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Author Topic: Pretty or Smart
Richard Wolf VI
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Icon 10 posted March 23, 2007 22:09      Profile for Richard Wolf VI   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Hey, Shakira makes everybody drool at her petite hotness while having an IQ of 140, want a better model?
Nationalism rocks!

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ScholasticSpastic
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Icon 1 posted March 23, 2007 22:22      Profile for ScholasticSpastic     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Boo wrote:
I agree. And though some may have harped a bit on the 'beauty is nothing without brains,' point, that had nothing to do with my original question. Which, I thought was pretty clear.

At first sight, beauty over brains, because my innitial experience is purely sensory. However, If my perception of beauty is to continue, I'll require some brains. Additionally, the presence of brains can, over time, cause me to perceive a woman as beautiful even though I might not have given her a second look upon meeting her. Beauty and brains are subjective experiences and I suspect that's why you're not getting very firm answers to the question.

For me, there is no beauty beyond the first impression without brains.

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"As in repeating a well-known song, so in instincts, one action follows another by a sort of rhythm; if a person be interrupted in a song, or in repeating anything by rote, he is generally forced to go back to recover the habitual train of thought..." (Darwin, The Origin of Species)

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Callipygous
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Icon 1 posted March 24, 2007 01:01      Profile for Callipygous     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by boo:
And though some may have harped a bit on the 'beauty is nothing without brains,' point, that had nothing to do with my original question. Which, I thought was pretty clear.

Well it's not that clear, you can't just say pretty is better than smart because they are too different to make any meaningful comparison. It's like asking which are better, trousers or cars, though it is of course best to have both if you have a long journey to make. [Wink] You can ask other questions like:-

Would you rather be good looking and dumb, or smart and ugly? That is not a very interesting question to me as I can't change who I am, but I suppose I'd rather be happy than either, as attractiveness seems to me to be as much about self confidence as physical beauty.

Would you rather hang out with dumb but sexy, or smart but sexless? I would like to think that I am high minded and noble but know I'd have more fun with the first lot, because I love to flirt. I would just hate to live in a world without women, and I get bored very fast in the exclusive company of my own sex. I would not make a good monk.

Which group would you rather have a relationship with? Neither obviously, though meaningless sex with someone from the first group is fine for a short while until she starts to pall. Actually there is nothing that makes a woman lose her allure for me faster than boring conversation. Even an unattractive sounding voice turns me off. I once had a lovely, kind, and intelligent girlfriend, but who had a flat nasal voice and I couldn't help myself, despite wanting to make things work with her, the sound of her voice just destroyed it for me. Conversely there is nothing sexier than a musical slightly breathy voice. Well you don't see much when the lights are off do you? [Smile]

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boo
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Icon 1 posted March 30, 2007 20:32      Profile for boo     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Callipygous:
quote:
Originally posted by boo:
And though some may have harped a bit on the 'beauty is nothing without brains,' point, that had nothing to do with my original question. Which, I thought was pretty clear.

Well it's not that clear,
I think it's very clear: Here it is again.
quote:
Originally posted by boo:

Is one better than the other?

Are certain endowments, abilities, etc. inherently better than others?

The question was, is one ability or talent necessarily better than another? You got your innate ability to reason from your father, your incredible singing voice from your maternal grandmother, your math skills from your own mom, your good looks from your father, etc. Is one NECESSARILY better than another?

Stereo specifically singled out intelligence and sports ability and implied they were "better." I wondered if others agreed, and if so, why? Mostly I got "I'd rather be smart than pretty," answers, though that wasn't even close to be the question. [Big Grin] That's okay though, it is always interesting to hear what people have to say, even if they don't answer the actual question. [thumbsup]

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ScholasticSpastic
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Icon 1 posted March 31, 2007 10:31      Profile for ScholasticSpastic     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Oh, well, beauty then. I can begin contributing seed to your eugenics program tomorrow. Just let me know how you want the vials labeled.

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"As in repeating a well-known song, so in instincts, one action follows another by a sort of rhythm; if a person be interrupted in a song, or in repeating anything by rote, he is generally forced to go back to recover the habitual train of thought..." (Darwin, The Origin of Species)

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Spoongirl
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Icon 1 posted April 02, 2007 03:57      Profile for Spoongirl     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Oh, smart. All the way.

I've never been attracted to anyone that wasn't intelligent. So I guess that makes them pretty, at least to me.

Hmm. But still. Instinct says smart.

