Instead, I was in Austin playing... That is researching the Trilogy Geek Culture!

I have many more questions for you, if you are interested. However, none seem to be coming to mind just now.

Thanks again.

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Saintonge

quote:

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I have a question, what differentiates a geek from a brilliant mind or from a nerd?

[/B]

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I think the reason for this is that here in Britain, the word just isn't used at all - it's an American word. 'Nerd' gets used a bit, but not much, and I'm damned if I'm going to be called that. There really isn't a 'geek' equivalent in Britain at all. Having said that, I suppose that I fit most of the geek characteristics, from what I can understand.(which isn't much. I'm interested in computers, science, maths, books, writing, history etc. But is there something outside of interests that is used to describe a geek?)

I am sure that ther must be some thing in the Brittish vocabulary to describe these characteristics.

I am sooooo glad that you are out of the geek closet! I am truely thrilled to find people who act with confidence and admit their true nature!

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Originally posted by Undesirable Alien:
I feel quite uncomfortable being called a geek.

I think the reason for this is that here in Britain, the word just isn't used at all - it's an American word.... There really isn't a 'geek' equivalent in Britain at all.

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Merriam-Webster has a pretty good, concise definition, imo.

2 : a person often of an intellectual bent who is disapproved of

Geeks vs nerds.. geeks are basically nerds with social skills. Note of course that there are many species of geek.. not just computer-oriented, though those are very common (like me).

So let's make a venn diagram. Except I don't want to draw it in ascii so draw it in your imagination. Everyone is the biggest cloud. Inside is a cloud of geeks. I would put nerds inside geeks or geeks inside nerds, except you can't really be both.. so they are separate, and might intersect some, let's be liberal here. Brilliant minds intersect both nerds and geeks but there are still brilliant minds who are neither nerds or geeks..

Let's see, now where am I.. oh yes, more about geek. There are some good definitions out there, check the Jargon file and such.

The word geek is really a lot like the n-word except it's not as offensive in general. Originally it was used by outsiders as a negative term for a group, but eventually the group took it for itself and made it into a positive term. So it's alright, generally, for a black person to call another the n-word, and for a geek to call another a geek, because it's internal, etc..

It's also nice, for those in high school and such, when some jock comes around and sneers, "Geek!" the target can smile and say, "Thanks!" or something.. possibly quite disarming. Of course when you get into more of the real world, such simple pleasures are mostly lost =)

T0: just nod and smile, it's hard to deflate someone's dreamworld. not worth the trouble, usually.

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Yes, but you've got "boffin" and we don't. How well does that fit?

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Brilliant! I should have thought of that, it's a great word. I am now officially a boffin! & I stand proud. ;-)

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Originally posted by Migrant Programmer:
T0: just nod and smile, it's hard to deflate someone's dreamworld. not worth the trouble, usually.

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Dictionary.com reminds me that the word is probably derived from the German geck which in turn is derived from the Middle Low German gek, both meaning "fool".

Looking at all of this, plainly, "geek" was not a positive word, but when a group embraces a term, it's hard to make it hurt.

What's a boffin?

Blind Harper:
That's great way to look at it! In Shakespeare, fool was also a term of endearment.

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Corrections Officer,
Spelling Division

In Sir Arthur C. Clarke's Glide Path (a quasi-autobiographical novel about his expeirences with the ground-controlled approach team with the Royal Air Force), the scientists who designed the advanced radar system belonged to the boffin class. One possible derivation is a play on the word "Puffin". In the novel, it's mentioned that a puffin's eggs are tapered in such a way so that if they are pushed, they tend to roll back to the place they started. A Boffin's ideas are much the same; push them away, and they come back.

BTW, it's a very good novel. Lots of coming of age stuff, as well as a glance at other aspects of the geek. (FIDO--Fog, Intense, Dispersal Of) is a good example of an outlandish solution to a nasty problem. Lots of fog? Try a *huge* fire surrounding the runway. You'll have a clear area above the flames right away. (You'll also have one hell of an updraft, but that's for the next revision...)

My first year in ROTC, one of the upperclassmen who was responsible for our training told us that on our next quiz, he was going to offer an extra-credit point to anyone who could identify the spell-out of FIDO. So before the next quiz I came upon the idea of finding an acronym dictionary. After some considerable effort, I finally found one buried deep in one of the libraries' stacks. I found the fog-related spell-out, among a couple others, and since I knew of this guy's fondness for WWII trivia, I used that for the answer. He gave me half of a point because it was a legitimate spell-out, but not the one he was looking for. He wanted to convey the idea of knowing when you've expended too much effort on something and should consider sacrificing your current task so that your other responsibilities don't suffer -- the spell-out he wanted was "forget it and drive on". Considering the effort I put into trying to get this one lousy extra-credit point, I had to smile at the irony.

