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Ask a Geek! Official topic for the new Geekcode (Page 2)
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Author | Topic: Official topic for the new Geekcode |
uilleann Highlie Posts: 661 |
posted June 24, 2002 05:48
Sorry, I quoted instead of edit when I made a correction to my BNF. And now, yippee, I can't delete this. IP: Logged |
ilovemydualg4 Highlie Posts: 569 |
posted June 24, 2002 05:49
quote: ok, i'll do that, i won't be able to do today, as i just learend i'm going out to apple store near us today (near is relative-it's an hour and a half away), and we're having lunch at the cpk there, but i'll try to take it in the car with me and work on it from there ------------------ IP: Logged |
uilleann Highlie Posts: 661 |
posted June 24, 2002 05:54
Quotingilovemydualg4: because then we might as well say "Hi, I like macs and I am really good with them and I hate windows[/QUOTE] Well, why can't we? I know programming languages are terse and formalised for precision and ease of understanding by compilers, but who writes anything like that when it is only for human reading? Imagine a software set-up guide written like that, and so on. This is why I still wonder what this is about? OK, so a Geek Code lets you describe your abilities with cutesy precise numbers, but I for one can't rate myself like that (both from the modesty/arrogance/comparison to all others conflict, plus a scale of 1-10 being too hard to rate the aformentioned imprecise opinion on). OK, I concede that I'd not be able to rate myself in words either, but still. But, I'll humour the project anyhow ;) - uilleann IP: Logged |
ilovemydualg4 Highlie Posts: 569 |
posted June 24, 2002 05:57
thanks uillean, btw, do you have this page on subscibtion, or do you just frantically check back every two minutes? i just have it email me, but you can't hahaha IP: Logged |
uilleann Highlie Posts: 661 |
posted June 24, 2002 05:59
Um... I'm just hanging around it right now :) Heh, this is almost as good as AIM =) - uilleann IP: Logged |
ilovemydualg4 Highlie Posts: 569 |
posted June 24, 2002 06:01
lol, ok, i'm gonna be heading out now, but i'll post a rev hopefully from the apple store's airport (i figured out how to get in on opening day, and if not, i'll do it from one of their comps) ------------------ IP: Logged |
uilleann Highlie Posts: 661 |
posted June 24, 2002 06:02
Cya then *waves* IP: Logged |
GameMaster Highlie Posts: 604 |
posted June 24, 2002 06:25
The purpose for the geekcode is to give a bunch of information about yourself in a short amount of space that can be easly taged onto a larger body of text... The idea is so that you don't have to write out at the bottom of all e-mails: I am a profcient coder in: C, C++, ... I like to watch: star trek, Baboon 5 (heh) ... I have intrests in Roleplaying, stradegy gaming, shoot 'em ups, flight simulators ... I go through books about politics, coding, ect ect at a unexerable rate and blah blah blah.... Which starts to sound like a form letter, personal ad and/or shortest autobiography in the history of man. I think that add-ons are a way to get people into the spirit of the thing, and if they contribute to making an add-on, they'll tell their friend's friend's friend and their mother about it... Which means the code spreads which means the code site gets more visiters which gets the GC more visiters (who all buy T-shirt and Snaggy retires early). So, uh, what's in it for me for arguing to keep add-ons? I see what you were saying about the misplaces catagories, haven't looked back at the site to see if it has changed, because I am working on a speical project that seemed undoable untill I found a new toy to play with. Hey, that reminds me, U, how much JAVA do you know, and what do you know about the world of non-profit arts groups?*evil grin* If you need me, I'll be in a cave somewhere working on this project and/or playing with ASM. ------------------ IP: Logged |
ilovemydualg4 Highlie Posts: 569 |
posted June 24, 2002 06:34
quote: I guess we can leave the topic of add-ons to be for a while, and keep it open for debate,,,, i just signed on with my cell phone, testing connection , if i can get on again in a few hours, then you should be able to see version .8b, and if not, then you can haul out to the westfarms mall, and look for me, and i may consider showign it to you ------------------ IP: Logged |
ilovemydualg4 Highlie Posts: 569 |
posted June 24, 2002 12:21
i think this encompasses everything everyone was looking for, except for politics, which will come in next rev. http://homepage.mac.com/ilovemydualg4/gcc/gcc2.html ------------------ IP: Logged |
uilleann Highlie Posts: 661 |
posted June 24, 2002 13:56
