuinely flattered, blushing and cheesing, and afterward I felt like a million. I may have �struck out� with this girl, but what did lose? She felt good that some one as obviously genuine as this geek stumbling over his own tongue asks for what was quite apparently to be his first number. Granted that I have been in long term relationshios but I didn�t know how to do this�..

THE POINT
I may point out that I have been approached by 3 girls, since being single (February), but none of them really clicked with me. I say this only to mean that, yes, if you wait long enough they�ll come to you� But, the chances are much greater if you take the risk.
You can�t lose by taking a chance, you only lose if you miss the opertunity. So, the next geek who says �I�m too shy� I get to yell�. And please some yell me about the current state of affairs in my life.

THE STATE OF THE DRESS (or something like that)
There is a girl who is computer-science student from India (who�s name I cannot begin to pronounce), whom I�ve found very attractive since the beging of last semester. We never really had a chance to talk, but she and I always would meet (and keep) eye contact and smile at each other. I was too shy to approach her, but these two new turns of events makes think I have what it takes to ask her out. We talked a little bit a couple of times during the spring semester. On one occasion just a word or two as I was leaving, and on another she was cramming for the final outside of the room 10 mins before (where she did make reference to �Well, you�ll have no problem with it, being the best� I was a bit of a show off�). Well, today I ran into her, and we spoke and smiled, and it dawned on me that I could really like this girl. Granted I know little about her, but there is just something about her that I can�t put my finger on. We�ll have more classes together, and one of them might even be starting in a week (week and half) from now�. I also realize that the only reason that I had so little trouble with asking the one girl, mentioned in the above story, is because there wasn�t anything to it. Here, I do have feelings, albeit not earth shatteringly profound, yet (gotta love those prepositions!!!). So, someone please yell at me, and kick my butt until I follow my dad�s and now my own advice.

First off... the fact that girls actually look and smile at you is something that I don't have to my advantage, it doesn't feature in my life (maybe girls around here don't like men with long hair and beards). I certainly do look at other girls, but I can, and do, perform such acts without smiling, which I do realise is unfortunate - it really would help to do so, I think, but I'd only want to show that level of interest within an enclosed situation - that is, waiting at a bus stop, as opposed to someone at a distance or who is otherwise not in a position to be able to start a conversation with. However, such situations occur with such infrequency that I can't build the mental training for that. Not that I don't smile (far from it), I'm just too ponderous when it comes to eyeing up people.

That aside, considering your advice - I think that it is pretty much obvious. I don't need to have it explained that taking actions is considerably better than doing nothing. However, my reaction to it was just that of depression, to see that someone else can do what I can't. There is a girl I've been chatting to at the bus stop recently, though hardly at all for well over a week now - we catch different buses and bus timing such that it is gives us too little time to get into any conversation. I guess I could ask her for her number (even her name might help) but something is telling me that she's not right - a hunch, but one I cannot prove to be true yet.

However, still living at home, I don't want to be seen or known to have any interest in girls... I've been teased before about girls I've either fancied or, indeed, not at all, and I can't face the idea of making a relationship known, nor do I want to keep it steeped in secrect. The combination of my self-consciousness and living at home is proving very stifling, yet living elsewhere is something I don't know whether I could do yet (which at 21 is most concerning) for both emotional and knowledge/experience reasons. Were I living alone, I'd feel freer to live my own life, and that would lift a burden from my mind. I should have moved out when I started university, and gone to live amongst other people in the same boat. However, now I'd just feel stupid and usless around other people who are more capable, so I don't feel inclined to do it now.

Life is complex, and is a large tree, of which the leaves are symptoms, and the branches all the causes stemming from each other. The question is, is the solution to be found from a top-down approach (dealing with symptoms to lead to cures for the causes), or bottom-up, addressing the root causes, and letting that reduce the symptoms?

The answer to all that is probably best to shut out the world, forget about girls and everyone else with them, listen to some good trance, and put the finishing touches to my Open Recent menu manager, and decide whether my hierarchical window (menu) manager should store and manage window hierarchies, or just indent new items appropriately (as it does now)? Guess I'll wait until I write an app that needs it, I just added the hierarchical bit for geeky pride (Delphi folks will rofl at this point, as they get a Window menu done for them, but then, MDI Win32 apps are kinda dead, so it's a redundant concept now anyhow).

Oh well, make of all that rubbish what you will, it matters not. Some people say it's good to be able to tell people stuff, get it off your chest, but that's not the first time I've explained that stuff, and it never does any good. Gave the keyboard a good workout though :) *pats the Mac*

I was most amused, taken, she just had to be, njkol, taθ raen ktahnrev - and yet, that's just life for you. It enjoys things like that.

To quote Homer Simpson:

You tried and you failed...the lesson is, never try.

Ok, that's just me being funny. You did learn something by just taking a chance and sticking your neck out. Good job.

Ok, here is the short version: Live. If you don't make a move, you'll never know what could have happened. Oh, it's getting a bit long, better get to my comments to uilleann. If you think that I am being mean, Jesta, I am sorry... *thinks* Or am I?

uilleann, I must admit the fact that you still think that "[S]omeone else can do what I can't." Granted, that the advice is obvious, and almost clich�, but the fact of the matter is that hearing it helps. If a few people, here and else where, hadn't pushed me to be a bit more forward, I wouldn't have had all the thoughts running through my head that made me finaly act. I realize that it is easier to be depressed and single than to build up the courage, but no action no reward (No gut, no glory).

You say: "However, still living at home, I don't want to be seen or known to have any interest in girls... I've been teased before about girls I've either fancied or, indeed, not at all, and I can't face the idea of making a relationship known, nor do I want to keep it steeped in secrec[y]" But, I too am living at home, and so was my brother for several years that I was dating my first girlfriend. He teased me relentlessly about dating that "geek," if only he had a clue. Why do you care what anyone else thinks? If your happy, and she's happy; to hell with the rest of the world. And, about... "The combination of my self-consciousness and living at home is proving very stifling, yet living elsewhere is something I don't know whether I could do yet (which at 21 is most concerning) for both emotional and knowledge/experience reasons." I too live at hame, when I was really young my mother made a deal with my brother and I, one that he would never take (as he thinks himself stupid because of his dyslecia (which I probably have, too)) that we can stay for free in her house as long we are working and in college. Yes, it is concerning and I look forward to having an appartment, but I don't have the money at the moment to move out. I know a lot of people who are still home at my age, and so I know that I won't be shunned for it.

I can understand that there is reason to be down-trodden and not willing to put your self out there, but you'll find that they are more about what you think than what is. Besides look at this:
"Oh well, make of all that rubbish what you will, it matters not."
They say No to your "rubbish" and think what they will, but it matters not.

