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Author Topic: Opinions, if you please...
geekgoddess
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Icon 2 posted December 23, 2007 01:51      Profile for geekgoddess     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
I'm fairly new to the board, I just was hoping to get some opinions on my situation with my bf. Any advice would be greatly appreciated!

My bf and I have been together going on three years (we've lived together for almost 2 1/2 of those years)and recently we've been having some issues.

I hold down a full time job, and a full time class schedule at the local University. I also plan all of our meals, grocery shop, cook, clean up after meals, and keep a clean house. In addition to all of this, I'm very involved with his family and friends and take care of all social plans/gifts etc. My bf only works a full time job, and I have ask him for any help around the house (and when I do he claims I'm "nagging" him.)When he does help (he often "forgets"), its usually a substandard job and I have to follow after him to make sure it gets done right. He also goes MIA for hours at a time, where I can't reach him on his phone. When he returns from wherever he was, he says he's "lost track of time."

I'm frustrated!I work very hard at being a great gf. 99% of my friends are male and they tell me on a regular basis how lucky they would feel to have a gf who takes care of so much. Its particularly hard to hear from them how great of a girl I am and how my bf doesn't deserve me. I really don't ask for very much from my bf. To load some dishes here, and pick up his own clothes, etc. etc. When I am taking care of the bulk of the house work, you would think that he'd be happy to help.

About 2 weeks ago I came home, at my wits end, and told him that I was going to find another place to live and that I wasn't happy with him anymore. He begged and groveled and told me that he loved me and that I am amazing and he would do anything to make me stay. Fast forward to present time. I STILL am doing all of the housework, still feel under appreciated, and tonight he is nowhere to be found. He left for a holiday cocktail party at 6pm this evening and its nearly 2 am and I can't reach him on his phone.

Does anyone have any ideas? When I confronted him and asked if he was interested in dating other girls he said he wasn't. I haven't been getting the cheating vibe from him, but who knows. Is it actually possible to get a man to help out around the house? And what do you have to do to get someone to appreciate you? I'm already so stressed out with school and work, and this really isn't helping...

I do apologize if my post doesn't make sense. LOL. Its late, I'm tired and I'm also upset... [Frown]

As I've said before, any and all advice would be helpful! I would love an objective opinion.

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Posts: 79 | From: The Abyss | Registered: Nov 2007  |  IP: Logged
Ashitaka

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Icon 1 posted December 23, 2007 02:29      Profile for Ashitaka     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Sit down and have a talk with him. Split the housework. THEN DO NOT DO HIS PART.

Oh, and don't give hiom jobs like cleaning the toilet. We men use pretty rancid facilities. Give him jobs like cooking dinner on weeknights, so if he doesn't do it, he doesn't get fed.

Laundry would also be a good chore. It will be pretty hard for him to find a new gf if his cloths haven't been washed in a long time.

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Posts: 3089 | From: Switzerland | Registered: Feb 2006  |  IP: Logged
Grummash

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Icon 1 posted December 23, 2007 03:15      Profile for Grummash     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
geekgoddess - This, I'm afraid, may not sound too supportive but I think other GC'ers may echo the following thoughts.

You've had the "lets fix our relationship" talk and it hasn't worked. So either you are simply in an unequal partnership or the relationship has run its course.

I suspect that your only realistic options are to either quietly accept what you have, or move on. It sounds to me like you have a lot to offer a partner who can appreciate you. Go and find one.

I didn't mean to sound harsh, but before I was married I wasted a couple of years staying in a relationship that should have been ended much earlier. Life is too short and youth is too precious. Have courage and I am sure you will find your reward.

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GrumpySteen

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Icon 1 posted December 23, 2007 06:33      Profile for GrumpySteen     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
You aren't his girlfriend. You're his free live in maid with benefits. Why would he want to change that since you've demonstrated that he can spend an hour grovelling and get you to keep doing everything for him?