Smart completely equals sexy, in both looks and ability. Stereotypical nerdy looking geek types, male and female, are totally delicious, especially if they've got the brains behind it. Course, if you just look like that but you have no intelligence behind it, then bleh to you. You'll become unattractive. I wonder how that works. *ponders*

People that look clever are sexy. People that look clever and then you find out that they *are* clever are potential lovers. [Cool]

Never much cared for the Lindsay Lohans and Christina Spears types, looks wise. Can't say the common ideal of beauty ever held much attraction.

Meh. Girls like guys with skills. [Razz]

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drunkennewfiemidget
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Icon 1 posted April 02, 2007 10:22      Profile for drunkennewfiemidget     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by iWanToUseaMac:
Hey, Shakira makes everybody drool at her petite hotness while having an IQ of 140, want a better model?
Nationalism rocks!

I've seen her talk. I call bullshit.

She's smarter than the average pop star, but she's not smarter than the average bear.

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ScholasticSpastic
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Icon 1 posted April 03, 2007 01:19      Profile for ScholasticSpastic     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
140 isn't much. Hell, I've got that beat and I can pretty easily convince people I'm a short-busser on a bad day. Aim higher.

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"As in repeating a well-known song, so in instincts, one action follows another by a sort of rhythm; if a person be interrupted in a song, or in repeating anything by rote, he is generally forced to go back to recover the habitual train of thought..." (Darwin, The Origin of Species)

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Stereo

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Icon 1 posted April 03, 2007 04:45      Profile for Stereo     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by ScholasticSpastic:
140 isn't much. Hell, I've got that beat and I can pretty easily convince people I'm a short-busser on a bad day. Aim higher.

I wouldn't be so sure. Isn't 140 in the top 2 centiles? Any one can have a bad day, and IQ isn't a precise mesure of intelligence, any way. But my real point is rather about potential, on whether you tap into it or leave it to rot. Actually, I'd like to propose this equation:
quote:
I = sum(Ri*Si), i=[1..n]
With I being real intelligence, R is raw intelligence, and S (for scholar) the instruction level for that type of intelligence, for all types of intelligence.

(Warning, first attempt at MathML, and I need to prepare for work, so if there is an error, I'll correct it later. - Edit: didn't quite work. Maybe because it's considered HTML code? Or because I missed a more general tag? Anyway, I replaced it with another notation.)

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Eppur, si muove!

Galileo Galilei

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drunkennewfiemidget
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Icon 1 posted April 03, 2007 09:50      Profile for drunkennewfiemidget     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by ScholasticSpastic:
140 isn't much. Hell, I've got that beat and I can pretty easily convince people I'm a short-busser on a bad day. Aim higher.

135 will get you into mensa.
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Xanthine

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Icon 1 posted April 03, 2007 10:09      Profile for Xanthine     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
You must be shitting me. That's it? I thought Mensa was for, like, 150 and over or something.

I took a real IQ test once, long ago, but my parents never told me how I scored. I've taken some online IQ tests, but I'm not sure I trust them (even though I liked my scores).

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Stereo

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Icon 1 posted April 03, 2007 10:23      Profile for Stereo     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Actually, it depends - see there description page (it's a little past half-way). For short, not all tests are created equally, and they talk about results of about 132 to 148 depending on which test was taken. They do insist, though, that the person reach the top 2 percentile for the given test.

Xanth: my parents did the same. (They kept it with others school documents. So one day I was going through my old bulletins, I found it. Let's just say I am Mensa material. Not that it really matter, mind you.) So if your parents think anywhere close to mine, they didn't tell you so you wouldn't boast about it, so chances are there is something to boast about! [Big Grin]

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Eppur, si muove!

Galileo Galilei

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Icon 1 posted April 03, 2007 12:02      Profile for WinterSolstice     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
I took one and did well, though I don't recall the score.

Mensa is *dull* though. Why would you want to join? I mean seriously - these are the people who think of themselves as clever and made a clicque based on their own superiority. Yuck.

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Richard Wolf VI
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Icon 10 posted April 03, 2007 12:28      Profile for Richard Wolf VI   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
I've scored 138 points in English tests, I've never have taken an Spanish one.

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ScholasticSpastic
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Icon 1 posted April 03, 2007 12:46      Profile for ScholasticSpastic     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
A score of 138 just means you'd have beaten 140 with more sleep. IQ tests are silly. I took mine upside-down when I was nine because they thought I had ADHD and wanted to put me on drugs. I wasn't hyperactive, I was bored and had no respect for my slow teachers. Elementary school teachers can be some very disappointing people. The ones on South Park are frighteningly accurate sometimes.

