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» The Geek Culture Forums   » News, Reviews, Views!   » Our stupid lives   » The Verdict is IN! (Page 1)

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Author Topic: The Verdict is IN!
Colonel Panic
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Icon 4 posted July 31, 2007 20:30      Profile for Colonel Panic         Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Some of you will recall that I was called for Jury Duty this month.

The case was a murder trial. Mom killed her 10-month old baby and beat another two of her children.

She claims the baby fell out of bed five times very quickly.

The Doctor said, "No way."

The physical evidence was grisly.

The defendant's own Mother testified against her.

The defense fought vigorously to keep Grandmas off the Jury.

It was a very emotional, gut-wrenching experience. Some people just don't understand what a precious gift that God has given them.

Verdict took fifteen minutes.

http://www.wsbt.com/news/local/8747747.html

Who says the Colonel can't get along?

CP

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Snaggy

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Icon 9 posted July 31, 2007 21:07      Profile for Snaggy   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
That is sad stuff. [Frown]

does the jury have any sway in the sentencing?

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TMBWITW,PB

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Icon 1 posted July 31, 2007 21:56      Profile for TMBWITW,PB     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Oh my God. I can't even imagine sitting through a trial like that. I suppose technically I would be one of her "peers" as a mother of a young child, but I don't think I could be objective. I bet you're glad it's over.

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"Beauty is in the eye of the beholder and it may be necessary from time to time to give a stupid or misinformed beholder a black eye."
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Highlie
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Icon 1 posted August 01, 2007 05:43      Profile for business attire     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
died of head injuries?

something tells me she was slapping the baby because it wouldn't stop crying, a lot like some people beat dogs or give them shock collars because "they just won't stop barking."

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Colonel Panic
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Icon 1 posted August 01, 2007 09:34      Profile for Colonel Panic         Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
I am very glad it is over.

There were a lot of special ed teachers who were dismissed by the judge because many of their students are imparied because of abuse (physically or emotionally) or are abused because they have impairments.

A few Moms simply declared, "No way will I be fair. That is an awful thing she is accused of."

A jury is there to determine the facts. And the facts overwhelmingly supported the charges of Murder One, Child Endangerment One, and Child Endangerment Three (my terms).

If there is any consolation, Mom won't be around to hurt or kill any of her other children.

I think the Jury knew the verdict before the Foreman was selected. The evidence was overwhelming.

BA, yes testimony was presented that supports your suspicion. Hugs work better to quiet a baby. Food and changing diapers work, too. Sometimes a teething ring is required.

In Michigan, the judge decides the sentence. Murder one in this state carries mandatory life without parole.

The taxpayers will house her, guard her, feed her, cloth her and provide her health care until she dies. And then we will bury her.

Her children are another story.

It tore me up, and still does.

CP

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DoctorWho

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Icon 1 posted August 02, 2007 12:18      Profile for DoctorWho     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
It's stories like these that almost make me wish we did not live in a somewhat civilized society because a small part of me feels like she should get what she did to her 10 month old. Of course if that was done to her, our society would be no better than her and we might as well be living in the dark ages. So I am grateful that she will be put away for life and not get what she dished out.

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stevenback7
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Icon 1 posted August 02, 2007 12:48      Profile for stevenback7   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
I would like to know how many Americans have been sentanced to death and how many have been sentanced to life in prison?

I personally think that the death sentance is stupid and shouldn't exist. Which is why I like the dutch legal system better for example.

quote:
Since 1878, after the abolition of the death penalty in the Netherlands, life imprisonment has almost always meant exactly that: the prisoner will serve their term in prison until they die. Though the prisoner can appeal for parole, it must be granted by Royal Decree. An appeal for parole is almost never successful; since the 1940s, only two people have successfully filed a request for clemency, both being terminally ill. Since 1945, 32 criminals have been sentenced to life imprisonment (excluding war criminals).


Thats only 32 people in 62 years in a country of aprox. 16 million.

