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Author Topic: Canada's Good Qualities
Slurpy
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Icon 1 posted December 25, 2003 01:59      Profile for Slurpy     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
At Christmas Eve dinner with the family tonight, somehow we got onto the topic of gun control, and eventually I brought up the point that Canada has significantly fewer gun-related deaths per year than the U.S.A. That moved the conversation towards the idea of emigrating to Canada, but aside from avoiding Big Brother, I couldn't really think of a good reason to do this. So basically, I'm wondering why the Canadians in the forum prefer Canada to the U.S. (or, at least, their image of the U.S., since most of you probably have never lived in both countries).

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Snaggy

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Icon 3 posted December 25, 2003 09:27      Profile for Snaggy   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
"What is the difference between Canadians and Americans?"
"Canadians know." [Big Grin]

Although there are many many similarities between our peoples, there are distinct differences. The ones that matter most to me are these... copied from
http://personal.nbnet.nb.ca/rosellam/Ten_Reasons_Canada_Is_Best.html

We are proud, without being arrogant.
We don't think we are the greatest. The United Nations' ranking of Canada as "the best country in which to live", while suggesting we should be more impressed with ourselves, does not feed a national braggart complex. We continue to be surprised when year after year, the same positive verdict comes in.

We are compasionate.
Canadians often favour compromises - or even no decision - over conflict and division. We think problems are not black or white and solutions don't come out of a box. We are not hung up on labels. So we have a capitalist economy with socialized medicine.

Our decision not to go with Iraq is a prime example of this. Canada views the world as a globe shared with other countries. America sees the world as filled with countries that should be like America.


oh yeah, almost forgot... we are funny. [Razz]


Here are a few other links I found that might help...

http://www.hc-sc.gc.ca/hecs-sesc/tobacco/roundtable/us_canada_culture.html

http://www.unitednorthamerica.org/simdiff.htm

Posts: 8111 | From: Canada | Registered: Jan 2000  |  IP: Logged
Xanthine

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Icon 1 posted December 25, 2003 10:31      Profile for Xanthine     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Um, your leader isn't a shubbery with the brains to prove it. 'Nuf said.

Just a warning dman (and you Canucks out there [evil] ): I'm very open to a post-doctoral fellowship and/or job outside the country after I graduate sometime in the next decade.

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And it's one, two, three / On the wrong side of the lee / What were you meant for? / What were you meant for?
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Orpheus
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Icon 1 posted December 25, 2003 11:05      Profile for Orpheus     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
yeah, if it weren't for the general lack of warmth I'd move. 'til this global warming thing kicks in though I'll just have to hope a sane presidential candidate pops up somewhere... *sigh*

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The Famous Druid

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Icon 1 posted December 25, 2003 12:33      Profile for The Famous Druid     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
I've never lived there, so I'll just post a link to the views of an American who's made the switch
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SpikeSpiegel
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Icon 1 posted December 25, 2003 15:02      Profile for SpikeSpiegel     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
'How do we get to Ottawa, we need to see teh new prime minister of Canada'
'Why you take the road?'
'This is Canada, we only have one road'

from a recent episode of south park. the new prime minister turned out to be saddam hussein [Eek!]

but canada does seem like a nice place to live and its shrub free!

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its been a while

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spungo
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Icon 1 posted December 25, 2003 15:18      Profile for spungo     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Apparently the difference between Canada and America is not gun ownership, per se, as there are roughly as many guns per capita in Canada. Michael Moore goes into this: his conclusion is that the vast disparity in gun-related crimes is due to the media, that the local news in American cities sensationalise urban crimes and perpetuate a culture of fear. Anyway Bowling for Columbine is a nice treatment of this.
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Slurpy
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Icon 1 posted December 25, 2003 17:58      Profile for Slurpy     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
I'm sure the fans of Moore's film will love this link.

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I must first reveal my personal bias in this discussion, since I worship at the 'First Church of PDF Really Sucks.'
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aberrantgeek
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Icon 1 posted December 25, 2003 18:22      Profile for aberrantgeek   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Free health care, its legal to file share, less media induced fear, and its not america.

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"Everyone's life sucks" -Jerry Seinfield

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Just_Jess_B

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Icon 9 posted December 25, 2003 18:49      Profile for Just_Jess_B   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
I get very tired of people playing the "Canada better/worse than America" game.

Each country has its faults. Really. I'm sure in Toronto, tonight, at least five people will freeze to death on Christmas night because they have no home, just like in New York City. Your sins are ours.

Perhaps instead of beating up countries, perhaps we can focus on the kindness of individuals, instead? The ability to speak against the American government without being murdered -- something that still happens all over the world -- is a privelege I particularly enjoy.

