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Author Topic: Hitler == Bush ?
Jace Raven

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Icon 1 posted June 29, 2006 07:55      Profile for Jace Raven         Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
http://www.whatreallyhappened.com/reich.html

I dont know what to think about this.

What do you think?

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maximile

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Icon 1 posted June 29, 2006 08:13      Profile for maximile   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Interesting read; scary stuff.
Posts: 1085 | From: London, UK (Powys, UK in hols) | Registered: Feb 2005  |  IP: Logged
drunkennewfiemidget
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Icon 1 posted June 29, 2006 09:11      Profile for drunkennewfiemidget     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
It's funny.. I made that very same connection on my website, and people e-mailed me telling me I was being 'radical'.
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Sxeptomaniac

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Icon 1 posted June 29, 2006 11:59      Profile for Sxeptomaniac   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Frankly, it's a lot of simplistic drivel based more on the author's conceptions about the right and wrong side than a knowledge of history. There was a lot more to Hitler's rise in Germany than some kind of cowardism/bravery dichotomy, such as the perceived injustices following WWI and the severe depression. While some parallels can easily be drawn between Bush and Hitler, there are also quite a few differences. Simply put, I don't believe there is any way that Bush could retain power. He hasn't made moves to do so, nor has he ever had the kind of support he would need.

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Let's pray that the human race never escapes from Earth to spread its iniquity elsewhere. - C. S. Lewis

Posts: 1590 | From: Fresno, CA | Registered: Mar 2005  |  IP: Logged
Callipygous
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Icon 1 posted June 29, 2006 15:13      Profile for Callipygous     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
It's not simplistic drivel, but the writer ruins his own thesis, and a lot of cogent points by drifting off into the ludicrous paranoid conspiracy theories that suggest the US government staged 9/11. Where he does have a point is that the administration has looked approvingly on, and reinforced the absurd myth of America, created by the neocons and religious right, of your nation as having a special and heroic destiny as defenders and propagators of liberty in the world. That this myth is strikingly similar to the myths Britain told itself during the hayday of our empire is no accident, for these myths are common to every empire, and of course America now treats the rest of the world with the disdain reserved for imperial territories, yet still seems unaccountably surprised by the resentment and hatred this causes.

The other area where I differ from this analysis is that it seems to imply that if people are not heroes, they are cowards. I don't buy this dichotomy and remember well what one highly decorated WW2 veteran said to me, that there was only the slenderest gap, and a moments indecision, between his decorations, and being shot for desertion. People need wisdom more than courage. What is true is that behind the rhetoric of heroism sold to both the US and Germany by Bush and Hitler is the politics of paranoia and fear, and I find it hard to distinguish between the myth of a world wide Zionist conspiracy that the Nazis peddled and the equally improbable myths, peddled by your extreme right, of Eurabia and the destruction of Western liberal civilisation by a new Islamic empire.

What does concern me greatly is that so many of the things that underpin and protect our freedom are under attack in the name of what Washington calls the "war" on terror. The independence of the judiciary, and freedom from imprisonment without trial, are not trivial things and should not be given up lightly. It is also unfortunate that the ruthless market driven media that we have now, sees no obligation to treat these things with more care and thought, in a situation where nightmares and paranoia will sell a lot more papers than reason and hope.

Where will it go from here? Since 9/11 the security services in the UK and the US have made several high profile arrests of suspected terrorist cells, yet I can only recall one case that resulted in convictions. What should we do about this? Should we just forget about judicial process entirely and let the police imprison anyone they want to for any amount of time, or why not create a really effective secret police with permission to use unorthodox methods to get better intelligence, or both? If the enemy has no respect for life, we have to be equally ruthless to deal with him.

Where does it end?

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"Knowledge is Power. France is Bacon" - Milton

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Sxeptomaniac

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Icon 1 posted June 29, 2006 17:19      Profile for Sxeptomaniac   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Some valid concerns does not make the whole article worthwhile, IMO.

The thing that really annoys me is that the author takes all of the beliefs of those who support Bush, or even are just neutral regarding his presidency, and explains it away as cowardice. Explaining away opposition in such simplistic terms designed to make them seem like bad people strikes me as very similar to the way Hitler operated. Basically, the author is saying that if you join him in opposing Bush you're brave, otherwise, you're a coward. It's exactly the kind of statement a demagogue would make, attempting to make his followers feel good about themselves and shame the rest.

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Let's pray that the human race never escapes from Earth to spread its iniquity elsewhere. - C. S. Lewis

Posts: 1590 | From: Fresno, CA | Registered: Mar 2005  |  IP: Logged
Colonel Panic
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Icon 1 posted June 29, 2006 18:10      Profile for Colonel Panic         Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
No, Bush is not a Nazi.

Being a liar, fear monger and somebody who invades a country in violation of the Geneva Convention does not make a person a Nazi. Simply because some of these values are shared doesn't mean they belong to the same country club. These traits may cause some Nazi's to admire the "W," but that's as far as it goes.