"Some people say it's good to be able to tell people stuff, get it off your chest, but that's not the first time I've explained that stuff, and it never does any good. Gave the keyboard a good workout though" Well, if it didn't feel good confessing that bit, perhaps there is a stem of the causes of your feas that you have yet to realize? I personally think that the tree is non-exsistant, that the problems are in preception. It is like a hypercondriac's illness, they refuse to believe that it is as simple as it is. Perhaps what you need is a sugar pill, or water with red foodcoloring in a perscription bottle. I'm not saying that it is all in your head, but it is all in your head... Get it?

Alright, let's look at something else. Glass. Pretty isn't it? *holds up a pane of glass* Now, I look through it and I see a world, and I can enjoy the rainbow and watching the wind gentely blow the flower... peacefull, sweet glass. It starts to rain, and I pull inside of glass, and I don't get soaked by the storm. The storm gets worse, and all the people out side are running for shettler, but your safe behind your glass. Well, the next day, the same pretty scene unfolds, the flowers and the breeze. You can't feel the breeze, but you can imagine. Your safe, you don't have to worry about the storm. Then, the other happy frolicing people begin to play together, and you decide to leave your pane of glass to join them. *carefully puts glass down* You begin to run and play with them, but then the bully on the block pushes you down on the ground, and you skin a knee. Well, you crawl back to glass, and hide. Your safe again, inside your glass sheild. The icecreme truck comes and all the happy people go running and get icecreme, your about to go with them, but you look down at your skinned knee, and decide not to leave the glass. Time passes, and you figgure that the little you miss out on is worth the safety, but then one day, another person wants to drag out into the real world. She and you talk through the glass for quite a while, and you decide that you do want to go with her... But you can't find the exit. So, she breaks the glass to get you out, and the shards of crystlin glass go spraying all over the plave, glimering as the rain down to the ground and all over you and her. Your covered in splinters of glass, and so is she. She, however, now being hurt, hides behind her own glass. She is still hurt and you want to help her, but alas, you can't get into her glass to even wipe away her tears. You feel helpless, and you can't think that it was a mistake to talk to her, and that you should build a brick wall next time instead of enjoying the sight of things that might tempt yu, because you fear it may harm you.

The Tao says:
Not exsalting the gifted prevents quarling,
Not collecting treasres prevents stealling,
Not seeing desirable things prevents confusion of the heart.

The wise therefore rule by streangthing bone and weakening ambithon.
By stuffing bellies and Emptying minds.
If nothing is gained, than nothing is lost.

The wise men will not try to interfer.

I used to believe in this philosphy, and dawned it when it became convenit. I dated my first love for a month, and she dumped me. She dated a few people, including another mutual best friend. She was still my best friend and it hurt to see her. I didn't want her around, because it hurt to see her, but I still needed to see her as I loved her. She kept in contact with me, dispite my best efforts not to contact her. After about a year, the mutual friend, who knew I still loved her, who loved her himself, and knew she loved me (but would never tell me, because she was afraid I'd never forgive her) steped aside and set us back up. We were together for 3 years after. three of my happiest years. The fourth year, she went away to college, as she was a year ahead of me, I stayed behind. I felt like the world was passing me up, and I thought that all I had to do was be stong and she'd be back. Well, in my attempt to be strong, when she'd cry to me on the phone about missing me, I'd wall myself in and tell her "it's just a little while, no big deal." When I missed her more than she will ever know. The wall I was building strianed the relationship, and while she was away we were both changing. We grew apart, instead of together, and IT IS all my fault. I meet a girl, who became a close friend really quickly. I didn't realize it untill later, but I was falling in love with her. When I realized it, I retreated to my wall, and shut down. I didn't eat, I didn't sleep. I couldn't love them both, could I? After weeks of being a walking zombie, the girl I had just meet asked "What has been wrong lately?" and I said simply "You know." A week or two later I was doing something I thought I'd never do. I had to hurt a girl I was in love with either way I went. I swore I shouldn't have opend my mouth, but in the long run, I turned out alright. I did a lot ofthings I wasn't proud of, like changing my mind, and thus began another intresting long story. Well, I chose the new girl, and was with her for the past three (three and half), untill I was dumped the weekend after valintines.

Yes, love is hard, but shutting myself off was the source of most of my own pain. I am now older, wiser, and willing to be a bit more forward. The point is still: [i]Carpe Deim[\i].

buh:
So, so true. Not knowing how someone feels, or what the right action to take, in these situations is never fun. I think a certain proportion of my amusement at the situation was just me feeling happy just because I knew where I stood at last, and relieved that I no longer have to worry over it.

GameMaster: (quotations in bold face)
Let me start by saying that, despite the length of my earlier post, it is by no means accurate or complete, and thus I expected you to make assumptions and comments on it that don't match my real life, but only that much of it that I listed earlier.

Granted, that the advice is obvious, and almost clich�, but the fact of the matter is that hearing it helps...<snip> I personally think that the tree is non-exsistant, that the problems are in preception. It is like a hypercondriac's illness, they refuse to believe that it is as simple as it is. Perhaps what you need is a sugar pill, or water with red foodcoloring in a perscription bottle.
Not to me, hearing only makes it worse, stirring up the unpleasant nature of reality at the present. I need some sort of incentive to take action, of a form that even I do not yet know. Fear, of just about everything to some extent or another, is probably the key to it all. Fear of action leads to avoidance of action, which leads to feeling better from not "having" to do it, which leads to being afraid of the effort involved, or something like that, and with more besides all that.

These feelings govern all of my life, which is wasting away, though I usually let myself forget about it. Involvement with these forums, and chatting online, is damned near most of my life now, the rest is just slacked or wasted through doing little else of any worth (and that includes work). I'm of the impression that I'm too afraid and too lazy to do any work at all in the final year, I did almost none last year. Maybe the solution is simple, as in how an entire tree can be felled by attacking the trunk, but the symptoms are widespread and pervasive. The fear itself may even have lower down causes.

But, I too am living at home, and so was my brother for several years that I was dating my first girlfriend. He teased me relentlessly about dating that "geek," if only he had a clue. Why do you care what anyone else thinks? If your happy, and she's happy; to hell with the rest of the world.
Actually, my sister (three years my junior) did have a boyfriend for a while recently, and not only was he a very poor choice (and she's now got to contend with a great deal of anger and hurt he over that relationship)(but that's beside the point) but my parents were a bit opressive and restrictive, and it didn't help her. She's 18, so I think they should give her a chance. I'm 21, and age or no, I rather suspect they'd let me do whatever they hell I want (they've given up on me now, just about, they no longer really know who or what I am, although some well-kept secrets (that I like music (that's another story entirely)) are escaping).

