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Author Topic: Debates last night...
PaintedBlue
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Icon 5 posted September 27, 2008 14:40      Profile for PaintedBlue   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Hi, newbie here! [Smile]

I'm a rabid follower of politics and I was really looking forward to the debate last night.
I decided beforehand to do my best to watch with a non-biased eye, so I meditated away negative thoughts as best I could and then sat back to watch the volleying.

I thoroughly enjoyed it, but must say I was surprised this morning when I began reading the opinion of so many who gave the debate to Obama.

I honestly thought Senator McCain would easily be declared "the winner" of this round.

While I thought Senator Obama did very well, I found his "chomping at the bit" a tad immature/green in contrast to McCain's calm, assertive approach to the questions and re-addresses.
Also, I was disappointed that Senator Obama did not set a better example for the multitudes of youth that follow his lead in respect to repeatedly calling Senator McCain "John" whereas McCain never once referred to Obama as "Barack."
It's just common respect, especially when dealing with someone who's older and been in "the business" much longer than you.

The expansive knowledge on foreign policy in McCain's favor was a given...so I won't go into any depth there.

I am eager to hear opinions from others regarding the "winner" in their opinion. [Smile]

Cheers!
Michele

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stevenback7
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Icon 1 posted September 27, 2008 16:22      Profile for stevenback7   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
"It's just common respect, especially when dealing with someone who's older and been in "the business" much longer than you."

What business is this?

I can't comment on the debate since I was on a 3 hour train ride home when it was on TV. But Mcain and Obama are "friends", and a sign of friendship is to call that person by there first name.

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PaintedBlue
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Icon 1 posted September 27, 2008 18:00      Profile for PaintedBlue   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
The "business" of politics, or any business for that matter. Not saying he's better or worse, but McCain has been politicking for more than half of Obama's life.

Also, last I heard, they were not "friends." I believe it was Pat Buchanan speaking on CNN last night (correct me if I am wrong on the who or the where) - and when the pundits were pointing out that McCain did not look at Obama when speaking to him, he said, "Of course he didn't look at him, he doesn't like him!"

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stevenback7
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Icon 1 posted September 27, 2008 19:36      Profile for stevenback7   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
PaintedBlue - This is why you vote for Obama. It might be true that Obama isn't best friends with McCain just as he wasn't best friends with Clinton. But like with Clinton, Obama was able to show respect and would be able to work with McCain and the Republicans but the same can't be said about McCain.

McCain has missed the majority of the votes in Washington, he has the worst record. So the "I am older, so I'm better - vote for me" dosn't work because he has missed the majority of work.

Overal, your decision is easy. No matter your IQ level, you will vote for OBAMA.

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Xanthine

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Icon 1 posted September 27, 2008 20:36      Profile for Xanthine     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
McCain and Obama are the presidential nominees for their political parties. In the setting of the presidential campaign, they are peers. There's no need for titles to be passed between them. On the Senate floor, I don't know what the rules are. But they weren't on the Senate floor.

I listened to the debate on NPR. I don't know anything about eye contact or fidgeting as I couldn't see anything, but McCain definitely came off as condescending. Some of this was posturing, I'm sure. He was trying to make sure Obama looked naive and wow, was it was annoying. I don't think I could have been so patient with that sort of crap as Obama was, but, then again, as a white person it is my privilege to flash my temper (though this privilege is a bit tempered by my being female).

In general, I agreed with Obama's positions more than I agreed with McCain's (but not entirely, I'm harder left than Obama and think he's too watered down on some points). I also preferred Obama's style. He came across as the more thoughtful. Sometiems even too thoughtful - he started doing the professor thing a couple times but checked himself (no surprise - he is a professor). But in terms of who won? I thought it was a draw. However, the polls suggest that people think Obama won. Independents in particular (the voters who're really going to send this thing one way or the other), preferred Obama. OTOH, pundits declared McCain the winner. The discrepancy is explained here, but the upshot is, McCain was talking to pundits and Obama was talking to voters. Smart move, there.

