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Author Topic: anyone know much about the Raw and Living Food diet?
Nitrozac

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Icon 1 posted February 12, 2007 16:11      Profile for Nitrozac   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Cally; I wondered about that last night, to tell the truth. I thought, "why do I care about animals? Why? To want to change my life so much. Why?" I wondered about that. The answer is, I don't know. I didn't become Bhuddist (sp?-sorry Demos). I honestly don't know why I am so into this non exploitation of animals, at increasing layers and levels. I think it's interesting and I'm learning a lot about food production and how it affects me.

The primary reason for me to become vegan was for weight loss reasons. I knew enough about the vegan diet to know it's very healthy, so I figured it's something I'd benefit from. I lost 5 lbs in 3 weeks, btw! [Big Grin] I'm not starving ever, I enjoy preparing and eating vegan food. It's been a win-win thing.

As I was researching farming methods, that's when the animal concern started. I've come to the conclusion that I want my diet to have as little to with farmers as possible. I don't like most farmer's practises at all, from what I've experienced ( I grew up in an agriculture community), and from what I've learned from reading up on Mad Cow in Canada, is that farmers have 0 concern for public health. The only thing they care about is profit or losses, and they will risk our health for their financial gain, and I think that is morally, ethically wrong. Produce and grain and soy farmers have the same mentality as livestock farmers, IMHO. In Canada they think they have the right to put genetically modified food into the marketplace with no longterm study on its effects. That's appalling! It's threatening all plant species, as you can't control GM pollen. Same as fish farmers, they are genetically modifying fish and come what may if they escape their confines and breed with wild species. They don't care. They just want to make a buck. Farmers/aka Food Producers felt they had the right to spray chemicals like DDT on crops, and they still spray chemicals on food. I didn't care about that stuff, but now that I'm learning I'm realizing that we are in a living hell, and we've dragged every living species with us.

I feel bad about that. I'm coming up with how to stop contributing to what I don't like; food production. What's wrong with that? So what, I don't have pizza and icecream anymore, my appetite for it has disappeared. My arteries are thanking me for it.

I haven't really started the fossil fuel crusade, and it's not about my carbon footprint, these are nice side effects of veganism though.

When I started these topics, it was out of excitement and wanting to share that with the smartest people I know, and people I respect -- you guys. Most posts were quite encouraging at first, they just haven't sparred with the meat eaters, and that's probably a smart idea.

When I told my family, the reaction wasn't what I thought it would be. It was groans of annoyance. Even Snaggy groaned! I really didn't think people would react the way they have. I'm difficult to go to dinner with. Come to think of it, I don't have any vegan friends or relatives, a few vegetarian ones tho.

But, I was really glad I started the Raw food topic because I am skeptical of the claims that movement makes, and particulary Xan's posts have been helpful for me personally.

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Serenak

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Icon 1 posted February 13, 2007 03:55      Profile for Serenak     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Nitro

Don't get me wrong here, you want to do what seems right for you and I totally support that.

To me vegan seems a pretty hardcore option but that is really not the question. I am in no way attempting to "bait" you, only wanting to try and help you to get clear in your head what you do and do not wish to consider "kosher" with respect to your vegan ideals (and to balance that with the fact that if you wish to avoid some natural products like manure that the option is rather less "green") Unfortunately if you want nothing to have come from an animal all wools (and silk too I am afraid) are out the window leaving only the synthetic versions (of course there are other non manmade fibres, cotton, flax, etc. - though some pretty hard core veggie/vegans I know will accept wool because the animal is not harmed in order for us to obtain it.

These are the sorts of questions you have to get clear in your mind. What terms are you going to lay down and is "green-ness" a factor and if so if/when/where does the green factor outweigh the "came from an animal" factor or the cost? Many riding stables will happily give you horse manure free - and riding horses are not exploited or harmed that I can see - chemical fertilizers are not cheap and probably not very green (again not trying to taunt you but all these sort of lifestyle desicions obviously involve some hard calls at some point).

