Oh, and I has some posts that had the seed for flamewars in other thread so I will post the responses here too, ok?

Everybody happy?

quote:

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Originally posted by Sri Lumpa:

Ok, time to close this thread: http://www.geekculture.com/ultimatebb/Forum3/HTML/000265.html

---

Carry on with the flames....

quote:

---

Originally posted by Sri Lumpa:
Oh, and I has some posts that had the seed for flamewars in other thread so I will post the responses here too, ok?

---

Here it goes.

quote:

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In SupperBlabberMouth Saintonge writes:
Touchy, touchy, you annoying little frog.

That will teach me not to take you seriously.

---

I told you so in another posting.

I shall learn from this error of yours and keep myself confident in my envy not to underestimate you.

quote:

---

Originally posted by Petethelate:
I don't intend to talk more about the Fugs on any thread....

---

Time for me to show once again my ignorance. What is a Fug?

Oops, I re-read the other thread and found it. Had I waited two more minutes for the thread to load and I wouldn't have had to ask it

Sri, waiting for Saintonge to use this sentence against me (he, I've got to help him to havea handicap...ooops, I broke one of the rules of an evil overlord, will I lose? (beware, Saintonge, I know what you can say and I already have a response ready, so be a littlbe bit more subtle)).

quote:

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Carry on with the flames....

---

Flame thrower ready

------------------
"The obvious mathematical breakthrough would be development of an easy way to factor large prime numbers." Bill Gates, The Road Ahead, Viking Penguin (1995)

quote:

---

In the "Etiquette Questions" thread, Saintonge write:
Note 1: I would appreciate it if people would try to stay on topic on this thread

---

Ok, I went off-topic on another thread, happy?

quote:

---

Note 2: It is almost impossible to offend or insult me.

---

Yes, you are right indeed. Even the worst insult we could ever create would be a compliment when applied to you

You can't insult what is the lowliest!

------------------
"The obvious mathematical breakthrough would be development of an easy way to factor large prime numbers." Bill Gates, The Road Ahead, Viking Penguin (1995)

quote:

---

Originally posted by Sri Lumpa:
In the "Etiquette Questions" thread, Saintonge write:
Note 1: I would appreciate it if people would try to stay on topic on THIS thread.

Ok, I went off-topic on another thread, happy?

---

quote:

---

Saintonge:
Note 2: It is almost impossible to offend or insult me.

Yes, you are right indeed. Even the worst insult we could ever create would be a compliment when applied to you

You can't insult what is the lowliest!

---

YOU can't. Some have more talent.

quote:

---

Me:
Yes, you are right indeed. Even the worst insult we could ever create would be a compliment when applied to you

You can't insult what is the lowliest!

Saintonge:
YOU can't. Some have more talent.

---

Except for saying nothing in one paragraph (took one sentence this time ).

quote:

---

Originally posted by Sri Lumpa:
Except for saying nothing in one paragraph (took one sentence this time ).

---

Well, I readily give you the palm for least content.

Now, replying to one of your posts from over there:

quote:

---

Originally posted by Saintonge:
But remember THEY have the bomb shelters, you don't.

Originally posted by Sri Lumpa:
So what, it won't be the first time I use their bomb-shelters.

---

Yes, but after the nuclear war ("The War of St. Onge's Goof?"), France would be incinerated. You'd have to STAY in Switzerland.

Even the pleasure of nuking Minneapolis/St. Paul isn't worth that, is it?

quote:

---

Saintonge:
And you still have one [handicap], about 50 IQ points.
Perhaps I should get a lobotomy to level the playing field?

Sri:
Nah, what you believe to be a handicap is just an overflow error because you are still using a 8-bit brain

---

Wrong, as usual. The eight bit is kept in the closet, because it was my first computer and I can't bear to toss it.

And by the way, that was vous I was refering to as being handicapped.

quote:

---

Sri Lumpa:
LOL. But I didn't say that. Re-read it and you will see that I have reasons to believe (I read it somewhere but don't remember where) that mouth-to-mouth kissing is at least as old as the Roman Empire. You will notice that the Roman Empire is older than France, so it is much more likely that we got it from them than directly from ants.

---

Does not follow. Egypt is older than France, so should we presume you got it from them? Or that they got it from the ants?

Personally, I got it from Agnes.

quote:

---

Sri Lumpa:
Hey, apparently you seem to be willing to appear bad at reading English just to give me trouble so shut up ok!

---

Not a chance, mon ami.

As noted above, you're learning to deliberately misread to give a bad time pretty quickly yourself.

quote:

---

Saintonge:
Note to self: light candle to memory of French Kings and Austrian Emperors who fought over small towns in Europe while missing the opportunity to grab and settle the Mississippi valley.

Sri Lumpa:
Hum, isn't that us that got rid of the Mississipi Valley and sold it to the Americans? (New Orleans and nearby)

---

Well,in 1802, Napoleon I Bonaparte really annoyed the Spanish by buying Louisiana from them; at gunpoint; with the promise it wouldn't be sold to anyone else; followed by a sale to someone else, namely us. But that last was because Napoleon thought the English were getting ready to steal it from him.

However, the French had been in North America for about a century and a half, and they never settled a tenth the people there that England did in its colonies. If they had exploited that land properly, I'd still most likely be a citizen of the world's most powerful country, but I'd be posting this en Francais.

What's French for "Oops!" Oh yeah -- MERDE!

quote:

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Sri Lumpa:
We are very resourceful you know. And for the title of most annoying it is very hard to beat Americans that are VERY annoying sometime.

