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Author Topic: Meat is Murder on the the Environment
Nitrozac

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Icon 6 posted July 19, 2007 20:37      Profile for Nitrozac   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
I'll bet you $100 that in a year or two at the most, the vegan diet is going to be all the rage. Not because human beings will evolve to become less cruel to all animals, I think humans are too barbaric for that. Vegan diets are going to be as cool as the iPhone is today because eating meat is responsible for a huge chunk of greenhouse gas emissions and global warming. Don't believe me? Check out this article from New Scientist. Then check out this website and make something yummy and vegan for dinner tonight!
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littlefish
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Icon 1 posted July 20, 2007 00:00      Profile for littlefish   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Define "all the rage". Because, according to some they already are all the rage. Even Steve is a vegan, and you can't get cooler than that.

I predict they will stay as cool as they are now. It's not like the AWDs are going away, or that US cars have european-like mileage.

Besides, by next year we'll all have wind/solar/fusion power anyway, so we can afford to be just as wasteful then as we were before. (if not more so).

Oh, and if you can come up with some useful metric to measure the "rageness" of the diet, I just might take that bet and put my money where my mouth is.

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GrumpySteen

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Icon 1 posted July 20, 2007 01:00      Profile for GrumpySteen     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Newscientist... the same site that brought us the gravity-defying Martian puddles

I predict that people will be as stupid about their diets as ever and continue eating meat, hydrogenated fats and other unhealthy foods. Coronary disease will remain the most common cause of death in the world. Diabetes will continue to run rampant in first world countries.

Not to be argumentative, but what makes you think that a country full of <expletive> who drive Hummers, trucks and other large vehicles with lousy fuel economy (usually with off-road tires that have never seen mud before, I might add) will suddenly begin to care about the environment enough to not eat their cheap, greasy, salty, nasty Burger King and McDonald's hamburgers for lunch?

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fs

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Icon 1 posted July 20, 2007 01:38      Profile for fs   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
I kind of have to agree with Steen. Over the past 17 years that I've been a vegetarian, a lot more veggie products designed to fill the niche meat products hold have come on the market. (Soy crumbles, sandwich slices, dogs, burgers, etc.) And usually at twice the price of the meat product. Vegan/vegetarianism will continue to gain in popularity, just like it has been, but I think mostly it will be due to more and more baby boomers desperately trying to reduce their fat and cholesterol intakes after having bypass surgery. My mom eats a lot less meat now than when I was growing up and my grandmother is always trying out vegetarian recipes, but they've also had nearly two decades of regular exposure to a vegetarian diet. They know about complementary proteins and where to find good vegetarian resources and what meat-substitute products are available and different ways to prepare tofu. That gives them a huge advantage over people that have spent 50 years on steak and potatoes and fried chicken and Sunday roast and bacon and eggs and Reuben sandwiches.

Of course, even a couple meat free days a week in most households would make an impact. It's amazing how many people can't conceive of a pasta dish without some kind of meat product (chicken, ground beef, meatballs, pork sausage, etc.) being involved. Or tacos with beans and rice instead of ground beef.

Having been a vegan, I don't see that going mainstream. It has gotten a lot easier to be vegetarian, but being vegan is still very difficult, even with soy milk and egg substitutes. It requires a much larger commitment to both DIY food preparation and reading ingredient labels. (It's amazing how many things they can sneak whey into.) A lot of Americans, especially, don't do those things.

The thing that annoys me most is making vegetarian/vegan (and other environmentally friendly) products cost so much more. The problem with making the environment trendy is it gets the associated price-tag. It makes no sense that tofu and hamburger should be the same price per pound. (And that's just a plain block of tofu. Not veggie crumbles or burger patties or anything fancy.)

One thing about living in Europe now, so much of the cheese is made with rennet that I do eat a lot less of it. They use it even in cream and cottage cheese, and gelatin in a lot of their yogurt.

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business attire
Highlie
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Icon 1 posted July 20, 2007 06:05      Profile for business attire     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
The benevolent dictatorship is much less benevolent when you're coercing your lifestyle on the unwilling and uninterested masses.
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stevenback7
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Icon 1 posted July 20, 2007 06:28      Profile for stevenback7   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Maybe the next rage will be taking the family out into the wild and putting corks in the butts of all the animals - It will cut down on greenhouse gas emmisions and will save the enviroment. Then again we shouldn't be blaming the animals of today for methane emmissions and other forms of affecting the enviroment we should be putting the blame on the dinosaurs - the amount of shit they produced has caused us to live in the world we do today.