Anyway if you are going vegan good luck - I mean it is not so out there that no one has ever heard of it or done it before.

Whether I, or anyone else, thinks your decisions are laudable or bizarre is irrelevant and I wish you good luck and would be interested to hear occasional updates on how it is going.

By the way I believe that you can do a lot worse than looking into Hindu cuisine if you want to find a long established vegan tradition.

Oh and the raw and living thing? That is just a load of Pseudo Scientific BS (and probably not from nicely tended organically reared ones either [Big Grin] )

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WinterSolstice

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Icon 1 posted February 13, 2007 06:05      Profile for WinterSolstice     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Hindu food is vegetarian, not vegan.

It makes heavy use of clarified butter (yum) and cheese. It's also extremely tasty [Big Grin]

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Demosthenes
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Icon 1 posted February 13, 2007 06:50      Profile for Demosthenes     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Serenak:
These are the sorts of questions you have to get clear in your mind. What terms are you going to lay down and is "green-ness" a factor and if so if/when/where does the green factor outweigh the "came from an animal" factor or the cost?

Wouldn't concentrating on one's ecological footprint, to benefit the entire planet's worth of animals, do more good than agonizing over whether or not animal fat was used to process your dinner, which only really serves your conscience? (Hint: the planet is falling apart a whole lot faster than the meat and dairy industries. Cows are going to be milked and chickens are going to be slaughtered no matter how much soy you eat in your lifetime, but you can make a difference regarding your use of fossil fuels, energy conservation practices, and contribution to pollution.) I'm not saying that you should give up the whole veganism thing (although your physician might take that honor) in lieu of environmentalism, I'm suggesting that you closely reinspect your priorities.

Another question, not necessarily related to a vegan diet, but Nitro, don't you have pet cats? It could definitely be argued by someone with a strong belief in non-exploitative animal welfare that, by keeping an animal confined in an unnatural environment, you're exploiting it and possibly causing it mental anguish, don't you agree?

Just to play a little devil's advocate:

"It is time we demand an end to the misguided and abusive concept of animal ownership. The first step on this long, but just, road would be ending the concept of pet ownership."
-- Elliot Katz, President, In Defense of Animals, "In Defense of Animals," Spring 1997

"The bottom line is that people don't have the right to manipulate or to breed dogs and cats ... If people want toys they should buy inanimate objects. If they want companionship they should seek it with their own kind."
-- Ingrid Newkirk, President, PETA, "Animals," May 1993

"Pet ownership is an absolutely abysmal situation brought about by human manipulation."
-- Ingrid Newkirk, PETA, "Just Like Us? Toward a Notion of Animal Rights," Harper's, August 1988


Also, are you feeding the cat meat products? That's a damned if you do, damned if you don't situation: feed it meat, and you're still pouring money into a cause you're against. Don't feed it meat, and you're practicing the very same animal cruelty you're trying to fight. And what of other carnivorous animals? What plant-based alternative is out there for my freezer full of dead mice?

At this point I'm just curious as to how you'd work out those "rock and a hard place" situations. [Big Grin]

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GMx

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Icon 1 posted February 13, 2007 07:47      Profile for GMx     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Demosthenes:
[QUOTE]Another question, not necessarily related to a vegan diet, but Nitro, don't you have pet cats? It could definitely be argued by someone with a strong belief in non-exploitative animal welfare that, by keeping an animal confined in an unnatural environment, you're exploiting it and possibly causing it mental anguish, don't you agree?

Just to play a little devil's advocate:

"It is time we demand an end to the misguided and abusive concept of animal ownership. The first step on this long, but just, road would be ending the concept of pet ownership."
-- Elliot Katz, President, In Defense of Animals, "In Defense of Animals," Spring 1997

"The bottom line is that people don't have the right to manipulate or to breed dogs and cats ... If people want toys they should buy inanimate objects. If they want companionship they should seek it with their own kind."
-- Ingrid Newkirk, President, PETA, "Animals," May 1993

"Pet ownership is an absolutely abysmal situation brought about by human manipulation."
-- Ingrid Newkirk, PETA, "Just Like Us? Toward a Notion of Animal Rights," Harper's, August 1988


Also, are you feeding the cat meat products? That's a damned if you do, damned if you don't situation: feed it meat, and you're still pouring money into a cause you're against. Don't feed it meat, and you're practicing the very same animal cruelty you're trying to fight. And what of other carnivorous animals? What plant-based alternative is out there for my freezer full of dead mice?

