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» The Geek Culture Forums   » News, Reviews, Views!   » Politics/Religion/Current Affairs   » Atheist soldier sues Army for 'unconstitutional' discrimination (Page 2)

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Author Topic: Atheist soldier sues Army for 'unconstitutional' discrimination
tweety
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Icon 1 posted July 14, 2008 12:53      Profile for tweety   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
ASM, here's a scale for you:
ASM = fucktard

Oh, wait, sorry about that. That's an equality. My bad.

Oh, you're sig says you used to program. Maybe you read code better than English. Here's something for you (I'll be using Java, in case you're checking syntax):

String ASM = "ASM65816";

if( ASM.equals("fucktard"))
{
System.out.println("Dude, I was being nice to you.\n" +
"Thought that underlying all your rhetoric\n" + "you might actually have some meaningful points.\n +
"I was wrong. Naive.\n\n" +
"You, you're a shit. End of story.");
}
else
{
ASM = "fucktard";
}

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If I were a good man I'd talk to you more often than I do.
American Fairy Tales
IT, A Philosophy

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The Famous Druid

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Icon 1 posted July 14, 2008 14:32      Profile for The Famous Druid     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Tweety: I didn't think it'd take you long.

Now, if you can put aside those "don't laugh at the retarded kid eating his own poo - it's not polite" lessons your mother taught you, and just bask in the sheer illogical surrealism of it all, you'll find laughing along at ASM's compulsive self-humiliation can be a lot of fun.

--------------------
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tweety
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Icon 1 posted July 14, 2008 15:45      Profile for tweety   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
TFD – I tried. But, there's a reason I'm not a social worker.

Actually, I think it's a little scary to have someone with ASM's apparent mental handicap running loose in society. Think of the harm he could do to people in the flesh. The boards are one thing. In person is completely different. Hopefully, he remains confined to verbal attacks and mild slips into fantasy.

--------------------
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Sxeptomaniac

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Icon 1 posted July 14, 2008 17:15      Profile for Sxeptomaniac   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by The Famous Druid:
The point missed in much of the above discussion is that TFA isn't about "evangelizing" (which would be bad enough) - it's about victimizing a soldier for his (lack of) religious beliefs, which is far worse.

I would argue that if someone is evangelizing people they are in a position of power over, they are victimizing them, by putting them in a position where they can not easily say "no". That's not the whole problem, but I think it's a piece of it.

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Let's pray that the human race never escapes from Earth to spread its iniquity elsewhere. - C. S. Lewis

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DoctorWho

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Icon 1 posted July 14, 2008 18:38      Profile for DoctorWho     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Sxeptomaniac:
I would argue that if someone is evangelizing people they are in a position of power over, they are victimizing them, by putting them in a position where they can not easily say "no". That's not the whole problem, but I think it's a piece of it.

This reminds me of the time when I worked for Radio Shack. One of the managers I had worked for was also big into Amway. Well he was trying to get me and all the other sales reps who worked for him into Amway too. I politely declined and found myself with the worst schedule. Of course there was plausible deniability that he just wrote up the schedules that way but I got the message. Fortunately there was an opening in another store and I got myself transferred. I know it's rather unpleasant when someone in authority tries to push something on you that you don't want.

--------------------
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PapaSmurph
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Icon 1 posted July 14, 2008 19:42      Profile for PapaSmurph   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Well, this is an interesting topic. And it unfortunately seems that I am in the horrible position of defending the US military.

It seems that there are a lot of assumptions. If you look at the entire US military forces, 8000 IS a small number (out of 1 million or so Active, Guard and Reserve). 0.8%. Not a statistically large number.

I agree that evangelizing lower ranking individuals may be a major issue. However, it is not considered a breach of good order and discipline as long as the individuals are not directly in the superiors chain of command. However, most officers in the US military understand that those individuals they outrank may be intimidated by their position, so they are encouraged to leave their religion to off-duty hours.

So now we come to the sticky question: what is off-duty time? The military life is NOT a 9-5 type job. True, most people in the US Chair Force (having been one of them) work an 8 hour day or so. However, when you are deployed to a "forward position", somewhere you may actually be shot at or blown up, what is considered "off-duty"?

Let me also disclose that I am bias, because I am a Christian, and have been most of my adult life. I was not evangelized in the military, nor did I engage in evangelism with anyone in the military.

I would also like to add that most of the fine men and women in the US military are mentally adults and can act that way. If someone says something to me that I don't like, I don't have to listen, or react in a negative way. What I do is my choice. In the US military, you give up some freedoms, and your freedom of speech is limited (for instance, you cannot make inflammatory comments about a superior, including the president or members of congress). However, there is (as far as I know) no restriction on religious speech. Most folks, like I said before, are adults and know when to say things and when to keep their mouths shut.

