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Author Topic: check out this foreclosure video
YaYawoman

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Icon 1 posted October 01, 2008 11:16      Profile for YaYawoman     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Hey guys. Last new topic from me for today, honest. This is a link to a blog that posted a newsreport about the inland empire foreclosure crisis.

http://corgiguy.gohds.net/?ch=1.0.143.0.SOCAL:FORECLOSURE-ALLEY.

I watched it start to finish and the intense sadness and anger I was left with surprised me. The depth of the emotions was stunning.

I was sad because I was watching a families hopes and dreams pile into a dumpster one trashbag ata time. I was saddened since so much usable stuff was going to a landfill. I was saddened that such a new business is thriving.

I was angry because this family had plenty of time to plan to leave without abandoning so much. I was angry because all those things were just that, things, things that the american people have wasted so much time, effort, and other people's money acquiring only to let them be tossed to the curb. I was angry that so much was malinvested and wasted by da boyz and now they come hat in hand begging for 700 bil.tarp facilities to save them fromt thier stupidity.

That unnamed family and the boys on the street are both guilty of stupidity, greed, avarciousness and negligence. Why save the catz and boyz on the street and not the sheep at the bottom? ( I am opposed to both personally, but for the people who support the failout, why them and not the littles? Or vice versa?)

I am sad and angry at myself as well. I have wasted so much also. I have wasted time, and ability, and wasted my money on cheap things for short term happiness only to toss them later. I am guilty on a much smaller scale as the former homeowners and the boyz.

Argghhh. All this clarity and soul searching is a pain the goddamn ass, life was much easier when i could sit back and enjoy the roasting of wall street without having to accept my similarity to them, and my ennabling of them evein if it was in very very reduced ways. (big difference in blowing 10 bucks in future landfill dollar store crap and blowing 100 million in pension dollars on mbs crap, but only in scale i have realized)

I have emailed and called both va senators and my rep. Twice now. I still oppose the bailout, but now i will also have to review my whole citizen vs consumer lifestyle.

Thansk for letting me vent. see you around.

Posts: 765 | From: virginia | Registered: Oct 2005  |  IP: Logged
tweety
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Icon 1 posted October 01, 2008 11:42      Profile for tweety   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
YaYa – I completely understand where you're coming from. But, what about those of us who didn't waste money on needless crap, but spent what little they had and then some on trying to get a new venture going? What about those who, through no fault of their own, found themselves jobless?

There needs to be a solution to this mess that allows those who deserve it the credit they need while punishing the pinheads, yes on Wall Street and in DC, for allowing, aiding and abetting this whole disaster. The only difference I see between now and that dark, dark day in 1929 is that no one's thrown themselves out of a window.

While the liquidity is present, fear has gripped the minds of all and no one is lending, therefore, no one is selling. Not just Wal-Mart, but the guy in his small store, the couple with a dream of their own business but who require significant capital to get it going. Without the resources and credit needed to purchase products/services, they will have nothing with which to conduct business. If these people lose, the Great Depression is going to look like a shallow valley.

The solution needs to open up the credit markets again so that Joe and Jane Sumbiddy /can/ purchase the car they need and John Bizmanstein /can/ get the loan he needs for his company. Remember, something like 80% of all US businesses are small businesses. They don't have the capital to see them through these rough patches. Aside from GarlicGuy I know at least a half dozen small business owners who are being royally fscked by this whole situation. Of those half dozen I know only two who still consider themselves open.

So, for all the Free Market rah! rah! rah! and for all I might agree that the market will correct itself and this is for the greater long-term good, there are a great many people who will lose everything when they don't deserve it; not because they are great people, simply because without this credit crisis they would continue to have sound, viable businesses.

BTW – I saw the whole housing mess coming 2 or 3 years ago, no one I know, aside from Mrs Tweety, believed me. I also saw the run up of Apple stock to $200 along with the pull-back. Current financial mess will take 5 years, at the least, to crawl out from under. If you're thinking of selling your home, wait 2 years. Apple stock will come back up by early '09 to the $170 level, but it's going to be a rough ride up. Expect AAPL to be $210+ by end of '09. MSFT might hit $32 over the next 6 - 12 months, but overall I expect it to remain relatively flat.

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If I were a good man I'd talk to you more often than I do.
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Posts: 454 | From: IL | Registered: May 2005  |  IP: Logged
YaYawoman

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Icon 1 posted October 01, 2008 12:04      Profile for YaYawoman     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
hi tweety

From what i have beenhearing credit is still available, it is just not available for marginal borrowers.