At this point I'm just curious as to how you'd work out those "rock and a hard place" situations. [Big Grin]

We don't exploit pets, they exploit us. [Wink] BTW-Cats should be fed meat, because if you exclude it from their diet they could die. Cats shouldn't be fed an exclusively vegatarian diet.
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Xanthine

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Icon 1 posted February 13, 2007 08:11      Profile for Xanthine     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Feeding a carnivore a vegetarian diet sounds about as sensible as feeding a herbivore rendered meat.

I was wondering what the hard-core vegan stance was on pets. Now I know. The thing is, dogs and cats and so many other animals we keep for either companionship or work have been domesticated for thousands of years, and they really do improve the lives of those that keep them (ever seen a guide dog doing its job?). Your dog or cat truly belongs in your yard or living room. If we don't keep them, what do we do with them?

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dragonman97

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Icon 1 posted February 13, 2007 08:14      Profile for dragonman97   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Xanthine:
If we don't keep them, what do we do with them?

Do what PETA does...and kill them.
</sad, but true>

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atayarani
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Icon 1 posted February 13, 2007 08:24      Profile for atayarani     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
"The bottom line is that people don't have the right to manipulate or to breed dogs and cats ... If people want toys they should buy inanimate objects. If they want companionship they should seek it with their own kind."
-- Ingrid Newkirk, President, PETA, "Animals," May 1993

One day, when I have a house, I'd like to get an anatolian shephard. It makes a good companion, and a good guard dog.

I'm sure if I look hard enough, I could find a bouncer with a heart of gold to protect my house; however, I think it would be a little awkward having a large muscleman sleeping at the foot of my bed.

Just a little.

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Icon 1 posted February 13, 2007 09:08      Profile for ScholasticSpastic     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Yay, Demosthenes, we both keep freezers full of dead mice! Is yours a snake or a lizard? I'm putting off sewing a special pocket in my pants- I want to call him a trouser snake. (Looking for ways to walk withouth excessive jostling of the pocked monster.) Monitor lizards are kind of fun... Too big for my apartment, though.

I also agree that we do more harm to animals by utilizing extractive products (oil in cars, metals and coal from mountain-top removal, hardwood furniture from the rainforrests) than we do by killing them outright and eating their tasty flesh. Oh, another thing we do a lot of that is one of the greatest causes of animal death is making babies. We make so many babies that we use up the animal habitats and they starve. Starvation is a death that's much less comfortable than being hit over the head with a baseball bat and then eviscerated while unconscious (I think that's how they do the cows). Thinking logically and assigning priorities can point to the realization that there are much more productive ways to save life on Earth than veganism.

Veganism is a wonderful dietary choice and my own personal food preferences do, to some extent, mirror your intentions in choosing not to eat any flesh at all. However, veganism is frighteningly ineffective for saving lives if it's they only method by which you intend to do so. There are many aspects of your life that kill more effeciently than a slaughterhouse. Ignore them and you are a hypocrite. For example, most animals don't give a shit about their shit. I know that I'd rather my feces were used for something productive. A lot of animals kind of resent being hit by cars, though (I can see it in the hurt that fills their eyes as I roll over them- just kidding, I haven't knowingly killed anything but bugs with my car yet). Driving a car when you're a vegan is a great example of vegan hypocracy- it's like protesting a fur shop wearing leather shoes. (I've seen it done. I wish you could have been there for our little talk.)

