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Author Topic: Have Republicans turned America away from God?
The Famous Druid

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Icon 1 posted March 27, 2009 10:15      Profile for The Famous Druid     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Recent scientific research found that conservatives are far more fearful than liberals. As an extreme conservative, ASM serves as an extreme example of that phenomenon.

It must be really awful spending your whole life in a state of panic the way ASM does, and we should all try our best to help relieve that fear. Personally, as a long time dentist waiting-room Readers Digest fan, I believe that laughter is the best medicine, so I respond to his panic-stricken rantings with mocking laughter.

Dunno if that's helping ASM, but it works for me. [Razz]

As Oliver Cromwell said to Jean-Paul Sartre after hurricane Katrina, "take my wife, please!"

--------------------
If you watch 'The History Of NASA' backwards, it's about a space agency that has no manned spaceflight capability, then does low-orbit flights, then lands on the Moon.

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ASM65816
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Icon 1 posted March 28, 2009 15:55      Profile for ASM65816   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
March 27, 2009, 06:20
I'm pretty sure this is the most insane thing you've ever said.....

Maybe saying something else will make the matter clearer:

"Half" of the Democratic Party's 2008 campaign was based on (the propaganda of) "the Right-Wing Extremist Christian Theocracy is going to Destroy the World!!!!!!!!"

Pick a search engine and look for "American Theocracy", "Right-Wing Theocracy", or "Christian Theocracy" ... it's "all" fear-mongering propaganda for "the Left." Essentially all of the "critics" of "Right-Wing Christians" are COMPLETELY Silent on the atrocities of Islamic Theocracies.

So if you feel that "Liberals" (and Leftists) haven't been "judging" anyone, congratulations on being a world-class hypocrite (or fool).
 

quote:
March 27, 2009, 06:20
The fact is that atheists are routinely discriminated against in this country and the majority of Christians believe that it's okay to do so.

Where did you get these "facts"?

What is the source and stated percentage for this "Majority of Christians"? What percentage for what form of discrimination?

Look in mainstream media, Atheists are not news.

quote:
Atheists can be fired from their jobs for not believing in God and have no recourse.
[shake head]   I just checked Google news for "atheist fired" ... A metal band called "Haste the Day" fired a member last year when he declared he was an atheist. At www.russiatoday.com, Vladislav Radchenko could get up to five years in jail if proven guilty of harassing religious students in his classroom.

Dude, I am not "feeling" your pain. "Ugly" people probably face a lot more discrimination than Atheists, but why isn't the ACLU doing more to "protect" ugly people.
 

quote:
Original Text: So... you're saying that anyone who claims to be Muslim who doesn't support terrorism and Sharia law are, in fact, not Muslims.

Corrected by ASM: So... you're saying that anyone who claims to be Muslim who doesn't support Sharia law is, in fact, not Muslim.

Someone who claims to be Christian and does not "support" the Commandments against murder and stealing is not Christian. (I dare you to say something stupid like "you can be Christian and not believe in God, not believe Jesus existed, and not believe a single miracle has ever occurred." Better yet, tell me you accept Jesus Christ as your savior _because_ you're an Atheist.)

From all I've seen, the Islamic clerics for the Taliban and Wahabi accurately cite scripture from the Qu'ran (Koran) to support claims that Sharia law is the only acceptable law on earth.

Of course, some say they can point to scriptures in the Qu'ran (Koran) which contradict portions of Sharia law.... EXCELLENT! The Perfect Eternal Words of god (as given to the "messenger") look like symptoms of schizophrenia (or neurosis).

Go find some "Islamic Scholars" that say the Qu'ran (Koran) is PARTIALLY Divine ... (and if you do find them, I bet politics has a hand in it).

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Once a proud programmer of Apple II's, he now spends his days and nights in cheap dives fraternizing with exotic dancers....

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The Famous Druid

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Icon 1 posted March 28, 2009 16:19      Profile for The Famous Druid     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
There you go again ASM, criticizing the USA and All That Is Good.
You're such an America-hater.

As Barney Rubble said to Ferdinand Magellan at the coronation of Pope Marilyn IV, "America, love it or leave it".

<sings>
Oh say can you see....
</sings>

--------------------
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Callipygous
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Icon 1 posted March 28, 2009 16:55      Profile for Callipygous     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
So ASM let me get this right. I have to choose between the religious right and the Taliban? I can't just say I don't believe that religion of any stripe should be intimately involved with politics, and even more so when it comes to intolerant fundamentalist religions of whatever flavour, Christian, Islamic, or any of the rest? Because that position is hypocritical? And you don't think that's a rather stupid argument?