Even so, there are people who have thick skins and have the self-confidence to believe in themselves and not let others' incorrectly low views tarnish reality. However, I don't have that, and I need to feel accepted by others for any indications that I'm of some value. Unless, of course, I tune the world out, and with no-one around, my achievements (usually in programming, on the odd occasions I can overcome my fears of effort to do so (and that is worth it, definitely)) are no longer placed in context of others', so I can enjoy them just for what they are.

Furthermore, if other people's comments and reactions are negative, it a) influences negative feelings in me, and would threaten to bring down a fog of bad feelings over any time spent with a girl, and b) builds associations of fear and negativity with activities such as dating, and make me too afraid to be seen participating in them, or to even mention them.

Actually, I think my work over the weekend was an example in my life of a partial analogy to the main issue at hand. I did finally bring myself to work on my Window Menu Manager (Friday night) and (not being able to drag work out of myself on Saturday, and depression driving me to do something productive on Sunday) then my Open Recent Menu Manager. It took effort to get started, and to keep going when my code was not working (my fault for lacking the mindset to plan beforehand, laziness, fear of effort, fear of failure) until I was finally victorious with some neat code and the joy that accompanies sweet success. Never finished ORM, though.

Granted, it parallels love in the sense that effort did pay off (and also, when it doesn't, projects get abandoned and die), but it differs in that there was no-one around - the seclusion, and lack of involvement with anyone else, makes it a markedly different situation.

Transferring that secluded little experience out into the real world, and finding romance, involves dealing with the issues where that situation is far too simplistic a comparison and does not follow reality.

Even so, seizing the moment is still some way off at best even if I were to feel ready and able to stick out my neck. First would have to come situations in which I might actually meet people. Sure, there are girls around in the cafe outside the office at uni, but they are generally in at least pairs, and I think just going up to some and trying to start something is out of the question. Thus, situations are called for that actually involve socialising. Only then will it be likely that I might find myself in conversation with someone with whom a relationship can be formed. Furthermore, such situations might include those of certain themes or interests from which conversation can be drawn without having to start with that dreaded concept of small talk.

I need to get out more, however, that is something I don't plan on doing alone, and the only candidate for a partner in crime for such plans is PhAtfiSh, and he is too reclusive to even go to the cinema with me now. At the moment, all the fellow students on my course have scattered as this is our industrial placement year; in October, I'll be able to get together with Steve again, and he might be able to offer the incentive (or tie me up with a rope and drag me kicking and screaming) to go somewhere social, where I will be either a confused and silent tag-along, or nervous and turn neurotic and embarrass myself into confusion. Good times ahead, it seems :-) To whomever invented IRC, we should be forever grateful =) And to Dark Shadow for ShadowIRC, such a sweet little client. But I digress.

Actually, what I wonder is, why do such feelings even exist? I'm not so much making a conscious, rational decision that love is beneficial and import. Rather, I have emotions that exist and won't go away, longings, desires, which all seem to serve no purpose. I tend to only deal with facts and information (small talk being pointless as it achieves nothing - I have nothing to ask, and nothing to tell), and love is pretty much useless. Trouble is, it's there, and makes either undergo Vulcan training, or suffer the consequences of the efforts needed to try and appease its wrathful desire.

Part of being human, alas.

Alas, quite what the points of the glass tale, and the account which followed it, are, I don't know. You've been there, done more, experienced more, and it's really up to those others who can see things from that perspective to comment on that, and the original five stories.

As for the accounts of short-lived experiences - I'm an all-or-nothing person, and don't want to be troubled with what, to me, seems like pointless exercises, especially as with girls my memory, usually particularly bad, would probably recall those experiences for ever more, reminding me of what I miss. However, I do know that these experiences are good for you, it's just that there is a big divide with me between my logic and my emotions, and though I know a lot of the answers, solutions or facts, my emotions concur not and will hold me back unless I get the strength to hack through the bad ones like the price tackling the forest when rescuing Sleeping Beauty to reach the good in me.

I didn't cover all your points - and don't plan to, I plan to have a shower and go to bed, because I'm tired. I don't really expect this to come to any good, you're not the first person to offer advice to my pitiful ramblings, and won't be the last. But advice won't work - it isn't that I don't know the answers, it's just that I can't bring myself to follow the advice. I can't really believe things until they are upon me, or act on them until they happen, or change until a starkly real incentive is there.
I can't bring myself to revise for an exam that I know is coming, until it's virtually upon me and my emotions are struck by the reality of how close it is. And I can't follow advice until my emotions are empowered by an incentive, either powerful and hard-hitting (not sure if that's happened yet), or just subtle, but effective in ways that I understand not but know exist.

Thus, only someone around me, and who physically shares my life, could really do that, I think. And that position will not be filled in any manner until October.

- Uilleann

quote:

---

Originally posted by GameMaster:
There is a girl who is computer-science student from India (who�s name I cannot begin to pronounce), whom I�ve found very attractive since the beging of last semester.

---

If you want to make a good impression on her you could do a lot worse than find out how to pronounce her name before the next time you say hello to her

"Hey! How come you know my name so well? Hrm... I bet THEY told you, THEY've been spying on me... hang on... maybe you are one of THEM!"
(guess that solves that mystery at last)

Which would tell her a few things:
1.) I am not embarrasssd to admit I don't know how to say it.
2.) I am intrested in using it (i.e. want to talk to her more).
3.) Want to know more about her.

Also, she is probably used to having it misprounounced and if I asked instead of just butchring it, I'd show that I actually care about geetting it right. One of the first rules of getting buy in the world, espeically in bussniess, is that no word is more sacred to a person then their own name. Well, to ask her or to find out ahead of time... hmmm... thoughts?

Rereading the "THE STATE OF THE DRESS" which was suppossed to be a play on the phrase, "the address of the state," but seeing hat on re-reading I didn't catch it, I knew no one else must have. I didn't mean that title to sound as sexist as it did.

BTW, I have a post in reply to uilleann's last post about his unwillingness to venture into the world, I typed it on my laptop, on the bus, so I don't have on this computer. I plan to post that soon.

That aside... I haven't had a chance to get the information moved, because I was out in the real world. I will still be posting my just words, but a new thought has occured to me and I might be changing my "just words".

Not that I'd ask you too, I do wish I'd stop burdening said problems on you or anyone, and keep them out of these forums. I feel guilty for involving you with this and wasting your time.

