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Author Topic:   Making the BIG switch from dark to light...
GameGod
Geek-in-Training

Posts: 39
From: Gamerz World, Canada
Registered: Jan 2001

posted March 12, 2002 20:01     Click Here to See the Profile for GameGod   Click Here to Email GameGod     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Hey,
I've finally decided, to put my Windows comp00ter back in the box and stuff it in my closet. Now I am going onto bigger, better things... the new iMac (or iBook, I'll get to this later)
I'm sick and tired of my Hewlett Packard, and I'm ready to take Snaggy's advice, and earn tons of money for a iMac/iBook w/ iPod, But... I am not so sure which to get, and what I should know before I purchase it.
I want to be free and wireless, but Im not so used to being away from my desktop computer. I want to get the iBook to bring on trips, but I want my desk to have an actual purpose other than storing things. Which one should I get?
Also, what should I know about Apple before I make my purchase in a few months or so, I have hardly any Apple experience, only a few seconds, cause Snaggy and Nitrozac used to kick me outta their "working chair" if I came close to their computers... buut Nitrozac let me use her ol' iBook after a while yay nitro!
Anyways, what should this MacNewbie know before he goes to the Lightside? and Which one should I get?

------------------
~~Stay Cool~~
GameGod

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Aaron
Geek Larva

Posts: 23
From: University of Iowa
Registered: Jan 2002

posted March 12, 2002 20:10     Click Here to See the Profile for Aaron     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Well personally I have an older clamshell indigo iBook. As far as functionality it all depends on what you want to do with your computer. If you feel like you would ever do major video or grafic editing get a G4 and never look back. If the G5 is out by the time you have the money get that The only problem with the current iBook like is it is Apple's only linup with a G3. So if portability is your thing try to wait out for the iBook line to go to a G4 or get a Ti. Remember there is no shame in the "special deals" on apples web page or even going through another retailer to get some additional free RAM. Oh and 10.1.3 and 10.2 will be RAM hogs so get plenty.

Aaron

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GameGod
Geek-in-Training

Posts: 39
From: Gamerz World, Canada
Registered: Jan 2001

posted March 12, 2002 20:11     Click Here to See the Profile for GameGod   Click Here to Email GameGod     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
oh god I just realised that I'm gonna be a newbie again! Oh the Pain! The un-Intelligence! Oh the Loss of Ability to beat your friends to solving a computer problem first oh no!
10.1.3 wha? 10.2? what the? lol I am confuzzled

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The Lama
Geek

Posts: 67
From: At a Mac near you
Registered: Mar 2002

posted March 12, 2002 20:21     Click Here to See the Profile for The Lama   Click Here to Email The Lama     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
those are the versions of OSX, 10.1.3 is the current one, and we are assuiming 10.2 will be the next one

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Aaron
Geek Larva

Posts: 23
From: University of Iowa
Registered: Jan 2002

posted March 12, 2002 20:36     Click Here to See the Profile for Aaron     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by The Lama:
those are the versions of OSX, 10.1.3 is the current one, and we are assuiming 10.2 will be the next one


Well not entirely assuming... I have seen 10.2 6b14 and will be mailed an Apple Seed CD probibly in a month or two. Among new features in 10.2 are the return of spring loaded folders (audiable cheer), speed enhancements in scrolling and redrawing windows, and some other networking improvements and stability tweaks. Ok now for the newbie (glad to have you as a soon to be new convert) spring loaded folders are where if you want to drag a file into a subfolder all you do is drag it onto let say the HD image and hold it, after a second or two it pops open and let you do the same thing again... very nice feature for moving files around.

Aaron

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Bregalad
Super Geek

Posts: 203
From: Vancouver, BC, Canada
Registered: Jan 2002

posted March 12, 2002 20:52     Click Here to See the Profile for Bregalad     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I have a G4 tower and an iBook. Like you I tend to think of computing as something done at a desk. Most of my computing IS done at a desk, but wireless mobility is nice.

Since you are a gamer I can't recommend a low horsepower Mac. The iBook is a nice little machine, but it doesn't have what it takes for fps type games.