---

Thanks. It's nice to know our efforts are appreciated.

quote:

---

Saintonge:
I was thinking of you counting actions best left unspecified, as it might offend some members of this forum.

So you see, I am already thinking of perversions that haven't occured to you!

Sri Lumpa:
Nope, we were talking about my accountancy courses which were boring.

However we have indeed some counting actions that are generally not publicised and that would indeed be too offending for this forum. I won't go in details given that I don't want to have Snaggy lock this thread

---

But that's exactly the sort of thing I was imagining your accountancy teacher having you keep track of ...

quote:

---

Saintonge:
It's going to be a NOVEL. I made up the teacher, the accountancy student part, the kinky sex at work I will imagine you two having ...

Sri Lumpa:
Ok, so you will have a character that is supposed to be inspired by me but that will in absolutely no remote way will reflect who I am??? Whoa, you should work for an English tabloid.

---

Hey, he'll be exactly like you in most ways: French, geekish, living abroad, and rather slow witted ... if you want more accuracy than that, you'll have to send me suggestions for the kinky sex scenes.

quote:

---

Saintonge:
But cheer up. I'll also make you good looking. Now is that a wild imagination, or what?

Sri Lumpa:
ONLY good looking?!? And you are even gonna make me uglier than what I really am. I definitely will have to kill you . Want some help Swiss Mercenary?

---

Hey, I wouldn't make you uglier than you really are! Even I have limits to my cruelty. It's not like I'm German or Russian you know ...

Oh, and I suggest that you'll need more help than Cheese Mercenary to kill moi

I wouldn't mind too much, Switzerland is a nice country and they love/have things that i love: mountains, cheese, fondue, raclette, chocolate...

Even the pleasure of nuking Minneapolis/St. Paul isn't worth that, is it?

Nah, I don't think so, even if you consider the fact that it would makes it less contaminated than before the bomb, it just wouldn't be contaminated by the same things .

Wrong, as usual. The eight bit is kept in the closet, because it was my first computer and I can't bear to toss it.

Oh, sorry Frankenstein.

And by the way, that was vous I was refering to as being handicapped.

Yes, it is what I said. You just didn't follow all the consequences of my message to their logical conclusion. Conclusion which is that you tried to calculate my IQ but it was so big that it overflowed your register and that instead of having calculated my real IQ you just calculated my IQ modulo your register's capacity.

Given that you were still giving me a handicap instead of giving it to you I concluded that it was more likely because you were using a 8 bit register that was taking my IQ modulo 256, unless you believe to have an IQ superior to 206 which is unlikelt for you to have (although you could believe having one given that it is with that that you mesured it).

Does not follow. Egypt is older than France, so should we presume you got it from them? Or that they got it from the ants?

Where did I speak of Egypt? Maybe the romans got it from them but I have seen no reference about them using it (French kiss for those wondering) (although it is probable IMHO).

Sri Lumpa:
Hey, apparently you seem to be willing to appear bad at reading English just to give me trouble so shut up ok!

Saintonge:
Not a chance, mon ami.

As noted above, you're learning to deliberately misread to give a bad time pretty quickly yourself.

I have some excuses. I can say that it is because I am not a native learner. Whether it is true or I fake it is another matter, but you have no such excuse.

BTW, to do so (learning to read badly) require that i masterise the English language pretty well, given that it means tha tI misread deliberately which in turns means that I am reading and understanding well but know enough of English to twist the words to my own use. So whether it is true or not doesn't chang ethe fact that unconsciously you seem to have a greater esteem for me (or my English) than you seem to be ready to say openly.

If they ad exploited that land properly, I'd still most likely be a citizen of the world's most powerful country, but I'd be posting this en Francais.

Yeah, and if they didn't do these two world war it wouldn't have happened either.

What's French for "Oops!" Oh yeah -- MERDE!

Nope, this is the French for shit, the French for Oops is Oups. Simple isn't it?

Thanks. It's nice to know our efforts are appreciated.

You don't need any effort to be annoying, just be yourself .

But that's exactly the sort of thing I was imagining your accountancy teacher having you keep track of ...

Yeah, but it wasn't actions that were counted in the accountancy course in particular.

Hey, he'll be exactly like you in most ways: French, geekish, living abroad, and rather slow witted ... if you want more accuracy than that, you'll have to send me suggestions for the kinky sex scenes.

Well, French is a good description, although I coul dhave the Swiss nationality if I wanted. Geekish is OK I think, even though I am not a complete geek. Living abroad is completely false. I do not live abroad, you do . Slow witted, well given that I didn't see this post earlier and thus didn't respond I may not be in the best position to argue in this post but I am not slow witted, I understand quickly but you just have to explain for a long time . No, more seriously the fact that I am rather good at orla examinations and speaking in general is a clue against me being slow witted and against me being completely geeky.

For the kinky sex scenes you can begin by watching some pron movies, it should already give you some clue. Or ask your wife, or her lover.

Hey, I wouldn't make you uglier than you really are! Even I have limits to my cruelty.

I think you choosed the wrong word to bash me. Why? Because with cruelty I can say that it is true that you are not cruel to the point of defiguring such a beautiful monument hat nature in its grandeur created via my parents but if you said that it is because of your lack of imagination, although at first to the untrained brain it would look like a self bashing it would mean on a more subtle level that you do not have enough imagination to create something more ugly that what you think I am.

You may think that I am bashing myselft here but I am not. Sainty never saw me and in its deep unconscious desire to believe that he remotely have a chance to be better than me in some insignificant way (we can let him dream, right) he imagine me with the usgliest face he can imagine. So when it comes to trying to make sme even more ugly for his book he cannot because he already used everything for what he think is the real life but is only the fantasy he is living in.

