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Author Topic: DST
Rhonwyyn

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Icon 1 posted March 05, 2007 04:23      Profile for Rhonwyyn   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
So apparently Daylight Saving Time starts this coming Sunday instead of three to four weeks from now. And apparently it's supposed to set off a mini Y2K. At least, that's according to the illustrious minds on NBC's "Today Show."

What say you?

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Posts: 3849 | From: Lancaster, PA | Registered: Jul 2004  |  IP: Logged
GrumpySteen

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Icon 1 posted March 05, 2007 04:58      Profile for GrumpySteen     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
I think it will, in fact, be exactly like a miniature version of Y2K... a few annoyances and not much of significance.

It will definitely be annoying for those of us who deal with international time differences due to people doing things an hour after we thought they would because they didn't get the memo. To be fair, however, I'm sure plenty of people here will attempt to do things an hour early and annoy them in return, so it'll balance out.

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Posts: 6364 | From: Tennessee | Registered: Jan 2000  |  IP: Logged
Metasquares
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Icon 1 posted March 05, 2007 06:06      Profile for Metasquares   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Whatever happens, the maximum time difference is one hour. We shouldn't have nuclear plants shutting down or any of the stuff that may have seemed possible, if somewhat implausible, with Y2K.
Posts: 664 | From: Morganville, NJ | Registered: Oct 2005  |  IP: Logged
WinterSolstice

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Icon 1 posted March 05, 2007 06:54      Profile for WinterSolstice     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
So far as I know it only required a patch in most cases. Took us the better part of a weekend to remediate [Smile]

Of course, I suppose if you are writing lots of hard-coded custom date code then you probably should have started back when it became a law

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Posts: 1192 | From: Los Angeles | Registered: Oct 2001  |  IP: Logged
dragonman97

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Icon 1 posted March 05, 2007 07:07      Profile for dragonman97   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Oh, it's made a personal hell for some IT Depts...

Why, oh why, did Sun get it in their heads to not let the JVM talk to the OS about time? No...it has to maintain its own zoneinfo DB. :-/ Of course, it wouldn't be quite as much of a nuisance if certain Java-based products didn't decide to ship their own copy of the JDK/JRE, and store it in separate locations. That is a gorram nuisance to tend to. (On Windows, anyway - on *nix, they have a simple `find` script. *sigh*)

Also, M$ has chosen to keep to their word about not supporting Windows 2000, and will not publically release the patch for it. If you want the official one, you must pay them $4,000, or follow their cryptic instructions on editing the time zone DB by hand. The good folks at Intelliadmin have released an unofficial hotfix which does this for you, so at least it's not too big of a deal. Naturally, they'd like you to buy their product to deploy it, but seeing how they haven't put any strings on it, I found my own nice way to deploy it. [Smile]

It won't be the end of the world as we know it, but March 11th could have a bumpy start to it, and some businesses may have a very unpleasant day.

March 12th seems like a fine day to take a vacation day. [Wink]

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WinterSolstice

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Icon 1 posted March 05, 2007 07:30      Profile for WinterSolstice     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Thanks again DMan for reminding me why I love working in an all Unix Shop [Smile]

It took about an hour on wednesday and then another hour friday to patch 70 hosts.

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An operating system should be like a light switch... simple, effective, easy to use, and designed for everyone.

Posts: 1192 | From: Los Angeles | Registered: Oct 2001  |  IP: Logged
Just_Jess_B

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Icon 1 posted March 05, 2007 08:40      Profile for Just_Jess_B   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
As much as I hate to say it, I really enjoy being as close to a 21st Century Luddite as possible. People who understand it do it for me.

I really appreciate the techs who do this for us; it's going to be so strange, however, to anniversarize post instead of pre-DST.

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Posts: 1370 | From: Whaddya mean, Arizona? | Registered: May 2003  |  IP: Logged
Metasquares
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Icon 1 posted March 05, 2007 10:57      Profile for Metasquares   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by dragonman97:
No...it has to maintain its own zoneinfo DB. :-/

Now that's just stupid.
Posts: 664 | From: Morganville, NJ | Registered: Oct 2005  |  IP: Logged
GrumpySteen

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Icon 1 posted March 05, 2007 12:12      Profile for GrumpySteen     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
dragonman97 wrote:
Oh, it's made a personal hell for some IT Depts...

Yes, but the question is what will happen when DST starts on the 11th... that personal hell you (and others) have gone through should translate to 'not much of significance'.

That said, there are still things like the recent F22 systems bug that don't offer any warm fuzzy feelings about time/date issues in software...

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WinterSolstice

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Icon 1 posted March 05, 2007 13:11      Profile for WinterSolstice     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
That one really surprised me - I still don't quite understand why there would be actual nav issues involved in the date.

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An operating system should be like a light switch... simple, effective, easy to use, and designed for everyone.

Posts: 1192 | From: Los Angeles | Registered: Oct 2001  |  IP: Logged
GrumpySteen

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Icon 1 posted March 05, 2007 14:16      Profile for GrumpySteen     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
The best guess I've heard was an unhandled exception due to an overflow error in some routine dealing with flight time. I could believe that a programmer didn't think to account for flight times of over 24 hours and it was missed during testing.

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Spiderman

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Icon 1 posted March 05, 2007 18:39      Profile for Spiderman     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
DST patching has been a massive project at work...our winops/unixops/sanops teams have been working on rolling out patches for weeks now, and I was greeted by a lovely forced reboot this morning when logging into my computer. Makes me happy I'm no longer doing that sort of IT work.

DST needs to be abolished. Period.