On the subject of the liar-and-fear-monger-in-chief, I'm amused at his, and most of his righty friends' recent efforts to paint the New York Times as a treasonous organization for revealing information about SWIFT, the banking organization that's "super-secretly" tracking the terrorist money -- at least according to righty.

Here's their website. You can learn all about the program. Even sign up for their magazine, too. Osama's reading it, you can be sure.

http://www.swift.com/

So what is Bush whining about now? Easy -- Boooooooooo! Scary kids! Just more of the stupid lies that got us into this war. Bush is fear mongering again, and the bottom-feeders are once again diving to take the bait.

What bothers me is that these folks have time for this rubbish about the war, but they don't have the inclination to win it. And if you're not willing to win a war, then don't get in one.

Mo-Man, remember what THAT was like? I'd like to forget it.

Look, as I've written before, there are 60-million righties who say they support Bush and his dirty little war. But there are only a few thousand of them who have shown the courage to pick up a gun and fight. The rest are yellow-bellied cowards. And they are the real reason we have lost this war.

So on the coward count, the writer of the article is dead on.

Colonel Panic

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Free! Free at last!

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GameMaster
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Icon 1 posted June 29, 2006 18:12      Profile for GameMaster   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Evokation of Godwin's Law in the first post???
Is this a new record?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rules_of_the_Internet#Rule_.234_.28Godwin.27s_Law.29

Started reading, disagreed, realized it was drivel, left the site.

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My Site

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Metasquares
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Icon 1 posted June 29, 2006 18:24      Profile for Metasquares   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Sxeptomaniac:
Frankly, it's a lot of simplistic drivel based more on the author's conceptions about the right and wrong side than a knowledge of history. There was a lot more to Hitler's rise in Germany than some kind of cowardism/bravery dichotomy, such as the perceived injustices following WWI and the severe depression. While some parallels can easily be drawn between Bush and Hitler, there are also quite a few differences. Simply put, I don't believe there is any way that Bush could retain power. He hasn't made moves to do so, nor has he ever had the kind of support he would need.

I was going to post my own views on this, but they're basically the same as yours, so I'll just say I agree.
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Metasquares
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Icon 1 posted June 29, 2006 18:27      Profile for Metasquares   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by GameMaster:
Evokation of Godwin's Law in the first post???
Is this a new record?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rules_of_the_Internet#Rule_.234_.28Godwin.27s_Law.29

Started reading, disagreed, realized it was drivel, left the site.

I never understood why Godwin's Law became so popular, as if it were a physical law. I mentioned that the same thing happens with time travel in sufficiently long-running sci-fi series, but that doesn't mean I need to have a "law" named after me.
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Jace Raven

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Icon 1 posted June 29, 2006 18:48      Profile for Jace Raven         Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Rule #0 (There Is No Cabal)
YUSS! BY EVERYTHING THAT IS HOLY AND GOOD AND PERL! Someone has finially gotten it right.
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The Famous Druid

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Icon 1 posted June 29, 2006 19:02      Profile for The Famous Druid     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Callipygous:
Since 9/11 the security services in the UK and the US have made several high profile arrests of suspected terrorist cells, yet I can only recall one case that resulted in convictions.

... but several that resulted in innocent people being shot.

I've been to countries where people are more afraid of their own "security forces" than they are of "The Enemy", and I don't like to see my country becoming one of them.

btw - I can't remember anything interesting happening on the 9th of November...

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If you watch 'The History Of NASA' backwards, it's about a space agency that has no manned spaceflight capability, then does low-orbit flights, then lands on the Moon.

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Metasquares
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Icon 1 posted June 29, 2006 19:29      Profile for Metasquares   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Jace Raven:
quote:
Rule #0 (There Is No Cabal)
YUSS! BY EVERYTHING THAT IS HOLY AND GOOD AND PERL! Someone has finially gotten it right.
There is a cabal if you want there to be one.
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Xanthine

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Icon 1 posted June 29, 2006 21:17      Profile for Xanthine     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by The Famous Druid:
quote:
Originally posted by Callipygous:
Since 9/11 the security services in the UK and the US have made several high profile arrests of suspected terrorist cells, yet I can only recall one case that resulted in convictions.

... but several that resulted in innocent people being shot.

I've been to countries where people are more afraid of their own "security forces" than they are of "The Enemy", and I don't like to see my country becoming one of them.

btw - I can't remember anything interesting happening on the 9th of November...

Maybe you mean the 5th...

Unless you're referring to US midterm elections, which will be happening on Nov. 7th this year.

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And it's one, two, three / On the wrong side of the lee / What were you meant for? / What were you meant for?
- The Decemberists

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maximile

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Icon 1 posted June 30, 2006 03:10      Profile for maximile   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
It's a date-format joke, unless I'm missing it too. [Wink]

He's trying to be more like me. [Smile]

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drunkennewfiemidget
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Icon 1 posted June 30, 2006 04:31      Profile for drunkennewfiemidget     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Xanthine:
quote:
Originally posted by The Famous Druid:
quote:
Originally posted by Callipygous:
Since 9/11 the security services in the UK and the US have made several high profile arrests of suspected terrorist cells, yet I can only recall one case that resulted in convictions.