Quoting GameMaster: The purpose for the geekcode is to give a bunch of information about yourself in a short amount of space... Yes, I did get that idea, but then, a) it can end up damned near illegible, and b) given that we'd all be linking to web pages anyhow, it seems of less use as we can use the page for a nice discourse. The original Geek Code was actually pretty short, allowing it to fit in tight spaces, but this one is probably going to get pretty big. You know that finding a mate is something I like the sound of a lot, and really I don't think the code would ever begin to explain the peculiar invidual that is me (nor do I hold out that much hope of finding a geek girl who would care about much of the stuff that my code would allude to). Even so, my own site's About page only goes as far as allusions as to who I am (I talk in hints and subtle allusions); the Carpe Geekium is probably the only public place where much more of the real me is known [note: I assume you gave up on me there? ;-)] Even so, under the premise that the GCC is good, which for the most part I am following, I'm still happy to help with it. I am simply not a blind follower, I want to be certain that what is going on is correct and valid. I am a little concerned about the implementation. I'm not seeing any arguments in favour of my ideas (and thus feel bad when they are used, as if ilovemydualg4 is doing it from the overpowering force of my will, and not from reasoned decisions, which makes me feel guilty), nor are there arguments against them for those ideas not used (where was I wrong?). I just wonder. A good example is the sudden and unexpected removal of the ? and ! modifiers (*thinks back to BBC BASIC, ahhh*) - I did not suggest they be removed; I was actually more hinting at a use for them. Knowing my tendency to talk in hints and allusions, being able to mysteriously refuse an answer with an ! would make people wonder what I have to hide, and a ? would be good for Nayt to use... (apologies to Nayt ;-). Instead, they just vanished without reason. Pity, I rather liked them. Same for area of specialisation. Looks like ilovemydualg4 looked at your post, got <insert emotion here> and just killed it. It sounded really useful to me, and definitely distinct from extreme as you were questioning. It also seems a pity that it is just us three... even though the rest of geekdom might be averse to the code, I would have expected to see Hikaru at least, given that he made a geek code of his own. Where are all the other opinions? The willing followers to our scheme? All the ideas and suggestions from non-computer geeks to help the skills, hobbies and professions part of the code expand beyond just computer geekiness which is what we're seeing now? Regarding my criticisms above (parts a and b etc), I'm not trying to crush the code, but rather seek reasoned arguments in favour of the code, and against me, and get this settled, so I know that people do indeed know where they are going and why, and are not just doing this blind. Prove me wrong, and I'll be content; if not, I'll remain feel guilty for thinking I've ruined it all :) Hey, that reminds me, U, how much JAVA do you know, and what do you know about the world of non-profit arts groups?*evil grin* In principle (isolating the geek part of the brain from the personality fundamentals part), I'd probably love to code in Java again, but there are a few limitations: a) fear (of effort, and of the mad panic of being caught up in some project which would rush beyond my control like being washed away in a fierce storm at sea) and laziness. I can't even be bothered to update my website, or my existing software projects... We'll see, we'll see.</mode> - uilleann [whose name grows ever shorter][though 'U' must be the limit to that...prove me wrong...] IP: Logged |
ilovemydualg4 Highlie Posts: 569 |
posted June 24, 2002 14:09
well, i did think that everyone was looking to keep things as simple as possible, which is why I took out those two things, but if it is felt to be a very good thing, then they can go back in. hits for this page (not counitng multiple hits from one system ina row) ------------------ IP: Logged |
uilleann Highlie Posts: 661 |
posted June 24, 2002 14:21
Hrm... after looking at the code more, I have these added comments (in order) based directly on the current implementation as shown in gcc2.html:
- uilleann IP: Logged |
ilovemydualg4 Highlie Posts: 569 |
posted June 24, 2002 14:29
quote: so do you want to have the first description thing? ------------------ IP: Logged |
uilleann Highlie Posts: 661 |
posted June 25, 2002 03:09
*doesn't feel like playing guessing games* Do I want to have the what? IP: Logged |
GameMaster Highlie Posts: 604 |
posted June 25, 2002 13:29