People can still get mortgages, just with a much much higher fico than has been used in the bubble, with a larger down payment, ranging from 10 percent to 30 percent.

the days of cheap credit extended to any and all is over. gone.

Which as painful as it is and will be for the shorterm future in the long run is a good thing.

The cheap credit was an aberration, a manifestation of the mania,and it is gone. The "credit crisis" is really a return to previous sane lending standards.

The IBs and companies and funds that are in trouble drank the koolaid, and all their risk managment and risk pricing tools assumed easy cheap ever expanding credit. Regular people also expected it, hence the outrage over reduced or cancelled helocs.

I am sorry that you or people you know are struggling with a small business. I do wish you luck and good fortune, but honestly I think the next 5 years will be an incredibly painful and interesting economic reset and re-alignment.

My main reason for being against the bailout is that it will not help. It will not forestall the housing deflation, or the credit contraction, or the pain from deleveraging that will pour through the system. It will not save the jobs that will be lost over the next 3 years, it will not keep the businesses from closing and filing bk. If they feel the burnign need to spend 700 billion, better to shore up the fdic, get ready for the explosion of foodstamp apps, HUD housing, section 8 and shelters and retraining. There is no solution available that will keep the pain from happening, none.

I was prudent in many respects also, never a new car, did not overextend with a liar loan into a house, did not binge on credit.

I guess just a long winded way to say i dont know.

I just felt the need to vent about the conflicting feelings that bubbled up watching that video, and the sense of revulsion as I realized that even though i was not one of the pigs, i was in some ways culpable, even if it was only in scale, that attitude was present in me in small ways, and i need to pluck it out. No more wasting and frittering, whether it is time, money or emotions.

Hang in there tweety.

EDIT: When I use the word pig above I am referring to the wall street muckety mucks, like fuld at lehmans, oh woe and alas his lehman holdings which were formerly evaluated at 247 million was just sold for 500k and OMG he and his wife are reduced to selling her modern art collection for 20 million to keep it all afloat alas alack. Sorry, but that was the tone of the article, even the rich are suffering too. pigz.

PS EDIT: sorry tweety, forgot one of the biggest points i meant to put in. Be ready for harder times, chatter i have read has implied that this bailout will CAUSE smaller business funding/lending to dry up even more, GD type dry-up. for the 700 bil the treasury is planning on 3 month treasury issues but that is the timeline for most commercial paper, so it is starting to seem possible that an unintended consequence of the bailout will be a draining of liquidity from the working capital divisions of banks (money for business) to treasuries. ouch.

hang in ther and buckle up.

Posts: 765 | From: virginia | Registered: Oct 2005  |  IP: Logged
tweety
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Icon 1 posted October 01, 2008 15:08      Profile for tweety   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
YaYa – Thanks, that seems to help put a somewhat clearer picture on the whole thing for me. Just so you know, I've got all the financial resources required if need be. My main concern is more along the lines of if this doesn't pan out, will I be able to find a job?

I'm conflicted on the bailout as well. At first I was against the insurance idea McCain proposed, but now I'm thinking it might be a better idea. It might just be the thing needed to let banks and investors breathe a little easier and open up the lending purse strings, at least bank-to-bank. There's liquid capital in the markets from what I understand, but no one's sharing.

I think the economy needs something, just not so sure what it is. I do agree with you, though, this is going to be painful for a lot of people, but might be exactly what the doctor ordered. Kind of like treatment for heroin addiction: strapped in to a hospital bed for 72 hours until the demons are all gone.

You're not alone in your inner conflict. This seems to be one of those you're damned if you do, damned if you don't moments.

Lastly, I'm not an economist (sorry, couldn't help myself), but I have been pretty good at predicting economic trends. My prediction, as stated in another thread, is that the US is heading toward a more Socialist economy. More gov't oversight of Wall Street, more gov't involvement with big business, more gov't control of banking, especially the big guys. I can see it now, financial laws that state that as long as you play according to the rules, all is fine. Step out of line and be nationalized.

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If I were a good man I'd talk to you more often than I do.
American Fairy Tales
IT, A Philosophy

Posts: 454 | From: IL | Registered: May 2005  |  IP: Logged
GrumpySteen

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Icon 1 posted October 01, 2008 17:34      Profile for GrumpySteen     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
On the bright side, all the idiots that kept saying that there wasn't a housing bubble and that prices would recover in six months or a year have finally shut up.

