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Author Topic: The good, the bad and the ugly
Richard Wolf VI
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Icon 10 posted April 24, 2007 21:56      Profile for Richard Wolf VI   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
In every field of life exists this trinity, so I'm posting one of my favorites: Raster Internet-oriented image file types.

The Good: PNG.
The open source, lossless, full color format is taking over the terrain of static gifs and bmps. Making it quite useful to store logos and some photos without the constraints of quality or the worries of file size. Only known enemy: IE.

The Bad: GIF.
It's still one of the most popular, but one of the most rejected by the open source community. Its 256 palette seems prehistorical in our times, so it's use has been lowering as PNG's has been rising. The only thing left it has is the animation, but with the rise of Web 2.0 Flash has become more attractive for the web. Only future use: Powerpoint slide shows.

The Ugly: JPEG.
WTF are they still using it! Digital cameras should be banned from converting images to this lossy format. Dented edges, washed out colors, among other artifacts make it a very inferior competitor. There are alternatives: PNG, if you prefer quality over size, or TIFF, my personal favorite for digitalizing. Only good use: Censoring

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The same old iWanToUseaMac... Who am I fooling? I'm getting a Wii now, iWanToUseaMac isn't :P
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maximile

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Icon 1 posted April 25, 2007 13:50      Profile for maximile   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Are you crazy??

Obviously PNG is good for lots of stuff, and is the only choice if you want an alpha channel on the web.

But JPEG has no advantages over PNG? That's madness. From Wikipedia:

"JPEG will produce a smaller file than PNG for photographic (and photo-like) images since it uses a lossy encoding method specifically designed for photographic image data. Using PNG instead of a high-quality JPEG for such images would result in a large increase in filesize (often 5–10 times) with negligible gain in quality."

JPEG is ideal for use in digital cameras, and now we're past all that patent business it's perfect for use for photographic images on the web.

Posts: 1085 | From: London, UK (Powys, UK in hols) | Registered: Feb 2005  |  IP: Logged
Richard Wolf VI
SuperBlabberMouth!
Member # 4993

Icon 10 posted April 25, 2007 14:02      Profile for Richard Wolf VI   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
I'm always prefer lossless over lossy even if it has less support or bigger sizes. Is a personal perspective. For small or dark photos, PNG beats JPEG easily where compression is worthless and quality is demanding. In other cases, I'd go for TIFF, even if its support isn't as extensive as it should be, it has a better lossless compression for photos. RAW goes third, but support and file sizes might improve.
I'm a perfectionist so I hate that horrid tiles generated by JPEG artifacts, JPEG was made for the the 14k-28k baud modems in the early WWW years, now things have changed and size is not a priority when you have 500k+ bandwidth. JPEG should be dead. At least is dead for me.

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The same old iWanToUseaMac... Who am I fooling? I'm getting a Wii now, iWanToUseaMac isn't :P
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The Famous Druid

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Icon 1 posted April 25, 2007 14:03      Profile for The Famous Druid     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
PNG also takes way more processor power than jpg, which would mean a significant delay between shots if it was your cameras standard format.

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If you watch 'The History Of NASA' backwards, it's about a space agency that has no manned spaceflight capability, then does low-orbit flights, then lands on the Moon.

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Richard Wolf VI
SuperBlabberMouth!
Member # 4993

Icon 10 posted April 25, 2007 14:12      Profile for Richard Wolf VI   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
My original intention was that people showed off their personal trio, I just gave an example.
Chill out. [Roll Eyes]
Hopefully it wasn't Windows, MacOS X and Linux.
I might be dead.

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The same old iWanToUseaMac... Who am I fooling? I'm getting a Wii now, iWanToUseaMac isn't :P
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Infinitesimal
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Icon 1 posted April 26, 2007 00:39      Profile for Infinitesimal     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
You wouldnt be dead.
However you would be well cooked and slightly charred. the flames get hot around such things. [devil wand]

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That which doesn't kill you can only make you stronger. Therefore I am damn near indestructable.