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"As in repeating a well-known song, so in instincts, one action follows another by a sort of rhythm; if a person be interrupted in a song, or in repeating anything by rote, he is generally forced to go back to recover the habitual train of thought..." (Darwin, The Origin of Species)

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dragonman97

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Icon 1 posted February 13, 2007 09:37      Profile for dragonman97   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Daaaammmnnn, dude...you're doing a fair job of channeling spungo. [Big Grin]

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Demosthenes
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Icon 1 posted February 13, 2007 11:29      Profile for Demosthenes     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by ScholasticSpastic:
Yay, Demosthenes, we both keep freezers full of dead mice! Is yours a snake or a lizard?

Yay, fellow herp nerds! She's an Australian spotted python, what's yours?
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The Famous Druid

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Icon 1 posted February 13, 2007 12:29      Profile for The Famous Druid     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Demosthenes:
Yay, fellow herp nerds! She's an Australian spotted python, what's yours?

Another woman who's fond of aussie 'pythons' [evil]

(although the 'herp' reference is disturbing...)

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ScholasticSpastic
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Icon 1 posted February 13, 2007 12:39      Profile for ScholasticSpastic     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
I used to have a Honduran milk snake (couldn't find the nipples to milk it...), but I had to sell him due to my student life-style. His housing requirements were too specific for a student to maintain consistently and it bothered me that I wasn't always providing the best habitat for him. He was blue-black with red and orange bands. Beautiful snake and I miss him very much...

Currently, I own an albino corn snake. They are much less exacting in their care needs. Corn snakes are to reptile pets as spider plants are to house-plants. My cornsnake eats dead mice because I feel kind of brutal placing animals in confined spaces with their natural predators- nature isn't usually constrained that way. If I had the funding to date effectively, it would be a bad thing to keep a freezer full of dead mice (not all girly-creatures are smart enough to realize that mice are like hamburger with the fur still on- you've just got to take tiny bites).
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This isn't a photo of my snake specifically, but it has a similar face and the markings are pretty close- it'll give those who aren't quite as biologically geeky an idea of what I'm talking about.

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"As in repeating a well-known song, so in instincts, one action follows another by a sort of rhythm; if a person be interrupted in a song, or in repeating anything by rote, he is generally forced to go back to recover the habitual train of thought..." (Darwin, The Origin of Species)

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Demosthenes
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Icon 1 posted February 13, 2007 12:46      Profile for Demosthenes     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by ScholasticSpastic:
Currently, I own an albino corn snake. They are much less exacting in their care needs.

I had a "snow" corn snake, which is the breeder's term for albino, when I was in college. His name was Gunnar and he was a rescue, and the damned easiest animal I've ever had to care for. Unfortunately, I had a less-than-attentive snakesitter for a few days who misplaced him. In the dead of winter. [Mad] I also had an Okeetee corn (the markings of the snake in the photo you posted) in high school, Kyoht, who was also a rescue. Kyoht was very old when I got him, but was a sweet, tame critter. Corns are great low-maintenance animals.

Anyway, I moved on to heavy-bodied snakes like pythons because they're much less active. Sif is much tamer than Gunnar ever was; I can wind her around my forearm and go out for a stroll when it's warm out. She's a more finicky eater, and I find myself braining her food more often than not to get her to eat on first strike, but she's such a love. [hearts]

If you ever move on to more demanding species, invest in a temperature/humidity gun. It can tell you what the levels are for any part of the tank, and it's a lifesaver when dealing with stuck sheds.

Good move on feeding pre-killed food, though; I've torn into someone on these boards before for feeding live. (Live rodents have sharp teeth and claws, and I can tell you right now, as a rat owner, they fight like the dickens!)

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ScholasticSpastic
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Icon 1 posted February 13, 2007 12:57      Profile for ScholasticSpastic     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
My snake must be a freak. Kolowisi slithers up to my arm and is perfectly content to be held for hours at a time (with drinking breaks). He's possibly the most involved reptile I've ever observed- he'll make an effort to check out everything I do.