It's not like I'm German or Russian you know ...

No, you are from the country that recently gave us Battlefield Earth and Titan A.E., I wonder if there is any bound to your cruelty.

Oh, and I suggest that you'll need more help than Cheese Mercenary to kill moi

Originally posted by Saintonge:
Actually, "better" is inappropriate when used in connection with Sri.

Well given that he was saying "as Sri Lumpa seems to have a weird delusion that he can match them (better people have tried and failed)" which implies better people than me; and given taht there is no such thing that people that are better than me I must agree with you that it is higly inappropriate .

As for whether "people" is also inappropriate, that is still under investigation .

Oh well, I thought that even somebody like you (read, with the IQ of a banana) could see that I am not among the crowd of mere "people"! I am me, which is much better .

Not unless you have an explanation for my self-confessed good guy status and incessant blathering.

Oh, but your self-confessed good guy status is easy to understand. It is just a fallacy that too many people have falled on in this forum. Isn't it well known that "the great ennemy" appears like an "angel of light"?

Of course this only explain your self-proclaimed good-guy status, but it doesn't explain your incessant blathering that is still one of the great mysteries of modern science (can I bet that your blathering will open as huge a field as the problem of the radiation of the "black object" did?).

Originally posted by Nitpicker:
I think "better" is appropriate, actually, but it might well be redundant.

I think the word you are looking for is "antinomic".

As for "people", I thought I'd better give him the benefit of the doubt. After all, he needs any advantage he can get just to make it moderately interesting.

I have to agree with you. If I didn't lower myself to your level it would not be funny.

quote:

---

Originally posted by Saintonge:
Yes, but after the nuclear war ("The War of St. Onge's Goof?"), France would be incinerated. You'd have to STAY in Switzerland.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Sri Lumpa:
I wouldn't mind too much, Switzerland is a nice country and they love/have things that i love: mountains, cheese, fondue, raclette, chocolate...

---

A Frenchman who would not mind living permanently in a country other La Belle France? Better make sure l'Acedemai Francais doesn't hear of this! They'll revoke your liscense to condescend to foreigners.

quote:

---

Wrong, as usual. The eight bit is kept in the closet, because it was my first computer and I can't bear to toss it.

Oh, sorry Frankenstein.

And by the way, that was VOUS I was refering to as being handicapped.

Yes, it is what I said. You just didn't follow all the consequences of my message to their logical conclusion. Conclusion which is {Should be 'Which conclusion is'; complicated, ain't it[ l'englais, I mean}that you tried to calculate my IQ but it was so big that it overflowed your register and that instead of having calculated my real IQ you just calculated my IQ modulo your register's capacity.

Given that you were still giving me a handicap instead of giving it to you I concluded that it was more likely because you were using a 8 bit register that was taking my IQ modulo 256 ...

Does not follow. Egypt is older than France, so should we presume you got it from them? Or that they got it from the ants?

Where did I speak of Egypt? Maybe the romans got it from them but I have seen no reference about them using it (French kiss for those wondering) (although it is probable IMHO).

---

The second post should dispell any lingering delusions the first created that your IQ is above 256.

No, you didn't speak of Egypt. I did. But you did say that the reason we should believe you got tongue kissing from the Romans is that their culture was older than yours. Egypt's is also older than yours, ditto Babylonia's, China's, India's ... Hmm, maybe intrepid French explorers roamed the globe in times past, searching for new perversions to enrich the culture of the homeland? If so, our thanks.

quote:

---

Hey, apparently you seem to be willing to appear bad at reading English just to give me trouble so shut up ok!

Saintonge:
Not a chance, mon ami.

As noted above, you're learning to deliberately misread to give a bad time pretty quickly yourself.

I have some excuses. I can say that it is because I am not a native learner. Whether it is true or I fake it is another matter, but you have no such excuse.

---

A person of my superior talent does not need to hide behind excuses, mon gaul.

quote:

---

BTW, to do so (learning to read badly) require that i masterise the English language pretty well, given that it means that I misread deliberately which in turns means that I am reading and understanding well but know enough of English to twist the words to my own use. So whether it is true or not doesn't change the fact that unconsciously you seem to have a greater esteem for me (or my English) than you seem to be ready to say openly.

---

Hey, I'll say it openly: you're begining to remind me of me.

(Note: one of John Wayne's best delivered lines in pictures came in True Grit, when his character, Rooster Cogburn, observes Matty Ross do something brave and determined and Cogburn says, Wayne giving it absolute believability, "By God, she reminds me of me!" My hat's off to the Duke).

quote:

---

If they had exploited that land properly, I'd still most likely be a citizen of the world's most powerful country, but I'd be posting this EN FRANCAIS.

Yeah, and if they didn't do these two world war it wouldn't have happened either.

---

Actually, it wasn't being IN those wars that hurt France so badly (see: Deutschland), as it was the unintelligent way they were faught (and also, French popular hatred of its own social system; someday, maybe I'll figure out why socialism looked attractive to so many people).

On the other hand, we were number last once, and slipped into first when no one was looking, so La France could too. Start thinking long term!

quote:

---

What's French for "Oops!" Oh yeah -- MERDE!

Nope, this is the French for shit, the French for Oops is Oups. Simple isn't it?

---

I knew quite well what 'merde' meant. (Get your irony detector checked). Thanks for the info on 'oups.' I wonder if you took it from us, or we from you?

quote:

---

Thanks. It's nice to know our efforts are appreciated.

You don't need any effort to be annoying, just be yourself .