I still haven't gotten my Mom to tell me what my score was, but a complex game of "higher-lower" after I got her drunk revealed to me that I'd beaten 140. I had guessed I was above 130 independently, but was surprised to learn my score was significantly better. I'll never really know my IQ because I took the test upside-down. We might assume it wouldn't have been significantly better, though, because I often liked to read novels upside-down at that age.

The issue I have with IQ scores is that half of the people we meet will always be below average. That's a huge downer for me. Screw IQ. I agree that mensa's boring, too. We have better things to do than making up puzzels and bragging about how great we are. If those clowns are so creative, why aren't they working on some of the legitimate puzzels that we're confronted by in science every day?

Holy wow, did you know that puzzel is Shakespear for hussy? That's so cool! I can go around calling people puzzels and they'll think I'm saying something about their personal depth... When I'm not! (Insert evil cackle here [devil wand] )

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"As in repeating a well-known song, so in instincts, one action follows another by a sort of rhythm; if a person be interrupted in a song, or in repeating anything by rote, he is generally forced to go back to recover the habitual train of thought..." (Darwin, The Origin of Species)

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Xanthine

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Icon 1 posted April 03, 2007 22:13      Profile for Xanthine     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Oh I'm not eager to join Mensa - I have other ways of finding friends. Whatever score I got was enough to land me in a gifted/talented program. One day, I will forgive my parents for putting me through that (long story, but this was not my choice) - gifted/talented programs are the perfect breeding grounds for social retardation. You've got a group of kids who've been in the same class together since grade one, and all the other kids know they're the "smart people" class and yeah, it's bad. Bad in ways you can't comprehend unless you've lived it. I would never enroll my kid in something like that.

My parents know their IQs, but they won't tell us what they are. I remember one evening at dinner my sister was trying to wheedle the info out of my parents. We established that both our parents scored high, and so did my sis and I. My sis did not score higher than my dad. When asked about me, all my dad would say was that my scores came out quirky (in some ways I'm really frickin' smart, in others I'm really frickin' dumb), and I could tell from the look on his face that I'd come out above him.

I've taken IQ tests online a few times. While I'm not sure how much I should trust the end result, I have noticed that day-to-day there's not much variation. However, I also noticed that my score rises or falls depending on how much use my brain is getting at a given time in my life (ie, I spent the summer between graduating from college and starting grad school essentially goofing off, and my score was about seven points lower then than it is now). I've also gotten a lot better at spatial reasoning since starting grad school, but that's been a question of practice - you can't do what I do and not get good at spatial relationships. It's one of those sink or swim things.

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And it's one, two, three / On the wrong side of the lee / What were you meant for? / What were you meant for?
- The Decemberists

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Icon 1 posted April 04, 2007 00:01      Profile for supergoo     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
I don't really want to know my IQ.

If it's too high, every time I'm stuck on a problem set I'll think "well I'm supposed to be smart, why can't I do this?"

If it's too low, I'll lose confidence in myself and wonder why I'm even at this engineering school anyway.

Then again, what does IQ measure? I find that it's generally the people who work the hardest and manage their time the most effectively who do best in school/life, not necessarily the smartest people.

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Y los sueños, sueños son.

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Richard Wolf VI
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Icon 10 posted April 04, 2007 00:46      Profile for Richard Wolf VI   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
I was thinking joining MENSA as soon as I move to Bogota.
I believe is not as snobbish as it seems, although I am also a snob [Razz]

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Mel
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Icon 1 posted April 25, 2007 21:17      Profile for Mel     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
The question should really read:

Would you rather be pretty and retarded, or smart and permanently deformed? In reality, any pretty lady can just pick up a book and become educated. The thing about these questions is that one side contains a choice (being smart), while the other is an unchangeable factor (physical perfection). You have to really narrow it down to get an appropriate answer.

Recently on the radio they stated a survey was done where 97% of women said they'd rather be pretty on the inside than on the outside. I think only 3% of the women surveyed were being honest. Being nice is a choice. You could be pretty on the outside, then choose to be a good person.

Sorry...I hear too many dumb questions in my life...

"Miss N, will you be my grad date?"

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Stereo

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Icon 1 posted April 26, 2007 08:25      Profile for Stereo     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Mel: [Applause] I think you have summarized the question (and exposed its inherent logical flaw) very nicely.