... but several that resulted in innocent people being shot.

I've been to countries where people are more afraid of their own "security forces" than they are of "The Enemy", and I don't like to see my country becoming one of them.

btw - I can't remember anything interesting happening on the 9th of November...

Maybe you mean the 5th...

Unless you're referring to US midterm elections, which will be happening on Nov. 7th this year.

He's cracking a joke about how Americans get date formatting wrong. 9/11 would be the 9th day of the 11th month -- November 9th.
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TheMoMan
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Icon 1 posted June 30, 2006 06:13      Profile for TheMoMan         Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Colonel Panic________________You too, I don't wake up from bad night mares as often, only about two or three times a year. My wife has learned on those nights to let me get up and set in the recliner, even the smells come back, I think that the smells are the worst especially the smell of fresh let blood. Cordite and rocket fumes arn't so bad, but the smell of swamps still gets my attention. Sounds, I was a rescue Corpsman, and often the wake up call was the sound of the starters on the birds, The plant I worked at had some big vacuum pumps (turbine type) one morning I was going into work late and the job setter for the test room started the turbines, as I was walking in. That totally caught me off gaurd, I remember going turtle and looking around wondering were did all these cars come from. That threw me off for about three months. Kawhoomp followed by phfft will still put me on the ground.

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Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.


Benjamin Franklin,

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Jace Raven

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Icon 1 posted June 30, 2006 08:02      Profile for Jace Raven         Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by TheMoMan:
Colonel Panic________________You too, I don't wake up from bad night mares as often, only about two or three times a year. My wife has learned on those nights to let me get up and set in the recliner, even the smells come back, I think that the smells are the worst especially the smell of fresh let blood. Cordite and rocket fumes arn't so bad, but the smell of swamps still gets my attention. Sounds, I was a rescue Corpsman, and often the wake up call was the sound of the starters on the birds, The plant I worked at had some big vacuum pumps (turbine type) one morning I was going into work late and the job setter for the test room started the turbines, as I was walking in. That totally caught me off gaurd, I remember going turtle and looking around wondering were did all these cars come from. That threw me off for about three months. Kawhoomp followed by phfft will still put me on the ground.

Sounds get me. The sounds of fireworks tear me up. I was telling Xan not too long ago about the last time I was at disneyland (about a month after I had recently returned home) durring their fireworks show; I went nuts. The sounds of a car backfiring, generators, the smell of deisel fuel. The worst, though, is the smell of rot. There have been more than a few nights that have gone sleepless but Doc says it will dwindle and eventually just go away.

There are too many days that go by that I wish they would just let us go in and finish the job and call it quits.

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TheMoMan
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Icon 1 posted June 30, 2006 10:11      Profile for TheMoMan         Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Jace Raven____________________________Welcome to the select few. They always say that it will fade, until some unrelated news story or insignificant sound or smell will set you off. I know that you have probably seen the vidieos of the Challenger comming apart. About two days later I woke up smelling buring av-gas, My first rescue involved 24 men trapped in a C-124 globemaster, that crashed on landing, we were pulling bodies out of the burning wreck. Half of those men lived, you know the rest of the story.

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Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.


Benjamin Franklin,

Posts: 5848 | From: Just South of the Huron National Forest, in the water shed of the Rifle River | Registered: Sep 2002  |  IP: Logged
Oz, the Wizard of
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Icon 4 posted July 01, 2006 02:52      Profile for Oz, the Wizard of   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Singularity is the death math of religious/academic Godism.

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Pay no attention to that man behind the curtain!

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uilleann
Discontinued


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Does ASM have an alter ego?
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dragonman97

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Icon 1 posted July 02, 2006 10:38      Profile for dragonman97   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Oz...wow...that's fantastic. Thankfully I didn't read more than 5 sentences (if you can call them that), otherwise my eyes would probably bleed.

t3h colors!11!1!!!!!!111!!

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There are three things you can be sure of in life: Death, taxes, and reading about fake illnesses online...

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GrumpySteen

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dragonman97 wrote:
Thankfully I didn't read more than 5 sentences (if you can call them that), otherwise my eyes would probably bleed.

t3h colors!11!1!!!!!!111!!


Heh... you think that's bad? Gene has actually calmed down a bit and improved the appearance of his web site over the last few years. Thanks to the internet archive, you can experience what I think was the peak of Gene's web design madness from around the end of 2000 through the first half of 2001 (try may 15th, 2001). Enjoy!

I also made a lame parody back in 2002. [Smile]

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Xanthine

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Icon 1 posted July 02, 2006 14:01      Profile for Xanthine     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by uilleann:
Does ASM have an alter ego?

Yes. He writes the Flat-Earther website.

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And it's one, two, three / On the wrong side of the lee / What were you meant for? / What were you meant for?
- The Decemberists

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Serenak

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Icon 1 posted July 02, 2006 14:12      Profile for Serenak     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
never mind the colours.... DID HE HAVE TO KEEP SHOUTING SO MUCH!!!!

Arrrggghhhh

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"So if you want my address - it's No. 1 at the end of the bar, where I sit with the broken angels, clutching at straws and nursing my scars..."

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