However, I do get offended. I get tired of people looking at me and rating my value as a human because of the country on my passport. Nearly three-thousand people from all over the world died because a small group of people were out to kill people who share the same primary country on my passport. Your countrymen died because they were near Americans. They were people who had jobs just like Canadians, who had families, just like Canadians, and even some Canadians died because of the idea of American evil.

I get so sick of people shooting down America, No, the American Dream is not as pretty as the picture; it's pretty hard to make it here. Yes, a lot of people have bought into the idea that their managerial jobs are safe while they are willing to outsource their subordinates' jobs to third-world countries. Yes, my peers are either living with their parents or are so deeply in debt the only way out would be to die at work and have their insurance pay up. No, America is not perfect, but it's not so bad, either.

It's not about fscking Bush, or Clinton, or Bush Sr., or Reagan, or Carter.... and so on. So Howard Dean or Hillary Clinton wins the election. You really think the Taliban will give up trying to assimilate the United States to purge us of our sins against Allah? They will renew their vigor, they may even succeed.

I admit, there are positives of all countries, but stop bashing America. You bash my friends, you bash my family, you bash the people I worry about.

And Xanthine -- remember that El Shrubbo and his insane posse is the reason DMan will arrive safely in two weeks on an airliner. If you're fine with the idea of wearing a burka and being murdered for being raped, then please, by all means, keep bashing. When we do this, it lets the world know clearly we are like Venice -- floating on underpinnings which are rotting out beneath us and will drown us sooner than later. I personally like being able to show my face, hands, and ankles. I like knowing that if a man looks at me lustfully, I will not be stoned for tempting him. I am secure in the knowledge my children will not be raised to wear bombs into Canada to kill your children.

If America falls, don't you think Canada's next?

Please kill this thread. I get so sick of having to turn away from the things I believe in to appease a mass of idealists or be sent to the slaughter by a large group of people who will berate me because I think that America, despite its great faults, is a decent place. I know what I say is unpopular. I hope I don't have to leave here for the same reasons I've left other places -- the Canada-America war has to stop. Please, please, stop.


Jess

Forget it. I just read the rest of this. I'm out of here. I'm an American, and America is part of me. You can't respect America and fall in line like all the rest of the Liberazi's, I have no place here.

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Opinion is not Truth; that is why each has its own definition. Illiteracy sucks.

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Xanthine

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Icon 1 posted December 25, 2003 19:59      Profile for Xanthine     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Jess, I flew across the country safely before and after 9/11 with minimal fear of anything other than the dudes at the ticket counter who tell me my flight was changed in the time it took me to get in and out of a taxi cab. More than one of those flights originated from NYC or D.C. Most of them were on United. I can't give you a solid number though - I lost track after my sophomore year. The nation's actions before and AFTER in the event have doen nothing to change that. If anything, with all this talk of Crusades, I am more afraid now than I was then.

If they want to kill us, they will. That is how determined these people are. The only defense I have is my refusal to be afraid. Both of the terrorists, and those who tell me to be quiet and grateful while everything I have stood for and my own ancestors have fought and died for is beaten into the dust by demagogues. If now, when I am afraid of the direction my government is going with respect to civil liberties, when I am sick of the marketing of fear and war, when the profit-margin is both God and King of our noble democracy, when my stomach turns at the thought of pre-emptive war, if now is not the time for me to stand up and say "I hate this shit! WTF were we thinking when we elected these corporate dicks?! Why isn't the guy I voted for in office?" then when is?

Honestly. All the men with guns I saw in Ecuador scared me less than the latest bon mots from our dear friends Ashcroft and Rumsfeld.

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Beth
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Icon 7 posted December 25, 2003 21:06      Profile for Beth   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
I love being Canadian. I love my country warts and all, and I love that while I was in Europe strangers would see my maple leaf on my backpack and start talking to me about being a Canadian. [Big Grin] I love our beer, toques and hockey, and -40C winters and +40C summers. [Smile] And where else could you find a Prime Minister/President/etc who didn't really speak either of his country's official languages fluently? [Wink]

I don't want to be an American, not because I have a problem with the States, but because I love being Canadian. [Smile]

One of the few things that I've ever seen stir the faint embers of Canadian patriotism: a beer commercial, of course. [Big Grin]

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"What are those Earth creatures called? Feathers, long bill, webbed feet .. go 'quack'...cats! I'm being nibbled to death by cats."

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Tut-an-Geek

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Icon 1 posted December 26, 2003 06:55      Profile for Tut-an-Geek   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Beth:
where else could you find a Prime Minister/President/etc who didn't really speak either of his country's official languages fluently?

