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Author Topic: BREAKING: McCain linked to Saddam Hussein Agents
Colonel Panic
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Icon 4 posted October 15, 2008 16:50      Profile for Colonel Panic         Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
http://www.drudge.com/news/113665/mccain-transition-chief-agent-saddam

Looks like if McCain is elected he will start an immediate transition to treason.

From the fellow who broke the Clinton/Lewinski scandal we read:

"William Timmons, the Washington lobbyist who John McCain has named to head his presidential transition team, aided an influence effort on behalf of Iraqi dictator Saddam Hussein to ease international sanctions against his regime.

The two lobbyists who Timmons worked closely with over a five year period on the lobbying campaign later either pleaded guilty to or were convicted of federal criminal charges that they had acted as unregistered agents of Saddam Hussein's government."


Is it any wonder the candidate who leads rallies to incite the murder his political opposition is a supporter of a man who murdered his political opposition?

Now we know the desperate motives of those who tried to cloud the waters with the Ayres/Obama lies!

CP

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GrumpySteen

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Icon 1 posted October 15, 2008 20:30      Profile for GrumpySteen     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Apparently he's got some hidden love for ACORN, too

http://www.politico.com/blogs/bensmith/1008/Acorn_pushes_back_hugs_McCain.html?showall

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ASM65816
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Icon 2 posted October 17, 2008 16:22      Profile for ASM65816   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Preface: Generally speaking, legal systems deter crime because individuals frequently consider the punishments as outweighing any benefit that crimes may provide.

Timmons: Assuming greed as his motive, it's essentially impossible to argue that he sought to do "grave damage to national security." Second, "no one" knew of his activities until he was specifically investigated.

Ayers: His actions have not been of greed. He and Bernardine Dohrn (his wife) are unrepentant murderous psychopaths. It's a trivial exercise to discover their bombings and "radical activities" from the sixties. Ayers is "crazy" enough that in 2001, he complained he was "taken out of context" for saying "I don't regret setting bombs" and "I feel we didn't do enough." There's a "nice picture" </sarcasm> of Ayers standing on the US flag from "Chicago Magazine." http://www.chicagomag.com/Chicago-Magazine/August-2001/No-Regrets/

quote:
In 1995, State Senator Alice Palmer introduced her chosen successor, Barack Obama, to a few of the district's influential liberals at the home of two well known figures on the local left: William Ayers and Bernardine Dohrn.
The circumstances regarding McCain's "associations" and Obama's "associations" are COMPLETELY different. Obama's associations have been with people and organizations that are VERY PUBLIC and Openly Radical Leftist:
  • William Ayers (and Bernardine Dohrn) - Terrorism against the US in the 1960s and Anti-US in 2001
     
  • Tony Rezko - While under federal investigation, "sold" Obama his Chicago home for $300,000 less than the asking price.
     
  • Rev. Jeremiah Wright - Honored Louis Farrakhan at a gala, bestowing on him its Rev. Dr. Jeremiah A. Wright Jr. Lifetime Achievement Trumpeteer award.
     
  • ACORN - Multiple states investigating voter registration fraud; members convicted of felony charges related to vote fraud; cover-up of Dale Rathke (organization founder's brother) embezzling nearly $1 million.
     
  • Frank Marshall Davis - A "friend and mentor" identified as "Frank" in Obama's "Dreams from My Father", and an ADMITTED Child Rapist (and Communist).
 
Obama's ability as a "judge of character" must be nearly nonexistent.

If Osama bin Laden is caught in the next two months, he'll probably be found working for Obama as an intern from the University of Illinois at Chicago, under the fake name "Dick Stroker" and registered to vote 23 times (through ACORN).

Other thoughts: Why was Obama called "Barry"? Last I heard, Obama refuses to produce a "vault copy" of his Birth Certificate, and records related to him were "blocked" at University of Illinois Chicago? What about records while at Occidental College, Columbia College and Harvard, or maybe law practice client list and billing records/summary?