So your choices become PowerMac, iMac or PowerBook G4 (TiBook). The new iMac isn't a notebook, but it's easy to move from one desk to another.

Last year's PowerMac will deliver better frame rates than this year's iMac and, if you've already got a usable monitor, will cost the same or less. The tower gives you the option of popping in a better video card to give your games that extra kick.

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Snaggy
Moderator

Posts: 1399
From: Canada
Registered: Jan 2000

posted March 12, 2002 22:56     Click Here to See the Profile for Snaggy   Click Here to Email Snaggy     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
LOL!!! Right on GameGod!

Bregalad: A tower is a good suggestion, but I have the sneaky suspicion GG wants the cool look of a new imac.... although a dual G4 would be sweet.

I'm not sure you need the portablilty of a 'book. Remember you'd also need an airport base station and airport card for true wireless.... that will set you back another $600 or so.

There is a neat new case for the iMac now though! http://www.willowdesign.com/NL-36.html

Oh, GG, we're all sort of newbies with OSX... it's new and quite the change, but it's really super cool, and i get more and more impressed with it as time goes by.

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omega996
Newbie

Posts: 8
From: brea, ca
Registered: Mar 2002

posted March 13, 2002 09:53     Click Here to See the Profile for omega996   Click Here to Email omega996     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by GameGod:
Hey,
I've finally decided, to put my Windows comp00ter back in the box and stuff it in my closet. Now I am going onto bigger, better things... the new iMac (or iBook, I'll get to this later)
I'm sick and tired of my Hewlett Packard, and I'm ready to take Snaggy's advice, and earn tons of money for a iMac/iBook w/ iPod, But... I am not so sure which to get, and what I should know before I purchase it.
I want to be free and wireless, but Im not so used to being away from my desktop computer. I want to get the iBook to bring on trips, but I want my desk to have an actual purpose other than storing things. Which one should I get?
Also, what should I know about Apple before I make my purchase in a few months or so, I have hardly any Apple experience, only a few seconds, cause Snaggy and Nitrozac used to kick me outta their "working chair" if I came close to their computers... buut Nitrozac let me use her ol' iBook after a while yay nitro!
Anyways, what should this MacNewbie know before he goes to the Lightside? and Which one should I get?


I replaced a peecee desktop with a Powerbook G4/400 last february. no regrets. i think you could get by with just the iBook, especially if you invest in a few peripherals to keep on your desk (full-size keyboard and maus, largish CRT monitor, airport, and maybe an external Firewire drive or two). I got an apple pro keyboard, a logitech wheel maus, and a 7200RPM firewire drive. i boot off the firewire drive when at home, so i can keep games and several GBs of MP3s and quicktime movies off of my laptop.
just my $0.02USD, but i think you could get away with the iBook. the G3 isn't even a bad processor, but i secretly think sometimes that Apple has done something to OS X v.10.1 to make it slower on the G3, so people will be forced to upgrade to G4s. i dunno. i'm paranoid anyway...

so, er, yeah, back to the topic - go with the iBook. max the ram, and pick up a few peripherals, i think you'll be happy...

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omega996
Newbie

Posts: 8
From: brea, ca
Registered: Mar 2002

posted March 13, 2002 09:58     Click Here to See the Profile for omega996   Click Here to Email omega996     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Bregalad:
I have a G4 tower and an iBook. Like you I tend to think of computing as something done at a desk. Most of my computing IS done at a desk, but wireless mobility is nice.


Since you are a gamer I can't recommend a low horsepower Mac. The iBook is a nice little machine, but it doesn't have what it takes for fps type games.


So your choices become PowerMac, iMac or PowerBook G4 (TiBook). The new iMac isn't a notebook, but it's easy to move from one desk to another.


Last year's PowerMac will deliver better frame rates than this year's iMac and, if you've already got a usable monitor, will cost the same or less. The tower gives you the option of popping in a better video card to give your games that extra kick.



good point - i dunno about the pb g4 for a game machine, though. the newer ones are better than my g4/400, but i think if i were going to buy a mac to play games on, a pmac would be it. can't beat the ability to replace the graphics accelerator when something new and better comes along...