Dubbya [Smile]
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GMx

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Icon 10 posted December 26, 2003 08:01      Profile for GMx     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Liberazi? Didn't he die a few years back? [Razz]
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Slurpy
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Icon 1 posted December 26, 2003 10:18      Profile for Slurpy     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Tut-an-Geek:
quote:
Originally posted by Beth:
where else could you find a Prime Minister/President/etc who didn't really speak either of his country's official languages fluently?

Dubbya [Smile]
Oh, the pain. . . [crazy]

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I must first reveal my personal bias in this discussion, since I worship at the 'First Church of PDF Really Sucks.'
-Bruce Tognazzini
http://thegeekgroup.org
Geek ID# 1162

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unclefungus
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Icon 6 posted December 26, 2003 20:41      Profile for unclefungus   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Canada's alright, never been there. But I think I'd not want to piss them off. The paranoid part of me says they're just waiting to f*ck someone up.

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Professional software should not have dancing paperclips.

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Zwilnik

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Icon 1 posted December 27, 2003 10:04      Profile for Zwilnik   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Perhaps someone should tell the US government that 'Blame Canada' was just a song in the South Park movie, not a serious suggestion.

first the attempt to shift the blame for the east coast power failure to the Canadians, now this...

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/3351547.stm

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The most important of which is the element of surprise.

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macmcseboy

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Icon 6 posted December 27, 2003 12:24      Profile for macmcseboy     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Ne moque pas les Canadiens ou les Québequois, or you'll have the war of 1812 again. I just happen to love this wonderful country, and Happen to speak both official languages anda bit of Spannish. I love my beer and hockey, and I am happy to know that most of the people behind th3e scenes of most effects heavy movies are Canadian. As a matter of fact a good deal of movies are now shot in Canada, more specifically in Toronto or Vancouver..... more recently here in my hometown of Victoria.

I have relatives in the States and Mexico and I have no problems with any of thoses countries. I hope they all have a happy new year. I also pray that we all end these day of war, may we all get along in peace.

ttyl

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Live long and prosper.

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The Famous Druid

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Icon 1 posted December 27, 2003 12:53      Profile for The Famous Druid     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Zwilnik:
Perhaps someone should tell the US government that 'Blame Canada' was just a song in the South Park movie, not a serious suggestion.

first the attempt to shift the blame for the east coast power failure to the Canadians, now this...

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/3351547.stm

Don't worry, I'm sure it will turn out to have been imported from Iraq.

/me should stop giving them ideas.

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SpikeSpiegel
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Icon 1 posted December 27, 2003 14:33      Profile for SpikeSpiegel     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Beth:
And where else could you find a Prime Minister/President/etc who didn't really speak either of his country's official languages fluently? [Wink]


isnt Paul Martin from french canada and fluent in both french and english i thought chretien was fluent in both too..

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its been a while

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Beth
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Icon 1 posted December 27, 2003 14:59      Profile for Beth   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
isnt Paul Martin from french canada and fluent in both french and english i thought chretien was fluent in both too..
Both are bilingual (at least "officially") yes. I was referring to Jean. Particularly in the past few years, you'd never know it to hear him speak either language... see this [Wink]

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cheezi git
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Icon 1 posted December 28, 2003 02:16      Profile for cheezi git     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Beth:
Both are bilingual (at least "officially") yes.

i thought being bilingual was about pleasuring your girlfriend?

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The Famous Druid

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Icon 1 posted December 28, 2003 02:58      Profile for The Famous Druid     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by cheezi git:
quote:
Originally posted by Beth:
Both are bilingual (at least "officially") yes.

i thought being bilingual was about pleasuring your girlfriend?
Dunno about that, but I hear Mr Martin is a cunning linguist. [evil]

btw - check out this site for a good, balanced view of Canadas place in the world.

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greycat

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Icon 1 posted December 29, 2003 08:31      Profile for greycat   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Just_Jess_B:
It's not about fscking Bush, or Clinton, or Bush Sr., or Reagan, or Carter.... and so on. So Howard Dean or Hillary Clinton wins the election. You really think the Taliban will give up trying to assimilate the United States to purge us of our sins against Allah? They will renew their vigor, they may even succeed.

Healing does not happen instantaneously. No, those whom we have wronged will not forgive us overnight, and we may yet face many future tragedies in retaliation for the atrocities we have committed in the past. But WE MUST STOP COMMITTING ATROCITIES. We cannot continue on our present course.