Go through with your threat and get your own place. He'll either start doing chores or he'll wallow in his own filth. Whether you want keep dating him or not will become pretty obvious in time.

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spungo
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Icon 1 posted December 23, 2007 07:24      Profile for spungo     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Simply put -- there is a difference between you. No surprise, as you're two different people. However annoyed you may feel, you have to accept that no one is categorically correct in these matters -- there is the little matter of one's right of opinion. You can't make people think the way you do (and why anyone would wish this, I don't know). It's also somewhat unfair on your bloke to canvas views from others without allowing him to present his side of things. It's like you've decided that you're right, and you want others to validate your perspective.

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Posts: 6529 | From: Noba Scoba | Registered: Jan 2002  |  IP: Logged
geekgoddess
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Icon 1 posted December 23, 2007 10:03      Profile for geekgoddess     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Thank you, everyone, for your advice! [Big Grin]

I think it probably is a a combination of all of those things...Yes, I have demonstrated that by groveling I'll stay (silly on my part, but of course when you love someone you want to believe that they will 'change their ways'), yes, the relationship has probably run its course,and yes, I certainly HAVE let myself become a live-in maid with benefits. I'm the kind of girl that doesn't just tell you that she loves you, I'm also a nurturer. I make it my job to see that the other person is happy, comfortable and well cared for. In this particular instance, it hasn't worked out so well.

Spungo, I certainly haven't meant to paint 'my bloke' (as you call him) in a negative light. If he didn't have some redeeming qualities I wouldn't be with him in the first place. But being handsome , witty, smart and funny only goes so far when you are over-loaded and severely under appreciated.

I come home from a 10 hour work day, cook dinner, clean up, do schoolwork, and then go to bed around 1am every day. On weekends I plan our meals for the week, grocery shop, 'deep clean' our house, pay our bills, and handle all other chores that I don't have time for during the week. He works his day, comes home, eats my food, leaves his plate on the table without so much as the OFFER to help clean up, then he escapes to our office where he plays online for several hours until he goes to bed. I honestly can not remember the last time he lifted a hand to help out around here prior to the 'talk' we had a few weeks ago. Since then I believe he's unloaded one load of dishes and taken out one bag of trash. In two weeks.

In other news, he left for a cocktail party at about 6pm last night and didn't return until about 9:15 this morning. He didn't so much as call/text to tell me that he was still alive.

The lack of effort, consideration and respect has gotten to me. I've had several men tell me that the would jump for joy if they met a girl who cooked, cleaned, paid all of her own bills, had direction in life and was putting herself through college.

Prior to meeting me my bf lived in a 'bachelor pad' that literally had pizza boxes on the floor and beer bottles strewn about. The place was so cluttered that you had to step around things to make it from one room to another. He ate fast food three meals a day. I guess that what's baffling to me is that in the years that we've been together he's been able to forget about his previous lifestyle and become so accustomed to his current one that he takes me for granted.

At any rate, thank you for your wise words! I will have to decide what to do about it.

Posts: 79 | From: The Abyss | Registered: Nov 2007  |  IP: Logged
MacManKrisK

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Icon 1 posted December 23, 2007 10:47      Profile for MacManKrisK     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
I see things a little differently here...

Perhaps your idea of "a substandard job" and his idea of "substandard" are very much different. It's not anyone's fault, specifically, but I can sort of see his side here (and, hey, someone had to stand up for his side!).

I *highly* doubt that he does "substandard" chores on purpose, and he may or may not be "forgetting" to do them on purpose. Think, though, how it would feel if you did a bunch of chores, honestly thought you had done a good job, and then someone whom you care for very much tells you that it's all wrong, and then proceeds to *do them over again*. That's a real dent to your self-esteem and it makes him feel like he can't do anything right. I would venture to say that's a major reason that he's not doing any of the housework, he probably feels that he can't do anything well enough.