It seems all we have to do in this thread, is poke you with a stick and you come out with posts that become more and more bizarre. Let me advise you once more - don't post on religion, it is too obvious that you have no understanding of it and no interest in it. When it comes to politics, economics, or glorious wonderful war, however bizarre and wrong your opinions, because those subjects interest you. you have at least thought about them. In this thread you are sounding like the online equivalent of a bag lady with Tourettes shouting at the passing traffic. It's embarrassing.

--------------------
"Knowledge is Power. France is Bacon" - Milton

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GMx

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Icon 1 posted March 28, 2009 18:43      Profile for GMx     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by ASM65816:

Dude, I am not "feeling" your pain. "Ugly" people probably face a lot more discrimination than Atheists, but why isn't the ACLU doing more to "protect" ugly people.
 


Is this from personal experience?
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ASM65816
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Icon 5 posted March 28, 2009 20:38      Profile for ASM65816   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
March 28, 2009 16:55
Let me advise you once more - don't post on religion, it is too obvious that you have no understanding of it

Let me ask your opinion on the following:
quote:
An Atheist philosopher states that contradiction can be used to logically prove an argument is false. He then selects passages from the Bible, and claims multiple cases where passage "A" contradicts passage "B." His conclusion is that the Bible is not the work of God because God would deliver a perfect (and logical) document.
If such an argument was presented to you, would you say "Yes, the Bible contradicts itself; therefore, Christianity is simply a human construct"?

From there, if you feel the Qu'ran (Koran) is perfect and without contradiction, go ahead and let your Atheist friends know how wrong they are.

(A "friendly" warning: if you do this, and repeatedly press the issue of the Koran's perfection, your friends may call you "brainwashed" and "delusional," and you will find yourself losing one or more friends.)

Conversely, if you feel a man will enter Heaven, saved by accepting Jesus Christ as an _Atheist_, then please post the theological explanation. (I've become really curious about it now, and please respond, even if it's only "I've seen that argument from a century ago.")

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Once a proud programmer of Apple II's, he now spends his days and nights in cheap dives fraternizing with exotic dancers....

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The Famous Druid

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Icon 1 posted March 28, 2009 20:58      Profile for The Famous Druid     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
I gotta get me some of them drugs ASM's using.

Um, on second thought, maybe not.

As Vincent Vega said to Moses as they loaded 144 dancing virgins onto the Ark, "here's looking at you, kid."

--------------------
If you watch 'The History Of NASA' backwards, it's about a space agency that has no manned spaceflight capability, then does low-orbit flights, then lands on the Moon.

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TheMoMan
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Icon 1 posted March 29, 2009 02:19      Profile for TheMoMan         Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
__________________ TheMoMan Here __ WOW is this topic becoming torrid.

I wish to pose a question. Is it Freedom of Religion or Freedom from Religion?

To me bombing a place of worship while services are in progress, is not very God like. Nor hating people because of their choice. From my studies all texts contain some errors, however they (THE TEXTS) should be taken as a whole, read the message.

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Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.


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Callipygous
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Icon 1 posted March 29, 2009 02:25      Profile for Callipygous     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
ASM once again your post makes absolutely no sense to anyone but you.

This is beginning to resemble bear baiting rather too closely for comfort. I withdraw.

--------------------
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TheMoMan
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Icon 1 posted March 29, 2009 07:25      Profile for TheMoMan         Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
___________________ Fear, Fear. __ Maybe we should be afraid, but are we afraid for the right reason.

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/uk/crime/article5996253.ece

Small groups, of affected religions are nothing compared with this concerted effort by a Nation.

--------------------
Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.


Benjamin Franklin,

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GrumpySteen

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Icon 1 posted March 29, 2009 15:57      Profile for GrumpySteen     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
ASM65816 wrote:
I just checked Google news for "atheist fired" ... A metal band called "Haste the Day" fired a member last year when he declared he was an atheist. At www.russiatoday.com, Vladislav Radchenko could get up to five years in jail if proven guilty of harassing religious students in his classroom.

and you overlooked all this stuff that comes up on the first page of results:
 -

You're such a fucking liar about everything.

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The Famous Druid

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Icon 1 posted March 29, 2009 17:28      Profile for The Famous Druid     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Wow.

The state of Arkansas forbids atheists from working for the state civil service, or testifying as a witness in court.