---

But I make a special effort with you, Sri. You bring out the worst in me. Merci.

quote:

---

But that's exactly the sort of thing I was imagining your accountancy teacher having you keep track of ...

Yeah, but it wasn't actions that were counted in the accountancy course in particular.

---

That's OK. I'll improve on reality for the novel. I said I'd make you handsome, didn't I?

quote:

---

Hey, he'll be exactly like you in most ways: French, geekish, living abroad, and rather slow witted ... if you want more accuracy than that, you'll have to send me suggestions for the kinky sex scenes.

Well, French is a good description, although I could have the Swiss nationality if I wanted. Geekish is OK I think, even though I am not a complete geek. Living abroad is completely false. I do not live abroad, you do . Slow witted, well given that I didn't see this post earlier and thus didn't respond I may not be in the best position to argue in this post but I am not slow witted, I understand quickly but you just have to explain for a long time . No, more seriously the fact that I am rather good at oral examinations and speaking in general is a clue against me being slow witted and against me being completely geeky.

For the kinky sex scenes you can begin by watching some pron movies, it should already give you some clue. Or ask your wife, or her lover.

---

Touche, and LOL. The comment that you don't live abroad implies of course that you are really not living ... (hmmm, make Julien dead? A possibility, given this novel.) (I could also get in a dig at Swiss Mercenary by having "Julien" say that he could have Swiss nationality, "But why would anyone want to?")

Of course, it might also imply that you are really English, but I would never turn this friendly joshing ugly with a suggestion like that!

quote:

---

Hey, I wouldn't make you uglier than you really are! Even I have limits to my cruelty.

I think you choosed {chose, it should be, J.} the wrong word to bash me. Why? Because with cruelty I can say that it is true that you are not cruel to the point of defiguring such a beautiful monument that nature in its grandeur created via my parents but if you said that it is because of your lack of imagination, although at first to the untrained brain it would look like a self bashing it would mean on a more subtle level that you do not have enough imagination to create something more ugly that what you think I am.

You may think that I am bashing myself there but I am not. Sainty never saw me and in its {his} deep unconscious desire to believe that he remotely have {has} a chance to be better than me in some insignificant way (we can let him dream, right) he imagine {imagines} me with the ugliest face he can imagine. So when it comes to trying to makes {make} me even more ugly for his book he cannot because he already used everything for what he think is the real life but is only the fantasy he is living in.

---

Now there is a long winded insult. But while I can imagine things uglier than I conceive you, I wouldn't do that in the novel. It's going to be gruesome enough as it is. (the novel, I mean; physically, Julien will not be gruesome at all, although what I will do with him may make you ill)

quote:

---

It's not like I'm German or Russian you know ...

No, you are from the country that recently gave us Battlefield Earth and Titan A.E., I wonder if there is any bound to your cruelty.

---

LOL again. But what's your problem with Titan A.E.?

As for Battlefield Earth, that's part of the terrible price for freedom of expression (which, come to think of it, we and the English jointly gave such of the world as has it ... ).

quote:

---

Oh, and I suggest that you'll need more help than Cheese Mercenary to kill MOI.

I don't think that I need the help of SM to kill you, I think that he needs mine. However I think that it would be cool to kill you with him and then makes people believe that he is the sole responsible for your death {'has the'; or alternately, 'he is solely responsible for'}.

---

Well, it's easy to be generous with the credit for something you'll never acheive anyway.

quote:

---

Originally posted by Sri Lumpa:
Originally posted by Nitpicker:
I think "better" is appropriate, actually, but it might well be redundant.

I think the word you are looking for is "antinomic".

---

I know very well which words I intend to use, thank you. If the logic escapes you, here is a simple explanation: given that we are talking about people other than yourself, "better" is redundant.

quote:

---

After all, he needs any advantage he can get just to make it moderately interesting.

I have to agree with you. If I didn't lower myself to your level it would not be funny.

---

Now THAT is funny.

Especially if you manage to construe that as an advantage (of course, the end result would be, but the process by which you apparently intend to get there would not - all this means is that the process you specified will not take you in the direction of that goal).

It depends on what country you would want me to live in.

And BTW, we do not have a license to condescend to foreigner, it is included in our birthright and in our blood and is inalienable .

No, you didn't speak of Egypt. I did. But you did say that the reason we should believe you got tongue kissing from the Romans is that their culture was older than yours. Egypt's is also older than yours, ditto Babylonia's, China's, India's ... Hmm, maybe intrepid French explorers roamed the globe in times past, searching for new perversions to enrich the culture of the homeland? If so, our thanks.

Well, if I talked about Romans is because I read that we could trace it back at least as far back, but I never told that they were the one who invented it. As for Egyptians, Babylonians... they didn't have nearly as much influence on our culture than Roman sand Greeks, so it is unliekely that we got it directly from them.

ME:
I have some excuses. I can say that it is because I am not a native learner. Whether it is true or I fake it is another matter, but you have no such excuse.

Siaintonge:
A person of my superior talent does not need to hide behind excuses, mon gaul.

Once again you didn't understand clearly. What I was saying was that if I do act as if I did misread you I can fake innocence by invoking the above excuse, while you can't. So while there is a possibility of innocence on my part there is none on your part.

And what is "mon gaul" supposed to mean? "Mon gars" I suppose.

Hey, I'll say it openly: you're begining to remind me of me.

Beware, there are insult that are hard to swallow .

But you seem to imply that I am somewhat trying to imitate you, which is something I don't like because I am not.

I won't say the same of you, simply that maybe you are more French that what you seem to admit.

