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Author Topic: I [hearts] England
dragonman97

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Icon 1 posted January 06, 2009 22:56      Profile for dragonman97   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Atheists Decide to Send Their Own Message, on 800 Buses
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/01/07/world/europe/07london.html

Utterly fantastic - the odds of that going through here are next to nil.

Bravo!

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There are three things you can be sure of in life: Death, taxes, and reading about fake illnesses online...

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Ashitaka

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Icon 1 posted January 06, 2009 23:24      Profile for Ashitaka     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by dragonman97:


Utterly fantastic - the odds of that going through here are next to nil.

Bravo!

Ads have been posted in Washington on buses. It was in Australia where they were rejected.

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"If they're not gonna make a distinction between Muslims and violent extremists, then why should I take the time to distinguish between decent, fearful white people and racists?"

-Assif Mandvi

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skylar
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Icon 1 posted January 07, 2009 01:54      Profile for skylar     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Aw, this makes me miss my country [Happytears]

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"arm, aber geeky"

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Callipygous
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Icon 1 posted January 07, 2009 03:12      Profile for Callipygous     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
I think that over here at least, since Obama's election, it does finally appear that we are past the high watermark of religious fundamentalist idiocy. For example the BBC is running a season of programmes to celebrate the 200th anniversary of Darwin's birth and the 150th anniversary of the publication of "The Origin of the Species" and does not seem to think it is necessary to pretend to take any creationist nonsense seriously, and indeed in what I have heard so far, barely mentions them at all, which is encouraging. Scientists should not have argue about myth and superstition.

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"Knowledge is Power. France is Bacon" - Milton

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The Famous Druid

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Icon 1 posted January 07, 2009 13:00      Profile for The Famous Druid     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
"You wait ages for an atheist bus, and then 800 come along at once".

-- Ariane Sherine, atheist bus project organizer.

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If you watch 'The History Of NASA' backwards, it's about a space agency that has no manned spaceflight capability, then does low-orbit flights, then lands on the Moon.

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spungo
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Icon 1 posted January 07, 2009 16:28      Profile for spungo     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by The Famous Druid:
"You wait ages for an atheist bus, and then 800 come along at once".

-- Ariane Sherine, atheist bus project organizer.

[Applause]

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Shameless plug. (Please forgive me.)

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quantumfluff
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Icon 1 posted January 07, 2009 17:05      Profile for quantumfluff     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Best tombstone ever.
"Here lies an atheist. All dressed up and no place to go.". :-)

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Callipygous
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Icon 1 posted January 08, 2009 16:01      Profile for Callipygous     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Predictably the God botherers have objected. I hope they pursue their objection, to have this argued out by lawyers in front of an official tribunal would be good theatre.

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"Knowledge is Power. France is Bacon" - Milton

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GrumpySteen

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Icon 1 posted January 08, 2009 18:55      Profile for GrumpySteen     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
The Advertising Standards Authority gets to decide whether God probably does or doesn't exist?

That's awesome!

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Worst. Celibate. Ever.

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The Famous Druid

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Icon 1 posted January 08, 2009 19:30      Profile for The Famous Druid     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
So, if the ASA rules in favour of the atheists, would that mean all advertising _for_ the existence of god would be banned?

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If you watch 'The History Of NASA' backwards, it's about a space agency that has no manned spaceflight capability, then does low-orbit flights, then lands on the Moon.

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dragonman97

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Icon 1 posted January 08, 2009 21:29      Profile for dragonman97   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Well, the ASA and general opinion is the reason for the word 'probably' being on the ad in the first place. [Wink]

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There are three things you can be sure of in life: Death, taxes, and reading about fake illnesses online...

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joliet_jane
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Icon 1 posted January 10, 2009 12:17      Profile for joliet_jane     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Hooray for free speech!

But that doesn't mean that Dawkins isn't an annoying douchebag.

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Please Visit http://www.wideweb.com/phonetrips/
And for Phun on the Phone:
http://www.Telephone-Entertainment.com/

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Grummash

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Icon 1 posted January 16, 2009 11:07      Profile for Grummash     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
I know this thread has been quiet for a while...

...but don't you just hate it when you find someone who is supposed to be an adult acting like a spoilt brat and throwing a tantrum just because someone else has a different point of view?

so, pray to whoever you want to pray to, but just drive the fscking bus!

We had similar nonsense a couple of years ago when a Muslim checkout person in a supermarket refused to handle a bottle of hooch that the customer had included in their shopping.