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GameGod
Geek-in-Training

Posts: 39
From: Gamerz World, Canada
Registered: Jan 2001

posted March 13, 2002 10:04     Click Here to See the Profile for GameGod   Click Here to Email GameGod     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
This isn't fair, lol
I love the idea of the wireless internet (so I don't have to keep worrying about pulling the cord out)
Im a gamer, but not much of a computer gamer anymore, I only choose one or 2 of those major games (Diablo 2 Expansion Pack)
but I want the iBook just for its portability, because I usually get stuck with my mom's DELL laptop, and thats not good at all :/.
Sometimes I feel like working at several places around my house, I could even bring the iBook to my highschool because our education program now requires more computers than what we have, and I'd rather not wait for one and use one I'm familiar with.
but with the iMac, I think of it as newer and up to date, so in that case in my mind... Better.
I'm so confused
iBook or iMac, that is the question...

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Zwilnik
Alpha Geek

Posts: 291
From: London, UK
Registered: Dec 2000

posted March 13, 2002 11:04     Click Here to See the Profile for Zwilnik     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
If it's your only Mac, then I'd go for the iMac G4 with the Superdrive. Use the superdrive to make lots of money turning people's home movies into DVDs for them and use the profit to buy yourself an iBook.
At the moment, there's a temporary niche market for people who have Macs with superdrives to turn video into DVD for people. At least until everyone has one
(saying 'but not everyone needs DVDs of their videos' isn't an argument btw. *everyone* needs their old home movies turning into a DVD. Even if it's just to keep them safe )

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GameGod
Geek-in-Training

Posts: 39
From: Gamerz World, Canada
Registered: Jan 2001

posted March 13, 2002 11:35     Click Here to See the Profile for GameGod   Click Here to Email GameGod     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Dude! Thats the most amazing idea!
I have some questions though..:
1) Who is providing the service?
2) How much are they charging for a DVD
3) What programs are needed?
4) How long does it take to burn 1 DVD?

Could I do the same with a iBook?
What kind of customers would buy the idea? like, families?

More details please

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Zwilnik
Alpha Geek

Posts: 291
From: London, UK
Registered: Dec 2000

posted March 13, 2002 11:54     Click Here to See the Profile for Zwilnik     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I've not seen anyone specifically providing the service yet (other than the usual specialist video/film production companies, who all got G4 towers with the superdrive when it first came out). I'd expect that anyone doing this at a professional level at the moment would be charging a lot of money.
All the programs you need to burn the DVD are provided with the iMac (ie iMovie and iDVD). However, if you want to transfer video from non-DV sources (like VHS), invest another $400 or so in a VHS-Firewire box like the Formac Studio.
Supposedly (I haven't got my new iMac yet), it takes about 2x the length of the movie to burn the DVD. That's probably your biggest cost. So to create a DVD from a half hour home movie will take from 1 1/2 to 2 hours (1/2 hour or so to read the movie in, 1 hour to burn it), so any costings you do need to take that into account.

Theoretically, you could do the same with an iBook and an external DVD writer, but you would have to fork out for Apple's DVD Studio Pro as iDVD only comes with (and works with) Macs with internal Superdrives. The iMac also has the advantage of the larger hard drive and the G4 (which iDVD needs to do the compression and makes a big difference in the DVD production speed)

With the DVD blank media only being around $5 each from Apple, you could easily charge a reasonable $50 for a half hour home movie to be transfered onto a DVD, with extra 'options' like pre-editing in iMovie or creating chapter markers etc. costing more. Especially nice if you can present it in a DVD case with a nicely printed sleeve (you can buy blank DVD cases from various suppliers). Presentation and making the customer feel like they're getting something special would be the key of course
Ideally, have a look around your local area to see if anyone's doing film to video or video conversion (like Beta to VHS) and see what prices they're charging (Don't mention what you're planning to do of course )

Your probable customer base would be families wanting their wedding, christening, birthday etc. videos on a nice *safe* DVD (especially if you can burn off copies at $10- $25 a shot for the relatives). You might also be able to link up with someone who does wedding videos professionally, so that they can give their customers the option of their wedding video on a DVD as well (make it an exclusive deal with one of them, preferably a well known expert one, so that the deal benefits them too).