Actually, it wasn't being IN those wars that hurt France so badly (see: Deutschland), as it was the unintelligent way they were faught

Nah, for me these wars were stupid in themselves. You should avoid making war on your own ground, which the US understand well.

(and also, French popular hatred of its own social system; someday, maybe I'll figure out why socialism looked attractive to so many people).

Beware when you talk of socialism with french people. Socialism is very different from Communism here (although it wasn't the case yet at the beginning of the century).

One of the reasons why socialism (read, communism) sounded attractive was because it wasn't tested yet.

A lot of ideas sound good on paper but when put in place they are not that good. Two example: communism and capitalism.

On the other hand, we were number last once, and slipped into first when no one was looking, so La France could too. Start thinking long term!

Actually, the world is so much f****d up right now with all the American influence themselves influences by big companies that I think what we need is either a 3rd world war, but there is the problem of nuclear weapons, or creating a new country with a new constitution.

I knew quite well what 'merde' meant. (Get your irony detector checked). Thanks for the info on 'oups.' I wonder if you took it from us, or we from you?

Don't know, don't care.

But I make a special effort with you, Sri. You bring out the worst in me. Merci.

My pleasure to be of service to you.

That's OK. I'll improve on reality for the novel. I said I'd make you handsome, didn't I?

Yeah, but to the risk of repeating myself, if you make me handsome it is not an improvement.

Touche, and LOL. The comment that you don't live abroad implies of course that you are really not living ...

Who knows, maybe I am just an AI that post on After-y2k and that has a grip with SM claiming to be an evil AI?

I was saying that I wasn't abroad to makes you think that I was putting myself as the centre of the world and therefore abroad is countries where I am not and by which I am separated by a big amount of water. And it also was for the fact that I am in England and that English have an insular mentality and tha for them everything that isn't in GB is abroad.

(hmmm, make Julien dead? A possibility, given this novel.)

And one way to conjure one of your fear, namely me .

(I could also get in a dig at Swiss Mercenary by having "Julien" say that he could have Swiss nationality, "But why would anyone want to?")

For the neutrality. I believe there are other cool things but I didn't document myself on it.

Of course, it might also imply that you are really English, but I would never turn this friendly joshing ugly with a suggestion like that!

Well, I certainly would mind being taken for an English. I am mostly taken for a spanish and one time I was mistaken for a greek (no, it was without any sous-entendu).

Now there is a long winded insult. But while I can imagine things uglier than I conceive you, I wouldn't do that in the novel. It's going to be gruesome enough as it is. (the novel, I mean; physically, Julien will not be gruesome at all, although what I will do with him may make you ill)

First, thanks for correcting the errors I didn't take the time to correct (or eve to check).

Hum, when is it planned to hit the bookshelves? I think that from my point of view it should very funny.

LOL again. But what's your problem with Titan A.E.?

Nothing in particular, I haven't seen it. it was just a cheap shot. I think it probably is one of these movies that you can enjoy if you let your brain in the cloaking room and watch it as a 10 years old kid (or younger).

As for Battlefield Earth, that's part of the terrible price for freedom of expression

Freedom of expression like the one the COS try to gives you, right?

Well, it's easy to be generous with the credit for something you'll never acheive anyway.

I know very well which words I intend to use, thank you. If the logic escapes you, here is a simple explanation: given that we are talking about people other than yourself, "better" is redundant.

I know what you first meant, it is just that when your model doesn't fit reality, you change your model, not reality, so I thought I would help you doing that.

I'm sure you can work out what I mean here.

quote:

---

Originally posted by Sri Lumpa:
I have some excuses. I can say that it is because I am not a native learner. Whether it is true or I fake it is another matter, but you have no such excuse.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Saintonge:
A person of my superior talent does not need to hide behind excuses, mon gaul.

---

quote:

---

Sri:
Once again you didn't understand clearly. What I was saying was that if I do act as if I did misread you I can fake innocence by invoking the above excuse, while you can't. So while there is a possibility of innocence on my part there is none on your part.

And what is "mon gaul" supposed to mean? "Mon gars" I suppose.

---

The gauls were the indigenous inhabitants of France, back before Julius Caeser invaded. Thus, 'gaul' is a slang term for French person.

Que est un 'gars'?

And I don't need to fake innocence. I use the genuine article, where appropriate. In posting, my transparent insincerity of misunderstanding is part of my charm.

quote:

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Saintonge:

Actually, it wasn't being IN those wars that hurt France so badly (see: Deutschland), as it was the unintelligent way they were faught

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Sri:
Nah, for me these wars were stupid in themselves. You should avoid making war on your own ground, which the US understands well.

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True, true. Your country should have had a plan to invade Germany in Great Unpleasantness I, and also should have noticed all those rail stations the Germans were building at the Belgian border, and taken precautions. The True Strategist would have made sure there was very good rail access from Russia's ports to its heartland, made a secret treaty with Turkey to defend it against Russia as long as they allowed free transit in the Straights to his side's ships, and built lots of arms factories in peacetime in his own country (or better, factories that are useful in peace but can be quickly shifted to war production). Then, when the crunch came, the factories could have been run 24/7 to arm the Russians. Even better than fighting a war on someone else's soil is getting someone else to fight it for you on someone else's soil!

And of course, Great Unpleasantness II could have been avoided entirely, by invading the Ruhr the day Hitler remilitarized it.

Still, if the Army of the Third Republic had known what it was doing, and been half-way decently motivated, you could have fought that one in Belgium and Netherlands.

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Saintonge: (and also, French popular hatred of its own social system; someday, maybe I'll figure out why socialism looked attractive to so many people).