Other states with similar provisions are Maryland, Pennsylvania, North Carolina, Texas and Tennessee.

--------------------
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ASM65816
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Icon 1 posted March 29, 2009 18:17      Profile for ASM65816   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Just an observation about "Liberals":
quote:
I am as firmly convinced that religions do harm as I am that they are untrue.
    -- Bertrand Russell

Originally posted by Callipygous:
... once again your post makes absolutely no sense ...

(paraphrased) Bertrand Russell was convinced that all religions are untrue. As a mathematician, he made logical arguments against religion. In fact, all arguments he made were logically sound (generally speaking).

I have the utmost confidence that if I replaced the word "religion" with the word "Islam" in an argument by Bertrand Russell, the immediate response from Callipygous would be "that makes no sense."

For example, if I ask Callipygous why Bertrand Russell's arguments against (all) religions do not apply to Islam, his response (if any) would be "that question makes no sense."

Being a "Liberal" seems to be a religion, "Liberals" consider their ideology as "the only thing that makes sense" while they find all other concepts to be incomprehensible or irrelevant. (FYI: I could reference all my arguments, formatted like -- "I make this argument because it is the same argument made by Epicurus in 300 BC" or "I make this argument because it was presented in Bertrand Russell's essay on Atheism." However, you would be incapable of understanding the original philosophers anyway, so providing references would just make my posts longer, nothing more.)
 

EDIT (rebuttals):
quote:
Originally posted by GrumpySteen:
ASM65816 wrote:
I just checked Google news for "atheist fired"

GrumpySteen:
You're such a fucking liar about everything.

[shake head]   What part of "News" do you not understand?

I checked "News" -- that is a FACT.

Now, since you're unaware about some aspects of reality, especially regarding the corporate world -- IF YOU PROFESS YOUR RELIGION (Christian or otherwise) INSTEAD OF "DOING YOUR JOB," YOU WILL BE FIRED.

You seem like a nice anarchist ... try the following every time your boss asks you to do something: Say "I'm saved by the grace of Jesus!" When he fires you for not doing your job, call the ACLU and sue for "Discrimination against your Christian Beliefs."
 

quote:
Originally posted by TFD:
<article link>

From the article:
Section 1 of the 1874 Arkansas Constitution states <snip> ....... The U.S. Supreme Court ruled all such state provisions unconstitutional and unenforceable in a 1961 ruling....

"UNENFORCEABLE" means no Atheist will be "oppressed" in ANY of the states you mentioned. You are fear-mongering with a story about nonexistent discrimination. (But hey, that's popular with the Liberal crowd.)

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Once a proud programmer of Apple II's, he now spends his days and nights in cheap dives fraternizing with exotic dancers....

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Xanthine

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Icon 1 posted March 29, 2009 18:20      Profile for Xanthine     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by ASM65816:
quote:
March 28, 2009 16:55
Let me advise you once more - don't post on religion, it is too obvious that you have no understanding of it

Let me ask your opinion on the following:
quote:
An Atheist philosopher states that contradiction can be used to logically prove an argument is false. He then selects passages from the Bible, and claims multiple cases where passage "A" contradicts passage "B." His conclusion is that the Bible is not the work of God because God would deliver a perfect (and logical) document.
If such an argument was presented to you, would you say "Yes, the Bible contradicts itself; therefore, Christianity is simply a human construct"?

From there, if you feel the Qu'ran (Koran) is perfect and without contradiction, go ahead and let your Atheist friends know how wrong they are.

(A "friendly" warning: if you do this, and repeatedly press the issue of the Koran's perfection, your friends may call you "brainwashed" and "delusional," and you will find yourself losing one or more friends.)

Conversely, if you feel a man will enter Heaven, saved by accepting Jesus Christ as an _Atheist_, then please post the theological explanation. (I've become really curious about it now, and please respond, even if it's only "I've seen that argument from a century ago.")

What. The. Fuck?

I divided by zero trying to find anything resembling a point or argument or even meaning in that post. ASM, please see a doctor. Your brain is not working. Either that or you're a broken AI and your programmers need to do some debugging in the religion module.

--------------------
And it's one, two, three / On the wrong side of the lee / What were you meant for? / What were you meant for?
- The Decemberists

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ASM65816
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Icon 1 posted March 29, 2009 18:42      Profile for ASM65816   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
March 29, 2009, 18:20
What. The. F___? ...... Either that or you're a broken AI and your programmers need to do some debugging in the religion module.