Assuming the WORST CASE for "friends" of Obama and McCain, the ones for Obama have been very "enthusiastic" about watching America burn. As for McCain's "friends", burning America to the ground would make "stealing" extremely impractical.
 
quote:
October 15, 2008 20:30
Apparently he's got some hidden love for ACORN, too

Caption from picture in article:
"John McCain, in March of 2006, sitting beside Florida Rep. Kendrick Meek at an event Acorn co-sponsored in Florida."

[shake head]   Yes folks, the "Liberal" intellect is very feeble. Sitting beside someone at an "event" is as strong of a connection as being a legal representative in 1995, then providing "leadership training sessions on power", and in 2008 paying $800,000 for "lighting and sound" to a "subsidiary of ACORN" (translation: money laundering front).

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The Famous Druid

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Icon 1 posted October 17, 2008 16:43      Profile for The Famous Druid     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
GIRLS!

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GrumpySteen

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Icon 1 posted October 17, 2008 17:27      Profile for GrumpySteen     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
ASM65816 wrote:
Sitting beside someone at an "event" is as strong of a connection as being a legal representative in 1995, then providing "leadership training sessions on power", and in 2008 paying $800,000 for "lighting and sound" to a "subsidiary of ACORN" (translation: money laundering front).

I note you skipped talking about the part where McCain received $2 million in campaign funding from a dinner organized by Carl H. Lindner Jr., who was found guilty of funding a terrorist organization to the tune of $1.7 million dollars. That's a hell of a lot more than sitting beside someone...

Guilt by association isn't valid in any case, but if you're going to pretend it is, at least stop being a hypocrite and pretending that it doesn't apply to McCain.

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Cap'n Vic

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Icon 1 posted October 17, 2008 18:25      Profile for Cap'n Vic     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Also omitted, Sarah Palin, is married to a terrorist.

quote:
Here's some stuff that AIP founder Joe Vogler said in 1991, a few years before Sarah palled around at his convention:

"The fires of hell are frozen glaciers compared to my hatred for the American government."

"And I won't be buried under their damn flag. I'll be buried in Dawson. And when Alaska is an independent nation they can bring my bones home."

"I'm an Alaskan, not an American. I've got no use for America or her damned institutions."



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(!) (T) = 8-D

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ASM65816
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Icon 1 posted October 17, 2008 21:52      Profile for ASM65816   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
October 17, 2008 17:27
at least stop being a hypocrite and pretending that it doesn't apply to McCain.

I see you didn't understand "different." We'll compare Ayers and Linder:
  • Ayers - Crazy. About 40 years later, he's still "proud" of his acts of terrorism and treasonous behavior.   [crazy]
  • Linder - Not "Crazy." Has done "philanthropist" type things. The money paid to AUC was "protection money" (as in extortion by AUC against Chiquita), and Chiquita paid a $25 million fine as ordered by the Justice Department.
     
  • Ayers - Anti-US. He had his picture taken, clearly standing on an American flag, published in the magazine of a major city, and available around the world via the Internet.
  • Linder - ???. He paid "protection money" to avoid destruction of his business/property. That's a form a "Self-Preservation" -- it's not political.
Here's a situation/question:
  • A thug breaks a man's arm, then demands and gets $100 in "protection money."
     
  • When a cop discovers the man "contributed" to criminal activity, should the cop make the man pay a $100 fine, and then break the man's other arm?
     
          (Don't worry about answering that one.)
 
quote:
October 17, 2008 17:27
Guilt by association isn't valid in any case

Picture this: You're at a bar, drinking with a "friend," and several other people are standing around. Your friend (in a loud voice) says "Did I tell you about when I bombed an Abortion Clinic and a Public Library?" He then takes a minute or two to proudly elaborate on his criminal acts.

Question: Would you continue to associate with such a "friend"?

Of course, if you're Gangsta' then it's your "friends" who are not criminals that would cause you embarrassment   [shake head]

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Cap'n Vic

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Icon 1 posted October 17, 2008 22:00      Profile for Cap'n Vic     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Chicken pot pie!
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GrumpySteen

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Icon 1 posted October 17, 2008 22:27      Profile for GrumpySteen     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Oh let's re-write that a bit more accurately, shall we...