I think this is just another over reaction by a small group (about 0.8%) of people who can't handle hearing something and react in a rational way.

Consider me will.

Fire at will.

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fs

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Icon 1 posted July 15, 2008 00:59      Profile for fs   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by tweety:
Actually, I think it's a little scary to have someone with ASM's apparent mental handicap running loose in society.

We don't know that he's actually running loose.

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fs

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Icon 1 posted July 15, 2008 01:12      Profile for fs   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by PapaSmurph:
It seems that there are a lot of assumptions. If you look at the entire US military forces, 8000 IS a small number (out of 1 million or so Active, Guard and Reserve). 0.8%. Not a statistically large number.

[...]

I think this is just another over reaction by a small group (about 0.8%) of people who can't handle hearing something and react in a rational way.

You know what they say about statistics...

There are a lot of things at work here.

1. Superiors who are either engaging in or condoning (tacitly or otherwise) evangelism.

2. Denying promotions because of religious belief.

I think that people who share religious beliefs with the majority tend to view it as "no big deal" because it doesn't matter to them, they aren't being discriminated against or having their rights abridged. Before suggesting that eight thousand other people can't handle something in a rational way, maybe it would be worth considering how it would be if the situation were reversed. If your experience involved a work environment where you, as a Christian, were denied a promotion because of your religion, would it still be irrational to complain about it?

--------------------
I'm in ur database, makin' moar recordz.

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ASM65816
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Icon 1 posted July 16, 2008 23:38      Profile for ASM65816   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by tweety:

ASM, here's a scale for you

Why are "you" so fixated on "10" as a maximum? Using that kind of scale is frequently impractical (useless). You don't think so? Try this:

On a 0-to-10 scale, where:
  • 0 = really, really, really Cold ... and
  • 10 = really, really, really Hot -- like the surface of the Sun
 
On the 0-to-10 scale above, what is:
  • the Hottest Temperature in your Hometown?
  • the Coldest Temperature in your Hometown?
  • the Temperature you find Most Comfortable?
 
Second, I already know that "your" (meaning the Leftist Lunatics) "Evil of the Highest Magnitude" (or "10") is going to be something directly attributed to the US. It's a question I don't have to ask, so it's more useful to ask about "lesser" evils.

Since "you" are obsessed with the "0-to-10" scale, I'll restate my question and use a "lesser evil" (rated below "10") as a reference point:
quote:
Restated Question by ASM:

Let's say: 9 (or 8, or 7) = The Massacre of 800,000 in Rwanda (1994)

Where is "Put to death by members of your religion, for interpreting god's word differently or expressing belief in a different religion"?

... and where is "Someone tells you to consider believing in Christianity"?

 

... Adding an Afterthought ....
quote:
... denied a promotion ...
Maybe it would help if you considered why someone might be "denied a promotion" in the civilian world....
 
quote:
July 14, 2008, 19:42
  Most folks, like I said before, are adults and know when to say things and when to keep their mouths shut.

from the article referenced in the first post:
  "I was told because I can't put my personal beliefs aside ... I wouldn't make a good leader"

(The Leftist Lunatics won't be able to figure out the correct reason the fellow below wouldn't get promoted.)

Imagine the following scene:
quote:
Supervisor: Would you like add anything on why you should be promoted?

Employee: Yes, sir! My honesty -- I'm not afraid to say this company is run by fascists, living for no other reason than to suck the blood of the masses, and I promise to do my best for the proletariat in their fight against the oppressive capitalist machine of death.

Editorial Note: Fellow not promoted due to "beliefs."

I bet some people read that (above) and said "THAT is exactly the discrimination I face!!!"
 

quote:
July 12, 2008, 05:42

It's also wrong for peers to be evangelizing, not just superiors. The superior officers should be putting a stop to it.

And if an Atheist "evangelizes" by constantly pushing his beliefs (criticisms) on those who follow some religion, should "someone" put a stop to it?
 
quote:
from the article referenced in the first post:

Hall said his life was threatened by other troops and the military assigned a full-time bodyguard to protect him out of fear for his safety.

#include <sarcasm.h>

That reminds me of a funny story, there's this place called Afghanistan, and if you keep telling them that they worship a false god, and their religion is a tool to control the masses -- they have you put to death. </sarcasm>

So far, it looks like not only Americans would want to kill this guy, the local Muslims would be happy to kill him too (even if he wasn't American). I'd almost bet that if this guy was constantly around Buddhists and Wiccans for more than a month, they'd want to kill him also. (Just a guess.)