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Highlie
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Icon 1 posted August 02, 2007 16:24      Profile for business attire     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
sentence.
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GrumpySteen

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Icon 1 posted August 02, 2007 19:04      Profile for GrumpySteen     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by stevenback7:
I would like to know how many Americans have been sentanced to death and how many have been sentanced to life in prison?

I personally think that the death sentance is stupid and shouldn't exist. Which is why I like the dutch legal system better for example.

quote:
Since 1878, after the abolition of the death penalty in the Netherlands, life imprisonment has almost always meant exactly that: the prisoner will serve their term in prison until they die. Though the prisoner can appeal for parole, it must be granted by Royal Decree. An appeal for parole is almost never successful; since the 1940s, only two people have successfully filed a request for clemency, both being terminally ill. Since 1945, 32 criminals have been sentenced to life imprisonment (excluding war criminals).


Thats only 32 people in 62 years in a country of aprox. 16 million.
From this page regarding those excluded war criminals:

152 people were sentenced to death of whom 39 were actually executed.
...
The last executions in the Netherlands took place on March 21 1952


Statistics always look better when you leave out the crap you don't like [Roll Eyes]

Then there's the fact that the number of prisoners per capita in the Netherlands is second only to the UK in all of western Europe.

But hey... only 32 (*mumblemumble* plus 113 *mumble*) life sentences. Everyone else gets out at some point. Yay!

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stevenback7
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Icon 1 posted August 02, 2007 19:24      Profile for stevenback7   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Steen: What about my question though? You respond with facts but your facts only try and cover up my question. Sounds a little American to me.

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GrumpySteen

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Icon 1 posted August 02, 2007 22:06      Profile for GrumpySteen     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
The information is on the internet and freely available. Look it up and improve your rather sucky research skills, eh?

*edit*

Oh... and the US doesn't have a monopoly on pointing out that you take all your facts from wikipedia and never double check them. It's been pointed out by others. I'm not even the first to have done so.

I also don't support the death penalty and have said so in the past, so cast your aspersions some other direction. They still make you sound like an idiot who doesn't know what he's talking about.

What I sound like is someone who's tired of seeing erroneous and incomplete information posted by people because it sounds like it supports their viewpoint (at least until the rest of the information comes out). At one time, these forums actually had halfway decent intelligent conversation. Lately it's like half the posters have turned into fucking PR flaks who are trying to spin everything one direction or another to make their point.
</rant>

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Highlie
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Icon 1 posted August 03, 2007 06:06      Profile for business attire     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Steen didn't cover up your question. He didn't say a damn word about American imprisonment or death sentences. He was correcting your wrong information.

And I agree that you need to find a little bit more research before you open your yap. This isn't your high school debate class. You're not going to get anywhere on the "A for effort" system here. You're just going to get reamed for being a tool.

To answer your question, kind of, the statistic in 2004 was that almost 10% (1 in 11) of United States' inmates were sentenced to life. And yes, the number of life sentences in the US is higher than any other country, but you're citing your erroneous "32" as a phenomenal number, when its easy to forget that the population of New York City alone is way more than the population of that one country.

If you took the percentage of the population in the Netherlands on a life sentence (113 + 32 / 16,000,000) and then applied that percentage to the United States, you'd need 2729 US inmates with life sentences to be comparable. I'm sure that there is more than that, and I don't care to look it up, but you have to learn to look at things evenly. You can't really expect America to only have 32 inmates with life sentences can you? That would be STUPID.

You also have to look at the laws of the two countries. Again, I can't be bothered to look these up myself, but what crimes are considered an offense worthy of a life sentence in the Netherlands? Is it only murder? Rape? Maybe their laws are a lot easier on the people than ours are? There is a lot to take into consideration.

Also, a life sentence here doesn't always mean you die in prison. The average "life sentence" in the US is 29 years. I haven't researched this, but I think most people live longer than that.