I'm standing in a bar with a friend who confesses that he participated with the Weather Underground in bombing government buildings that they took care to ensure were empty (which screws up your referring to him as 'murderous' elsewhere) as a protest against the Vietnam war at the same time that student protesters were being gunned down at Kent state by the National Guard.

Then he tells me that In the intervening forty years, he's gone on to become a college professor and has even been named the citizen of the year in the city he lives in.

Do I
A) Continue the conversation because I realize that he has turned his life around and is no longer the same person and the world is not the same world it was then

or

B) Shun him because nobody every reforms once they've committed a crime and, since they will continue to commit that same crime over and over again even if it's been forty years since it happened, start a lynch mob.

Since I'm not a raving lunatic, I would choose A and, while you may not believe it, I would not suddenly become a terrorist.

Now let's talk about you, ASM...

Got any friends, past or present, who have ever been in trouble for the law? Don't lie now... we all know someone who has.

You associated with them, however, so you are guilty of whatever they are by your own reasoning. Let's hear some confessions. What are you guilty of by association? Maybe we should we start assembling a lynch mob now, since you'll obviously perpetrate whatever crime anyone you've ever been friends with has committed. We need to be prepared.

Confession is good for the soul. Out with it!

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The Famous Druid

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Icon 1 posted October 17, 2008 23:40      Profile for The Famous Druid     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
FECK!

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Xanthine

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Icon 1 posted October 18, 2008 00:46      Profile for Xanthine     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Steen, you inspired me to make a list of my own.

It was a bit shocking really.

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ASM65816
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Icon 1 posted October 18, 2008 03:01      Profile for ASM65816   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
October 17, 2008 22:27
Now let's talk about you, ASM...

Got any friends, past or present, who have ever been in trouble for the law? Don't lie now... we all know someone who has.

Let's see.... friends that:
  • Committed murder.     No.
  • Charged with robbery.     No.
  • Committed rape.     No.
  • Charged with arson.     No.
  • Committed perjury.     No.
  • Charged with drug trafficking.     No.
  • Charged with assault.     No.
  • Committed blackmail, extortion, or mail/wire fraud.     No.
FYI: I'm not making the list any longer because my friends and I have not done jail time. If my friends have been convicted of any significant crimes, then they've successfully kept them secret. I am not a witness to anyone's criminal activity, although I've had property stolen and could smell marijuana in places I've been.

You can say Traffic Violations (such as exceeding posted speed limits) makes one a "criminal." The people that I know and could accuse of drug use have all been "Liberals" (maybe Libertarians), but my testimony probably wouldn't stand up in court.
 

quote:
... ever been in trouble for the law? Don't lie now... we all know someone who has.
"We all know someone (an associate/friend)"? -- FYI: Maybe not all neighborhoods are rough. If you're going to be absurd, you can define "trouble" as "police give warning after being called" -- that's absurd because it implies one can be a "criminal" without committing crimes.   [shake head]

I'm kind of old ... I'm not into "Grand Theft Auto", "Gangsta Hip-Hop", "Reality TV", and a lot of current "pop culture." Now, if nearly every other person in every other city is associated with people that have been locked up in prison, then I have horribly underestimated the depravity and sickness in this world. In which case, I'll stay where I am, and when the sky turns "black as sackcloth," I can say "oh ... must be the Apocalypse."
 

quote:
Do I ... Continue the conversation because I realize that he has turned his life around

... student protesters were being gunned down at Kent State by the National Guard.

After 40 years, Ayers is still vindictive and seeking "revenge." Since Ayers first bombed a government building, how many "high ranking" officials from those days are still in office? (Probably none.) Let's say seven US presidents have come and gone. Ayers still displays an obsessive hatred of America.