So, apologies for it all

...about figuring out why you want a girl...
That is a good question. At the moment, I have no desire for a girl, seeing as I'm quite content sitting here chatting online a bit, listening to music and posting to the forums. However, certain situations cause such a desire to be felt. One of those is physical attraction, which stirs up sexual passion. Another is chatting to a girl online who is pleasant - quite what feelings that generates are hard to disentangle, but I have a weakness for anyone sweet; sex drive has a part to play in that, too. Further, there are lots of situations in which I feel have a desire to share various things with someone special. This can be just my surroundings (a sunset, or just the feel of the air (something I want to share most is the feeling I have as I look out of an upstairs window and onto the street (bearing in mind that I'm in a little village) and see the darkness, and the glow of the street lights - the night looks so beautiful... *counts parentheses*) (and it feels lonely to experience said feelings (which come across as romantic to me) alone (though I can't guarantee that most would ever be anything anyone else experiences, and are thus not truly sharable)), or my projects - I've often wanted someone special to work with on programming projects. Oh, and cuddles. Lots of them.

I think this issue is best addressed along the lines of the general problem of expunging emotions. My mind contains a great many of them, varying on occasion - for example, a lot of sexual frustration, tech frustration (I could have axe-murdered iCab's Filter Manager last night), and unreleased energetic emotion (from trance music). The latter is about all that's there right now.

The latter also comes under my need to deal with something I like. This includes the fact that I can't look at a good drawing I've done and not feel pent up feeling I need to dissipate somehow, or if I see something cute, I feel the same. I can understand sexual frustration on seeing someone attractive, or the energy contained within music, but I also have the aforementioned quirkier forms. This also ties in with frustration, being the negative equivalent.

...and useing that to locate the places to "hunt,"
Well, that depends on just what I'm looking for. I really don't know; I really deal best with logical issues - with my emotions, I'd rather just dismiss them as illogical and pointless, but I think they're too powerful, and I'll never begin to get rid of them. What do I want? This leads back to that continually unanswered question: is it better to have a girlfriend for basic companionship, romance, dates etc. and friends for geeky pursiuts (better question: is that adequate?) or would I only be happy if I was with someone who shared my interests?

Not that I'd know where to look. My life consists of several places: my home (in a village, with probably no girls my age, only little kids), St Albans station where I change buses, and my university (at which I'm working on placement for this year), and while there I'm only ever found at in our office in the Learning Resources Centre basement, or the café outside that, or, of course, at the bus stop. The village is ruled out, however, I guess I could find people somewhere in St Albans city (where? what kind of place could I go to? I could go to a café or pub or something, but I'd just sit there and look like a loner, I'd never have the courage to speak to anyone who came in, and even if I did, I guarantee you my speech would be unintelligible) or the university (same applies to the city) but in either case, I'd have no excuse to talk to anyone, nothing to do involving them, and being useless at small-talk (and considering it pointless), there'd be nothing to do. This does suggest that a geek girl is the only way - I'm too impatient for other people; chatting about the weather and football is totally mind-numbing.

...and since the girl you look for will need to have some common intrests...
"Interests", as in, you consider it to be plural? OK, it's near enough to be that. I'd say they'd be computing (supposedly geeky pursuits, but I'm too lazy to bother now mostly (I really should finish the ASCII text exporter in lili_Pad some time, and other stuff); just MP3s/chatting/forum now), electronic music (trance, house, game (I love the MOD format, .mod, .s3m, .it etc)) and science-fiction (though I do no more than watch Voyager at the moment). Not sure what place a girl would have in that. We'd never like the same tunes (that always happens with anyone), we can't just sit and watch TV, and the chances of finding a girl REALbasic (Mac) programmer is infinitesimal.

...consider keeping your eyes open at the places you do go to and look out for potential geekettes.
I assure you, I'll never find any geekettes around. There are a few girls on my course (computer science degree) but as far as I can tell, they're not geeky, just after the money or something (which is a female trait, allegedly - going into something for the money only, whereas guys do it as a hobby for the fun, hence there being few girl computer hobbyists) and thus would just frustrate me.

Part of the problem is that I don't really live in reality, my sci-fi-based imagination is too good. I don't really know how a girl would fit into my real life, and under the constraints mentioned in earlier posts, except for computing, and that really only means programming - I'm not a gamer and on a 604e Mac, aren't likely to be, esp. after seeing the performance of UT on this thing...

Quite what all that lot means, I don't know. Gave me something to go I guess.

- Uilleann

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I think this issue is best addressed along the lines of the general problem of expunging emotions. My mind contains a great many of them, varying on occasion - for example, a lot of sexual frustration, tech frustration (I could have axe-murdered iCab's Filter Manager last night), and unreleased energetic emotion (from trance music). The latter is about all that's there right now.

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There is this hill, in a park near my house. This is isn't anything great, and most people pass it like it is just raised earth. This hill, I found in elementry school, used to seem like the highest point in the world. I stole a phrase from Radio Flyer, and called my "Wishing Spot," because it was the closet place on earth to the heavens. I used to go there to get away from the world, and while I was there I would talk to the wind, and eventually end up yelling, screaming and crying to it; and, the wind would seem to answer my rants, and grant me wisdom. I would go there at sunset, and watch the sun set over the cross on the curch tower a block or two away. Then, I watch the moon rise and I'd feel a calm that was indescribable. The funny thing is, it is still only there that I can voice my most profound thoughts, and seek the solace that I need to deal with the things that bother me.

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The latter also comes under my need to deal with something I like. This includes the fact that I can't look at a good drawing I've done and not feel pent up feeling I need to dissipate somehow, or if I see something cute, I feel the same. I can understand sexual frustration on seeing someone attractive, or the energy contained within music, but I also have the aforementioned quirkier forms. This also ties in with frustration, being the negative equivalent.

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It sounds like what you need is an outlet, a way to vent, and a place to do it safly (where you won't fear the world rushing in on you), and while that won't give you someone to share it with, at least the extra pent-up energies will be disapated. Granted that exual tenssion is a little different, but I think you know how to handle that.

[C]hatting about the weather and football is totally mind-numbing.
Granted that small talk can be cumbersome, but if you look in the right places, your small talk could be about your drawing or your likes in music. Your appraoch should, of course involve them talking about them... People like to talk about themselves, and at thatpoint of appraoch, you want to know more about them to see if they are what they appear. I often find posing a philisophical works wonders for gauging how intelligent they are, something along the lines of "is there original thought?" Of course working the question in may be a little awkward. Small talk is an art, and if it is the right girl, perhaps an art you could grow to love.

As for common things, if you're in a cafe (I didn't use the accent per our ASCII conversation) your common thing could be what she is reading... "Oh, Also Sprach Zarathustra? Well, you know I am the Ubberman!" ...ok, bad exsample, but you get my point. You should take into consideration this phrase (as we ego centric geeks need to here every so often) "Every man is in someway my better, from that I learn from them. -Emmerson" which means locate one of the things at which she is your better, or at least something she is noteworthy for, and commpliment her on it. "I noticed that you wrote that function faster and tighter than I did, I am very impressed. Perhaps you can tell me where you learned to use the copy function to enter a array into a stream." Again, not the greatest exsample, but you get the idea.