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Sxeptomaniac

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Icon 1 posted September 27, 2008 23:22      Profile for Sxeptomaniac   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Xanthine:
I listened to the debate on NPR. I don't know anything about eye contact or fidgeting as I couldn't see anything, but McCain definitely came off as condescending. Some of this was posturing, I'm sure. He was trying to make sure Obama looked naive and wow, was it was annoying. I don't think I could have been so patient with that sort of crap as Obama was, but, then again, as a white person it is my privilege to flash my temper (though this privilege is a bit tempered by my being female).

I also found McCain's overly theatrical patronizing really annoying. There were also points where McCain was misrepresenting Obama's position, IMO, so I'm not surprised he was anxious to answer those.

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TheMoMan
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Icon 1 posted September 28, 2008 07:04      Profile for TheMoMan         Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
__________________ de TheMoMan __ PaintedBlue I usually do not reply directly to Noobs as they usually go away and I feel that I may have driven them off.

From your post you appear conservative, do you work for yourself or are you employed?

I myself am retired, I also like to think I am Middle of the Road, many here would disagree on that.

I do not begrudge a business making a profit, it is profit at all costs that bothers me.

Yes I came from a Union shop, but a Union is never voted into a place of business unless management caused the workers to feel threatened, "If a business has a union it is because they earned it". Remember that the workers had to fill out the Dept. of Labor checkoff cards.

And then vote against their boss.

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Benjamin Franklin,

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Colonel Panic
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Icon 1 posted September 28, 2008 07:47      Profile for Colonel Panic         Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
I watched the debate on CNN where there were dial meters given to people who had either identified themselves as Independent, Democrat, or Republican.

From the meters, I had a sense that Obama had won the debate. And he seemed to win it with the dial-test audience because of McCain's condescending remarks. Every time McCain went in that direction the meters plunged.

Obama was very strong early when the topics were on the economy. Later in the debate, where many thought McCain had an edge because of his foreign policy experience, I thought Obama held his own. That's all Obama had to do there.

Painted Blue, I do believe there to be a core group of conservatives who enjoy the bellicose belligerence of a George W. Bush -- after all there 25% to 30% of the nation think he's doing a swell job. However most of us are sick of it.

As for the respect issue. Did you leave all of your biases behind? Or are you another frightened conservative white woman who felt that the black boy did not give the white man respect? And your comment about him being immature/green is it simply a cleaned-up way of saying, "that black man doesn't know his place?" The first sentence of your fifth paragraph does come across that way to me.

Tell me one more thing, Michelle. I know from my career background that the Republican Party has a large budget that it uses to pay professional writers to write letters to newspapers and to post into forums like this one. So it is virtually inevitable that we will get hit here with those messages. This is your first post here, so I wonder, were you paid to write your message?

Colonel Panic

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shentzu
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Icon 1 posted September 28, 2008 08:15      Profile for shentzu     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
i watched the debate at my father in-laws. he is very pro repub, and not for any good reasons, and i don't suffer fools gladly, so i decided that discretion is the better part of valor and watched the debate. i didn't listen. i listen to my iPod.

my impression of the debate, without sound, is that McCain went back and forth between his "get off my lawn you damn whippersnappers!" face and his fake looking frozen smile. he is creepy as hell. Obama generally looks like he is thinking. i find that refreshing after all the years we have had a moron in the whitehouse.

call me elitist if you want, but i expect the leader of the nation to be more intelligent and better informed than i am.

the entire house hold where i failed to listen to the debate decided that Obama was the winner. the news the next day didn't shock me.

"The expansive knowledge on foreign policy in McCain's favor was a given."

at yet despite that assumed knowledge, he is so often flat out wrong on the issue.

....if that is his strength, how did he even get into the senate?

seriously, he is a grumpy old creep with a total nutcase for a VP. the fact that anyone would support them just shows that America is one messed up place.