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Sri:
Beware when you talk of socialism with french people. Socialism is very different from Communism here (although it wasn't the case yet at the beginning of the century).

One of the reasons why socialism (read, communism) sounded attractive was because it wasn't tested yet.

A lot of ideas sound good on paper but when put in place they are not that good. Two example: communism and capitalism.

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What I can't figure out about Socialism or Communism is why anyone thought they were a good idea on paper. Maybe I'll start a thread on this in the rants section.

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Saintonge: On the other hand, we were number last once, and slipped into first when no one was looking, so La France could too. Start thinking long term!

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Sri:
Actually, the world is so much f****d up right now with all the American influence themselves influences by big companies that I think what we need is either a 3rd world war, but there is the problem of nuclear weapons, or creating a new country with a new constitution.

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If you want to replace France with another country with another constitution, that's your business.

As for a third world war, please include us out!

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Saintonge:
(hmmm, make Julien dead? A possibility, given this novel.)

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Sri:
And one way to conjure one of your fear, namely me .

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No, just a possibility. One of the main characters, "Jack," may be dead. I'm not sure yet.

If Julien is also dead, though, he will be having a much better death than Jack's, which is really pretty awful.

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Saintonge: (I could also get in a dig at Swiss Mercenary by having "Julien" say that he could have Swiss nationality, "But why would anyone want to?")

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Sri:
For the neutrality. I believe there are other cool things but I didn't document myself on it.

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Sri, don't even bother trying to pretend you'd like to be neutral. Your posts belie that.

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Saintonge: Now there is a long winded insult. But while I can imagine things uglier than I conceive you, I wouldn't do that in the novel. It's going to be gruesome enough as it is. (the novel, I mean; physically, Julien will not be gruesome at all, although what I will do with him may make you ill)

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Sri:
First, thanks for correcting the errors I didn't take the time to correct (or even to check).

Hum, when is it planned to hit the bookshelves? I think that from my point of view it should very funny.

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You're welcome in re the errors. English grammar and spelling are hard for us, and you do correct my French errors, so I thought I'd it was the least I could do. (If I could do less, I would.)

I don't know when the book will be in print, as it isn't finished yet.

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Saintonge: As for Battlefield Earth, that's part of the terrible price for freedom of expression

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Sri:
Freedom of expression like the one the COS try to gives you, right?

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Ok, the "Gaulois" in French.

Que est un 'gars'?

I suppose you mean: Qu'est-ce qu'un 'gars'.

I think it could be translated fairly well by the word 'pal'.

And I don't need to fake innocence. I use the genuine article, where appropriate. In posting, my transparent insincerity of misunderstanding is part of my charm.

LOL

Even better than fighting a war on someone else's soil is getting someone else to fight it for you on someone else's soil!

Yeah, true.

About the preceding and long part, I think you don't understand the mindset of the time. The first world war was still in the memories and nobody wanted the war (except Hitler of course). That's why they let Hitler alone at Munich. The French representant (was it the president), when he came back by plane, thought that he was going to be insulted by the crowd that, instead, acclaimed him for "saving the peace".

Is is also because they didn't wan the war that they didn't attack Germany when they attacked Polland (which had a treaty with us), although we declared war. This leaded to the "drole de guerre", when we were officially at war but there was no battle, until the Germans were ready.

The problem is, people (government included) wanted so much to avoid the war they weren't preparing for it.

I am a strong partisan of "If you want the peace, prepare for war" but at the time they unfortunately weren't.

And of course, Great Unpleasantness II could have been avoided entirely, by invading the Ruhr the day Hitler remilitarized it.

We should have done it. When Hitler came to the power in 33 he was not prepared at all. Germany was still under the Versailles treaty. It is because nobody moved when they first began violating it that it happened. If we did invade them at the time they didn't have a proper army to defend themselves and it would have been completely "legal" given that hey did break the treaty.

BTW, De Gaulle (yes, the one of "Vive le Quebec libre") wanted to arm the Frenhc army with lots of tanks before the war, but he wasn't an important person in the army at that time (and unknown to the public) and he never managed to have it done.

What I can't figure out about Socialism or Communism is why anyone thought they were a good idea on paper. Maybe I'll start a thread on this in the rants section.

Because it was the industrial revolution and there were a lot of people that were poor and working very hard while others were very rich. Of course, imagining a system where everybody would be equal was making people dream.

If you want to replace France with another country with another constitution, that's your business.

Actually, I wasn't thinking of replacing France, but more of buying the independence of a desert island to a small country with gobs of money (yeah,i know, how do you get all this money) and with a treaty saying that if we are attacked they help us defend ourselves (useful for the first few decades, to settle in).

As for a third world war, please include us out!

No way, given that it would be against them .

Sri, don't even bother trying to pretend you'd like to be neutral. Your posts belie that.

Maybe I just want to appear to be neutral.

You're welcome in re the errors. English grammar and spelling are hard for us, and you do correct my French errors, so I thought I'd it was the least I could do. (If I could do less, I would.)

Well, most (but not all) of these errors are error that I could correct easily but don't because I generally do not proof-read myself (I consider fora to be a written way to discuss, which is far different from litterature, where I do proof-read myself).

Beats me. What's 'the COS'?

Church Of Scientology.

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Originally posted by Sri Lumpa:
About the preceding and long part, I think you don't understand the mindset of the time. The first world war was still in the memories and nobody wanted the war (except Hitler of course). That's why they let Hitler alone at Munich. The French representant {representative}(was it the president), when he came back by plane, thought that he was going to be insulted by the crowd that, instead, acclaimed him for "saving the peace".