I point the finger of blame on the dinosaurs.

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TMBWITW,PB

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Icon 1 posted July 20, 2007 06:41      Profile for TMBWITW,PB     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Actually it's the belching that is the problem not farting.

I've been eating less meat as an effort to be more environmentally conscious, but I've tried being vegetarian/vegan before. It is really hard to do without processed meat/egg/cheese substitutes, but if you use them it gets very expensive. And besides, I really like how meat tastes. I couldn't give it up completely. Mostly I'm sticking with my other method of sparing the earth--stopping at one child.

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"Beauty is in the eye of the beholder and it may be necessary from time to time to give a stupid or misinformed beholder a black eye."
—Miss Piggy

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Nitrozac

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Icon 1 posted July 20, 2007 13:43      Profile for Nitrozac   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Yeah, it does take more effort to make vegan meals, if you're used to eating carnivorously, but after a while, it becomes the same level of effort I think, thanks to the grocery store carrying vegan soy products and lots of soymilk. Right now the produce is SO GOOD, due to being farm fresh! It's more fun to make great veggie dishes this time of year! I wonder if Leo DeCaprio is vegan? If he wasn't, I'd be all dissappointed, same goes with Al Gore. [Cool]
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Aditu
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Icon 1 posted July 20, 2007 13:47      Profile for Aditu     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
I'm an ovo/lacto vegetarian. I just can't seem to give up milk products and eggs.
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zesovietrussian
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Icon 1 posted July 20, 2007 13:49      Profile for zesovietrussian     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Them vegan bastards, eating my food's food [Razz]
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Mac D
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Icon 1 posted July 20, 2007 16:41      Profile for Mac D     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by zesovietrussian:
Them vegan bastards, eating my food's food [Razz]

[Applause] [Applause]

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Xanthine

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Icon 1 posted July 20, 2007 17:53      Profile for Xanthine     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
I have severely mixed feelings about vegetarianism becoming trendy. I can't quite express why, but I am wary of that day. It's quieter on the fringe.

quote:
Originally posted by Aditu:
I'm an ovo/lacto vegetarian. I just can't seem to give up milk products and eggs.

Neither can I.

ZSR: survival of the fittest and all that. [Razz]

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And it's one, two, three / On the wrong side of the lee / What were you meant for? / What were you meant for?
- The Decemberists

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Richard Wolf VI
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Icon 10 posted July 20, 2007 19:30      Profile for Richard Wolf VI   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Seems that we carnivores have found a new prey: vegans [Razz]

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Xanthine

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Icon 1 posted July 20, 2007 19:52      Profile for Xanthine     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Cannibal.

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And it's one, two, three / On the wrong side of the lee / What were you meant for? / What were you meant for?
- The Decemberists

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Chesty
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Icon 1 posted July 20, 2007 21:12      Profile for Chesty         Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
I only eat food in Bar Form.


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Bibo
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Icon 1 posted July 21, 2007 09:39      Profile for Bibo   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
The green movement and "trendy" vegetarians surfaced and peaked in the 90s, the people I know that went veg during this trend are no longer vegetarians. My sister still tries to tell me she's a vegetarian even though she east fish and fowl [Roll Eyes] I heard a term that I like to call her now "Flexatarian" or part time vegetarian.

Littlefish, Steve Jobs is not a vegan. From Wikipedia Jobs is not a vegetarian or vegan as is often claimed. Although he does not eat mammalian meat or fowl, he eats fish from time to time. This is known as pescetarianism.

Speaking of fake meat products, I'm making a pot of baked beans with Morningstar veggie dogs for a family gathering, it will be interesting to see how many people eat it without knowing it's meatless.

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GameGod
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Icon 1 posted July 21, 2007 13:35      Profile for GameGod     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Unfortunately, I have little confidence that the general public will correlate the impact that eating beef has with the impact of the environment.

I believe that when it comes to the suppression of greenhouse gases, it won't be until government regulations force people to comply. That being said, I believe that if the government raises the cost of meat to the point that it is more expensive than vegetarian alternatives. Somehow I have a feeling that it won't happen in the United States: ever. In Canadian provinces such as Alberta, a province known for it's beef production, that motion would not settle well with them either. On that tangent, it won't be until the "peasants" of todays society are able to afford and maintain an easy vegan lifestyle. For those working 12 or more hour days on a low paying job, that is quite the obstacle.