If Ayers wasn't obsessed about the US, maybe he would notice that "real" Communism has not produced a "workers' paradise." Does Ayers know about "World News"? If he does, why is his hatred of the US more important than addressing a couple of genocides in Africa? If Ayers thinks that overthrowing the US government will end killings in Darfur, then he is truly out of his mind. Maybe he thinks that once the US government is toppled, then tyrants around the world will say "WOW ... I should have my citizens revolt against me so we can all live in Utopia!"   [shake head]

quote:
since you'll obviously perpetrate whatever crime .....
So far you're using "crime" as BOOLEAN. The "real world" judges crime on quantity, magnitude, period of activity (time/duration), intent (mental state/age), and kind of act committed.

You can argue that "everyone" is a "criminal", but 3000 years of law generally contradicts that belief.

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The Famous Druid

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Icon 1 posted October 18, 2008 03:03      Profile for The Famous Druid     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
NUNS! NUNS! REVERSE! REVERSE!

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Ashitaka

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Icon 1 posted October 18, 2008 08:31      Profile for Ashitaka     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
oh god I am responding to ASm , what next.

anyways

ASM made this listi thing
quote:
# Committed murder. No. # Charged with robbery. No. # Committed rape. No. # Charged with arson. No. # Committed perjury. No. # Charged with drug traff
and since he used charged and commiteted, I am just wondering if he knows people who have been charged with murder, rape and perjury and if he knows people who have committed robbery, arson, and drug trafficing.

hmmmm


back to your lives now.

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GrumpySteen

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Icon 1 posted October 18, 2008 09:52      Profile for GrumpySteen     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
ASM65816 wrote:
The people that I know and could accuse of drug use have all been "Liberals" (maybe Libertarians), but my testimony probably wouldn't stand up in court.

Yet, by your logic, you knew them, therefore you are guilty of their crimes by association.

Ayers committed terrorist acts 40 years ago and Obama knows him, therefore Obama is a terrorist.

You know people who use drugs, therefore you are a drug user.

Guilt by association DOESN'T WORK. It's not valid.

You can argue that "everyone" is a "criminal", but 3000 years of law generally contradicts that belief.

I think you've gotten confused about which side you're arguing here... I keep saying that guilt by association is not valid. You have been arguing that it is and that Obama is guilty by association.

The law says that guilt by association is not valid. 3,000 years of law contradicts your belief that it is and validates my belief that it isn't.

Thank you for proving my point.

You just lost.

Again.

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ASM65816
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Icon 1 posted October 18, 2008 11:19      Profile for ASM65816   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
You know ... maybe I've ignored the point you've tried to make on "criminals."

How's this:
quote:
Argument:
  1. Given: Slander is a crime. It is the making of false malicious statements against others.
     
  2. Observation: People commonly make false, malicious statements against others.
     
  3. Conclusion: All humans are criminals; usually soon after acquiring language.

Does that fit "Liberal" beliefs? (... or do you even have a "working definition" to define the point where actions become crimes?)
 

quote:
Guilt by association DOESN'T WORK. It's not valid.
I hope you know that "Aiding and Abetting" criminals is illegal. (aka. "Accessory" to crime)

I hope you know that "Harboring a Fugitive" is illegal.

Neither of these require the individual to directly commit a crime -- both of these are result of _associating_ with criminals. It is not "knowing a murderer makes you a murderer" -- it's "helping a murderer commit a murder or escape punishment for murder makes you an ACCESSORY TO MURDER" (probably oversimplified, look up "accessory after the fact").

In your defense, if someone is a brainless dolt, then it would be understandable if he associated with "criminals" for years and never noticed things that police would consider "hard evidence." In fact, a brainless dolt in the company of criminals would likely aid, abet, and harbor fugitives and criminals hundreds of times in the course of years.

At what point does a witness begin "aiding" criminals by failing to give evidence/testimony to law enforcement? Do you think "Community Watch" programs are unfair, or wrong, or part of a government conspiracy to advance "the totalitarian state"?

Consider this: You see a Mafia thug kill someone, but you tell the police nothing. On a later date, you see the same thug kill another person, but you tell the police nothing. A month after that, you see the same thug kill another person, but you tell the police nothing. And after that, you see the same thug kill another person, but you tell the police nothing. Was "doing nothing" the right thing?