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dragonman97

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Icon 1 posted March 05, 2007 19:07      Profile for dragonman97   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Steen...congrats, you finally got me to read that story. I've been avoiding it for a week because all the lead-ins were stupid. Now that I know it's a time issue, I cannot help but channel Nelson, point, and say "Ha-ha."

Seriously, that's pretty lame.

Spiderman, I'd second that, but further it by saying that everything should run on UTC. If it wasn't for people's fickle manners about what time they get up and go to bed, I'd that everyone should use it in their daily lives. Then again, they said the same thing about Metric in the ~70s. (Erm...hehehehe...)

Also, don't forget the issues surrounding the space shuttle - its mission had to either go through and be done by 31 Dec, or be scrubbed until the new year. The code was not set to go through a year change, and it was unsure if it could handle it properly. Apparently, it was never in the software specs, as it was held that the astronauts & ops people would stay home over the holidays.

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Richard Wolf VI
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Icon 10 posted March 05, 2007 19:34      Profile for Richard Wolf VI   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
I'm glad to be DST free!

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GrumpySteen

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Icon 1 posted March 07, 2007 14:50      Profile for GrumpySteen     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Just to be nice to any GC members who are still using Windows 98, ME, or 2000 (if there are any)...

There is an unofficial patch available made by a third party that seems to work and hasn't caused any problems that I know of so far. It only fixes the OS, however, and not outlook express, java, etc.

Windows 98/ME
Windows 2000

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dragonman97

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Icon 1 posted March 07, 2007 16:55      Profile for dragonman97   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Steen: You kidding? Lots of people run Win2k!

Erm...come to think of it:
Quoth...me
quote:

Also, M$ has chosen to keep to their word about not supporting Windows 2000, and will not publically release the patch for it. If you want the official one, you must pay them $4,000, or follow their cryptic instructions on editing the time zone DB by hand. The good folks at Intelliadmin have released an unofficial hotfix which does this for you, so at least it's not too big of a deal. Naturally, they'd like you to buy their product to deploy it, but seeing how they haven't put any strings on it, I found my own nice way to deploy it.:-)

Guess who just updated more than a handful of machines today? [Wink]

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GrumpySteen

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Icon 1 posted March 07, 2007 17:22      Profile for GrumpySteen     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
dragonman97 wrote:
Steen: You kidding? Lots of people run Win2k!

I assumed there would be a few, which is why I posted the links.

A number of my friends and co-workers and their friends still have it as well. I still have a Win98SE machine. Some old games are fun, but just won't run under 2000 and XP.

Guess who just updated more than a handful of machines today? [Wink]

[thumbsup]

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dragonman97

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Icon 1 posted March 07, 2007 17:45      Profile for dragonman97   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Steen:
dragonman97 wrote:
Steen: You kidding? Lots of people run Win2k!

I assumed there would be a few, which is why I posted the links.

A number of my friends and co-workers and their friends still have it as well. I still have a Win98SE machine. Some old games are fun, but just won't run under 2000 and XP.

Sorry, I have a big chip on my shoulder when I get vibes of "Isn't *everybody* running Windows XP or Vista?" It typically connotes 'not in the real world, thinks everyone has gaming machines' to me. [Razz] Upgrading costs a lot of money, and isn't always necessary. You don't /need/ Windows XP to run a word processor & a web browser / mail client.

By the same token, I got very ticked off a few years ago when some twunts on /. or somewhere else suggested that the CD version of Knoppix be _dropped_. After all, everyone has DVD drives. Back then, I was supporting more than a few hundred PCs, and no more than 10 of them had DVD drives. These days, the equation has shifted to maybe 30-40% having DVD drives. Knoppix is meant to work universally, and limiting new development to DVD editions is simply counterproductive in making a quality live *CD* that Just Works.

quote:

Guess who just updated more than a handful of machines today? [Wink]

[thumbsup]

It's not because I'm such a good citizen, or wanted to, though. [Razz]
However, until the next round of [new] computers goes through, there are still a good many 2k boxen running - and I think it's lousy of Microsoft to leave people in the lurch like this. The Intelliadmin patch is quite helpful, but it's nowhere near as good as a Windows Update. The latter can be pushed out effortlessly, the former has taken me a healthy bit of time to prepare for release.

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NoRealReason
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Icon 1 posted March 07, 2007 18:48      Profile for NoRealReason   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Spidey said:
quote:
DST patching has been a massive project at work...our winops/unixops/sanops teams have been working on rolling out patches for weeks now, and I was greeted by a lovely forced reboot this morning when logging into my computer. Makes me happy I'm no longer doing that sort of IT work.

Makes me wish I was out of it at times also.
Personally, we have been putting in many many hours due to the DST crap.....so far I have had to rebuild 3 servers because of a FAStT patch that didn't play nice with a DST patch....
Funny, just the day before I got into an argument with another guy on a conference call that having your DB and Logs on raid wasn't enough protection, and that mirroring them both would provide more benefits than sleeping better at night. Not 12 hours later both the raids he spoke of were gone.
[Roll Eyes]
Anyway, my weekend is shot because we are running all hands on 12 hour shifts all weekend, just like I did for Y2K. I hope it is the same non-event.
Good luck to everyone, and enjoy your weekend [Wink]

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The Famous Druid

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Icon 1 posted March 08, 2007 12:41      Profile for The Famous Druid     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
I s'pose that's just the difference between aussies and merkins.

We've had 2 'this year only' DST changes recently. Most IT departments here solved the 'problem' by sending out an email saying "your PC clocks will be wrong for a few weeks, deal with it".

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Just_Jess_B

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Icon 1 posted March 08, 2007 12:48      Profile for Just_Jess_B   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by The Famous Druid:
I s'pose that's just the difference between aussies and merkins.

Hehe. You said "merkin".

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