If they wanted the money they could be lawyers or doctors, for some buiried geek reason they chose computers. They may not be geeks, but they do have a GPE that is positive.

GPE(TM Game-Master Inc., 2002) - Geek(ette) Potential Enery. Equations for calculation will published in a formal paper, when I have the will and motivation to do some typing and calculations.

Granted that exual tenssion is a little different, but I think you know how to handle that.
Are you suggesting what it sounds like you are? I don't like that kind of suggestion. Please find something proper and decent to offer, or don't bother.

Granted that small talk can be cumbersome, but if you look in the right places, your small talk could be about your drawing or your likes in music.
I don't really have any interest in anyone unless there is already evidence of them being special, and if I tried to tell them about me, I'd only feel ashamed and guilty for stealing the conversation. I even feel bad for talking about computers with people I've met, despite the fact that they weren't bothered.

I'm just damned selfish, but I do have a sweet side, it is there. I do, though, love fixing computers for people, that is the only lead-in I can think of. But then, if the girl was worthy, she'd bloody well fix it herself. OK OK...it is nice to be able to discuss problems with someone, but then, there is a side of my life you don't see here...um, never mind.

Small talk is an art, and if it is the right girl, perhaps an art you could grow to love.
I realised on the bus in this morning that I had criticised a bit too harshly last night. It does have uses, in that it allows you to find out more about a person. However, it does that in a poor way; if conversation remains on it for more than a short period, it grows stale and strained. I've chatted with enough people in the past to find it most irritating - I don't care about them, and I don't want to tell them about me (or, if I do, I only hate myself for doing so).

Granted, I've hardly met anyone "compatible" (of either sex) (and their interest is probably just as worthless as mine, granted it might be real, but still not of any intended consequence), and even with other computer geeks (I guess Steve is one), I'm too weird to enable things to work out, with conversations going all too often to things along the lines of what you see now, and chats over AIM (while he is down in Hampshire) tending to be mostly me being pissed off because I see his (alleged) humour as continual attacks on me (from reading emotionless comments the wrong way, not that I can take that kind of humour even IRL, I just assume I'm under attack).

There are lots of reasons I don't fit in or feel I do. I feel both contempt for lesser folk (like those on my course who shouldn't bloody be there, like those who've never touched a computer in their life before but have a presumption to take on an honours degree course in computer science), but also unworthiness and shame around real geeks who can do the stuff I only pretend I can by using fancy words (though I'm by no means incompetent - it isn't that I'm incapable, I've just never tried).

Being a Mac user, and someone who's only ever used out-of-date equipment, issues are introduced there. I feel a fondness for old stuff (and hence my recognition of the worth of hardware that is old but still fully capable), but also a distinct fear of the rushed and frenzied life of those who try to keep up with the times, of learning new things, and changing rapidly. Also, being a Mac user, I feel left out of the "real" computing world, which seems to be nothing but PC gamers. OK, "real" geeks are supposed to use Linux, but I'm at the disadvantage that in order to learn that, I need to run it as my main OS, so I can get on with my normal online life in the process (that is, whenever I'm on my Mac but offline, I feel isolated and cut off; granted, though, the occasions when I can, indeed, just settle down on something computing-related and enjoy that, are nice). However, YDL with a 2.4.x Kernel and XFree86 3 running either KDE 2 or GNOME something-or-other is just far too slow on my 604e. It had severe thrashing problems with 64 Mb RAM, and I expected my upgrade to 144 Mb would cure it, but slow video hardware and a slow desktop/window manager makes it still too unusable. Sure, I could downgrade to KDE 1 or something, or sort stuff out, but I'd first need to learn Linux, which I won't if I need to reboot into Mac OS just to be able to type at a normal speed. I also can't access my 23.6 Gb HFS+ partition, on which all my MP3s are kept. Nor do I want to relearn everything I already know how to do (edit in BBEdit (never seen a worthwhile Linux equivalent), do artwork in Photoshop (the GIMP was just a confusing menace) and so on), and I also don't feel up to porting Linux apps to the Mac (downloading support libraries or whatever (e.g. for XMMS), and dealing with altering code for endianness issues).

All that to replace an already sufficient and mostly stable OS, just to feel like a real geek? Linux is not homely enough to use it long enough to learn how to make it homely and usable.

Thus, I've not in any recent years tried to locate or join a computer club. A 200 MHz 604e Mac user isn't exactly something I'd feel would fit in well there (although I have progressed as far as running the seemingly dead attempt to port Winamp to the Mac, a very limited, but nevertheless stable, port - it felt bad enough just not running Winamp like everyone else). Not that there'd be any geek girls there anyhow, just lots of l337 PC gamers with their Nvidia (use the) GeForce 2billionMX AMD 10GHz whatever the hell they've got up to now.

I often find posing a philisophical works wonders for gauging how intelligent they are...
That does take account the assumption that you yourself are up to it, and enjoy it. "Gauging intelligence" might just land me out of my depth and make me look a fool - chats with Steve over AIM on the worst matter of all (religion) never go well whatsoever. Reading up on the philosophical debate at hand would at least give my arguments extra credibility (maybe, who says anyone else is right?), but I suspect I'd find such books boring. Either way, I'm too lazy (and scared of effort, or whatever) to find out, or do anything else for that matter.

As for common things, if you're in a cafe (I didn't use the accent per our ASCII conversation) your common thing could be what she is reading...
First off, I used the &eacute; HTML entity to be safe. Secondly, I have not been around in regular cafés for years, but at university, no-one sits and reads for fun; the best I've seen is reading of course books. Girls (and guys) also very much tend to be in groups, into which I don't want to intrude.

Either way, as I've said before, my speech just isn't up to it, and I may just as well go up and speak Martian, you'd never be able to tell the difference.

...locate one of the things at which she is your better, or at least something she is noteworthy for, and commpliment her on it.
That makes the distinct assumption that this is not a small-talk situation. I don't forsee a conversation ever going along those lines, as I'd never be in that kind of conversation; the nearest I've been in was when I was a student helper in my second year (and the guy everyone wanted to debug stuff) - I wasn't impressed by what I saw, though - no girl coding geniuses, just people who couldn't get their head around anything (even OOD (with its clear real-world parallels) and EDP (oh come on, the basic principles of VB and Delphi are a doddle, just lay out and pop code in)).