Now that I think about it, Obama is, and has been, a lawyer. Maybe he knows all kinds of dirty, nasty secrets about ACORN but Attorney-client privilege means it would be "wrong" for him to reveal them. As for the "association" with Rezko, hundreds of thousands of dollars seem to have passed between them, so that's a little more than "sitting and talking together" type association.

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The Famous Druid

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Icon 1 posted October 18, 2008 12:45      Profile for The Famous Druid     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
JACOBS CREEK CHARDONNAY 1991!

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Grummash

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Icon 1 posted October 18, 2008 13:33      Profile for Grummash     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
TFD - this isn't aimed at you, but needs to be said....

La La La LA-dee-Laaa I CAN'T HEAR YOU La-dee-La- de LA-LAAAA!

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GrumpySteen

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Icon 1 posted October 18, 2008 14:20      Profile for GrumpySteen     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
ASM:
Let's get this out of the way first...

1) ACORN has nothing to do with Ayers and terrorism.
2) Nobody is claiming that ACORN submitting false voter registrations is a terrorist act.
3) Even if Obama did something improper with ACORN, it does nothing to support your argument that he is a terrorist.

You fail at distraction.

ASM65816 wrote:
I hope you know that "Aiding and Abetting" criminals is illegal. (aka. "Accessory" to crime)

I hope you know that "Harboring a Fugitive" is illegal.


Perhaps you should re-read the definitions of the big words before you use them. I shall try to educate you (futile as that may be).

Aiding and abetting is defined as "knowingly, voluntarily, and with common intent uniting with the principal offender in the commission of a crime." You have to actually commit the crime to be guilty of this. That is an example of guilt by participation, not guilt by association.

Harboring a fugitive is the act of knowingly hiding a wanted criminal from the authorities. This is something you have to actively do. This is another example of guilt by participation, not guilt by association.

In addition, harboring a fugitive does make you guilty of the crimes of the fugitive. If you hide a murderer, it does not make you a murderer. Claiming that it does make you a murderer would be an example of guilt by association.

Now that we understand the meaning of the big words, let's continue.

Obama had no association with Ayers until 1995... 15 years after the charges against Ayers were dismissed.

You cannot claim that Obama participated in the crimes that Ayers committed 25 years before he met Obama. Obama cannot be guilty of aiding and abetting those crimes.

You also cannot claim Obama harbored a fugitive because Ayers turned himself in 15 years before they met, was tried and released. Ayers has not been a fugitive from the law at any point in time since 1995, therefore Obama cannot be guilty of harboring a fugitive.

All that is left is your belief that Obama's association with Ayers decades after the Ayers' crimes makes him guilty of Ayers' crimes. What you're pushing is guilt by association which, by your own admission, is not a valid argument.

You've lost the argument...
and because I know that it will just kill you to see me post it...

I WIN

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Mr Agreeable
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Icon 1 posted October 18, 2008 14:47      Profile for Mr Agreeable     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by ASM65816:
if someone is a brainless dolt, then it would be understandable if he associated with "criminals" for years and never noticed things that police would consider "hard evidence."

I agree.

quote:
Originally posted by ASM65816:
people that I know and could accuse of drug use
my testimony probably wouldn't stand up in court

I agree.
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Callipygous
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Icon 1 posted October 18, 2008 18:01      Profile for Callipygous     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by ASM65816:
quote:
October 17, 2008 22:27
Now let's talk about you, ASM...

Got any friends, past or present, who have ever been in trouble for the law? Don't lie now... we all know someone who has.

Let's see.... friends that:
  • Committed murder.     No.
  • Charged with robbery.     No.
  • Committed rape.     No.
  • Charged with arson.     No.
  • Committed perjury.     No.
  • Charged with drug trafficking.     No.
  • Charged with assault.     No.
  • Committed blackmail, extortion, or mail/wire fraud.     No.
FYI: I'm not making the list any longer because my friends and I
<snip> endless ASM witterings and maunderings</snip>

ASM why not cut to the chase?

You have no friends. And are we surprised?.....