So, where does this leave you? You're unhappy because you're doing all the work, he's unhappy because what he *does* try to do leaves him feeling unappreciated and incapable. BTW, I think that he probably /does/ feel nagged when you ask him to do something because in the back of his mind he feels that no matter how well he does it, it won't be good enough for you. That, for men, is the definition of nagging... we're asked to do something, then interrupted while doing it because "you're not doing it right."

What can you do? Try giving him chores to do that don't require such intricate detail. Like Ashitaka said: cooking, and laundry, instead of detailed cleaning. And if he doesn't fold the laundry *JUST RIGHT*, don't make a federal case out of it! Accept it as a character flaw and deal with it. Moreover, when he does chores, be appreciative of his effort, even if they're all messed up and he did them all wrong; at least say "thanks for trying."

What it comes down to.. the way I see it... is your inability to accept his flaws and take him the way he is. You want to change him, mold him, shape him, into seeing the world exactly as you do.. into doing things the *RIGHT* way.. that is.. the way *you* do them. If you cannot accept his feeble, and inevitably flawed attempts to help out, then you must end the relationship, because you cannot change him or mold him into being your vision of "perfect."

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get rich and you still die"


Posts: 2331 | From: Southwest Michigan, USA | Registered: Oct 2001  |  IP: Logged
Rhonwyyn

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Icon 1 posted December 23, 2007 11:08      Profile for Rhonwyyn   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
After almost a year of marriage, I've learned quite a bit about living intimately with another person. Jonathan and I have had our disagreements over the way things are done around the house, and I've had to just be glad he's taking care of those things even if he's not doing them the way I'd like.

Clean dishes? A relief.
Clean tub drain? Wahoo!!
Trash out every Sunday night? Yay.

Jonathan's schedule is such that he's home a lot more than I am, so he's picked up most of the chores. I'm ashamed to admit it, but I haven't done much cleaning lately. I've been so bushed when I come home from work that I just crash on the couch to check my e-mail.

I don't know what it's like to live intimately with a person with whom you have no lasting commitment. When I had a housemates, we took care of our stuff out of respect for the other person(s). With Jonathan, because we're married and want the best for each other, we sacrifice to get things done around the house. Because I'm his wife, Jonathan wants to please me, and because he's my husband, I want to please him. Maybe your boyfriend doesn't feel like that because you're "just the girlfriend." I don't know.

I'm curious to see what things will be like for us when we've been together as long as you and your boyfriend have. We've gone through some rough times this year, but thankfully, we've grown closer as a result even though they could've driven us apart. God's been really good to us, and we love each other more now than when we married.

I hope you are able to have this kind of positive relationship sometime. I hope your boyfriend learns to respect you. I hope you learn to respect yourself and stand up for what is good for you.

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GrumpySteen

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Icon 1 posted December 23, 2007 13:18      Profile for GrumpySteen     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
*looks at MMK's post*

I never realized that taking out the trash was a chore that required intricate detail [Roll Eyes]

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The Famous Druid

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Icon 1 posted December 23, 2007 13:20      Profile for The Famous Druid     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by geekgoddess:
When he does help (he often "forgets"), its usually a substandard job and I have to follow after him to make sure it gets done right.

Something many women have difficulty accepting about housework is ... If it has to be done your way, it has to be done by you.

One example (of many)...

For some years, I couldn't hang washing on the line in the presence of Mrs Druid, because I'm a single-pegger†, and she's a double-pegger‡. She'd follow after me, pull the pegs off, and put them back on the 'right' way. I didn't see the point in the job always being done twice, so after a while I just gave up and let her do it.

One day, a female friend of ours was whining about how hopeless her man was at housework, one of the examples she quoted was ... <drumroll> he's a double-pegger, and everyone knows single-pegging is the 'right' way to do it.

Mrs Druid and I fell about laughing. Since then, Mrs Druid is a lot more relaxed about differences in housework style.