Don't expect the business to last forever though. Give it a year or so, and everyone will have worked out how easy it is

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Nitrozac
Moderator

Posts: 411
From:
Registered: Dec 1999

posted March 13, 2002 12:12     Click Here to See the Profile for Nitrozac   Click Here to Email Nitrozac     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
GG! That's so cool! I'm so happy for you, *eyes mist up* you're growing up! *sniff*!

ok, 'nuff a that! So, having both iMac and iBook would be ideal. So, which to get first? If you could take your iBook to school, and on trips, I'm thinking that would be better. I use my iBook all the time for a change, I'll go on the couch and use it, or before going to sleep, sometimes I'll take it outside, and on errands involving printing posters. You'll need portability. Also, in your home business, you can take your iBook with you on jobs, transfer files on the spot, etc. Plus, it looks impressive I'd go for the new iBooks, I mean, why not go for it? The iPod is super cool, but, maybe you should opt for a DV camera, so you can film movies on the spot (another money making option). Remember that movie I have of you at a family dinner? Those were good times.

This is going to be so much fun! Spaceman Spiff is a couple of years older than you, and he has a tiBook and an iPod by doing what you're going to do. He fixes computer problems for people. Spiff, got any advice for the young lad?

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Zwilnik
Alpha Geek

Posts: 291
From: London, UK
Registered: Dec 2000

posted March 13, 2002 12:19     Click Here to See the Profile for Zwilnik     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Ah, you didn't mention you were going to do 'computer fixing' as your money earner GG

With that in mind, I agree with Nitrozac. The iBook means you can take your tools (test progs, disk images etc.) to your clients, rather than them having to come to you.

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GameGod
Geek-in-Training

Posts: 39
From: Gamerz World, Canada
Registered: Jan 2001

posted March 13, 2002 12:31     Click Here to See the Profile for GameGod   Click Here to Email GameGod     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
woah woah woah, lol
Remember, I'm a mac newbie
I won't know how to fix anything
Basically Im focusing on starting the home business (and with an idea as big as this... I think it'll work ) I want to know which DVD burner will burn faster? Because in this speed is key, and I want to make my clients happy with speed.
And within a year or so,after the business is well known in my small town, I will move on to Ottawa,and work through the newspaper and mail. Big City=Big Bucks

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Zwilnik
Alpha Geek

Posts: 291
From: London, UK
Registered: Dec 2000

posted March 13, 2002 13:55     Click Here to See the Profile for Zwilnik     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
If you're going the DVD route, the iMac is the only logical choice (apart from a G4 Tower with Superdrive, but that's a *lot* more expensive).
2x the length of the movie is about as fast as you'll get at the moment (the burner speed isn't the issue, the 2x is mostly the time it takes to compress the movie into mpeg format, something which uses the G4 heavily).
Although Big City = Big competition too

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GameGod
Geek-in-Training

Posts: 39
From: Gamerz World, Canada
Registered: Jan 2001

posted March 13, 2002 17:16     Click Here to See the Profile for GameGod   Click Here to Email GameGod     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
So.. bottom line, get an iMac with how much RAM?

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Buffy
Super Geek

Posts: 151
From: somewhere over the rainbow
Registered: Aug 98

posted March 13, 2002 17:36     Click Here to See the Profile for Buffy     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
as much Ram as you can afford!!!

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Snaggy
Moderator

Posts: 1399
From: Canada
Registered: Jan 2000

posted March 13, 2002 17:39     Click Here to See the Profile for Snaggy   Click Here to Email Snaggy     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
GG, join us in #joyoftech on slashnet... (i can't get into undernet today)

---------
OT,
Hi Buffers!