Plus, compliments from me are a rarity (I'm of the bug-reporting mentality, someone has to do it) but if she did receive one (don't ask, I'm generally too self-conscious to say a lot of things, I tend to feel I need to repress my feelings publicly) she would indeed be someone special (otherwise, I'd be finding issues that need addressing as well as the good; most people don't get everything right).

"I noticed that you wrote that function faster and tighter than I did, I am very impressed.
Female programmers? Hah, you wish (as do I). And finding one who does it as a hobby and not just as a job for the money and has no interest in it otherwise? As if. Oh, sure they exist, somewhere (Canada for a start) but the temperature in Hell would drop a further few degrees if I found any. Steve tells me they exist where he works (IBM Hursley) down in Hampshire, not that I'll be going there.

There we go, little chunk of the working day wasted with that. I think some of the real problems are actually implicit not explicit, and again I don't see anyone 4-5000 miles away being of any help. Someone over here, I could go with to these magical places, and could provide real incentives. These, as I say, "just words" on the forum won't push me far enough, and won't provide the companionship for any outings.

On the real matters; yeah, I know talking about this particualr subject bares little fruit, but I hope it does more than provide finger work outs.

As for female programers, you are right, there aren't a lot of real geek girls in the comp-sci department at many of the US universities. There are a lot of people who have not the intrest in computers, just in the money, but we must never forget about the GPE factor (TM as mentioned earlier). The gal I've got my eyes on aced the class we had together (C++ II, which covered inheritence, run time polymorphisim, run time memory manipulations, the STL and time complexity (which reminds me that I have to check a rant on another site to see if I got a responce)). But, that too, is only a minor thing that I noticed.

Linux isn't that hard to run, and while the apps are a bit behind (as they are developed in programers free time without the motivation of money) there are a lot of intresting thing. GIMP (on any platform) is a great tool, and I almost prefer it to photoshop (on a mac)... I am sure that you can find prexsisting ports for the mac if you really want to learn linux and stick it on your mac.... but I agree that it doesn't make much sence. Then again, the way to go would be to run OS X, if you can, and use the counsole whenever possible.

I'd like to ask, if it isn't to forward, why are you so hard on yourself? It seems like you have this profound want for knowledge, because you hate not knowing soething (everything), but you fear knowing because knowing would lead to 1000 other things that you don't know. The more man knows, the more man knows he doesn't know, and you want to scale an unsermountable wall, but realize that scale is too big. At least that is what I read, perhaps it is also attached to a fear of failure, if you don't try you are garunteed not to fail at the attempt. Hmmmm... I feel like freud, and I hate psychology. It also seems like the more you fail, the less you feel motivated to try, but the more you sucseed, you only don't backslide furthure. So I guess the question is, what is it that you failed at that brusied your ego so badly? Perhaps that is were your real solution lies.

So says I. (new tag provided by Zorro. Zorro, the maker of rude comments since he turned up on the page.)

I only mentioned that you know how to deal with your sexual frustrations... (I do? Why did you assume that? In fact, I don't) ...because I really didn't want to touch that one. It was a cop out, and what you assumed I was talking about isn't a bad thing (unless it is against your dogma).
I am to assume my guess was correct? Actually, I did think a short while ago today that it could have just meant a cold shower, but that is a tad inconvenient if I'm trying to do work, or aren't within transporter range of bathroom facilities. I also react badly to cold water (guess I should have swum in the sea as a kid ;)

On the real matters; yeah, I know talking about this particular subject bares little fruit, but I hope it does more than provide finger work outs.
I've been over a lot of it before, time and time again, never did any good, just wasted others' time and pissed Steve off. I need something more productive to do.

No Mac OS X for me, just classic, and REALbasic - just wish I had something nice to write, with a userbase to cater for, so that the project won't die as soon as the basic program suits my needs and is too much trouble to work on to improve it. What is left to make, though? (And within REALbasic's feeble limitations)

but we must never forget about the GPE factor (TM as mentioned earlier).
The what? I remember gravitational potential energy (for if I picked a geek up), but geek potential energy, is what?

The gal I've got my eyes on aced the class we had together...
Whew... if she is as geeky as she is capable...man... good luck with that!

But, that too, is only a minor thing that I noticed.
Pardon?

Linux isn't that hard to run
Run, no. Perform minor surgery on, yes (but then, so is Windows, fugging mess). UNIX shell commands and operations are indeed fun, though.

...if you really want to learn linux and stick it on your mac.... but I agree that it doesn't make much sence. Then again, the way to go would be to run OS X, if you can
Linux already is on my Mac, dual booting alongside Mac OS 9.1. But OS X is out of the question with my current set-up.

I'd like to ask, if it isn't to forward, why are you so hard on yourself? It seems like you have this profound want for knowledge... (yes, I've always been that way, but laziness etc. has overcome much of that now) ...because you hate not knowing soething (everything), but you fear knowing because knowing would lead to 1000 other things that you don't know.
Fear of effort involved in finding out, and of the effort and complication, complexity and seeming rush life of people who know and do the things that interest me. Or something.

Once, I was too scared to go catch a bus, and what that seemingly involved. At some point, I just had to, and now its second nature. With all things, I think lack of knowledge and experience leads to misperceived ideas about what things are like. I just need to gain the proof that things aren't so bad. Not to say that I don't sometimes have difficulty trying to give my destination, but my speech suffers not only from nerves, but from lack of sleep on which I afflict myself.

perhaps it is also attached to a fear of failure
There is that, too. And fear of looking stupid when I do, from a lack of trust of the supportiveness of others, but at the same time, a knowledge that I'll feel just as stupid whether others are nice or not. (I even hate over-niceness, it's so icky...ugh, please, keep it away. True beautiful and genuine sweetness is lovely, though)

So I guess the question is, what is it that you failed at that brusied your ego so badly? Perhaps that is were your real solution lies.
Nothing quite like that, seeing as I think I'm just very self-conscious by nature. The following got, it seems, off track, but I'll leave it in anyhow.

I think that, over time, having people know what I like and feel gradually worsened everything. When I was little, 6 or 8 or something, my dad gave me a record player (he's a low-tech guy) and I was too afraid to be seen using it (I did, maybe once). I got a few tape players a year or more later, for cassette software for my BBC Microcomputer, and at some point asked my dad for a tape of all my favourite tunes of his (a motley collection, some of which I still like), yet, I never played it. A while later, I got him to record Mike Oldfield - Ommadawn (about half an hour, in two parts, for those who don't know it) onto cassette (I still like that), and I used to play it every day when I got home from school.

I recall one of my sister's friends and her coming to see me to have me make a poster for their garage sale on my computer, and I promptly stopped the tape, not wanting it to be playing.