Posts: 153 | From: Melbourne, Australia | Registered: Jan 2006  |  IP: Logged
Huicho
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Icon 1 posted April 27, 2007 10:04      Profile for Huicho     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
I like GIF for some stuff because it allows you to have transparent backgrounds. Not every application needs tons of colors. But yes I like PNG.
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Sxeptomaniac

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Icon 1 posted April 27, 2007 17:18      Profile for Sxeptomaniac   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by iWanToUseaMac:
Hopefully it wasn't Windows, MacOS X and Linux.
I might be dead.

Hmmmm. I just might tempt fate and classify OSX as The Good, Windows as The Bad, and Linux as The Ugly. [devil wand]

However, let me explain my rational: I wasn't thinking so much of which ones are better as which ones are most like each of the three main characters in the movie. OSX is often seen as the good guy, even if not always perfect or nice, while Windows is the one more people would want to see end up in a shallow grave. [evil] Linux, on the other hand, isn't always as good-looking and polite as the other two (though I readily admit it's getting there), but it is formidable and not easily killed.

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Let's pray that the human race never escapes from Earth to spread its iniquity elsewhere. - C. S. Lewis

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GrumpySteen

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Icon 1 posted April 27, 2007 17:21      Profile for GrumpySteen     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
*offers Sxeptomaniac a Nomex jumpsuit*

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Worst. Celibate. Ever.

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uilleann
Discontinued


Icon 1 posted April 27, 2007 21:21            Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
*sigh*

Two words: Chroma subsampling. Turn that off and JPEG images no longer have all their red sections (or fine details) demolished. Learn how to use the format correctly.

Two more words: dial-up modem. Get real, PNG images are an absurd waste of bandwidth for photos.

Another two words: visual perception. I challenge anyone to pick up on the 8x8 grid squares on a well-encoded JPEG.

PNG images for photos online is a complete absurdity. As Internet connections speed up (say, if cable companies ever bother to dish out connections to the world's rural dwellings) we'll have long since gone onto 300 dpi screens needing 9x as many pixels for the same area of the display.

Besides, any decent digital camera has lossless image compression (typically TIFF) or raw format. My own cheap camera still uses ludicrous image sizes even at only medium compression -- when I re-save them for the Web the file size drops like a rock and the quality isn't affected.

The problem with JPEG images is that no-one knows how to use them properly! Get a program with live quality preview, set your camera to maximum quality or TIFF/RAW, and if you can't, shoot images for the Web at a much larger size and then reduce them down to average out the artefacts.

Note that using TIFF format will fill up your camera card very fast. I was out on a walk recently and ended up taking lots of shots at 5 MP. D'oh, I should have reverted to 2 as I filled up the card. (I only shoot for the Web, so 2 MP is already oversize)

GIF images also allow simple, low-bandwidth masking, without the overhead of a 32-bit PNG to obtain a mask, and without the worry of IE 5/6's alpha support.

Finally, just as a FYI, there are images where GIF compresses better than PNG. PNG is not universally superior. The true die-hard nerds (not me) would have to compare PNG vs GIF for each image, and maybe learn the pattern of when each one does better.

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quantumfluff
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Icon 12 posted April 28, 2007 06:28      Profile for quantumfluff     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
It's very simple.
.png - icons and embedded images in application software
.gif - animated images on web pages
.jpg - my porn collection

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uilleann
Discontinued


Icon 10 posted April 28, 2007 08:36            Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
[Big Grin]
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WinterSolstice

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Icon 1 posted April 28, 2007 09:27      Profile for WinterSolstice     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by quantumfluff:
It's very simple.
.png - icons and embedded images in application software
.gif - animated images on web pages
.jpg - my porn collection

Works for me [Big Grin]
I just wish my camera had the option to shoot different formats - it forces me to shoot a specific one, unless I do a *cough*firmware hack*cough*

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An operating system should be like a light switch... simple, effective, easy to use, and designed for everyone.

Posts: 1192 | From: Los Angeles | Registered: Oct 2001  |  IP: Logged
Richard Wolf VI
SuperBlabberMouth!
Member # 4993

Icon 10 posted April 28, 2007 11:57      Profile for Richard Wolf VI   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
I had a different intention with this topic.
I wished each one would show up a personal "good, bad & ugly" of any field without being commented, since all these things are mainly subjective.
I should have started with more "normal" stuff, my comment was very over the top.

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The same old iWanToUseaMac... Who am I fooling? I'm getting a Wii now, iWanToUseaMac isn't :P
Get Opera. The best web experience.
Contest. Group. Success.