<sings>
I say to-mah-to, you say to-may-to...
</sings>

&dagger single-pegging - using each peg for one and only one item of clothing.
‡ double-pegging - using a peg for 2 items of clothing, the left edge of one and the right edge of the next

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Thorned0Fortress
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Icon 1 posted December 23, 2007 13:30      Profile for Thorned0Fortress   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Oh honey, I totally know. When we were living together(married), I went to school and worked. both were part time. I would get up early to get ready and by the time I left, he was still fast asleep. I would have to spend a minute or two waking him up enough to kiss me goodbye. I would get home between 5-6. Clean up my mes ... mostly clothes and bathroom stuff. Clean up his mess ... clothes, dishes, and trash. Then, I would do the collective work like laundry and dishes, and toilet scrubbing. Not to mention that for laundy I had to walk a block or two to get to the laundry mat, and being small I could only carry about one load at a time. AND we lived on the second floor.

He would do the same thing ...leave his plate and food wrappings wherever. I would ask him to put them away, and he would pile the trash on a stack of dishes and set them ON THE COUNTER! ... a foot away from the sink and trash can.

When I would confront him, he would go on about how He was paying the bills (my part time job didn't cover very much), and it doesn't matter that I worked more hours than him because his were more STRENUOUS. His excuse for leaving things around for days on end (at least) was that it wasn't his top priority. He was just waiting until he 'had the time to get to it,' and it just didn't bother him. I tried to explain that it bothered ME, and thus should become a priority to HIM. I told him that it made me feel as if he was just trying to walk over me. He assured me that it was not the case, then he would say that he DID feel as though I should do the housework because of the bill situation mentioned earlier.

The entire marriage was a crock, and I am sorry that I did not offer any advice. I just wanted to let you know that I understand how you feel.

BUT ... instead of just asking him to do chores, try exlaining how it makes you feel when he neglects them. If you havn't already done so.

As for the coming home in the morning .... I think we should a whole new topic just on that issue. Best of luck sweeatheart. I know how hard it is to beleive that they really will change, but sometimes we have to be logical, and not just go by feelings. It will hurt, but if not staying with him is best, it will mend in time.

Posts: 235 | From: texas | Registered: Oct 2005  |  IP: Logged
geekgoddess
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Icon 1 posted December 23, 2007 13:41      Profile for geekgoddess     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
I just probably follow up by saying that I have NEVER told him that he did a substandard job, EVER. I just quietly follow after him and take care of it myself, wondering what kind of person has to have it explained to them how to scrub a kitchen sink. Household chores are not rocket science. I guess my point is that I should never have to ask. You see a full bag of trash thats waiting to go out? Do me a 'favor' by taking it out (except its not a favor, because its his house, too!) You see a full sink of dishes and you know that I have 4 hours of homework in front of me? Just take care of it. 20 pairs (literally) of your shoes are sitting in the entryway and its impossible to get in the front door because of them? Please just pick them up and don't make me ask. I ask so little that its ridiculous. Just a LITTLE effort would be appreciated.

As for "nagging," I've found out that nagging=asking me to do things I don't want to do. Lets use the shoes as an example. They sat there for nearly a week before I said "Hey,when you get a minute, could you please move your shoes into the bedroom?" Nothing happened. So, I waited a full week and moved them myself. Another example: he cuts his own hair over the bathroom sink (that I'd JUST CLEANED) and gets hair everywhere. I ask "Will you clean that up after you're done?" he agrees he will. Fast forward to the following Saturday, where not only the bathroom sink is clogged, but the tub too, because they're full of the hair that he didn't clean up. So, I sigh, pull out all of the cleaning products, and take an hour to scrub down the bathroom instead of reading for one of my classes.

Call me crazy, but I don't think that lowering my expectations is what needs to be done. I've silently been biting my tongue and being pissed off over this for quite some time. Every time we sit down and delegate chores he appeases me by saying that he'll take on more chores, but he's "not a mind reader" so all I have to do is tell him. When I DO tell him (or ask, rather) I get a "Sure, later" and he KNOWS FOR FACT that if he waits long enough that I will take care of it, the way I take care of everything else in the relationship.