<sigh> ... Go to Google ... type in "contradictions in the bible" ... search, and you'll probably get a million hits.

You can say "contradictions don't prove anything"; however, they are used in logical proofs.

Question presented:
quote:
If such an argument was presented to you, would you say "Yes, the Bible contradicts itself; therefore, Christianity is simply a human construct"?
You can say that these "contradiction" arguments are simply anti-Christian harassment, and I will gladly listen to that perspective.

If you do accept the "contradiction" arguments, it would be hypocrisy to insist that the same method of "proof" cannot be used for any other religion. At the minimum, contradictions indicate flaws, and the most likely source of flaws is human action.

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The Famous Druid

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Icon 1 posted March 29, 2009 18:55      Profile for The Famous Druid     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
As Saint Hunter S Thompson said to Pope Britney XXI at the opening of the Vatican in Tibet, "WTF???"

btw - I searched Google news for "contradictions in the bible", 126 hits, but that's near enough to a million for some.

btw2 - could this mob be the inspiration for some of ASM's incoherent rants?

--------------------
If you watch 'The History Of NASA' backwards, it's about a space agency that has no manned spaceflight capability, then does low-orbit flights, then lands on the Moon.

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ASM65816
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Icon 2 posted March 29, 2009 19:18      Profile for ASM65816   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by TFD:
btw - I searched Google news for "contradictions in the bible", 126 hits, but that's near enough to a million for some.

<sigh> Ok ... just in case anyone else shares TFD's "third-grade" reading comprehension, "Google" refers to the main search page, not "Google News" or "Google Maps" and so on. Do not use quotes when entering the text for searching.

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GrumpySteen

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Icon 1 posted March 29, 2009 19:32      Profile for GrumpySteen     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
ASM65816 wrote:
Now, since you're unaware about some aspects of reality, especially regarding the corporate world -- IF YOU PROFESS YOUR RELIGION (Christian or otherwise) INSTEAD OF "DOING YOUR JOB," YOU WILL BE FIRED.

You seem like a nice anarchist ... try the following every time your boss asks you to do something: Say "I'm saved by the grace of Jesus!" When he fires you for not doing your job, call the ACLU and sue for "Discrimination against your Christian Beliefs."


Can't be true. I just searched Google News for "Christian fired" and there are absolutely no relevant stories. Christians are, obviously, exempt from ever being fired for anything they do.

Now, I admit that searched no other sites whatsover, but any evidence you post from anywhere else to the contrary will be ignored because I'm following ASM's rules of debate.

In similar vein, I checked between my couch cushions and found no stories about anyone dying... ever. We're all immortal! Bet you guys didn't know that!

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The Famous Druid

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Icon 1 posted March 29, 2009 19:34      Profile for The Famous Druid     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha

Poor ASM, he just never caught on to the whole "humour" thing.

ASM obviously need it explained, so...
I was taking the piss, sending up your use of Google News to find very few hits when it suits you.
And I'm not laughing with you, I'm laughing at you.

quote:
Originally posted by ASM65816:
try the following every time your boss asks you to do something: Say "I'm saved by the grace of Jesus!" When he fires you for not doing your job

Sounds like the voice of experience.
Is that how you got fired from the army?


As Vasco de Gama said to Captain Cook while they climbed Mount Improbable, "My dog has no nose"

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If you watch 'The History Of NASA' backwards, it's about a space agency that has no manned spaceflight capability, then does low-orbit flights, then lands on the Moon.

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dragonman97

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Icon 1 posted March 29, 2009 20:23      Profile for dragonman97   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Hmm...I had done my best at ignoring this thread until a more recent comment caught my eyes in the Active Topics. As such, I've skimmed this, and did a double-take at what Xanthine WTFed at...and must also be the bearer of bad news to Steen. Steen: In your very own quote, he said 'google news' - if you check that, it's the ~5th hit. Personally, I'm more amused and saddened by the story about a Walmart atheist being fired for refusing to dress up as Santa. (In Steen's Google *Web* SERP.)

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There are three things you can be sure of in life: Death, taxes, and reading about fake illnesses online...

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GrumpySteen

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Icon 1 posted March 29, 2009 23:25      Profile for GrumpySteen     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
dragonman97:
Don't be obtuse and don't pretend you're as stupid as ASM.

My point was that he chose a single search on one source which does not return any results, then used that specific instance to support his view that atheists are not discriminated against. It isn't a huge leap to use Google to search the web when news.google.com doesn't return the information that you've been told exists.