Getting Bush the hell out of the White House would be a good start.

quote:
I admit, there are positives of all countries, but stop bashing America. You bash my friends, you bash my family, you bash the people I worry about.
Who's bashing America? Nobody in this thread has done anything like that. I criticize America (by which I mean the USA) because I think there's still hope for redemption. We can go back to what we once were. But we must start by being honest and informed about what we are.

quote:
And Xanthine -- remember that El Shrubbo and his insane posse is the reason DMan will arrive safely in two weeks on an airliner.
Xanthine has already answered this one.

quote:
If you're fine with the idea of wearing a burka and being murdered for being raped, then please, by all means, keep bashing.
The USA is still one of the better places in the world when it comes to human rights for its own citizens. Nobody (on this site) ever said we wanted to take away women's civil rights or revert to a brutal fundamentalist culture.

But when you juxtapose this paragraph with the surrounding text in your message, you create the false impression that we must either continue our course of aggression against all the countries of the Middle East, or we will be conquered by them. If you honestly think this way, I think you're letting your fears undermine your reason. That's what the bad guys (Bush et al.) want you to do. Don't give in to them.

quote:
If America falls, don't you think Canada's next?
"Falls" is a very interesting word. First of all, it implies a position of height, from which one could fall. Height or altitude, in American culture, is synonymous with domination. (Thanks to Le Guin's The Dispossessed for bringing that one to my attention.) We say "he works under me" to mean that we have power over him.

We also use the word "fall" as in the phrase "fall from Grace", to mean a spiritual or moral failure. (The etymology of this one is crystal clear -- the Christian stories of Satan's fall, and of Adam and Eve's fruit fiasco.)

And, of course, there's the meaning which you probably intended here, which is "to lose a defensive military battle", as in the fall of Helm's Deep. This is usually used in the context of a siege of some physical location, such as a fortress or castle, or city.

I'm getting the distinct impression that you think an army of Muslim warriors is going to swim across the Mediterranean Sea, and then the Atlantic Ocean, and invade the United States. And that in order to prevent this, we need to get more guns, more bombs, more police, more security, more restrictive laws, etc.

Why would they do that? (They hate us.) Why do they hate us? What did we do to them? Ah... what the US news media have neglected to tell you. Well, some of it's obvious -- for instance, we invaded Iraq on trumped-up allegations of "weapons of mass destruction", killed a few thousand civilians, destroyed most of their pitiful economic infrastructure, and "liberated" them from a horrible dictator. Yes, Hussein was an evil guy -- nobody disputes that. But I don't think Iraq is free from dictators just yet. Right now, the corporations who paid for all of those political campaigns are starting to slice up the pie. All of Cheney's friends are going to become even richer in the next few years.

And that's just the most recent and most obvious crime we've committed. Do some research and you'll learn about some of the others. Hint 1: where did Saddam get all of those alleged WMDs in the first place? Hint 2: where did Osama Bin Laden learn all those sneaky ways of killing? While you're at it, look closely at Israel and Palestine. But look fast, because Palestine's almost gone now.

But I'm really, honestly intrigued by your use of the word "falls" in that sentence. It says a lot, on many different levels.

quote:
Please kill this thread.
Submitting a long and controversial post to a thread is not a good way to kill it.

quote:
I get so sick of having to turn away from the things I believe in to appease a mass of idealists or be sent to the slaughter by a large group of people who will berate me because I think that America, despite its great faults, is a decent place. I know what I say is unpopular.
Nobody is asking you to sacrifice your principles or your beliefs! Please, keep them! What we need in the USA right now are more principles, and the courage to exercise them. If we could get Bush, Cheney and Rumsfield to exercise certain basic principles (such as "don't kill people unless it's in self defense"), we'd be a much happier and less-worried nation right now.

quote:
I hope I don't have to leave here for the same reasons I've left other places -- the Canada-America war has to stop. Please, please, stop.
I don't see any Canada-America war. Did the stormtroopers miss Ohio? You'd think the amphibious corps coming across Lake Erie would've come right through here on their way to Kentucky and lands south...

I'd like to close this with the Pledge of Resistance:

quote:
We believe that as people living
in the United States
it is our responsibility
to resist the injustices
done by our government,
in our names

Not in our name
will you wage endless war
there can be no more deaths
no more transfusions
of blood for oil

Not in our name
will you invade countries
bomb civilians, kill more children
letting history take its course
over the graves of the nameless

Not in our name
will you erode the very freedoms
you have claimed to fight for

Not by our hands
will we supply
weapons and funding
for the annihilation of families
on foreign soil

Not by our mouths
will we let fear silence us

Not by our hearts
will we allow whole peoples
or countries
to be deemed evil

Not by our will
and Not in our name

We pledge resistance

We pledge alliance with those
who have come under attack
for voicing opposition to the war
or for their religion or ethnicity

We pledge to make common cause
with the people of the world
to bring about justice,
freedom and peace

Another world is possible
and we pledge to make it real.


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cheezi git
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Icon 1 posted December 29, 2003 09:19      Profile for cheezi git     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Just_Jess_B:


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