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Posts: 6364 | From: Tennessee | Registered: Jan 2000  |  IP: Logged
Colonel Panic
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Icon 1 posted October 01, 2008 17:42      Profile for Colonel Panic         Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by tweety:
There needs to be a solution to this mess that allows those who deserve it the credit ...

Why do you deserve the credit?

CP

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TheMoMan
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Icon 1 posted October 02, 2008 03:22      Profile for TheMoMan         Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
___________________ Hi Yall This is from some one that has been there. I am sure some of you have seen the movie Roger & Me (Mike Moore)

Early last Century C.S.Mott bailed out "Billy" William Durant and ended up with a controlling interest in a car company.

C.S.Mott had a huge stake in the company so large that they would never dare to anger him. Once he died the company only had to worry about his wife getting angry, and then too she died and left all of those prefered stocks to the C.S.Mott Childrens Foundation, however foundations may not vote at Board of director meetings.

Flint became a ghost town as GM pulled more and more work out of the Genesee County area, laid off people and began the process of out sourcing. Downtown Flint is not like it was fifty years ago, Chevy along the river gone, Buick along the river gone, Ternstedt flat all the little mom and pop businesses that sold snacks lottery tickets, small bottles of boose to lunch break workers all gone.

Whirlpool over in Benton Harbor has been through this also, I have watched jobs go out of state and out of the country for thirty years.

All this time these Capital Money men have been raking in the workers souls, and livelyhoods, stealing their dreams and property.

When will it END.

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Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.


Benjamin Franklin,

Posts: 5836 | From: Just South of the Huron National Forest, in the water shed of the Rifle River | Registered: Sep 2002  |  IP: Logged
nibbler
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Icon 1 posted October 02, 2008 07:39      Profile for nibbler   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
While it is sad that people lose their homes - most of these situations are because folks wanted a bigger house or a nicer neighborhood than they could afford.

In that clip you notice that the people had to have a five foot TV. You see all the things they left behind. They overspent foolishly.

I live in a modest little house and drive cars that I pay cash for. I bet when those people left the stuff behind they drove off in $50,000 cars on which they were also behind on payments.

All this to impress others when they could have been building wealth on more modest homes and cars.

Pride goes before a fall.

One of the best books you could ever read is
The Millionaire Next Door

You can really relax when you aren't teetering on the precipice of your own making.

And for the folks in Flint. A friend of mine in college bragged about how her father raked in seventy grand a year (1980's seventy grand) and barely worked because the unions had made such sweet deals. If the Michigan workers had been a little less greedy at the bargaining table they might still have meat on their tables.

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Myrtle Beach, Dude January Ski Trip Spring Break

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GrumpySteen

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Icon 1 posted October 02, 2008 09:08      Profile for GrumpySteen     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Nibbler:
People who walk away leaving behind personal photos and other mementos are more than likely distraught, not thinking clearly and could well be on their way to commiting suicide.

Yes, they fucked up... but that doesn't make your callous remarks any less distasteful. Try not being a jackass for just once.

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tweety
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Icon 1 posted October 02, 2008 09:36      Profile for tweety   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
CP – My credit rating is very good, my wife's even better. I don't think about whether or not I deserve credit. However, what I was getting at is that there are people who are fiscally responsible and able to repay their debts, they deserve credit.

nibbler – once again, you fall into the Republican (notice I never say conservative) trap of blanket statements and how people are lazy and greedy and everyone deserves to suffer for what /you/ perceive as sins. We, as individuals, are as much a product of our culture as our families. Our entire culture is built on materialism. Not thrift, not charity. Materialism. (Please also note I say little on greed.)

In the tweety house we live on very little. We spend little, we keep our grocery bill low, our energy bill low, and we always ask ourselves how much do we really need x, y or z. We don't own a home (though we did at one point) and our car is probably a good harsh winter away from the junk heap. Without getting into details, the current situation for us will either prove beneficial or we will literally be shopping for a street corner to bed down on in a few months. All for pursuing the American Dream and being thrifty. So, please stop with your assault on our intelligence with your Republican parrot talk. It's insulting, disrespectful and totally out of touch with reality. Not to say there does not exist a valid point. Merely, what holds true for one does not necessarily hold true for all, or even many.

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If I were a good man I'd talk to you more often than I do.
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Posts: 454 | From: IL | Registered: May 2005  |  IP: Logged
Colonel Panic
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Icon 1 posted October 02, 2008 09:50      Profile for Colonel Panic         Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Tweety,

Try local banks. Many work from their own asset bases and aren't involved with the MBS mess. My understanding is that they are still lending to people and businesses with good credit.