And since 1976 there have been less than 1100 executions. I'm not sure of the exact number.

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stevenback7
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Icon 1 posted August 03, 2007 06:33      Profile for stevenback7   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Steen: You talk about not using one source, about using all the information. All you just did was post some facts from a biased source. And you say my researching skills are crap. Yes, the Wikipedia entry left out war criminals. But I'm pretty sure they are left out of most of the American tallies as well.

BA: Do you think I'm stupid? Do you think I don't know that you can't compare two countries with different populations evenly with just looking at the raw data (Yes I used the term “Raw” again). Does it look like in my post that I was comparing the two countries? I was just asking if anyone knew a proper source for life imprisonment and death sentences figures for America. And then I pointed out a countries legal system that has a much better way of dealing with people who committed a crime then America. But you did justify the direction I was taking my earlier post by agreeing with me that America puts people way to easily on the death sentence list and puts people in prison for life way to easily.

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Highlie
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Icon 1 posted August 03, 2007 06:56      Profile for business attire     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Do you think I'm stupid?
yes.
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Ashitaka

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Icon 1 posted August 03, 2007 07:03      Profile for Ashitaka     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by stevenback7:
Steen: You talk about not using one source, about using all the information. All you just did was post some facts from a biased source. And you say my researching skills are crap. Yes, the Wikipedia entry left out war criminals. But I'm pretty sure they are left out of most of the American tallies as well.

BA: Do you think I'm stupid? Do you think I don't know that you can't compare two countries with different populations evenly with just looking at the raw data (Yes I used the term “Raw” again). Does it look like in my post that I was comparing the two countries? I was just asking if anyone knew a proper source for life imprisonment and death sentences figures for America. And then I pointed out a countries legal system that has a much better way of dealing with people who committed a crime then America. But you did justify the direction I was taking my earlier post by agreeing with me that America puts people way to easily on the death sentence list and puts people in prison for life way to easily.

I don't think you can just look at the numbers and say america is too toughi n sentancing. Maybe the netherlands has even strighter sentancing and laws but just has a well behaved population with less crime.

This issue is too complex to be well argued here. One would need volumes of books to argue this well one way or the other.

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GrumpySteen

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Icon 1 posted August 03, 2007 07:29      Profile for GrumpySteen     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
stevenback7 wrote:
Steen: You talk about not using one source, about using all the information. All you just did was post some facts from a biased source.

I posted two numbers from one source which I verified with other sources. Even your beloved wikipedia backs up those numbers.

In other words, I did proper research before I said anything. You should try it sometime.

I was just asking if anyone knew a proper source for life imprisonment and death sentences figures for America.

Since you're too damned lazy to find sources for information:
Start here
Make sure you look at this page
Then take a look at this page too

This is not difficult information to find. We have whole goverment agencies dedicated to tracking it and making sure that it is available to the public.

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stevenback7
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Icon 1 posted August 03, 2007 08:21      Profile for stevenback7   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Steen: Thank you for those sources - Its all I wanted to know. I don't want an argument. I just wanted some information and wanted other people to think about the questions I asked. We clearly all have different opinions and I understand that you want to back your own goverment. Just like I support my goverments (Netherlands and Canada).

My opinion: Death penalty should be eliminated completly and the American legal system should look more closely at there European allies.

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Highlie
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Icon 1 posted August 03, 2007 08:33      Profile for business attire     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by stevenback7:
My opinion: Death penalty should be eliminated completly and the American legal system should look more closely at there European allies. (sic)

First, completely, their

Okay, second, lets relate this to you in something you might understand a little better. Have you ever done any babysitting? Would you rather babysit two kids (the Netherlands) or 17 kids (the US)? Our population is roughly 8 times larger.

If you were babysitting more kids, would you be able to control them all without being very strict and keeping all the kids in line? Or would you let them run all over the place breaking everything in sight and ruining the house? You have to punish the trouble makers and send them to their rooms, if only to get them out of the way so you can exert more energy on the other mongrels, not to mention it sets an example that you won't take any sass.