I've been astounded by the range of personalities that our cold-blooded friends are able to exhibit. I worked at a pet-store for a while until I realized it's not a good job for people who love animals. I met a psychotic banana king snake there. I had to handle it during every break for two months before I convinced it that biting wasn't a necessary response to being handled. I was saving up the money to purchase it when it was sold to someone else. I felt kind of bad that I'd put all that effort into socializing the snake and I didn't get to take it home. But I was glad that it was able to leave the store alive. The birds were happy, too, because I used to play with them during my breaks before I began my crusade to save the king snake and they were glad to have me back.

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"As in repeating a well-known song, so in instincts, one action follows another by a sort of rhythm; if a person be interrupted in a song, or in repeating anything by rote, he is generally forced to go back to recover the habitual train of thought..." (Darwin, The Origin of Species)

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Nitrozac

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Icon 10 posted February 13, 2007 13:42      Profile for Nitrozac   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Yay! Devil's advocate time! Demos, you have a quite a talent for getting people to believe your distortions of the truth! My hat goes off to you! First it was the misquote about me posting that I thought was more enlightened which got Dragonman in a huff, now you've taken old quotes from PETA from 1988 and 1997 and Xan is thinking that's the hardcore vegan stance on pet keeping.

If you want accurate information, I suggest you guys go to this site;
http://www.helpinganimals.com/

Here is a quote directly from 2007 Peta website FAQ about companion animals

"Adopting a cat or dog from a shelter and providing a loving home is a small but powerful way to prevent some of this suffering. The most important thing that animal guardians can do is to spay or neuter their animals and avoid buying animals from breeders or pet stores, which contribute to the overpopulation crisis."

quote:
Another question, not necessarily related to a vegan diet, but Nitro, don't you have pet cats? It could definitely be argued by someone with a strong belief in non-exploitative animal welfare that, by keeping an animal confined in an unnatural environment, you're exploiting it and possibly causing it mental anguish, don't you agree?
Here is photos I took moments ago of my mentally anguished and abusively confined cat. WARNING!: The following images may be disturbing to meat eaters.

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BTW, NitroKitty was adopted as stray from a vet. She was a 6 month old kitten that was feral and had little hope of being adopted. She was adorable and healthy, except for a case of worms and later ecoli infection which I gladly paid for treating. She is not a kitten I got from a breeder for megabucks. She was a rescue. I wouldn't give her up for the world, and I love her very much, and I would do anything to keep her healthy, active, and happy. As PETA suggests I have never let her roam alone in the outdoors where she can kill wildbirds or be killed on the road or by the hands of a cruel neighbour. I play with her when she asks, and spend all day with her, she rarely spends any time alone, and that's what she likes. SHe really misses us when we're gone. When we come in the door, she is there with her special greeting of rolling cutely on the floor while I drop everything and hug and kiss her-- which she loves. I take her in for all her vet checkups and shots, and vets told me "she is a healthy happy cat". Last year the vets and the assistants personally told me how great they thought I was for holding her in my arms on a hard chair in the cat kennel for 6 hours straight while she was getting fluids as she was very ill, and it wasn't looking good, that's when she turned the corner to survive. They said they rarely see that, and it was my honor and priviledge to have done that. I'd do it again in a heartbeat. So really, you can't tell me I'm a cruel to her.

Oh yeah, and this is how cruel I am to other animals, domestic and wild;
* 2 years ago, on the way to an appointment, I pulled over the car, knowing I'd be late or miss that appointment because I saw a tiny black kitten on the shoulder of the road and a barrier. She would have very likely been killed if I hadn't picked her up. She was four weeks old and had a mouth injury from being thrown out of a car and landing chin first on the pavement. Snaggy and I cuddled her up and by chance we flagged down an SPCA van and surrendered her. A month later I visited the kitten and she was doing really well, was spayed and very happy and healthy.

* Last summer I saw a red bird fluttering on the highway, again I turned around and stopped the car to see if it was still alive. It was still alive! I scooped it up, and walked to through the ditch and sat down and checked it out, the neck wasn't broken, nothing seemed to be broken. I was going to hold it, or place it somewhere safely to die and watch that no predators would kill it. As I was looking for the perfect place it's eyes opened and I opened my hand and it didn't move, so I continued holding it, planning what I should do. Luckily it recovered enough to fly off into the trees away from the road. I went on my way.