--------------------
Once a proud programmer of Apple II's, he now spends his days and nights in cheap dives fraternizing with exotic dancers....

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The Famous Druid

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<laughing - till - my - fingernails - evolve - into - giant - flying - space-turtles - with - x-ray - vision - and - really - cool - hairstyles>

More lies™ from ASM.
He got caught-out clearly specifying a 0 to 10 scale, and now he's trying to weasel out of it, when the evidence is right there in black and white for all to see.

So very very confused.
So very, very funny.

Please ASM, entertain us some more.

Tell us about how Martin Luther Presley and his ninja death-ferrets conquered the Holy Islamic Roman Empire in 1066.

--------------------
If you watch 'The History Of NASA' backwards, it's about a space agency that has no manned spaceflight capability, then does low-orbit flights, then lands on the Moon.

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GrumpySteen

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Icon 1 posted July 17, 2008 05:17      Profile for GrumpySteen     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
ASM65816 wrote:
Using that kind of scale is frequently impractical (useless). You don't think so? Try this:

On a 0-to-10 scale, where:
  • 0 = really, really, really Cold ... and
  • 10 = really, really, really Hot -- like the surface of the Sun
 
On the 0-to-10 scale above, what is:
  • the Hottest Temperature in your Hometown?
  • the Coldest Temperature in your Hometown?
  • the Temperature you find Most Comfortable?


Going with 6000C (the first google response for temperature of the sun's photosphere) and 0C for really really really cold ('cause to me it is being from the south and all)...
  • Hottest temperature in my hometown: .188
  • Coldest temperature in my hometown: .-023
  • Temperature I find most comfortable: .120
  • Highest temperature my stove goes to: .526

Not useless at all. Not even impracticle unless, for some reason, you're scared of decimal places.

This is GEEK culture, after all.

--------------------
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Stereo

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Icon 12 posted July 17, 2008 07:12      Profile for Stereo     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Steen:
Going with 6000C (the first google response for temperature of the sun's photosphere) and 0C for really really really cold ('cause to me it is being from the south and all)...

Nitpicking for the fun of it: you should choose your 0 to be -273.15 C (0 Kelvin: absolute 0). And our Sun isn't the hottest star. Type O stars go up to 30,000 K. This should be your 10. This way, there is good chance you'll never have to express a temperature beyond the set limits of 0 and 10.

Or you could define your 10 as Plank temperature: 1.41679 x 10^32 Kelvins - but somehow I doubt this would make the scale more usefull. After all, if mathematicians can say that i is the square root of -1, I'm sure they can find a way get around a 0 to 10 scale without breaking the rules.

What the heck: just go with the Kelvin scale for temperature, then pretend it's really a 0 to 10 scale but we drop X decimal places for simplicity.

(There is a reason I can't get away from GC: in what other forum do I get to learn fun facts? I had no idea of the existence of Plank temperature, let alone what it is, before I googled for the maximum temperature in the universe. [Big Grin] )

--------------------
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Icon 1 posted July 17, 2008 08:04      Profile for alfrin     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by ASM65816:
quote:
Originally posted by tweety:

ASM, here's a scale for you

Why are "you" so fixated on "10" as a maximum? Using that kind of scale is frequently impractical (useless). You don't think so? Try this:

On a 0-to-10 scale, where:
  • 0 = really, really, really Cold ... and
  • 10 = really, really, really Hot -- like the surface of the Sun
 
On the 0-to-10 scale above, what is:
  • the Hottest Temperature in your Hometown?
  • the Coldest Temperature in your Hometown?
  • the Temperature you find Most Comfortable?
 

Really, the most impractical question to answer with this is, what is the Coldest heat your town is comfortable with your home having?
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GrumpySteen

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Icon 1 posted July 17, 2008 08:35      Profile for GrumpySteen     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Stereo:
You're actually proving my point (and I did have one) quite well [Smile]

The scales we use for temperature are pretty arbitrary. Typically they're made up by picking two handy points that everyone can measure and agree upon. There's no particular reason it has to be absolute zero or the freezing or boiling temperature of water.

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drunkennewfiemidget
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Icon 1 posted July 17, 2008 08:58      Profile for drunkennewfiemidget     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Steen:
Stereo:
You're actually proving my point (and I did have one) quite well [Smile]

The scales we use for temperature are pretty arbitrary. Typically they're made up by picking two handy points that everyone can measure and agree upon. There's no particular reason it has to be absolute zero or the freezing or boiling temperature of water.