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PaintedBlue
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Icon 1 posted September 28, 2008 15:07      Profile for PaintedBlue   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by TheMoMan:
__________________ de TheMoMan __ PaintedBlue I usually do not reply directly to Noobs as they usually go away and I feel that I may have driven them off.

From your post you appear conservative, do you work for yourself or are you employed?

I myself am retired, I also like to think I am Middle of the Road, many here would disagree on that.

I do not begrudge a business making a profit, it is profit at all costs that bothers me.

Yes I came from a Union shop, but a Union is never voted into a place of business unless management caused the workers to feel threatened, "If a business has a union it is because they earned it". Remember that the workers had to fill out the Dept. of Labor checkoff cards.

And then vote against their boss.

Hello TheMoMan! [Smile]

I consider myself a middle leaning conservative, which from having a look around, may be a "no no" around here.
Nevertheless, I am what I am. [Smile]

I work as a writer for the local paper here in Myrtle Beach, SC and I have a small business doing graphic designs and advertising.
I'm also a paraplegic, disabled by a drunk driver 21 years ago.

My husband is in the vacation rental business, and is FAR more conservative than I am. [Big Grin]

I am pro-life, but agree that there are circumstances where abortion is, unfortunately, the best option, and I want women who are in that situation to have access to quality medical care without being threatened by protesters.

On a couple of the other "hot buttons" -- I'm ok with same sex unions.

Immigration...OY VEY! I want our borders CLOSED.

I don't want to be taxed into the poorhouse.

The war in Iraq...*sigh* we're there now...if we leave without somehow wrapping things up in a package, we'll have hell to pay for it, IMO.

So here I am. [Smile] Well, at least the basics...

and to the person who insinuated I made the remark about "immature/green" concerning Obama...WOW -- seems like you're the one who's looking for a race angle to be angry about. My family is ethnically mixed...I have black cousins, I myself come from a German/Jewish dad and a Southern Belle mom...I am married to a man who is Native American/French.
And I am a disabled woman, so I know about discrimination...please don't "go there" with me.

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The Famous Druid

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Icon 1 posted September 28, 2008 15:15      Profile for The Famous Druid     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by PaintedBlue:
I work as a writer for the local paper here in Myrtle Beach, SC ...

...My husband is in the vacation rental business, and is FAR more conservative than I am. [Big Grin]

Nice to meet you, Mrs Chesty.

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Colonel Panic
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Icon 1 posted September 28, 2008 15:50      Profile for Colonel Panic         Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by The Famous Druid:
quote:
Originally posted by PaintedBlue:
I work as a writer for the local paper here in Myrtle Beach, SC ...

...My husband is in the vacation rental business, and is FAR more conservative than I am. [Big Grin]

Nice to meet you, Mrs Chesty.
Could be Mrs. ASM, too. So far looks like a troll.


CP

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GrumpySteen

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Icon 1 posted September 28, 2008 15:53      Profile for GrumpySteen     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
PaintedBlue wrote:
The war in Iraq...*sigh* we're there now...if we leave without somehow wrapping things up in a package, we'll have hell to pay for it, IMO.

Don't worry about it. Our economy is fucked. Unless some other country decides to loan us another $500 billion to continue waging a futile war, we won't be able to afford to keep our troops over there much longer.

We've spent over $500 billion on a war with no end in sight. The housing fiasco has brought down major banking corporations and thrown our economy into a shambles. We're looking at dumping over $600 billion into the financial institutes that are left just to keep them from completely collapsing and taking the rest of our economy with them.

The fact is, we're past the point where the question of whether it's the right time to withdraw or not matters. We can either form an exit strategy and prepare for reducing/removing troops in a planned fashion or we can wait and see what happens when we leave with no plan in place.

... and on that cheery note, welcome to the forums!