I haven't given up, I've just got a bit more on plate now, so getting the time to write a post of that length is a bit harder. You may have noticed that the Ask Zorro page doesn't have the same long lists of odd questions from me.... I will post perhaps on thursday everything I've been meaning to. Relationship: Perhaps a scale bellow 5 but not 0 would be looking, 5 to 10 would be attached and the number would be level of commitment? ------------------ IP: Logged |
GameMaster Highlie Posts: 604 |
posted June 25, 2002 22:17
Ah, I forgot I had posted that reference to my project... I am currently working on (well in the design stages of) a ticketing software pakage... I have several reasons for picking JAVA and the largest is I have never written anything big in it before. As for shorting your name, not mentioning it seems to be even smaller, but would be confusing in a larger threads. ------------------ IP: Logged |
uilleann Highlie Posts: 661 |
posted June 26, 2002 03:36
Comments! There are no comments in the code format ;) /* */ or something. { } would be best (à la Pascal) but they're kinda taken... Just kidding though, sort of. Wait, am I? Anyhow, my vociferocity will be on stand-by pending ilovemydualg4's next set of changes. Peace reigns in the topic... - uilleann PS geekculture.tk? WTF is .tk? Island of Tokelau apparently (cannabis addicts' haven?) - well, I see they do have free domain redirection... personally, I'm just fed up with the totally useless set of TLDs, and all the TLD abuse I see, and .tk makes no sense whatsoever... do we live in .tk? Someone, please, rip out and tear down all TLDs and build something consistent and useful (and take into account those with personal homepage domains, something that probably never entered into anyone's thoughts when TLDs were devised. .info? Eww..please, does my site sound like an information office?). Oh, and standardise it across the world. For example, a British university is *.ac.uk, a US university *.edu, and a German one, uni-*.de. Wow, how's that for consistency, huh? Grr...bloody fugging mess. </rant> Sorry :) OK, back to that reigning peace.... quiet.... calm.... IP: Logged |
ilovemydualg4 Highlie Posts: 569 |
posted June 26, 2002 04:31
well, I meant the ! and ? should they be there? Things will be going a bit slow here for a while, as I just picked up and moved to martha's vineyard, as I have a job sailing here (and 56k, the cable lines down my road are from the 50's), and that is pretty long. Expect next revision online tommorow evening ------------------ IP: Logged |
uilleann Highlie Posts: 661 |
posted June 26, 2002 08:10
ilovemydualg4:well, I meant the ! and ? should they be there? Well, what do you think? How about GameMaster? Or anyone else? Despite my strong feelings on this and many other matters, it doesn't necessarily make me right. Maybe you can see flaws in my reasoning, or if there are just opposing but valid views, the answer is in what people overall want, or in anyone who. I just want to see some thinking here. As soon as there was any hint that there was a problem with those modifiers, you ripped them out. Why? You put them there in the first place, so surely you had a reason? Isn't that reason worth sticking to, or defending? Personally, I like the mystery that surrounds using ! to refuse to answer, and there maybe people who'd want to use ? to indicate that they don't know but should. I'm honestly not sure, though, depends what anyone else wants. - uilleann IP: Logged |
uilleann Highlie Posts: 661 |
posted June 26, 2002 14:25
Quoting GameMaster: I am currently working on ... a ticketing software pakage That would be what, pray tell? Ticket sales? And for whom are you making this? And does it stand to make you a tidy prophet? :P I have several reasons for picking JAVA and the largest is I have never written anything big in it before. As for shorting your name... Why don't I go with a nice nick, like Tom or something? :P - [Uu](i(l(l(ean(n)))) IP: Logged |
ilovemydualg4 Highlie Posts: 569 |
posted June 27, 2002 03:55
i'm looking at top page... 32 different views..... some people aren't posting...... ------------------ IP: Logged |
GameMaster Highlie Posts: 604 |
posted June 27, 2002 13:29
[Uu](i(l(l(ean(n)))), That which we call a programer by any other name does not change his code... er.. something like that. [b]That would be what, pray tell? Ticket sales? And for whom are you making this? And does it stand to make you a tidy prophet? :P[\b] [b]So you've chosen to use Java just to get some experience in it? And what might be the other reasons? (Hehe, uh oh, this topic really looks about to split now ;-)[\b] ---------------- So, says I. ------------------ IP: Logged |
uilleann Highlie Posts: 661 |