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maximile

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Icon 1 posted April 28, 2007 12:36      Profile for maximile   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by iWanToUseaMac:
JPEG: WTF are they still using it!

Well, you did ask a question, so people answered. But okay, that sounds like a good idea.

Websites I use frequently:

The good: digg.com - does what it's supposed to do, rarely goes down, can be highly addictive. My kinda website.

The bad: Google IG - I love it, and it's my homepage, but it recently lost all my saved up RSS feeds. Ok, so I probably needed to clean it out anyway, but... grr...

The ugly: nationalrail.co.uk. I have to use this website around once every three weeks to book a train. And it is the *worst* website experience ever. Worst ever.

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WinterSolstice

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Icon 1 posted April 28, 2007 14:41      Profile for WinterSolstice     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Good: XBox 360
Bad: XBox
Ugly: PS3

Why? The XBox 360 has been a really nice improvement over the previous system, achieved pretty decent backwards-compatibility (though I have run into issues before with games I wanted).

The XBox was huge, heavy, ugly, quickly obsolete, and had possibly the worst controller since the atari. It really wasn't Atari Jaguar bad, but still a pretty lame excuse for a console.

The PS3 is obscenely expensive, very loud, and the controller ties with the old xbox controller for lame. Now, I've only used demo units at Target and Gamestop, so I could be mis-judging based on the extremely bad kiosk design. The "motion sensing" controller is sooooo bad. It seems to range from light motions to having to practically shake the damn thing in the same brief gaming session. By comparison, the Wii is very smooth and responsive. Also, the irony award goes to Sony for inventing a next gen console that is *still* being outsold by the previous console.

Ok, flamesuit activated [Big Grin]

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An operating system should be like a light switch... simple, effective, easy to use, and designed for everyone.

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Just_Jess_B

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Icon 1 posted April 28, 2007 15:29      Profile for Just_Jess_B   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Chick Flicks:

Good: Muriel's Wedding
Bad: Bridget Jones's Diary
Ugly: My Best Friend's Wedding

The Ugly:

First off, I really dislike Julia Roberts movies since Pretty Woman, and in retrospect, it was really because I was in my early twenties that I liked that film. The premise is stupid: two friends decide to get married to each other after a certain amount of time if neither can find a mate. She's insufferable; he's a dimwit. Right at the deadline, he finds a nineteen-year-old heiress to marry, played by Cameron Diaz. This is reason two I dislike this film: it's like casting a 40-year-old soprano as Juliet in the opera Romeo and Juliet! I can't suspend disbelief that she's a teen, okay?

Antics ensue, including the obligatory "gay friend pretending to be straight", stupid kisses, stupid breakups, stupid denouements, stupid wedding planning, stupid costuming, stupid hair. The heroine's lesson is learned in an instant, with the forced saccharine moment at the end. This was formulaic and weak. Plus, if I had wanted to see horsey smiles like Diaz and Roberts offer, I would have watched reruns of Mr. Ed.

The Bad:

She was cute in Jerry McGuire, but Renée Zellweger should never have been cast as Bridget Jones. A stupid premise about a stupid woman journaling and living her stupid life, she has a choice between "sexy" Hugh Grant (Buh, what?!) and the staid Colin Firth. Making dumb choices all around, she bumbles around in and out of bed with Hugh Grant until she finally ends up with Colin Firth. Sort of. Her British accent is awful, which is beautifully offset by the fact Colin and Hugh speak it, so you can hear how crappy it is. Her voice also just grates, her movements are twitchy at best and her facial expressions go from squinty glee to squinty disgust to squinty idiocy. Of course, I wasn't much a fan of the written Bridget Jones's Diary, but as a writer of Chick Lit (as well as Sci Fi) I have to know my genre.

Let's just say I felt I needed a shower after being known by this particular piece of the genre.


The Good:

If there was ever a genre-defining piece, this is it. Muriel Heslop is drowning in her life, desperate to become the beautiful princess for once in her life. Dumped by her "friends", Muriel follows them to an island resort to regain their acceptance, stealing the family's savings to do so.