I find it to be pretty humorous that I come off as the shrew, and he comes off as the poor, misunderstood schmuck living with the shrew. Apparently I should just take care of ALL of our household stuff without expecting him to take on anything, because I'm female, after all, and we were born with some superior cleaning gene that makes us better at scrubbing toilets and sinks. LOL. I'm sorry, physically I wasn't made better at cleaning, I'm just not lazy or willing to live in filth.

Those of you who made the statement that I'm not his wife, you're absolutely right, and I would NEVER let him put a ring on my finger with the way things are. I see living together as a trial run for marriage. You get to work out all of the kinks, make sure you're compatible and that you won't kill each other if you DO decide to tie the knot.

I don't think that I'm out of line in asking for more help. As I've illustrated before, its really not asking for much at all. I think he has it made in the shade, and he knows it. I don't know how to better handle the situation then to put my expectations out there, keep an eye on it, and if I don't get what I need, then to end it and find someone who wouldn't take complete advantage of having me for a gf.

Posts: 79 | From: The Abyss | Registered: Nov 2007  |  IP: Logged
geekgoddess
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Icon 1 posted December 23, 2007 13:49      Profile for geekgoddess     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Thank you for sharing your experience Thorned0Fortress!!! Its good to know that SOMEONE understands that its 2007 and I'm not chattel. LOL.

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maximile

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Icon 1 posted December 23, 2007 16:40      Profile for maximile   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
lol, what? No one seems to be suggesting that you're a shrew. People seem supportive of you, and in agreement that he's a lazy slob. They're just saying that maybe you're not communicating your issues to him very successfully, so the blame might not be all his.

as for lowering your expectations, I don't think anyone is suggesting that you have to do that. Just that you might have to choose between that and getting rid of him. I know which one I'd go for.

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dragonman97

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Icon 1 posted December 23, 2007 19:57      Profile for dragonman97   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
/me glances above, feels weary, and just notices one thing:

Oooh...nice use of †s, TFD. :-)

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The Famous Druid

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Icon 1 posted December 23, 2007 22:04      Profile for The Famous Druid     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
<voice type="Sinister">
I am an expert with daggers.
</voice>

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Cap'n Vic

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Icon 1 posted December 24, 2007 11:51      Profile for Cap'n Vic     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
He is a deadbeat. Get rid of him now* before marriage and kids complicate things immensely.

Life is too short to waste on someone like him.


*I suggest cutting his brake lines

Posts: 5471 | From: One of the drones from sector 7G | Registered: Jun 2002  |  IP: Logged
Mac D
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Icon 1 posted December 24, 2007 12:17      Profile for Mac D     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Cap'n Vic:
*I suggest cutting his brake lines

Use battery acid. They can tell when break lines have been cut but if you use acid it looks like a malfunction in another part of the car and they will rule it an accidental death rather then open a big investigation.

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Posts: 1449 | From: Where I am is very relative to my location at that time. | Registered: Sep 2004  |  IP: Logged
Thorned0Fortress
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Icon 1 posted December 24, 2007 13:48      Profile for Thorned0Fortress   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
So Mac, you never did tell me what happened to that old girlfriend of yours ...?

hehe

Posts: 235 | From: texas | Registered: Oct 2005  |  IP: Logged
quantumfluff
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Icon 1 posted December 24, 2007 21:51      Profile for quantumfluff     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
It's sort of simple. Withhold sex until he fixes the behaviors you cannot compromise on and think seriously about what things are important and what can slide. If you can't be happy after that, it's time to move on.
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Thorned0Fortress
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Icon 1 posted December 24, 2007 23:32      Profile for Thorned0Fortress   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Oh, but Quantum ... what do you do when you aren't having sex in the first place?
Posts: 235 | From: texas | Registered: Oct 2005  |  IP: Logged
ScholasticSpastic
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Icon 1 posted December 25, 2007 00:38      Profile for ScholasticSpastic     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Thorned0Fortress:
Oh, but Quantum ... what do you do when you aren't having sex in the first place?