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PaintedBlue
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Icon 1 posted September 28, 2008 16:16      Profile for PaintedBlue   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
I am Mrs. Chesty. [Smile]

Why would someone say I am a troll just because I don't share the seemingly majority viewpoints of the board?

I personally feel it adds a little spice and enlightenment when we discuss our beliefs with people who don't necessarily see things as we do.

If this is a board that announces itself as a "liberal/democrat" board, then I missed that part in the sign up info. If it's there, please point me to it and I will politely leave.

IMO, there is always room for debate, and much more lively when debating with those "across the aisle." [Smile]

Some of my favorite people are liberals whom I would lay down my life for, and they for me.
We are, after all, the same species, even if we come from different political parties. [Wink]


***edited to add -- Colonel Panic, no...LOL...I most certainly was not paid to write that or any message on this or any other message board.
I write light-hearted comedic pieces about being a wife/mom, etc...

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geekygoddess
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Icon 1 posted September 28, 2008 16:49      Profile for geekygoddess     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Painted Blue,
Welcome! While most of us around here lean more to the "liberal" side, it is just fine to voice your opinion as well. Just be prepared to take it. It can get ugly at times. [Eek!]

Myrtle Beach, eh? I lived in Charleston for years, loved it there. I spent many a fun weekends in Myrtle Beach, those were the days...

Again, welcome and make yourself at home:)

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Colonel Panic
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Icon 1 posted September 28, 2008 16:53      Profile for Colonel Panic         Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by PaintedBlue:

Why would someone say I am a troll just because I don't share the seemingly majority viewpoints of the board?

You appear as a troll, not for the reason you suggest.

You get huffy, don't answer questions, and play the indignant Fox news victim game. Troll.

Most geeks introduce themselves before diving into the one forum that has started more flame wars than all other forums combines. Troll.

Mrs. ASM, I say.

Colonel Panic

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Snaggy

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Icon 7 posted September 28, 2008 16:57      Profile for Snaggy   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
welcome PaintedBlue!

Although I don't agree with all of them, I welcome your viewpoints and your reasons for them to these boards. Too often threads are polarized into flame wars, and that goes nowhere. It's only through a rational conversation that we can maybe change minds, or at least see someone else's perspective and not demonize them.

Please ignore the trolls on both ends and have fun. :-)

I watched the debate, and although I disagree with McCain on almost everything, and find him rather creepy at times, I thought by not screwing up *more*, he actually came off pretty good. Especially after the disastrous week he just had.

Obama is still my man though, if I could vote in your election. [thumbsup]

I found it interesting at the end of the debate, when Obama came over genuinely smiling, shook his hand, and said what sounded like "Good job" to McCain. Meanwhile John McCain seemed to cringe.

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TheMoMan
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Icon 1 posted September 28, 2008 17:45      Profile for TheMoMan         Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
__________________ de TheMoMan -- Colonel Panic and myself were sent off to war to do our nations bidding into the jungles of an area known as French Indo China. Later as Vietnam, Laos, Cambodia, and Thialand. I have scraped the body fluids of a buddy off of my arms, I have jumped out of Helocopters to rescue downed pilots, and I made trips home with comrades bodies. So don't try to sell me on the glories of war, I was the medic. I never lost a soul, in the field or at an aid station, and that is one hell of a hard stat to have kept. I do not know what CP looks like but tell me he is in the room, I look every man in the eyes and I will know him.

___I love my nation, I do not trust our government.

___I had a very dumb Co-ed ask me, "how many babies, did you kill". I almost killed my first.

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PaintedBlue
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Icon 1 posted September 28, 2008 17:48      Profile for PaintedBlue   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
I'll be the first to say that McCain was not who I wanted for the Republican party. I wanted Hillary! LOL [Wink]

My friends and I recently discussed, just for fun, whom would we put into the White House if we could choose anyone, dead or alive...I chose Henry Kissinger. [Big Grin]

To be honest, this election has gotten me down more than once. At times I feel we (the country) are so divided by things we should have overcome long ago, and it often makes me feel as though the media and Washington use us as pawns in some egotistical game.