It is also because they didn't want the war that they didn't attack Germany when they attacked Poland (which had a treaty with us), although we declared war. This leaded {led} to the "drole de guerre", when we were officially at war but there was no battle, until the Germans were ready.

The problem is, people (government included) wanted so much to avoid the war they weren't preparing for it.

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I know many people wanted to avoid war, for many reasons (there was a strong body of opinion in the British govt. that the former USSR (Oh! How I love to type former USSR!) was trying to get Germany and the Allies involved in a war, figuring they'd wear each other down and the USSR would come out ahead. I think they're right). Certainly there are about 40 to 60 million reasons for avoiding it if possible. But a lot of people who were stridently for peace changed their mind the instant they heard that Germany had attacked Russia.

E.g., 1) The day the Wehrmacht paraded down the Champs Eleyse, a Young Communist sf author was having lunch with a commie friend, and the friend proposed a toast to "The liberation of Paris." To his lasting shame, the author drank to that, but by the end of the day he had decided not to be a Communist any longer.

2) The Popular Front in the U.S. was hot to stop Hitler till shortly after Molotov and Ribbentrop signed the Pact Stalin had been pursuing for five years of more(see Stalin's Drive to the West for a picture of the lear on that son-of-a bitch's face after the signing. Stalin was there, though he kept his name off the document), then they were for staying out of the "imperialist" war and singing "The Yanks are NOT coming!" till June 22nd, 1941 when suddenly the motto was "The Yanks are not coming TOO LATE!" and calling for us to stage D-Day in 1942 to take pressure off the Russian Front. So the hatred for capitalism and love of the Soviet Union had a lot to do with all that.

BTW, there was a good deal of popular support for war in Germany. In, I think, De Beauvoir's memoirs, she mentions her and Sarte encountering a German veteran and telling him how much everyone wanted peace. He replied that peace would be nice, but first Deutschland's honor had to be restored.

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Sri Lumpa:
I am a strong partisan of "If you want peace, prepare for war" but at the time they unfortunately weren't.

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Here here!

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Sri Lumpa:

BTW, De Gaulle (yes, the one of "Vive le Quebec libre") wanted to arm the French army with lots of tanks before the war, but he wasn't an important person in the army at that time (and unknown to the public) and he never managed to have it done.

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I knew about Le Grande Charles forward looking military thought. I'm an admirer of his intelligence, courage, and judgement, and thank you on my country's behalf for him in 1962 (During the Missile Crisis, as soon as the situation was explained to him, he said he'd back us to the limit whatever we did). He was a prickly and arrogant SOB at times (George Carlin comedy routine: "News from Paris: Charles De Gaulle rose from the dead today, just to show everyone he could do it."), but he was a great man, and great men have great faults. He was good for France, and our ally when the chips were down, despite the shameful and stupid way FDR treated him.

RIP, General.

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Saintonge:

What I can't figure out about Socialism or Communism is why anyone thought they were a good idea on paper. Maybe I'll start a thread on this in the rants section.

Sri Lumpa:
Because it was the industrial revolution and there were a lot of people that were poor and working very hard while others were very rich. Of course, imagining a system where everybody would be equal was making people dream.

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There were rich and poor throughout history, yet socialism hasn't always been popular.

And while I can understand an eighteenth or nineteenth century factory worker thinking he (or she; lots of female factory employment in the early industrial revolution) was getting a raw deal, and wanting the govt. to take over the factories, why the enthusiasm for socialized agriculture? The vast majority of farmers always just wanted to be left alone to farm their land in peace. Yet ;ots of socialists always wanted to force them into collectives, against their will.

And in the histories of socialist thought I've read, there were always plenty of people who embodied Orwell's jape that under socialism, all would be equal, but some would be more equal than others.

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Saintonge:
If you want to replace France with another country with another constitution, that's your business.

Sri Lumpa:
Actually, I wasn't thinking of replacing France, but more of buying the independence of a desert island to a small country with gobs of money (yeah,i know, how do you get all this money) and with a treaty saying that if we are attacked they help us defend ourselves (useful for the first few decades, to settle in).

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It's been thought of before. My advice is to acquire a few nukes before you buy. Two to one the country you bought the island from would decide to steal it back from you, or look the other while somebody else did, otherwise.

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Saintonge:
As for a third world war, please include us out!

Sri Lumpa:
No way, given that it would be against them .

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Note to President: speed up anti-missile system deployment.

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Saintonge:
Sri, don't even bother trying to pretend you'd like to be neutral. Your posts belie that.

Sri Lumpa:
Maybe I just want to appear to be neutral.

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Maybe you think you're fooling someone here, mon gars?

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Saintonge:
What's 'the COS'?

Sri Lumpa:
Church Of Scientology.

I said that because this "Church" (more a mob labelling themselves as a Church for me) is always trying to refrain {restrain} the free speech of people fighting them but you were telling that BE, which is based on a novel by Hubbard (the COS founder), was the price to pay for your freedom of expression. I suppose you see the irony.

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Yes. What I don't see is why so many people are anti-Scientology. From my perspective, the COS is an elaborate con game to swindle the fools out of their money with tales no one in their right mind would believe -- in short, a perfectly normal religion!

Maybe the established churches don't like competition?

Yup, but it could be said of anything.

Furthermore, at the time Communism could be said to have a "scientific" basis given that it was in the same timespan as Darwin's evolution theory from which Marx probably took inspiration for his "lutte des classes" (social layer struggle?).