posted June 27, 2002 18:08
Quoting GameMaster: That which we call a programer by any other name does not change his code... Given I have at least three Internet alii, if it did, my code would be a terrible mess. Maybe it is already? ;) Yep, for ticket sales (group and indivudual), inventory, goal setting, ... Coments? U, have you lost your mind? OOOpppss, sorry Tom... :P Actually, I knew it was a very dubious idea, but also nice in that it would let people add odd remarks to the code when they want to embellish the selector a bit. But sure, just me being frivolous here :) I don't have a problem with "!" but the "?" seems needless - 05F4-26CE-9003A640 IP: Logged |
ilovemydualg4 Highlie Posts: 569 |
posted July 01, 2002 03:30
ok, I'm terribly sorry about not posting up new version-my new job just started, once i get into the 'groove' it will be partime weekdays, but for the last week, I had to get everything set up (see asok the intern), as i was the new employee. anyways.... ------------------ IP: Logged |
uilleann Highlie Posts: 661 |
posted July 01, 2002 07:00
! to stay, ? to go, geek type to be added, aye Politics? Um... oh, alright... ;) aye - uilleann IP: Logged |
ilovemydualg4 Highlie Posts: 569 |
posted July 01, 2002 17:32
personally I don't thinkthat politics should be there, i'm only putting it for you guys... from your attitude towards it, u, i dont think i'll put it in quite yet..... http://homepage.mac.com/ilovemydualg4/gcc/gcc.html ------------------ IP: Logged |
uilleann Highlie Posts: 661 |
posted July 02, 2002 02:54
Quoting ilovemydualg4: from your attitude towards it, u, i dont think i'll put it in quite yet..... What "attitude"? Hey, I used a smiley, and said aye, to show I was willing really! Yes, I have strong opinions, but I don't run this show, and after all, if I or anyone else doesn't want to state any political opinions, they can just omit that section. If other people want politics then put it in. Yet, where is their support? Where are all the other ayes and nays? Maybe you are right after all - I mean, it's just my opinion and yours right now, and if we don't want it, who is there to argue? Anyhow, comments on the code:
Various other issues raised previously still remain. OK, I'm trying to make mine now, and am starting to have problems with the scale: Where does the average person come? (3? 2? 1?) How can I be accurate on a scale of only 0-5? It can be left open to interpretation (we can all work these things out) but there is always the issue that we might not reach the same conclusions as others. The meaning of * is also confusing. How many people are *? Where does * come in terms of linear scale? 6? 10? 20? What are the repercussions of * on the meaning of the maximum value (5)? For general computing, I'm assuming [Stop press - this is harder than I thought]: Even that feels non-linear, and with steps missing. I guess this is just me over-analysing it, and that everyone else will pick something that looks right at the time... but then, no, that is my cynical assumption that I use on the world - we're geeks here, particular, precise and accurate with things like this. Thus, I feel unsure if I have a valid point here, or whether this is just a problem only I have. Another problem I have is with explicit wording. For example, by the description, people who eat at home cook. Do they? What if their parents do or spouse/partner does, or they eat microwaved food? It would be nice to avoid such explicit statements of activity that put me off providing certain selectors. - uilleann IP: Logged |
GameMaster Highlie Posts: 604 |
posted July 05, 2002 04:50
* == 10... so that the scale is 0 to 10, but only takes one char. I like the chances I see. Now to spread the code... ------------------ IP: Logged |
GameMaster Highlie Posts: 604 |
posted July 05, 2002 05:07
Noticing U's code, I like his format but his numers are off ecause of the way the code is writen. the line that has the "*-0, *, 5 and 0 are listed" should read... "The scale is from 10 to 0, and 10 is represented by *. ..." The listing of modifiers should also show this change.... ------------------ IP: Logged |
GameMaster Highlie Posts: 604 |
posted July 05, 2002 05:57
Alright, finished mine up... using the UPF, sorry I areviated the name, U, but it had to fit in a !spec line...
Home page | Geek Code and Geek Culture Code IP: Logged |
GameMaster Highlie Posts: 604 |
posted July 05, 2002 05:59
Double post sorry. IP: Logged |
uilleann Highlie Posts: 661 |
posted July 05, 2002 07:15
Gamemaster:
- U IP: Logged |
GameMaster Highlie Posts: 604 |
posted July 06, 2002 21:15
ah. I like this...
-OR-
Also, if we change the hierarchy to use all {} for catagories, then wwe can include them like this...