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DesktopX
Geek Larva

Posts: 23
From: Victoria, BC, Canada
Registered: Jan 2001

posted March 13, 2002 19:43     Click Here to See the Profile for DesktopX   Click Here to Email DesktopX     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I'm joining the club too GameGod. Looking to buy an iBook (I can only dream for a TiBook) sometime in the next few months. Snaggy should create a new class, "PC2Apple Switchee".

But just throwing my 2 cents into the whole switching/differences thing, it's hard to look past the price factor when you're used to building your own computers. But when I take a step back, and look at the differences in the long run, it makes me want it even more.

Now, if you'll excuse me, I have some drool to mop up

------------------
:: DX

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iballoondesign
Alpha Geek

Posts: 283
From: Midland, TX
Registered: Dec 2001

posted March 13, 2002 20:15     Click Here to See the Profile for iballoondesign   Click Here to Email iballoondesign     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I was original Mac user in 1982 until my dad switch to Windows. I was such a clueless and use windows until in near end of college years. After my experience take lot of different computer systems. I made my mind that I want to be Mac again. Therefore, I got iBook (500). I felt better.

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DigitalBill
Alpha Geek

Posts: 254
From: The TiBook(!), on the wireless LAN, to the BaseStation, through the router, nothin' but Net! (around South Florida)
Registered: Jan 2001

posted March 13, 2002 21:15     Click Here to See the Profile for DigitalBill   Click Here to Email DigitalBill     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Hey GG! Glad you've seen the light.

I'll tell you this: I live the portable lifestyle out of my "old" TiBook 500, and use it as a dekstop replacement. Never looked back. Don't need a desk.

I'd recommend an iBook (probably the 14" if you'll be using it a lot)... and you can always mirror on an external VGA, and hook up USB Keyboard, scrolly mouse & joysticks if you want to sit at the desk.

The new iMacs are beautiful, but for a young lad's first, an iBook, with LOTSA RAM...

Oh, and drop me an email if you want... I can poke around in the demo pile at the store and maybe score you a deal... Just ask ARJ/Roceal...

=bd

He's seen the light! Praise Steves! He's seen the light!

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Sir Aureus
Geek-in-Training

Posts: 36
From: wherever my pismo happens to be
Registered: Feb 2002

posted March 14, 2002 11:59     Click Here to See the Profile for Sir Aureus     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
just one thing: don't buy Apple RAM. it's expensive as hell (my one peeve with Apple)... either get the computer through MacMall (catalog/website) to get extra RAM free, or buy the RAM seperately. It's a pain to install on an iMac or an iBook, but it's better than paying about four times as much for the same chips. Also, I may be wrong but I think the geniuses at your local Apple Store will install the RAM for you, free of charge.

------------------
I'm egotistical and I'm
proud of it!

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GameGod
Geek-in-Training

Posts: 39
From: Gamerz World, Canada
Registered: Jan 2001

posted March 14, 2002 13:07     Click Here to See the Profile for GameGod   Click Here to Email GameGod     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I just had a little problem...
I went to a local Mac retailer, and she said with the iMac superdrive for the DVD business, I'll need an external DVD burner because "it doesn't come with it" or "it really sucks".

And How exactly will I get the home movies onto my computer to burn them? This sucks :/
I don't have a camcorder, or digicam. Do I use a VCR that attaches to the Mac?

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Zwilnik
Alpha Geek

Posts: 291
From: London, UK
Registered: Dec 2000

posted March 14, 2002 13:53     Click Here to See the Profile for Zwilnik     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
What sort of Mac Retailer was this ? The high end version of the iMac G4 (the currently available 800 Mhz one), comes with a DVD Superdrive which will burn DVDs playable in normal DVD players.

It sounds like she's a Comp USA/ Best Buy idiot (sorry to any of the few non idiots working in Comp USA, Best Buy, PC World, John Lewis' etc., but the greater majority of your colleagues stupidity tends to wash out any individuals who actually know what they're talking about).

Here's Apple's page about the iMac, clicking on the Superdrive tag will tell you about the built in Superdrive...

http://www.apple.com/imac/

To use non-firewire video sources, you'll need to get something like the Formac Studio box, which converts analogue video signals (like your VCR outputs) into digital data that connects to your iMac through Firewire...

http://www.formac.co.uk/html/sets/studio_set.htm

while I'm loathe to recommend Formac (their lack of support for their previous products is almost criminal), the Studio is well recommended (I know a few people who use it).