Finally, one day, I did at last play the first tape. I was listening to it when my dad came upstairs, and made a friendly comment about approving of my choice of music. I was mortified, and that marked the end of any music. No more, for many a year.

I eventually got as far as listening to game music on the PC, and assuming people would think I was playing games, even bashing the keys sometimes if anyone walked by, to make it sound game-like. Now, I just listen to music with earphones.

My family has assumed for years that I simply don't like music at all. My sister now knows I like music, as I think do my parents. At least, they've just walked into my room when I've had the earphones in (the "Please knock and wait" sign that I've had on my door for years meaning little to them now (they used to just walk in whenever they felt like it, fortunately never when I was getting (un)dressed)).

Now, of course, the fact that I like electronic music, trance in particular, makes me feel bad, because it doesn't seem to be what most people here on the forums seem to like, and I just feel that it's not "proper" music, and is unworthy. What really got me was when I looked at the homepage of Gigabyte, the virus writer, and found she likes...trance, techno and house. Ouch... I'm in with the virus writers now... as a consolation, dragonman97 likes trance, and he seems a really decent bloke, so can like trance without having to be drug-addicted low life.

Also, being teased by my dad about girl-oriented feelings made me too afraid to be able to discuss them in future, and I just kept them to myself, which was probably not healthy.

Where in hell's name we are now, I don't know, at the end of some long ramble. OK, OK, enough of this; don't even know if it makes sense. Grr.

(Zorro, the maker of rude comments since he turned up on the page.)
Aww, I like Zorro; I can take funny comments, its SpikeSpiegel who's been really annoying me, but it seems that even he is only being funny, and not actually nasty. I find it hard to tell, personal limitation.

What exsactly is Trance? I am a little out of what is popular in music, because I am a violinist and composer... thus I am too busy trying to catch up with dead guys to worry about who is writting now. I do listen to anything I can get my hands on, with few exceptions, and am always intrested in finding new music to absorb.

The whole sign on your door thing is sweet, when I was growing up, my mother had an "open door policy" (as in all doors were always open), and had to know what we were up to all the time (changing and stuff excluded). Finally, when I reached my teens I started keeping my door closed, but she still barges in with out a responce (although she does knock before bardgig in -- realizing I need a place of my own). That is what drove me to the hill to get away from everything.

It seems that you might have a form of goraphobia...
I'm certainly not claustrophobic - I prefer little corners and small spaces, which feel isolated and secure. And cosy, but while they are sharable, they're not shared.

The comment about minnor point wasn't about how smart my inpronouncablly named crush is, but about the fact that geekettes do exsist in small quanities outside of canada.
*cha-ching* I get you now. Yes, oh, they exist in many places, but their density within the population is more of the problem.

What exsactly is Trance?
Electronic dance music, with a pretty regular beat, supposedly hypnotic (hence the name) but I never go that far. Try tracks 1, 2, 4 and 5 from this page for a little selection (track 3 is allegedly tek-house, if you listen, you'll hear a distinct irregularity about the rhythm esp. compared to the others). If you like those, I'll direct you to another I really like, oh, and there are loads more to be had, just ask dragonman97 :) (FYI, Sarah aka version_lili happens to be someone that I do like, but is now at 5400 miles distant, and never liked me in that way.)

I do listen to anything I can get my hands on...
Oh well, there you go. Sarah is no longer around online, so that page is just storage space. Maybe I should upload some other odd stuff there.

The whole sign on your door thing is sweet...
Sweet...? Heh... odd take on it. Actually, my door was always left ajar, just so that I wasn't ever out of reach (as opposed to my sister who kept hers closed and never knew what was going on). I think my parents saw that as an invitation to just walk in, hence the sign.

Finally, when I reached my teens I started keeping my door closed, but she still barges in with out a responce (although she does knock before bardgig in...)
Yeah, I know that one... knock and walk in anyhow. Grr. I mean, this is Britain, where old traditions are still supposed to exist.

<rant>Oh, that reminds me. In the first year when being taught data structures, we got taught the principles of queues and stacks, which got laboured for bloody ages (a lecture was even repeated). I mean, queing is still prevalant in Britain, and everone knows what a stack is, for goodness' sake, why on Earth would they be so hard to understand? I think by that point I already knew the circular pointer concept for queues anyhow.</rant> Sorry, I got most peeved over that.

Anyhow, that's all for this episode. À demain.

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Originally posted by uilleann:
I've often wanted someone special to work with on programming projects. Oh, and cuddles. Lots of them.

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Yes... and back massages you really wouldn't think it would be so difficult to find someone to exchange back massages with.. really...

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Originally posted by uilleann:
Not that I'd know where to look. <snip> I could go to a caf� or pub or something, but I'd just sit there and look like a loner, I'd never have the courage to speak to anyone who came in, and even if I did, I guarantee you my speech would be unintelligible) or the university (same applies to the city) but in either case, I'd have no excuse to talk to anyone, nothing to do involving them, and being useless at small-talk (and considering it pointless), there'd be nothing to do. This does suggest that a geek girl is the only way - I'm too impatient for other people; chatting about the weather and football is totally mind-numbing.

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I don't think you are alone in the not knowing where to look problem. I've been out of college for a year now, and I miss how friendly people are in dorms. I could go to a bar, but i absolutely hate coming out smelling like cigarettes (blech), and I don't really enjoy drinking, so I don't know if I'd have any luck meeting someone I would really connect with in a bar or club, which seems to be where people go at my age, (i dont' get the appeal of drunkenness, sorry). I'm also not real good at smalltalk, especially when it involves sports i watch the superbowl for commercials dammit My next plan of attack is to go to a cafe with my ibook and the learning cocoa book and see if anyone takes the bait (yes I know girls can make the first move too, but quite frankly, I'm sick of making the first move, it would be nice to have someone else do it for a change)

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Originally posted by uilleann:

"Interests", as in, you consider it to be plural? OK, it's near enough to be that. I'd say they'd be computing (supposedly geeky pursuits, but I'm too lazy to bother now mostly (I really should finish the ASCII text exporter in lili_Pad some time, and other stuff); just MP3s/chatting/forum now), electronic music (trance, house, game (I love the MOD format, .mod, .s3m, .it etc)) and science-fiction (though I do no more than watch Voyager at the moment). Not sure what place a girl would have in that. We'd never like the same tunes (that always happens with anyone), we can't just sit and watch TV, and the chances of finding a girl REALbasic (Mac) programmer is infinitesimal.