* In November I was getting gas at the station and SNaggy noticed a cute calico cat going up to everyone and being very friendly. I asked about it and the gas attendants said it was a likely a stray, and they didn't want to call the SPCA because they changed their policy about not putting down cats due to having so many cats there. We waited till the next night and we let her hop in our car, and we took her to Snaggy's mom's for the night. We spent the evening giving her a kitty's smorgasbord of high quality cat food, and a litter box, lit the fire for her, we pat her, played with her and I let her fall asleep on my lap, as she was exhausted. The next day I called the vet to check on the tatoo in her ear and learned that tatoos are a system to track cats and find them when they're lost. I got intouch with the vet's office that she came from.

As it turned out the cute calico cat went missing 2 years ago, the family was devasted, put up notices, and even had it on the radio, they searched for months. They were ecstatic, shocked and very grateful. We drove her to that vet, and they picked her up from there and called me that night. The mom couldn't believe we'd go to all that trouble, taking her in for the night, driving her to the vet, and we refused the reward and said "Merry Christmas".

I don't think it's fair to say that I'm cruel to animals because I have a cat. I think you are the one being rude this time, Demos.

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Demosthenes
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Icon 1 posted February 13, 2007 14:07      Profile for Demosthenes     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Nitrozac:
Yay! Devil's advocate time! Demos, you have a quite a talent for getting people to believe your distortions of the truth!

Okay, Nitro, you're ignoring the points I was trying to bring up and just being flat-out ignorant. That makes you no longer a fun debate partner.

What I was attempting to drill through your tofu-lined brain cavity was the fact that you are unable to cut all animal products out of your life unless you are willing to make some sacrifice. I was trying to get you to see that some things work on a larger scale, like environmentalism, while some don't work on any scale beyond your own conscience, like veganism. And lastly, I was making an honest attempt to learn just how you make amends with the fact that, not only is it arguably exploitative to keep a domesticated animal, but that you must feed it animal products for its survival.

You chose to answer none of these questions, and instead got huffy about the fact that I was questioning you at all. Do geeks not seek to explore? May we not do so by posing difficult questions to what is presumed to be an authority, or at least well-studied, on the subject?

This kind of childish reaction and unwillingness to engage in actual debate leaves me cold and makes me feel as though this is no longer the home of intelligent conversation and equal footing that it once was. Also, unlike you, I commit to my beliefs, and when I choose not to support something, I quit it wholeheartedly. I'll see you on Livejournal.

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Icon 1 posted February 13, 2007 14:31      Profile for CommanderShroom     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
I always think about this line I read when a conversation about PETA occurs...

The only reason PETA attacks fur so vehemently is because it's safer to pick on women than tossing paint on a biker.

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Does he know our big secret?
Has one of us confessed?
'Bout the wires circuits and motors
Buried in our chest

Posts: 2463 | From: Utarrrrggggghhh!!!!!!!! | Registered: Mar 2003  |  IP: Logged
Nitrozac

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Icon 1 posted February 13, 2007 14:34      Profile for Nitrozac   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Demos, I thought you were being flamebait-y and rude. I don't think your questions are hard to answer, merely a waste of time to answer, as they are so obvious meant to provoke.

quote:
What I was attempting to drill through your tofu-lined brain cavity
What? That's not a childish response? That's not meant to piss me off? Well, sorry to disappoint me but that doesn't piss me off, it makes me wonder about you.

Where haven't I answered your question? I thorughly explained my position with my own pet, and backed up support with my PETA findings which you were the one who started plucking quotes from. /me shrugs, I don't know why you're getting so upset.

I took my lumps for being called rude, and now I think you should take yours too, because if you weren't rude before you are now by saying you are trying to drill your beliefs into my tofu-line brain cavatiy. You're rude, rude, totally rude. I would prefer you give me an apology for your latest blast.