I'll only oppose this to your example: to admit there is a choice implies that results follow actions ("you reap what you sow"). But it's much easier to watch a dumbed-down movies than to read a high-flying novel (let alone an essay). It's much easier to care only for yourself than to care for others too. To wait to keep the door open for a mother and her young children means you have to delay (even if only by seconds) your own objective - and that you have to watch what's going on around you.

So those people who say they'd rather be pretty on the inside might really mean that they believe that the kind and selfless persons are best loved, but they (those who answered the survey) would rather have kindness as a second nature than having to work on it. Under this interpretation, they may be honest. (And I'd guess - half-jokingly - that the 3% who answered that they'd rather be pretty on the outside are the ones who are kind. But as they see their kindness go unacknowleged, while the pretty people gather everyone's attention, they want to switch places.)

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Eppur, si muove!

Galileo Galilei

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Just_Jess_B

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Icon 1 posted April 26, 2007 09:25      Profile for Just_Jess_B   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
I agree with you completely, Stereo. Mel, you did hit it right on the head, though I'm surprised so many women said they wanted to be pretty on the inside more than the outside when I see more made-up b-words in the world than happy, smiling, healthy women.

Of course, I live in SoCal Suburbia -- the land of the shallow and youth-obsessed. I mean, we have the MILF, but how many women would say, "Oh no, I don't want to be a MILF, I want to be a 'Mother-I'd-Feel-Safe-Discussing-My-Problems-To'."

The essence of it is: Women like sex and want to be wanted sexually. Also, if a man really wants regular sex like they complain they do? They should get married and help their wife be a woman who feels like a sex goddess, no matter how "ugly" she is.

-ct- and CommanderShroom can tell you that I'm no looker whatsoever, but yesterday morning I got flirted at by a guy in the grocery store (he's one of the workmen gutting and refurbishing the Starbucks going in near the grocery store). And yes, I know he was flirting with me because of the way he was talking to me and his body language. Why would a guy hit on a goofy, glasses-wearing, obese woman? Because the man at home (WinterSolstice) makes me feel sensual, beautiful, and gorgeous despite the gap between me and the cultural ideal.

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Opinion is not Truth; that is why each has its own definition. Illiteracy sucks.

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The Famous Druid

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Icon 1 posted April 26, 2007 09:36      Profile for The Famous Druid     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Just_Jess_B:
yesterday morning I got flirted at by a guy in the grocery store...
...Why would a guy hit on a goofy, glasses-wearing, obese woman? Because the man at home (WinterSolstice) makes me feel sensual, beautiful, and gorgeous despite the gap between me and the cultural ideal.

JJ, you are a very, very wise woman. [thumbsup] [Applause]

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dragonman97

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Icon 1 posted April 26, 2007 12:20      Profile for dragonman97   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Only loosely related...but when has that ever stopped us here: [ [Razz] ]
http://www.nytimes.com/2007/04/26/technology/26retouch.html

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Rhonwyyn

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Icon 1 posted April 26, 2007 13:16      Profile for Rhonwyyn   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Just_Jess_B:
but yesterday morning I got flirted at by a guy in the grocery store (he's one of the workmen gutting and refurbishing the Starbucks going in near the grocery store). And yes, I know he was flirting with me because of the way he was talking to me and his body language. Why would a guy hit on a goofy, glasses-wearing, obese woman? Because the man at home (WinterSolstice) makes me feel sensual, beautiful, and gorgeous despite the gap between me and the cultural ideal.

Awww...!!! There's another of me out there! It sounds like your husband is like mine and totally enraptured with you. Unfortunately, the voices in my head are louder than my husband's. [ohwell]

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Just_Jess_B

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Icon 1 posted April 26, 2007 15:02      Profile for Just_Jess_B   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Rhonwyyn:
Awww...!!! There's another of me out there! It sounds like your husband is like mine and totally enraptured with you. Unfortunately, the voices in my head are louder than my husband's. [ohwell]

Closer than you think, actually, because I have the same problem. WinterSolstice tells me, but I still don't always feel it. It was a surprise to have the flirtation happen, but I suppose because I'd talked to him recently and was feeling chipper, it happened.

It was actually funny, because, a minute later I was laughing to myself, realizing that the exchange this guy and I had was actually him trying to initiate a pick-up or something, and I wass polite but blew it off in a "Yeah, he's being friendly-talky like people tend to do" way. But the people who are like that have different body language.

Oh well, neither here nor there. Just pointing out it can happen. [Big Grin]

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Opinion is not Truth; that is why each has its own definition. Illiteracy sucks.

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