I can see (if he is one) Leonardo DiCaprio or another celebrity flaunting a vegan lifestyle, but in this corrupted world I can just as easily see a corporation like McDonald's or Burger King suppressing that idea, perhaps with an environmentally friendly campaign or whatnot.

Sure, it will be an 'elite' sort of thing to do, one of those things that "you wish you had the strength to keep up", but in a society where the quick and easy are key, I don't see it happening. Look at the 'health craze', to look for those looking to only eat organic food to stay healthy or exercise is not an uncommon thing to find, but the whole world is still ballooning in obesity. There are even quick and easy "alternatives" to become healthy. See: packed full of nutrients vitamins/diet pills.

On a personal note, I'm a vegan in a meat eaters body. I'm a student who can't afford the time and money to go out of my way to eat in a vegan lifestyle, plus I love meat, cheese etc etc. It's one of those ideals that I wish I could partake, and I do see myself becoming at least a vegetarian once I have quite a few more birthdays.

I hope we are all reminded that in this 'geek' setting we are among this who are more educated and have more care on topics like this, so it's easy to have an idealized conversation.

Also, should that ever happen where it's the 'popular thing to do' to live a vegan lifestyle and I decide that I'm not ready for it, please for the love of God, don't make me feel guilty for my own personal choices. I could easily pull the "ancestors/forefathers survived on gutting their own cattle, or hunting their won food and drinking their milk" card.

Anyways, that's my two cents.

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Well...that was fun =)

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Bibo
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Icon 1 posted July 21, 2007 14:18      Profile for Bibo   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Next year will my 20th year as a vegetarian (for ethical reasons not health). I have never pushed my choice on anyone or made them feel guilty for eating meat. On the other hand I have been harassed by friends and family during this time who think they are being funny and "just joking" but it's never been funny.

It's the same way with religion and politics I don't push my beliefs on others nor do I want them pushing theirs on me.

If you choose to eat meat that's your personal choice. I was a big meat eater the 1st 22 years of my life.

quote:
Originally posted by GameGod:
....Also, should that ever happen where it's the 'popular thing to do' to live a vegan lifestyle and I decide that I'm not ready for it, please for the love of God, don't make me feel guilty for my own personal choices. I could easily pull the "ancestors/forefathers survived on gutting their own cattle, or hunting their won food and drinking their milk" card.


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Snaggy

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Icon 3 posted July 21, 2007 15:58      Profile for Snaggy   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
I'm a student who can't afford the time and money to go out of my way to eat in a vegan lifestyle, plus I love meat, cheese etc etc.

GameGod.. I became a vegetarian at 15 years old. It was no big deal to survive physically or socially without meat. I went through high school, college, and university, and was usually extremely short on money. And surprisingly, I spent very little time hunting and gathering my veggie dogs in the forest. [Razz] , although I will admit, I usually took a whole minute longer reading menus than my friends did.

If you really want to... no excuses, just make the move. It's so easy now a days, and usually cheaper. [thumbsup]

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Snaggy

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Icon 1 posted July 21, 2007 16:03      Profile for Snaggy   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
I have never pushed my choice on anyone or made them feel guilty for eating meat. On the other hand I have been harassed by friends and family during this time who think they are being funny and "just joking" but it's never been funny.

[Applause]

same here... man, when is it going to dawn on people that we vegetarians don't really want to hear you ate a Sea Turtle last week, or love baby lambs so much you eat them, or that "carrots have feeling too". So funny... not. [Roll Eyes] I guess meat eaters feel guilty or something, and have to say those things to make themselves feel better?

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-ct-
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Icon 4 posted July 21, 2007 22:42      Profile for -ct-   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
for every animal you don't eat, i'll eat 3


if we weren't supposed to eat animals, how come they taste SO good?

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Things are always darkest... just before you pull your head out of your butt, void where prohibited, keep away from flame, surcharge(s) may apply.

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GrumpySteen

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Icon 1 posted July 21, 2007 23:02      Profile for GrumpySteen     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
By all accounts, anti-freeze tastes pretty good too. Are you going to chug a big glass?

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