Thank you, apology accepted in advance. [Razz]

Oh and btw, a vegan diet is the most environmentally beneficial diet you can get, and that's an age old fact, my friend, Environmental Studies 101. I think you are the one that hasn't educated herself about the topic.

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ScholasticSpastic
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Icon 1 posted February 13, 2007 14:35      Profile for ScholasticSpastic     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Demosthenes:
This kind of childish reaction and unwillingness to engage in actual debate leaves me cold and makes me feel as though this is no longer the home of intelligent conversation and equal footing that it once was.

'kay, but don't leave or I'll miss you.

Nitrozac,

I don't think anyone has questioned your devotion to the wellfare of our fuzzier co-habitants. We're just wondering if there might be more effective ways to positively impact animal welfare than avoiding certain foods. Veganism for weight-loss and maybe some other cause for animal-welfare like habitat preservation. Nitrokitty is fine, but other animals are losing their homes to subdivisions.

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"As in repeating a well-known song, so in instincts, one action follows another by a sort of rhythm; if a person be interrupted in a song, or in repeating anything by rote, he is generally forced to go back to recover the habitual train of thought..." (Darwin, The Origin of Species)

Posts: 540 | From: Vernal, UT | Registered: Jan 2007  |  IP: Logged
Nitrozac

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Icon 1 posted February 13, 2007 14:39      Profile for Nitrozac   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Scholastic, please go to PETA's site, and David Sukuki's site. There they scientifically explain in great length how not eating animals is the single most effective thing you can do to care for their welfare, and the planet. [shake head]
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Just_Jess_B

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Icon 4 posted February 13, 2007 14:42      Profile for Just_Jess_B   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
I'm an ex-smoker.

You shouldn't allow your housepets to smoke. You shouldn't eat meat raised by smokers. Smoking kills . . . things. Small children shouldn't smoke. Houseplants die when you don't water them. Why? Because you shouldn't smoke. Jesus hates smokers. Born-agains hate people who aren't born again. Why? Because they know people who smoke and smoking is evil. People who whale professionally? They smoke. See how people who smoke are simply evil? Whalers = evil = smokers.

See where I'm going with this?

Knock it off and appreciate that Nitro is trying to change her corner of the world. None of us is perfect, and if she decides to eat a BLT tomorrow then go back to organic wheat berries under a bed of organic raw tofu, then that's no problem for me. PETA makes me nuts with the sentimental over mental arguments. Yes, thank you, the bacteria in my colon like it there because that's where they live.

Cute kitty by the way. It begs to be pet.

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Opinion is not Truth; that is why each has its own definition. Illiteracy sucks.

Posts: 1370 | From: Whaddya mean, Arizona? | Registered: May 2003  |  IP: Logged
WinterSolstice

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Icon 1 posted February 13, 2007 14:46      Profile for WinterSolstice     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
My grandmother was a smoker who ate smoked meat. And now she's dead.

Proof postive. Eating meat kills, smoking kills, and eating meat from cows who smoke is even worse.


(Note, this post is meant to be read with tounge in cheek)

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An operating system should be like a light switch... simple, effective, easy to use, and designed for everyone.

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CommanderShroom
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Icon 1 posted February 13, 2007 14:54      Profile for CommanderShroom     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
And be especially careful of atheist smoking whalers that visit hookah houses with cows.

--------------------
Does he know our big secret?
Has one of us confessed?
'Bout the wires circuits and motors
Buried in our chest

Posts: 2463 | From: Utarrrrggggghhh!!!!!!!! | Registered: Mar 2003  |  IP: Logged
WinterSolstice

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Icon 11 posted February 13, 2007 14:56      Profile for WinterSolstice     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by CommanderShroom:
And be especially careful of atheist smoking whalers that visit hookah houses with cows.

Ooooh. I've heard about them /me nods

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An operating system should be like a light switch... simple, effective, easy to use, and designed for everyone.

Posts: 1192 | From: Los Angeles | Registered: Oct 2001  |  IP: Logged


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