There are differences for a reason. What works for one country just plain and simple won't work for another than is 8 times its size. End of story.

Edit: also, get of your high horse and stop trouncing the American system. If you think your country is so God damned great, then why does everybody in Canada come to America to have surgery done? Because of the shitty health care and restricted government spending along with universal health insurance. Your country sucks just as much as ours, if not more, so stfu.

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Xanthine

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Icon 1 posted August 03, 2007 08:44      Profile for Xanthine     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Why are we even debating the death penalty?

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And it's one, two, three / On the wrong side of the lee / What were you meant for? / What were you meant for?
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Highlie
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Icon 1 posted August 03, 2007 08:49      Profile for business attire     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Because life sentences in the OP evolved into comparisons of life sentences and death penalty rates between countries.

And because as long as Steven is around making bad arguments based on opinion and erroneous information rather than fact; with spelling, grammar and logic that makes even his own mother doubt anything he says... I will be around to give him a hard time and argue back.

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drunkennewfiemidget
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Icon 1 posted August 03, 2007 09:21      Profile for drunkennewfiemidget     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by business attire:

Edit: also, get of your high horse and stop trouncing the American system. If you think your country is so God damned great, then why does everybody in Canada come to America to have surgery done? Because of the shitty health care and restricted government spending along with universal health insurance. Your country sucks just as much as ours, if not more, so stfu.

People go to the US for elective surgeries. If you need surgery for a life altering illness, you get it right away -- I'd know.

Our health care is much better than people will have you believe. Try watching Sicko, even.

Don't insult my country like that. The day my country is as bad or worse than the US, I'll move to fucking poland.

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Ashitaka

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Icon 1 posted August 03, 2007 09:28      Profile for Ashitaka     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
countries with universal health care

BA_________I found it very interesting how you complained about someones poor argument technique, and then argued using a superlative. NOt every canadian goes to america for surgery, even elective surgery.

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"If they're not gonna make a distinction between Muslims and violent extremists, then why should I take the time to distinguish between decent, fearful white people and racists?"

-Assif Mandvi

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Mac D
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Icon 1 posted August 03, 2007 09:37      Profile for Mac D     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by drunkennewfiemidget:

The day my country is as bad or worse than the US

 -

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Stereo

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Icon 2 posted August 03, 2007 09:54      Profile for Stereo     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
BA, you know how much I like you, but dear, you need to calm down a bit, and maybe offer a little apology, if only for this:
quote:
Originally posted by business attire:
Okay, second, lets relate this (...)

It should be let's, if I am not mistaken... When _insulting_ someone's grammar and spelling, please make sure your own post is perfect, or you look like a fool.

Then, I understand that Americans can get tired of having their system pointed at, especially for not-so-good reasons (if not downright bad ones), but you shouldn't reply by doing exactly the same.

So, Steven, please remember that USA's ideology and culture isn't the same as Europe's or Canada's; things that others may see as stupid/futile/whatever may be appear very normal and sound to them, and vice-versa; so make sure you don't attack their fundamental ideas when questionning their ways. And BA, please cut Steven some slack (I wouldn't be surprised if English isn't his first language), or at least, keep you attacks aimed at the real problem.

Please?

(I say that, and still I'm the first to enjoy a good flame war... [Embarrassed] )

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Galileo Galilei

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Xanthine

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Icon 1 posted August 03, 2007 10:03      Profile for Xanthine     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by business attire:
Because life sentences in the OP evolved into comparisons of life sentences and death penalty rates between countries.

I saw that, I'm just wondering why capital punishment even got dragged in when this isn't a captial case. There's a logical progression that I'm missing.

Does Michigan even have a death penalty?

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And it's one, two, three / On the wrong side of the lee / What were you meant for? / What were you meant for?
- The Decemberists

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