------------------ IP: Logged |
uilleann Highlie Posts: 661 |
posted July 07, 2002 02:00
Hrm... I can see these braces beginning to get rather unsightly... - uilleann IP: Logged |
uilleann Highlie Posts: 661 |
posted July 07, 2002 17:26
Actually, I was thinking along the lines of satisfying both myself and ilovemydualg4 by considering the section markers (e.g. PERS:) to be optional, and of course allowing for white space to be optional, so that either format can be used, depending on personal taste. The !spec lines will be mandatory for add-ons, though, for parsers to use, and !date is very useful to note to people just how recent a code is, in case the code's owner forgot about it :) However, from the point of human comprehension, it would help to have some means of identifying which sections come from which add-on, to facilitate easy look-up; this would not be a problem for the parser which would just build a complete set of all possible subsections and selectors. This does, though, assume that it is not possible for an add-on to add to existing sections defined in the official spec. Now, some thoughts about the parser: 1. What should spec URLs point to? The parser expects a spec file, but humans (and yes, even Martians, MacGenius) reading the code would expect something readable. Maybe they are just expected to be able to read spec files, but instead, we could allow for: 2. Another nicety to provide for people is direct linking to the parser. That is, to have the parser accept links like parser.cgi?parsepage=http://www.geocities.com/ilha-G/gcc/gcc.html. Then, by wrapping the non-existent <gcc></gcc> tag around the code, the parser will pull the Geek Culture Code out and parse it. That saves lots of annoying copying and pasting, and beats the existing method for the original code by making the link itself contain the code, with the issue of the code and link getting out of step. 3. Versions. I'm supposing that it will go like this: Parser is presented with a Geek Culture Code, and it reads the !spec lines and obtains the specification file URLs and specification versions. It downloads all the .spec files, parses them, and uses that to parse the code. The .spec files are stored to disc, with modified filenames, e.g. GCC-0.86.spec. For future codes, when it reads the specification version from the !spec line, it looks for a file named, say, GCC-0.86.spec or MYADDON-1.4.5.spec and if it finds it, uses it, else downloads a copy. Now, here comes the problem. What if the version requested is no longer available? The code might say !spec MYADDON,1.1,some-url/myaddon.html,addon.spec, but the latest cached version might be 0.4, and the current one downloaded might internally identify itself to be 1.4. What version does the parser use? The nearest one? Both, and compare? Should sites keep copies of all older versions? Should the current version, too, have the version number? If all versions are kept, then the !spec line would be this: You know, though - this might all be a fantastically well designed system in the end, but I still wonder - if we're going to this much trouble to make a parser to output a more readable form of the code, then something might, perchance, be wrong with the idea of making the code unreadable in the first place? ;-) Oh, and another thought - just how many unresolved issues are there now? I think we have a veritable collection of them, such as the reciprocal eating in and eating out selectors. I've just added, above, what I suspect, will only swell the collection. - uilleann IP: Logged |
GameMaster Highlie Posts: 604 |
posted July 07, 2002 22:24
But if we use the braces like C++ and java does, we could use a function much like tokenize('{}') and the iterate through attaching meanings from the spec files. I personally like #include or # to !spec, but I'm not going to make that an issue. I suppose we could meake the tags a comment... [code] ------------------ IP: Logged |
uilleann Highlie Posts: 661 |
posted July 08, 2002 02:18
Quoting GameMaster: we could use a function much like tokenize('{}')... There's nothing wrong IMHO with using braces as such, but having three levels of them starts to look crowded. I personally like #include or # to !spec I suppose we could meake the tags a comment... Odd thing is, when I first mentioned comments, you thought I was out of my mind... ;) - uilleann IP: Logged |
uilleann Highlie Posts: 661 |
posted July 15, 2002 02:36
I will confess that I do tend to forget to include my Geek Culture Code link in my posts (because I dislike the UBB signature format and must thus add the link manually). But, I've not abandoned it. It seems, though, that work on the code has died. What's up, people? New job tying ilovemydualg4 up too much these days? - uilleann IP: Logged |
ilovemydualg4 Highlie Posts: 569 |
posted July 15, 2002 03:12
sorry, it's amazing how fast 9-12 becomes 9-5..... this afternoon hopefully i'll get a break and i'll work on the code ------------------ IP: Logged |
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