Bah! [Wink]

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...and yet, across the gulf of space, minds immeasurably superior to ours regarded this earth with envious eyes...

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maximile

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Icon 1 posted January 16, 2009 11:45      Profile for maximile   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Grummash:
...but don't you just hate it when you find someone who is supposed to be an adult acting like a spoilt brat and throwing a tantrum just because someone else has a different point of view?

No! That's one of my favourite kinds of comedy!

I saw one of the buses yesterday. Nice to see it in real life.

Posts: 1085 | From: London, UK (Powys, UK in hols) | Registered: Feb 2005  |  IP: Logged
GrumpySteen

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Icon 1 posted January 16, 2009 12:13      Profile for GrumpySteen     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Well, you know that Christians make up just barely a third of the world's population. That's less than 50%, so they are a minority and anyone* who says or does anything that goes against their beliefs is discriminating against them and they have to protest as loudly and obnoxiously as possible.


*unless the person is one of their own, like Tony Alamo, Jim Bakker, Paul Barnes, Joe Barron, Todd Bentley, Phil Driscoll, Lonnie Frisbee, Douglas Goodman, Frank Houston, Ted Haggard, Billy James Hargis, Kent Hovind, Lonnie Latham, Richard Roberts, Bishop Earl Paulk, John Paulk, Peter Popoff, Coy Privette, Oral Roberts, Jimmy Swaggart, Robert Tilton, Mike Warnke...

You know... it might be faster to list the ones who haven't been in a scandal.

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...and yet, across the gulf of space, minds immeasurably superior to ours regarded this earth... and laughed their asses off at the silly people arguing, hating and going to war with each other over who did or didn't get nailed to a tree two thousand years ago.

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dragonman97

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Icon 1 posted January 16, 2009 15:41      Profile for dragonman97   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:

Hanne Stinson, chief executive of the British Humanist Association, said: "I have difficulty understanding why people with particular religious beliefs find the expression of a different sort of beliefs to be offensive.

"I can't understand why some people seem to have a different attitude when it comes to atheists."

I suppose the bus driver wouldn't drive the bus if it had an ad on it for a temple, right? (Jewish or Muslim)

Right?

/crickets

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There are three things you can be sure of in life: Death, taxes, and reading about fake illnesses online...

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Sxeptomaniac

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Icon 1 posted January 16, 2009 16:44      Profile for Sxeptomaniac   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by dragonman97:
quote:

Hanne Stinson, chief executive of the British Humanist Association, said: "I have difficulty understanding why people with particular religious beliefs find the expression of a different sort of beliefs to be offensive.

"I can't understand why some people seem to have a different attitude when it comes to atheists."

I suppose the bus driver wouldn't drive the bus if it had an ad on it for a temple, right? (Jewish or Muslim)

Right?

/crickets

Perhaps, but perhaps not. The ad is attacking his belief, rather than solely promoting a different one. An ad for a temple would perhaps imply underneath that his beliefs are wrong, but doesn't openly do so (whether it would be possible for an atheist message to not attack his beliefs is another question). It seems he was willing to find a reasonable compromise, too: "When he returned to work on Monday he was called into a meeting with managers and agreed to go back to work with the promise he would only have to drive the buses if there were no others available."

Edit: It seems a little odd to attack the guy for this. He's not pushing his beliefs on anyone; he's just asking for some reasonable leeway for his own convictions.

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Let's pray that the human race never escapes from Earth to spread its iniquity elsewhere. - C. S. Lewis

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maximile

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Icon 1 posted January 16, 2009 17:27      Profile for maximile   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Sxeptomaniac:
It seems a little odd to attack the guy for this. He's not pushing his beliefs on anyone; he's just asking for some reasonable leeway for his own convictions.

I partly agree. But I bet that anyone who raised a fuss because they didn't want to drive a bus advertising an unethical fast food company might not be treated so kindly by the bus companies. I don't think anyone really connects the driver of the bus to the message on the outside.
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GrumpySteen

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Icon 1 posted January 16, 2009 22:33      Profile for GrumpySteen     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
The company owns the bus and he's paid to drive it. He is indeed trying to enforce his beliefs on others by protesting, walking off the job and refusing to drive a bus that carries a message that he doesn't like.

The occasional atheist who tries to get "In God We Trust" removed from money or "under God" removed from the pledge of allegiance gets ridicule, abuse and death threats, so why does the Christian guy deserve any better?