Well, if he doesn't clean or put out, replace the defective unit.

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"As in repeating a well-known song, so in instincts, one action follows another by a sort of rhythm; if a person be interrupted in a song, or in repeating anything by rote, he is generally forced to go back to recover the habitual train of thought..." (Darwin, The Origin of Species)

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NoRealReason
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Icon 1 posted December 27, 2007 12:16      Profile for NoRealReason   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by quantumfluff:
It's sort of simple. Withhold sex until he fixes the behaviors you cannot compromise on and think seriously about what things are important and what can slide. If you can't be happy after that, it's time to move on.

That is a great idea, if you want to break-up. Withholding sex, or anything like it, is just blackmail. If you have to do that just to have a discussion, use your energy packing.....HIS shit.
Posts: 70 | From: Never you mind | Registered: Jan 2007  |  IP: Logged
hal9000
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Icon 4 posted January 14, 2008 12:50      Profile for hal9000   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Wholy crap.... it took an hour and a half to read thru this post.

my two cents.
resoultions come by converstion, if an arguement insues, leave until your calm, then continue talking.

RESPECT, I see it as he is disrespecting you by bailing out and not answering his phone etc.
I am guilty of that, but honestly i forget to take my phone with me sometimes.

I am Lazy, i am not going to make the generalziation saying all men are.... however i am rich so i hired a maid. (now i am poor and i dont get to have sex with her damm the luck)

something else i wrote. a while back.

if your truly unhappy... GET OUT...
I stayed married for 17 years to only realize i was in it because it was convienent not love..

your a very pretty gal, i am sure the guys are lining up right now to have a chance to talk to you.

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P.E.B.K.A.C. if you can fix this, you can fix anything.

Posts: 183 | From: VA under a bridge living in a van. | Registered: Jul 2007  |  IP: Logged
pixel_pusher01

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Icon 1 posted January 15, 2008 20:23      Profile for pixel_pusher01     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
You know, GeekGoddess, it concerns me that he "disappears" for hours at a time, and doesn't give you any consideration to let you know where he is- can he account for where he is and what he's doing? I'm sorry, but I see a "two-timer" plain as day in that. I am happily married now for 14 years, with 5 kids, and with the size of our household, there's no way I can get by with doing a substandard job on ANY chore. My wife and I both work from home, we both have the chores divided between us and the kids... the kind of situation you're in now just wouldn't fly in our house.

I agree with one of the other posters here- the guy's a deadbeat. He's taking advantage of you because he thinks you'll never leave him. He has a maid, a mother and a mistress all rolled into one person- you.

If you're planning on spending the rest of your life with this guy, then I'd say you might well want to get your own place for awhile as you planned (whether he whiles about it or not- you're not married, so you're not bound to live with him in the same house right now), so he can go back to taking care of himself. If I were a woman, I wouldn't want to spend my life with a guy who expects me to look after him like I'm his mother. Especially if you're not yet married, he has no right to expect you to wait on him hand and foot. There is accountability in any relationship, but obviously he doesn't think he has to be accountable to you for his actions. It's high time he was taught otherwise. I get irritated with this kind of guy- he's the kind that perpetuates womenkind's negative stereotype of men that I try so hard to disprove.

Just my two cents' worth...

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Mike: "You know, a lot of people have compared this scene to the climactic chariot scene in "Ben Hur."
Tom Servo: "Uh-huh?"
Mike: "Yeah, you know, they usually say, "Ben Hur was really good. This movie totally sucks."

óMystery Science Theater 3000, episode #820- Space Mutiny

Posts: 32 | From: San Antonio, TX | Registered: Oct 2007  |  IP: Logged


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