As for your tiresome old Ayers schtick, I was around in the late '60s early '70's, and though I was never even sympathetic to the radical left wing politics of that time, it was for example still not uncommon in the uncommitted circles in which I moved at that time to occasionally run across people expressing unqualified admiration for Mao Tse Tung and his cultural revolution, something that would of course appal 99.9999% of the population now. It might also surprise you to know that the people in this forum who remind me the most of Ayers and his ilk at that time are the 100% committed movement conservatives such as yourself and Mr & Mrs Chesty. Like the left wing radicals of that time, you are idealist utopians, deeply repelled by the shortcomings of society as it is, who believe strongly that your political faith is the wave of the future which will build a brighter and better world. Like him your faith is so absolute, that you end up having contempt for the democratic process as the majority seem to be too stupid or brainwashed to recognise the rightness of your beliefs. This caused Mr Ayers to participate in a few dangerous bombings as political theatre, which luckily killed nobody but resulted in the group itself waking up to the murderous reality of the nonsense they believed in. In the case of the Republicans now it has led to an acceptance that old fashioned ideas of honour, truthfulness, fair dealing, and mutual respect can never get in the way of achieving your "noble" aims, and in your and Mr and Mrs Chesty's case, it has so far led you to spreading poisonous smears about Obama that could well induce an assassination attempt by some misguided dupe.

Admittedly nothing yet as bad as the place Ayers landed up in, but who knows what the movement conservatives will do, or how far they will go to promote their failed discredited ideology, as they become more desperate, as the moment of truth at the polls gets nearer and nearer.

So in short I think you should cut Mr Ayers some slack. If you were born a couple of decades earlier, you might well have either sympathised with, or even belonged to his group. Perhaps also now that recent events have made your economic ideology bankrupt along with much of Wall St, it might also be time to reconsider your own absolutist political faith, just as Mr Ayers had to rethink his own.

Maybe it's time to grow up.

--------------------
"Knowledge is Power. France is Bacon" - Milton

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ASM65816
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Icon 2 posted October 18, 2008 22:02      Profile for ASM65816   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Part I: Democrats' ("Liberals") Bias and Hypocrisy

First an observation: "Liberals" never use guilt by association against "Republicans" because they (seem to) believe that being Republican/Conservative makes one SUPER-Evil. If a "Liberal" saw the Devil standing with a bunch of Republicans, he'd say "AHA!!! The Devil actually might be Evil, except I shouldn't judge the Devil for standing around with a bunch of Republicans."

Second, it looks like "the Democrats" have an Extreme Double Standard because the chances of them not investigating Tony Rezko's "shady deals" with a Republican Presidential Candidate would be essentially nil. If ACORN had a reputation for trying to register Republican voters, the chances of Democrats not opening a criminal investigation against ACORN and "screaming bloody murder" against the Republican Presidential Candidate for vote fraud would be essentially nil.
 

Part II: It's a Person's Values and Beliefs that Associations Generally Reflect
quote:
October 18, 2008 09:52
Ayers committed terrorist acts 40 years ago and _X_ knows him, therefore _X_ is a terrorist.
You know people who use drugs, therefore you are a drug user.
Guilt by association DOESN'T WORK. It's not valid.

You have deliberately misrepresented why people pay attention to someone's associates. To use High School analogies, people almost always stick with "their clique." The group where someone spends the most time generally indicates common interests, and that usually indicates a person's values and beliefs.

It's extremely rare for people to "hang out" with a group that has beliefs which are "radically different" from one's own beliefs. Do you routinely "hang out" with people that like to display the US flag and say things like "America, the Free Market, and Modern Western Society are Great!" (I am betting that you don't "hang out" with those people.)
 

Part III: Accessory After the Fact
quote:
US Code Collection:
Whoever, knowing that an offense against the United States has been committed, receives, relieves, comforts or assists the offender in order to hinder or prevent his apprehension, trial or punishment, is an accessory after the fact.

Has Obama "failed" to notify the US government about misconduct by ACORN? Specifically, misuse of public funds.

Accessory After the Fact means: ACORN may have misused public funds, committed fraud, whatever........ However, Obama can charged as an Accessory After the Fact -- years after a criminal offense by ACORN -- by "knowing that an offense against the United States has been committed" and "hindering or preventing apprehension, trial, or punishment."