In the same spirit of stupidity, I presented my search between the cushions on my couch as proof of everyone's immortality. Not one news story came up about people dying, therefor people clearly do not die by ASM's standards.

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fs

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Icon 1 posted March 30, 2009 00:26      Profile for fs   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
That's the thing about ASM... he may be as crazy as a shithouse rat, but he's highly effective at achieving his goals, which are disrupting any actual discussion on a topic that he disagrees with and setting us against each other.

Just look at this thread... the only topic of discussion now is ASM. Not the changing state of religion in America, not the causes... just ASM. Calling ASM names, using ASM as an excuse to show off how smart we all are to the people that already agree with us, and generally contributing to the noise rather than the signal. And then we get so wound up in an I'm-right-you're-wrong intellectual attack mode that we do things like assume anyone questioning us must be either deliberately obtuse or stupid, because it couldn't be an actual misunderstanding of the intent of a message. (Sorry Steen and DM, I'm just using you as the lastest example, but it's happened plenty of times before. And I was confused by the Google vs. Google news thing myself, since I tend not to pay much attention to anything ASM says.)

ASM has been trolling here for how many years? Why are we still feeding him?

Next time he pops up, could we all please just continue the discussion around him, the same way we step around dog shit on the sidewalk and continue on, rather than coming to a screeching halt and spending the next three hours alternately yelling at it for being shit and at other passers by for any imagined or assumed support of the shit?

I agree with Calli, it's a bit like bear-baiting, but it's also more than a little sick how, when ASM doesn't present enough of a challenge (and seriously, when has ASM ever presented an argument that was challenging for anyone with an IQ over 65?), we turn nasty to each other.

We all like to think that we're pretty smart here. So why do we let ASM continue to manipulate us?

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I'm in ur database, makin' moar recordz.

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ASM65816
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Icon 2 posted March 30, 2009 01:07      Profile for ASM65816   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by fs:
We all like to think that we're pretty smart here.

In that case, you can explain whether or not Bertrand Russell's argument "religion is untrue" and "does harm" also applies to Islam.

You also have the "right to remain silent." (Feel free to do so.... Wait a minute, aren't you one of the atheists?)
 

quote:
Originally posted by GrumpySteen:
Can't be true. I just searched Google News for "Christian fired" and there are absolutely no relevant stories. Christians are, obviously, exempt from ever being fired for anything they do.

Fine. Explicitly state your conclusions about the "News":
  • The news covers everything, no matter how trivial, mundane, boring, and irrelevant it may be.
     
      - or -
     
  • Anything the news does not report is because ultra-secret conspiracy societies cover it up.
 
<sarcasm> Great observation, Christian unemployment must be 0.0 percent.

While we're at it, I just urinated ........ if you can't find that in the "news" does that mean it didn't happen (or does it mean the world has "a million more important issues" at hand)?

Here's something ... maybe every day thousands of Atheists are carved up in human sacrifice to call forth the Elder God of Aphoom-Zhah. Want to explain why that's not news?

PS: My dictionary just broke ... could you be a dear and look up the definition for "F_cking Irrelevant"?

quote:
... people clearly do not die by ASM's standards.
Or maybe things that are mundane or irrelevant are not "news." Or maybe some people are immortal, and there's a conspiracy hiding it all.

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Once a proud programmer of Apple II's, he now spends his days and nights in cheap dives fraternizing with exotic dancers....

Posts: 1035 | From: Third rock from sun. | Registered: Mar 2001  |  IP: Logged
TheMoMan
BlabberMouth, a Blabber Odyssey
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Icon 1 posted March 30, 2009 01:59      Profile for TheMoMan         Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
_________________ TheMoMan Here __ Some people of faith become so RABID about their faith that they turn non-believers away.

What else is there to discus?

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Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.


Benjamin Franklin,

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Callipygous
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Icon 1 posted March 30, 2009 04:05      Profile for Callipygous     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Good points fs, but on this topic ASM is something really quite special. He has no idea what he is arguing for, on the one hand he feels impelled to defend the religious right, on the other he is an atheist himself who clearly thinks Christianity rather silly. So this has raised his natural incoherence and inconsistency into previously unexplored territory.

One only hopes that his internal contradictions are mirrored in the Republican Party itself, and that the constituent parts of the axis of evil, the movement conservatives and the religious right fall apart.

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"Knowledge is Power. France is Bacon" - Milton

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