*sigh*

Anyway...scary times, folks, no matter how you look at it. [ohwell]

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PaintedBlue
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Icon 1 posted September 28, 2008 17:51      Profile for PaintedBlue   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by TheMoMan:
__________________ de TheMoMan -- Colonel Panic and myself were sent off to war to do our nations bidding into the jungles of an area known as French Indo China. Later as Vietnam, Laos, Cambodia, and Thialand. I have scraped the body fluids of a buddy off of my arms, I have jumped out of Helocopters to rescue downed pilots, and I made trips home with comrades bodies. So don't try to sell me on the glories of war, I was the medic. I never lost a soul, in the field or at an aid station, and that is one hell of a hard stat to have kept. I do not know what CP looks like but tell me he is in the room, I look every man in the eyes and I will know him.

___I love my nation, I do not trust our government.

___I had a very dumb Co-ed ask me, "how many babies, did you kill". I almost killed my first.

One of my brothers was in VietNam. Came home with 3 purple hearts. USMC...as was my stepdad.

Dad was in the Coast Guard.

I hope and pray my son, 17 years old, never has to see the horrors of war first hand.

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Colonel Panic
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Icon 1 posted September 28, 2008 18:26      Profile for Colonel Panic         Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Poll out of the LA times shows the advantage to Senator Obama in the debate.

http://www.latimes.com/news/politics/la-na-poll29-2008sep29,0,57477.story

Take a look at who the public thought was more presidential. And look very carefully at the low number on the more presidential question. It is very similar to the number of people who think George W. Bush is doing a swell job.

It's interesting how closely this poll reflects statements I made earlier in this thread.

CP

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GrumpySteen

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Icon 1 posted September 28, 2008 19:29      Profile for GrumpySteen     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
PaintedBlue wrote:
it often makes me feel as though the media and Washington use us as pawns in some egotistical game.

Go with that feeling.

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TheMoMan
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Icon 1 posted September 29, 2008 03:09      Profile for TheMoMan         Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
___________________ de TheMoMan __ The last true Conservative to run with the blessing of the GOP was DDE IKE.

____ He warned us about business getting too cozy with government, or government too cozy with business.

____ This country entered this decade with a balanced budget, Where and how did the administration urinate away all that money? The first six years the GOP ran the government.

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Benjamin Franklin,

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shentzu
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Icon 1 posted September 29, 2008 06:07      Profile for shentzu     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by TheMoMan:
___________________ de TheMoMan __ The last true Conservative to run with the blessing of the GOP was DDE IKE.

____ He warned us about business getting too cozy with government, or government too cozy with business.

____ This country entered this decade with a balanced budget, Where and how did the administration urinate away all that money? The first six years the GOP ran the government.

on that note, i nominate "why we fight" as one of the most informative documentaries ever. if you haven't seen it, even if, like me, you know most of it, still worth every second.

where did the balanced budget money go?

we have been in a depression since 2001. every penny of economic growth under this "president" has been an illusion, money shifted from the bank to the books, from future debt to present "growth". you can't claim that your wages have gone up if your paycheck stays the same and you increase spending by putting it all on a credit card. that is exactly what we have done.

and the punch-line? the GOP is the fiscally responsible party! lol!

now, wanna here the one about how they are strong military protector type that deals better with other countries? it is even funnier......

[shake head]

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Callipygous
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Icon 1 posted September 29, 2008 17:53      Profile for Callipygous     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by PaintedBlue:

Also, I was disappointed that Senator Obama did not set a better example for the multitudes of youth that follow his lead in respect to repeatedly calling Senator McCain "John" whereas McCain never once referred to Obama as "Barack."
It's just common respect, especially when dealing with someone who's older and been in "the business" much longer than you.

I think what they said was far more important than how polite or otherwise they were to each other. Nevertheless from the other side here is
the opposite view, for what it's worth.

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