It's Ayers' role in Chicago Annenberg Challenge (CAC, 1995) that poses the greatest political risk to Obama, not Ayers' life 40 years ago. If it can be shown that Obama discovered CAC misconduct (even years after the fact), he's going to have to explain why he didn't "correct the problem" or notify government authorities. Ayers said "I don't regret setting bombs" and "I feel we didn't do enough." Is he still pursuing his radical Leftist agenda? Did Ayers use Chicago Annenberg Challenge (CAC) for political ends, violating public funding laws?
 

PS: .....
quote:
October 18, 2008 18:01
If you were born a couple of decades earlier, you might well have either sympathized with, or even belonged to his group.

Doubt it. Communism/"Socialism" does not work because it's based on false concepts of human behavior. By attempting to make societies function under laws that violate natural order, millions have been slaughtered, and the remaining millions live under poverty and oppression.
 
quote:
Perhaps also now that recent events have made your economic ideology bankrupt along with much of Wall St
Remember how I said FRAUD was the problem with Medicare? Fraud (and the "socialist" agenda of making "loans" to people who can't repay them) caused the current financial collapse. Without FRAUD, Medicare could actually be something Americans could brag about (or maybe not).

Fraud is Fraud -- it's a criminal activity. Ever study economics? Know about "Supply Curve"? Know about "Demand Curve"? Do you know why there's no "Fraud Curve"? It's because Fraud is CRIME -- NOT Capitalism. </angry rant>

I Triple-Dog-Dare you, say something stupid like: "Fraud had nothing to with the current financial collapse -- the truth is Capitalism can't possibly work except in theories."

--------------------
Once a proud programmer of Apple II's, he now spends his days and nights in cheap dives fraternizing with exotic dancers....

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ASM65816
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Icon 4 posted October 18, 2008 22:26      Profile for ASM65816   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Free Economics Lesson (Double Post)

Feeding, Clothing, and Caring for a Baby is "Capitalism."

If feeding, clothing, and caring for a baby was Socialism -- parents would still be feeding, clothing, and caring for the "baby" after 40 years, with no expectations of the "baby" returning anything to society or the parents.

Raising a child is an Investment. "All" parents want their children to be prosperous (and happy). Prosperous means building wealth, enough that one's children can "invest" in the next generation and still have enough left over to live better than the generations of the past.

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Once a proud programmer of Apple II's, he now spends his days and nights in cheap dives fraternizing with exotic dancers....

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The Famous Druid

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Icon 1 posted October 19, 2008 01:39      Profile for The Famous Druid     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
THAT WOULD BE AN ECUMENICAL MATTER!

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If you watch 'The History Of NASA' backwards, it's about a space agency that has no manned spaceflight capability, then does low-orbit flights, then lands on the Moon.

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Stereo

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Icon 4 posted October 19, 2008 06:03      Profile for Stereo     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by ASM65816:
If feeding, clothing, and caring for a baby was Socialism -- parents would still be feeding, clothing, and caring for the "baby" after 40 years, with no expectations of the "baby" returning anything to society or the parents.

And with this, you just prove beyond doubt that you have no idea what socialism is.

Socialism would be that you rear the new-born to the best of ability because there is nothing else he can do beyond sleep, eat - and learn basic skills. As he grow up, you expect the infant to walk by himself (although he may grow tired fast), and maybe pretend to help gathering his toys. Then, later in life, he will be expected to bring back his plate after a meal, make his bed, go to school and learn valuable skills, help with the house chores, continue to go to school to learn marketable skills, win his own money, maybe study some more, then either go out and live by himself or help with the house expenses. In short, socialism is about helping others when they can't, and having others help back to the extent of their abilities. Oh, wait: raising a child IS socialism! [Big Grin]

(And pure capitalism would be throwing the baby out of the house because he cost more than you are willing to pay while bringing in nothing, so you go out and adopt an older child and put him to work right away. [crazy] )

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Eppur, si muove!

Galileo Galilei

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