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fs

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Icon 1 posted January 17, 2009 09:03      Profile for fs   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by maximile:
quote:
Originally posted by Sxeptomaniac:
It seems a little odd to attack the guy for this. He's not pushing his beliefs on anyone; he's just asking for some reasonable leeway for his own convictions.

I partly agree. But I bet that anyone who raised a fuss because they didn't want to drive a bus advertising an unethical fast food company might not be treated so kindly by the bus companies. I don't think anyone really connects the driver of the bus to the message on the outside.
Exactly, Max. If you have a problem with the duties your job requires of you, then it's up to the employee to find a job that they do not find morally objectionable. This pertains to bus drivers that object to various ad campaigns and pharmacists that object to various prescriptions and grocery store employees that object to various foodstuffs. (I wonder if the grocery store employee cited earlier also refuses to handle all pork products?)

Can you imagine if the bus company had to shuffle drivers all around based on which advertising they personally approve of? Carla won't drive the Victoria's Secret bus because she thinks the ads are exploitative of women. Dean won't drive the "Stop Domestic Violence" bus because he thinks that the message perpetuates a stereotype of men as abusers. Elvira won't drive the KFC bus because she objects to factory farming chickens.

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I'm in ur database, makin' moar recordz.

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Grummash

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Icon 1 posted January 17, 2009 13:50      Profile for Grummash     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
All the posts since I bumped this topic have been discussing very valid aspects of this issue. However, the thing I was trying to get at is just how easily hurt people are nowadays.

We have a word in the north of England for people who whinge and cry when they are not really hurt at all.... we call them 'mard' or, if they exhibit severe behaviour of this type 'mard-arsed'.

An extreme example of this is the frequency with which people sue for 'emotional damage' - which frankly disgusts me. This bus business is just another example of how people are just far too fscking precious nowadays.

I commend people who make a stand on matters of principle, but the difference here is that the poster on the bus is not about any individual on the bus or looking at the bus. It is an abstract idea put forward for consideration. There is no personal attack on the driver or his personal beliefs. He chose to make it about him when it wasn't.

So I say again, pray to whoever you want to pray to, but drive the fscking bus.

</rant> [Big Grin]

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...and yet, across the gulf of space, minds immeasurably superior to ours regarded this earth with envious eyes...

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Demo
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Icon 1 posted January 18, 2009 13:46      Profile for Demo     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
A pretty cool, somewhat relevant video

I can't really see why anyone would get overly offended by the bus thing - if anything it just opens it up for debate. I doubt we get atheists complaining every time they go past a church about the posters outside, and unlike the buses, the church posters make the statement that god DOES exist, and threaten us with all manner of depressing stuff if we so much as wink at an attractive member of the opposite sex before marriage.

If it was someone knocking on my door in the middle of dinner trying to debate the point with me, sure, thats annoying, but in all honesty, I very rarely pay attention to the side of buses anyway

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dragonman97

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Icon 1 posted January 18, 2009 15:21      Profile for dragonman97   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Okay...that's a bit spooky! I'm not saying it doesn't a practical point across, but it does creep me out a bit.

Now then, a profound insight revealed by crap TV:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dLkTW7zmwH8#t=9m44s

(Plot summary: Anwar was afraid to have his best friend Maxxie attend his birthday party, as his father is a devout Muslim, and Maxxie is gay. Anwar's dad, as per video...WIN!)


P.S. So, a colleague of mine sent me a YouTube link, and one related video link begat another, until I landed on this truly terrifying pile of venom:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v4QcyEjMydk

That is really scary sh*t.

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There are three things you can be sure of in life: Death, taxes, and reading about fake illnesses online...

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Callipygous
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Icon 1 posted January 19, 2009 01:56      Profile for Callipygous     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Dragon I would not equate The Westborough Baptist Church with even other fundamentalist Christian churches, let alone the mainstream Anglican tradition that I know and respect. Check out their web site godhatesfags.com (!!!!) for more of their twisted vision. I think the most sensible Christian reaction was expressed by the Methodists who according to that BBC link
quote:
said it would be a "good thing if it gets people to engage with the deepest questions of life" and suggested it showed there was a "continued interest in God".
.

I disagree with Sxepto. If it is an attack on the bus driver's beliefs, (which I don't think it is), then atheists endure a much greater number of similar attacks on their beliefs on chuch billboards, and even recently from a Christian ad campaign here in the UK, and those earnest glassy eyed evangelicals that go around knocking on doors. It was presumably the mild irritation that all this induces in those with no need for invisible support, that made the fundraising for this campaign so easy and successful.

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"Knowledge is Power. France is Bacon" - Milton

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