Lots of fog? Try a *huge* fire surrounding the runway. You'll have a clear area above the flames right away. (You'll also have one hell of an updraft, but that's for the next revision...)

Another technique that's been tried from time-to-time is to fly an airplane in from another (not-fogged-in) airfield and drop dry ice over the fogged-in airfield; the fog precipitates out.

The term 'geek' is a fairly recent one and only dates back to the 19th century. It may or may not be derived from the german word 'geck', meaning 'fool', which dates back at least as far as the 16th century.

In the early to mid-1800's, 'Geek' was the carnival worker's name for the people who were considered the lowest level of entertainer. These people were usually alcoholics, drug addicts, mentally handicapped¹ or otherwise incapable of doing any other job. For lack of options, they resorted to performing disgusting and bizarre tricks such as biting the heads off of live chickens and snakes, self mutilation, eating things which ought not be eaten (don't ask)² and so forth. Put simply, a geek was a person who was so low in social standing that they would do anything for a living, no mater how disgusting.

In 1946, William Gresham wrote a novel about carnival life called "Nightmare Alley" which sold extremely well and was made into a film in 1947. The novel and movie popularized the term and brought it into common usage where, of course, it was immediately applied by school students to those viewed as being on the lowest social rung: The kids with the pocket protectors and slide rules. Though they had previously been called'nerds'³, the term 'geek' was a better 'fit'⁴ as insults go, so it stuck.

Over time, the original meaning of the term has been disassociated from the intended targets. In the last two decades in particular, it has become increasingly obvious that knowledge of science, math and other 'geeky' areas of interest is required in order to obtain a position anywhere but in the lowest level of social order. The result is that being called a geek may still be considered a mild insult, it no longer holds the meaning it once had and can, in fact, be viewed as a compliment.

Now if you'll pardon me, I'm going to go visit the people on the lowest social level in our society and have them ask me if I want fries with that.

¹How politically correct of me
²I said don't ask!
³No, I'm not explaining where that came from
⁴I'm using way too many single quotes... where will the madness end

(I have spared political correctness from what follows cause Im lazy and I think you're big girls and boys)

EDIT: the term was censored automatically as you can see... but I hope you can figure out what it was.

A good example lies in african american slang; "****** " is a derrogitory term for most african-americans. However it is often if not always excepted "african-american"-"african-americans" but not "african-american"-"White (m/f)" or other minority groups. In the same sense if another 'geek' calles me a geek or nerd I don't mind as I know that that person holds 'geeks' in a positive light and he doesn't mean any harm by saying that...

Yea, that's what I had to say...
I'm done now.

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~Weirdo~
|Home Page|My Geek Code|Post Disclaimer|Bill of Rights

"Beware the System Administrator, for he is quick to anger and hath no need for subtlety."

Sorry I was (and still am) going on my second day w/o sleep.

*demonic laugh*

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Originally posted by Petethelate:
Re T-0's comment:

"Beware the System Administrator, for he is quick to anger and hath no need for subtlety."

Ptl

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I will never apologise for anything I say that someones takes the wrong way. Perception is niether my fault nor my responsibility.

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I agree fully. However, I think pete was just quoting, and did not really mean that you were aiming piss of the sysadmin.

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Originally posted by RTO Geek C36R:
Hey, all I was doing was having an intelligent conversation on how the meaning of the word geek changes based on who is using the word and in what way.

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On the average, this is a pretty highbrow bunch around here.  You are going to get more than your typical dose of running jokes, obscure references, and multiple entendres.  If you are going to take everything you don't understand right away as either a threat or an insult, you are going to give yourself stress disorders in a hurry.

Weirdo:
Why aren't you sleeping?? Go get some rest!!!

BTW, PTL was referring to Tau Zero's comment, not RTO's.
Re= regarding
T-0= Tau Zero

People need to not be so defensive.

Yes, I was referring to Tau Zero's statement (occasionally abbreviated at T-0, thus Re T-0.) After a weekend of not typing, I didn't want to try Re: Tau Zero until my fingers got warmed up.

And yes, it was a play on the Tolkein comment. BTW, I agree with RTO's comment. I might not punch out a non-geek who called me a geek, but I might change his root directory to /dev/null.

"I think. I think I am. Therefore, I am... I think."

Petethequipster

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Originally posted by RTO Geek C36R:
Don't I feel just absolutely foolish!

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<knows petetheancient will get that one, but wonders how many others will>

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Originally posted by RTO Geek C36R:
What it is is that I have this really bad habit of throwing my views on life out when given the opportunity to do so...you just gave me an opening, thats all.

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Well gee, we don't know anybody like that here, do we? -steps away, and begins to whistle innocently-

Epon: Sleep is for the weak...
...or is that weekends... hell if i remember.

Still up! WHOOHOO...

"If you where me then I'd be you, and I'd use _your_ body to get to the top! You can't stop me no matter who you are!"