The Superdrive equipped iMac should will easily cope with transferring video to DVD.

oh, and feel free to email me with any questions you have (Nitrozac & Snaggy have my email address).

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Jade Dragon
Geek Larva

Posts: 26
From: Montreal, Canada
Registered: Mar 2002

posted March 14, 2002 22:33     Click Here to See the Profile for Jade Dragon   Click Here to Email Jade Dragon     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Hi there,

I bought an original Bondi Blue iMac the day they came out -- loved it to death! I loved the all in one design and the relative portability with the built-in handle. Heck, I even lugged that baby with me on a Via Rail trip from Montreal to Halifax in the triple bedroom, disguised in a heavy blanket and some rope. (This because I knew some Via techs use to force you to haul video monitors only in boxes and only in cargo. Ha! Like I would trust someone in carge not to toss my baby around!)

Since we had an electrical plug in the bedroom suite, we actually spent the 18 hour trip mostly tag-team playing various computer games, while the other slept.

From there I graduated to an original Blue iBook, again, the day they were launched. It was a bit hard to part with my old iMac, but it went to a good home and once I got used to the differences, I loved it even more than my iMac -- again because of the portability. At the time, my design business was just starting up and being able to take my "web studio" on the road with me and to show potential clients my work, or even to show works-in-progress to current clients became a godsend and a real timesaver, as we could make changes right on the spot.

Last year, I managed to pick up a then top-of-the-line 500Mz Titanium G4 Powerbook. Wow! This baby totally blew the others out of the water... I honestly don't think I could ever go back to a desktop model ever again. I originally had the house and studio wired for ethernet, but shortly after getting the TiBook, we set up an Airport network and the resulting freedom to move around has been very "liberating". There is nothing like working outside on my TiBook during the first really warm days of spring, watching my cats munch on the first blades of grass... or even working late at night from bed, while half watching an old movie.

I would really recommend an iBook if you can afford it, and max it out with as much RAM as you can afford. Once you've saved up, you could always upgrade to a TiBook and sell your old baby. It's not as hard as you would think to sell an older model Apple laptop. In fact, you might want to head over to ehMac -- it's a Canadian Mac user group that I belong to. They have a good "Trading Post" area where a lot of buying and selling goes on. You might find a good deal if you can't spring for something new... also a good place to put your old stuff up for sale and pretty well all the prices are in Canadian dollars since it's mostly Canadians on the boards. It's a very friendly place, so you can also ask their advice on the matter and I know they will all share their experiences with you...

http://www.ehmac.com

Yes, you will always find that there is a transition period from "Dark to Light" and again, one from desktop to laptop, but once you make the jump, you'll start wondering how you ever got by in the past!

Hope my two cents might help you with your big decision of iMac VS iBook, but at least you've already made the right decision regarding your new choice of platform. I really think that you'll have no real regrets once you get over the initial transfer stage -- Macs get in your blood!

Good luck!

------------------
~ Jade Dragon

Proud member of ehMac,
Canada's Mac Community!
http://www.ehmac.com

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MBoprey
Geek

Posts: 84
From: In the crevices of my iBook
Registered: Mar 2002

posted March 18, 2002 18:31     Click Here to See the Profile for MBoprey   Click Here to Email MBoprey     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I'll agree with omega996. The iBook is truely a great machine. I love it to pieces. I use it every day and every night. Besides using a PC with XP installed, the iBook with OS 10.1.3 is perfect. I think I may love my mac more than my desktop rig.

I'm not a serious computer gamer, so I'm not missing out on much! Anyway... the iBook has enough for you probably if you're just a console gamer. I've got the 500Mhz series, but hey -- the Megahertz myth won't slow me down.

Go with the iBook. You'll be happy. I know I am.

And about OS 10.2... sounds interesting. I like the spring loaded folders. OS X could use some improvements other than that as well.. just little things here and there.

: )

------------------
Msb

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