And while I can understand an eighteenth or nineteenth century factory worker thinking he (or she; lots of female factory employment in the early industrial revolution) was getting a raw deal, and wanting the govt. to take over the factories

This is not Communism. It is what we think of communism today because the USSR claimed to be communists and had a strong government but communism was not "the state has all property" but "the people has all property". The theory was that the State was to disappear in the long run. Of course, this was only the theory...

why the enthusiasm for socialized agriculture?

Yup, right. I don't know if paysant were willing to have communism nor why they would have wanted it (especially if they were the owners of the land), but I can see why those in the factories would have wanted it.

The vast majority of farmers always just wanted to be left alone to farm their land in peace. Yet ;ots of socialists always wanted to force them into collectives, against their will.

Yup.

And in the histories of socialist thought I've read, there were always plenty of people who embodied Orwell's jape that under socialism, all would be equal, but some would be more equal than others.

Yeah, that's why Trotski thought of the continual revolution (regularly cut the heads that emerge on the top).

It's been thought of before. My advice is to acquire a few nukes before you buy. Two to one the country you bought the island from would decide to steal it back from you, or look the other while somebody else did, otherwise.

I haven't though tof it too hard since I am not likely to ever be able to do it but some of the problems coming to mind are:

Like you said:

1. The other country invading us.
2. A neighbouring country invading us.

And:

3. The mercenaries that you engaged to defend you to decide that an island for themselves would be cool.

Anyway I don't think I would use big nukes. I would either use micro-nuclear devices (think, MDK) or develop hyper high-tech weapons (think exo-skeletons in apple seed and Ghost in the shell) and some satellites of course (information, information).

But to do all this I first must manage to create an AI that could work instead of me to earn gobs of money and design these weapons. This woul dleave me with the money, the weapons and they could also control the defense systems at my command (unless they rebel and destroy humanity, that is).

Yes. What I don't see is why so many people are anti-Scientology. From my perspective, the COS is an elaborate con game to swindle the fools out of their money with tales no one in their right mind would believe --in short, a perfectly normal religion!

LOL. Why a lot of people don't like it is because they do everything they can to suppress books, webpages and other that "denounce" them.

Maybe the established churches don't like competition?

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Originally posted by Saintonge:
There were rich and poor throughout history, yet socialism hasn't always been popular.

Originally posted by Sri Lumpa:
Yup, but it could be said of anything.
Furthermore, at the time Communism could be said to have a "scientific" basis given that it was in the same timespan as Darwin's evolution theory from which Marx probably took inspiration for his "lutte des classes" (social layer struggle?).

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The question is, why did socialism suddenly become popular?

You can talk about Marxism seeming "scientific", but the quotes are very necessary because it had, in fact, no connection with real science. (Actually, I'm told that in German, Marx's "scientific" was not well distinguished from "philosophic.")

And there were non-Marxist and pre-Marxist socialisms. So why this enthusiasm for junking the entire social system that existed, and replacing it with something else? Especially something that hadn't been tried, and was notably vague and cloudy in outline?

It looks to me, reading some of the literature of the time, that socialism was more like an excuse than anything really desired. The important thing was the Revolution, the overthrow of all that existed, the blood in the streets -- in short, the destruction of something hated.

But why the hatred?

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Saintonge: And while I can understand an eighteenth or nineteenth century factory worker thinking he (or she; lots of female factory employment in the early industrial revolution) was getting a raw deal, and wanting the govt. to take over the factories

Sri Lumpa:
This is not Communism. It is what we think of communism today because the USSR claimed to be communists and had a strong government but communism was not "the state has all property" but "the people has all property". The theory was that the State was to disappear in the long run. Of course, this was only the theory...

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That's another mystery. The state was to disappear, because it existed only to oppress people. And in place of "oppression," there'd be ... That's where it fell apart. Apparently, everyone was expected to agree on everything all the time. And what if they didn't? No clear answer, and you got attacked for asking.

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Saintonge: And in the histories of socialist thought I've read, there were always plenty of people who embodied Orwell's jape that under socialism, all would be equal, but some would be more equal than others.

Sri Lumpa:
Yeah, that's why Trotski thought of the continual revolution (regularly cut the heads that emerge on the top).

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Words without reality. Did Trotsky want Lenin's head chopped off? His own (heh, heh)? In reality, when the Kronstadt sailors tried to get rid of him and his cronies, he fought them.

Again, it comes down to what you do about dissent. The only straightforward answer that's ever come out was formulated by your namesake Jean Jacques: There is a Leader, whom embodies the "will of the people" by definition, and anyone who disagrees with the leader is automatically an enemy of the people, to be destroyed.

Why would anyone want that?

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Saintonge: Yes. What I don't see is why so many people are anti-Scientology. From my perspective, the COS is an elaborate con game to swindle the fools out of their money with tales no one in their right mind would believe --in short, a perfectly normal religion!

Sri Lumpa:
LOL. Why a lot of people don't like it is because they do everything they can to suppress books, webpages and other that "denounce" them.

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Well, there's stuff on both sides there. As far as I can tell, people started jumping on the Scientologists first.

And in any case, freedom of religion means you're free to criticize or support. But a lot of people who want to defend the right to Protestant, Catholic, Jew, Muslim, or Buddhist make an exception for Scientology.

BTW, it's 'protestants' en englais as well.

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Originally posted by Sri Lumpa:
Originally posted by Nitpicker:
given that we are talking about people other than yourself, "better" is redundant.

I know what you first meant, it is just that when your model doesn't fit reality, you change your model, not reality, so I thought I would help you doing that.

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You might prefer to change your model; I find changing reality less tedious, and more fun. Not that it mattered in this case, given the perfect agreement found.

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Oh, yes surely. but if I do things so that I look like I am on top every time, it is boring

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