Though the bimbo league rejects her, Muriel finds a friend in Rhonda, lying to her about having a fiancé so she won't sound as pathetic as she feels. She has a growth moment only to realize there are consequences when she arrives home. She is forced to change and she moves to Sydney, Australia. Unfortunately, she can't stop lying, even to Rhonda.

When Rhonda falls seriously ill and becomes disabled because of it, Muriel turns to the fantasy, building lie upon lie until she gets caught. She then gets the opportunity of a lifetime -- to marry a potential Olympic medalist who wants Australian citizenship so he can have a chance at the gold (in the Sydney Summer Olympics).

The bad things which happen aren't sugar-coated (cancer, rejection, suicide, affairs), and in the end, the character has developed, so when she makes her final choice, it makes sense.

And if you're an ABBA fan? DOUBLE BONUS!

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Opinion is not Truth; that is why each has its own definition. Illiteracy sucks.

Posts: 1370 | From: Whaddya mean, Arizona? | Registered: May 2003  |  IP: Logged
Serenak

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Icon 1 posted April 28, 2007 16:48      Profile for Serenak     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Sorry Max I have to disagree - ever tried booking a train on the One website? That has joys like "Press continue when ready to move to the next page..." only to find there is no continue button.

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"So if you want my address - it's No. 1 at the end of the bar, where I sit with the broken angels, clutching at straws and nursing my scars..."

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Callipygous
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Icon 1 posted April 28, 2007 17:23      Profile for Callipygous     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
It is perhaps wrong for a mere male to trespass onto the field of RomComs/chic flicks, but while I agree with you Jess about the excellent "Muriel's Wedding" and Toni Collette's marvellous central performance, I like Bridget Jones's diary a lot, and thought that Rene Zellweger was brilliant. Her accent was good enough to my ears that I didn't even think about it after the first few minutes, unlike say Meryl Streep where the accent usually dominates the performance and you are always aware of the strings. Rene Zellweger is a wonderful actress.

The films in this genre that I find infinitely more irritating are "Sleepless in Seattle" and "When Harry met Sally", mainly because I think you can always detect Meg Ryan's actual and distinctly unfluffy personality in her performances. Any way I just don't like her, and also for me a little Tom Hanks goes a long way, and I've just seen too much of him in those slightly sappy nice guy roles.

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"Knowledge is Power. France is Bacon" - Milton

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Sxeptomaniac

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Icon 1 posted April 28, 2007 19:05      Profile for Sxeptomaniac   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Steen:
*offers Sxeptomaniac a Nomex jumpsuit*

Perhaps it wasn't necessary after all. [Razz]

Hmmm. Now I wonder if the analogy was close enough to not upset anyone, or if the people who thought it was bad just didn't speak up for fear of initiating a flame war.

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Let's pray that the human race never escapes from Earth to spread its iniquity elsewhere. - C. S. Lewis

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Stibbons
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Icon 1 posted April 29, 2007 04:45      Profile for Stibbons   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by maximile:
The ugly: nationalrail.co.uk. I have to use this website around once every three weeks to book a train. And it is the *worst* website experience ever. Worst ever.

Have you tried thetainline?
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dragonman97

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Icon 1 posted May 01, 2007 07:21      Profile for dragonman97   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
http://spe.atdmt.com/b/HHHBOTJMXTJM/Mothers_day_300x250_r1.gif

Just saw that while reading something -- that's an image that really should have been sliced first, with the picture as a JPEG. The palette may have been indexed, but it's still...ugh.

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littlefish
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Icon 1 posted May 01, 2007 07:37      Profile for littlefish   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Is that the right address Dman? Nothing shows in camino.

Or is that the point?

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WinterSolstice

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Icon 1 posted May 01, 2007 07:51      Profile for WinterSolstice     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
I see a poorly dithered animated gif - in Safari. I think that image was a little over-compressed.

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An operating system should be like a light switch... simple, effective, easy to use, and designed for everyone.

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Serenak

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Icon 1 posted May 01, 2007 08:40      Profile for Serenak     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Well it doesn't seem that bad here, maybe not great but I have seen worse... as for the woman she is one freckly mother and no mistake...

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"So if you want my address - it's No. 1 at the end of the bar, where I sit with the broken angels, clutching at straws and nursing my scars..."

Posts: 1934 | From: Suffolk England | Registered: Sep 2004  |  IP: Logged


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