I understand you have a business. My question was directed toward that. It's a basic question: Why does it deserve credit? What is your purpose in the market?

I'm curious.

CP

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Posts: 1809 | From: Glacier Melt, USA | Registered: Mar 2002  |  IP: Logged
tweety
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Icon 1 posted October 02, 2008 10:18      Profile for tweety   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
CP – I'd like to tell the entire world, but am of the mind to keep things under wraps until the ink is dry. Our company is in the consumer goods market, so we've been feeling the pinch since at least March.

As for why we would deserve credit, it has everything to do with the current deal we're working on. When it comes through it's a guarantee (we've dealt with this particular company before and unlike some others they actually pay on time). But, the real deal is that after some digging it turns out we have all the credit we need at the moment. Maybe even more than we need, which is good. Hence, I'm no longer worried about getting the credit we would need. I'm just worried about other folks with small/medium businesses who might need credit lines to pursue business that will keep them going and finding that funding sources are extremely limited or non-existent. It's an extra layer of headache and worry that's just not needed, and for some it might be the little nudge that sends them packing. I don't worry about the big boys, it's the small guy who's mortgaged their soul for a brighter future I feel for.

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If I were a good man I'd talk to you more often than I do.
American Fairy Tales
IT, A Philosophy

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Xanthine

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Icon 1 posted October 02, 2008 14:28      Profile for Xanthine     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Y'know, I'm sitting here and I suddenly realized that while this market crunch sucks, it isn't impacting me much. Yet. I'm too low on the food chain to feel it. Even if the credit limit on my Visa contracts by half I won't feel it (my credit limit is ~ half my annual take home; I have no idea why that happened as I've never come close to even half of what my current credit limit is).

Unless inflation hits. Then I'll feel it.

And, of course, there's the perennial funding thing scientists face. Hopefully I'll win that fellowship I applied for. That well's only going to get drier in the coming years, no matter who wins the White House. That's the sad reality of a $800 billion bailout that's piling on to the federal deficit.

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MacManKrisK

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Icon 1 posted October 02, 2008 15:40      Profile for MacManKrisK     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Xanthine:
Y'know, I'm sitting here and I suddenly realized that while this market crunch sucks, it isn't impacting me much. Yet. I'm too low on the food chain to feel it.

I haven't said anything up to now, but I, too, am as-yet personally unaffected by the depression.. I mean economic slow-down. I have no credit, no outstanding debts, and I live well under the poverty line.

The declining value of the dollar has hit home a bit, my grocery bill is up from $30/wk to about $40/wk, and my electricity costs about $.00005 more per kWh than previously. And of course there's the price of gas....

I guess what I'm trying to say, though, is that I'm glad I'm poor, as I really have nothing to lose. [Smile]

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"Buy low, sell high
get rich and you still die"


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TheMoMan
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Icon 1 posted October 03, 2008 07:25      Profile for TheMoMan         Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
____________________ de TheMoMan __ I am often blamed for the demise of the US auto industry, but its self implosion was brought on by mismanagement. As for the greedy auto workers, while I was making $15 an hour/ GM was making $142 a second that was their profit, after paying me my $0.004166667 a second. Any more "our greed killed the goose statements?" Very few of the workers that retired before me are still alive, Five years seems to be the average, I have beat that by six months, If I have to go back to work my health is such that I would not be able to last long, too many years of breathing Die Lube from working in Press rooms or grinding dust when sharping the dies. The cleanest job I had was running EDM machines those fumes will kill, we used to bet on how long a sparrow would last if it flew into the area. They would fly up to the skylights only to find that the screens blocked their escape.

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Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.


Benjamin Franklin,

Posts: 5836 | From: Just South of the Huron National Forest, in the water shed of the Rifle River | Registered: Sep 2002  |  IP: Logged
Colonel Panic
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Icon 1 posted October 03, 2008 14:57      Profile for Colonel Panic         Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Of course there are other ways to force forclosure.

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,432401,00.html

Go Republicans! Who cares about 90-year old little old ladies anyway?

CP

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Free! Free at last!

Posts: 1809 | From: Glacier Melt, USA | Registered: Mar 2002  |  IP: Logged
Colonel Panic
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Icon 1 posted October 04, 2008 13:15      Profile for Colonel Panic         Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
It's good to see that this lady survived. And the mortgage holder paid off her mortgage.

Now how are we going to help out Mo_Man after his 401k loss?

CP

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Free! Free at last!

Posts: 1809 | From: Glacier Melt, USA | Registered: Mar 2002  |  IP: Logged


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