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computers are fun, I currently am running a beige g3/300 desktop, a 500 mhz ibook (both runnign OS X), a 9600/200 which will get mandrake on it one of these days, a 7100 that i need to strip for parts and an ancient lc 475 which hasn't been turned on in a while. I have too much hardware at the moment, i don't have anywhere for it to go, I love trance/techno/electronica, I also really like Delerium, which i find kinda difficult to categorize, but i think of it as kind of electronica, its great for coding, keeps me from singing along and making people at work look at me funny , but overall good background music to keep the part of my brain that isn't being used for coding from getting bored and taking over (yes this happens, I'll suddenly realize i don't know what i was doing for the last 15 minutes.. happened alot in classes) I was raised on star trek, and tend to enjoy sci fi in general, I dont' know real basic, but i've heard its nifty and would like to try it eventually.
Sounds like both of us have been having problems finding people to connect with, but I tend to think the problem is that most of the people who fit the criteria are probably in their rooms at their computers posting on forums about how they can't meet anyone, (not that I can talk, thats what I'm doing ... oh well, I keep trying the bar thing, but i dont' really want to go alone, and it seems as though i am the only single female at work, or at the very least whenever I go out with coworkers I end up being an odd numbered wheel of your choice. This is partially caused by the complete lack of understanding i have for people who go out to get drunk. I just don't get it... and my lack of understanding leads to lack of respect (especially for the ones who dont' make sure there are designated drivers) which makes it very difficult for me to be comfortable with them, but oh well, what can ya do...

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I assure you, I'll never find any geekettes around. There are a few girls on my course (computer science degree) but as far as I can tell, they're not geeky, just after the money or something (which is a female trait, allegedly - going into something for the money only, whereas guys do it as a hobby for the fun, hence there being few girl computer hobbyists) and thus would just frustrate me.

Part of the problem is that I don't really live in reality, my sci-fi-based imagination is too good. I don't really know how a girl would fit into my real life, and under the constraints mentioned in earlier posts, except for computing, and that really only means programming - I'm not a gamer and on a 604e Mac, aren't likely to be, esp. after seeing the performance of UT on this thing...

Quite what all that lot means, I don't know. Gave me something to go I guess.

- Uilleann

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I really think you underestimate the existance of people you could be compatible with, at least i hope you do, because if you don't, we're both screwed I'd be thrilled to find a boyfriend, but I'd be almost as thrilled to find friends I really connected with who lived less than 5 hours away... but i really can't say i've had much luck with either in the last year. Well here's to hoping our luck changes...

OK, maybe not; if anything, I've not completed my degree course here yet.

Finding someone out there who doesn't like getting drunk regularly (or even at all, for that matter) does seem difficult, although two people I mentioned this to on the IRC channel also stay good. Not only do I not like the idea of losing control over my mind, but I really don't like the idea that people feel unable to function in a social environment without altering their mind with alcohol, nor do I like the idea of social environments which (supposedly) make this a necessity. Besides which, I really don't want a hangover, either - 21 years hangover-free thus far. As for smoking, see the bottom post of this thread (that is, until someone else posts there).

Now, back massages... I don't get all this massage business, guess it's something that needs to be experienced to understand... =)

Delerium are a weird bunch; there are a number of groups made from the same pool of people, of which Delerium is one. I'm not really keen on most of their styles, but the two Conjure One tracks up on delerium.com (Sleep (MIA) and Redemption) are both nice. It's also interesting to compare Max Graham's Dead Sea Mix of Redemption (that I had first) to the original. Redemption (the original) is up on this page; I can post the remix on my MP3s page.

Oh, and by electronica there you refer to the strange stuff that doesn't fit trance or any other large genre? Hrm, Oxygen... :)

As for REALbasic, well, if it reached its potential, it really would be amazing, but alas, no. I made an extension (appe) and control panel (not yet compiled) last night, to play a sound just as the Finder and appe load process completes (like in Windows). However, the REALbasic framework code is about a meg, so the two apps togther will be 2 Mb of code, just for a freakin' tiny little facility. I'd look such a damn fool posting that on my website ;) Nah, REALbasic falls far short of what it could be, and knowing Delphi users will just rub it in more. We Mac users deserve something so much better.

~me feeling old because its 11:00 and I'm getting tired... hoping I'm making some sort of sense with incoherent sleepy typing...
No, you make perfect sense throughout. And it does indeed seem we are in similar boats, although yours is futher along its voyage. "but I tend to think the problem is that most of the people who fit the criteria are probably in their rooms at their computers posting on forums about how they can't meet anyone" made me smile - yes, there is always that problem.

Allegedly, someone in Australia's now managed to transport something. It's sure to only be a photon or something, and I still don't believe that transporters are even possible, but we can continue hoping; it would make LDRs so much more feasible. Actually, assuming you are anywhere near Hartford, you're only about 3378 miles from me, a lot closer than some.

I really think you underestimate the existance of people you could be compatible with, at least i hope you do, because if you don't, we're both screwed :)
Well, that is something that experience will tell, and not guesswork. Thus, I really have no idea right now.

Well, a belated night night to you, and many thanks for that encouraging post.

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Originally posted by uilleann:
Quoting GameMaster:
[b]I guess rude wasn't the right word for zorro, perhaps off kilter or preverted beyond repair (that is if preverssion is truely a bad thing).
I'm maybe odd when it comes to that kind of thing. I hate common things like make-up, low-cut dresses, high-heels, yet when it comes to people, like Zorro, I'm happy to tolerate Him. I'm not actually keen on BDSM or anything like that, but then, that's Him life and He and everyone else involved seems to enjoy it, so I just separate Him from His life. For however perverse His interests appear, He seems a genuinely nice and trustworthy guy (was, He'll kill me for saying that ;-) and that's what I focus on.

- Uilleann[/B]

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ok, I admit it, I can be nice. trustworthy depends on what it is I am being trusted with. I am fiercely loyal though, I guess that could count as nice. I'll consider it a compliment today >;o) .....Z

Now, I'm not sure whether you really are as bad as you're claiming, or whether you're just putting yourself down to keep your image, or from modesty. As for trustworthiness, I was just referring to being safe to accept a lift from, or to have take care of something in life for - you'd not steal from my house or mug me or anything. But then, being loyal, I think that would be covered.

*sigh*

I'll leave this off... it's getting more than my mind can take in unspoken reasons, and into unsafe territory where I do not wish to voyage.

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Originally posted by dragonman97:
Well, fellow dragon, I believe I am probably under 5 hours away...

My work area is Purchase, NY (10577). Based on SW CT, I'd guess ~2 hrs. I can think of nothing further to say in this comment.

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point dragonman as it is fast approaching my bedtime, I cannot think of anything else to say in my response to your comment, so i might as well throw in random scott adams quote that my friend sent me over IM earlier, i got one of his books on tape once, and lent it to a friend, and he said he started laughing os hard he had to pull over.. (they should put warning labels on those things )