All of the metric system is based on water. 0c = water freezes. 100c = water boils. 10cm cubed = 1L of water = 1 kilogram of mass.

edit: more specifically, 10cm cubed = 1L of water @ 4c, and 100c being the boiling point of water at one atmospheric pressure. [Smile]

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GrumpySteen

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Icon 1 posted July 17, 2008 09:04      Profile for GrumpySteen     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Umm... you do realize that I'm familiar with the metric system and that was why I specifically mentioned the freezing and boiling points of water, right?

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Stereo

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Icon 12 posted July 17, 2008 09:32      Profile for Stereo     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
I think we're all just letting our geekiness loose in order to drown the mess this thread has become... I wouldn't mind if it happened more often!

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drunkennewfiemidget
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Icon 1 posted July 17, 2008 11:12      Profile for drunkennewfiemidget     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Stereo:
I think we're all just letting our geekiness loose in order to drown the mess this thread has become... I wouldn't mind if it happened more often!

This. I'm hoping SOMEONE will be like, Cool! I didn't know that! And then join in with some other useless information someone else can use. And we can forget about the toolbox named asm.
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The Famous Druid

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Icon 1 posted July 17, 2008 14:47      Profile for The Famous Druid     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by drunkennewfiemidget:
All of the metric system is based on water. 0c = water freezes. 100c = water boils. 10cm cubed = 1L of water = 1 kilogram of mass.

And 1 metre is ... um ... the distance between 2 bottles of water that are 1 metre apart.

--------------------
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tweety
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Icon 1 posted July 17, 2008 15:11      Profile for tweety   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by The Famous Druid:
quote:
Originally posted by drunkennewfiemidget:
All of the metric system is based on water. 0c = water freezes. 100c = water boils. 10cm cubed = 1L of water = 1 kilogram of mass.

And 1 metre is ... um ... the distance between 2 bottles of water that are 1 metre apart.
And, metre is only spelled m-e-t-r-e in the US when someone wants to look well educated, refined and generally better than everyone else.

Otherwise, it's spelled m-e-t-e-r, just like the All-Mighty Daniel Webster intended. That's right, spell it different from the British to further break the bonds of tyranny. Because, as we all know, changing the spelling of certain words is what finally decided the American Revolution in favor of the colonists.

--------------------
If I were a good man I'd talk to you more often than I do.
American Fairy Tales
IT, A Philosophy

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The Famous Druid

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Icon 1 posted July 17, 2008 15:39      Profile for The Famous Druid     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by tweety:
metre is only spelled m-e-t-r-e in the US when someone wants to look well educated, refined and generally better than everyone else.

We aussies are a very refined bunch o' blokes and blokesses.

*wipes-nose-on-sleeve*

--------------------
If you watch 'The History Of NASA' backwards, it's about a space agency that has no manned spaceflight capability, then does low-orbit flights, then lands on the Moon.

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GrumpySteen

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Icon 10 posted July 17, 2008 20:31      Profile for GrumpySteen     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
It's not our fault that the English language was started by a bunch of dyslexic Brits who couldn't put the letters to make an "er" sound in the right order and gave the world "re" instead.

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The Famous Druid

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Icon 1 posted July 17, 2008 20:42      Profile for The Famous Druid     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by tweety:
changing the spelling of certain words is what finally decided the American Revolution in favor of the colonists.

quote:
Quoth Steen:
It's not our fault that the English language was started by a bunch of dyslexic Brits who couldn't put the letters to make an "er" sound in the right order and gave the world "re" instead.

Ironically, 'metre' is the French spelling.

It was the military intervention of the French that tipped the balance in favour of the rebels, prior to that the terrorist insurgents were getting their arses kicked by the British 'surge'.

Apparently the French had something to do with introducing the metric system, it was their last successful technical innovation.

--------------------
If you watch 'The History Of NASA' backwards, it's about a space agency that has no manned spaceflight capability, then does low-orbit flights, then lands on the Moon.

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GrumpySteen

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Icon 1 posted July 17, 2008 20:59      Profile for GrumpySteen     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
I beg to differ. About two years after coming up with metric (and one ten millionth of the distance from the equator to the north pole? WTF), they developed the guillotine. I think it's safe to say that was a very successful invention.

Cutting edge technology, in it's day!

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Xanthine

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Icon 1 posted July 17, 2008 21:41      Profile for Xanthine     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by The Famous Druid:

Apparently the French had something to do with introducing the metric system, it was their last successful technical innovation.

You sure about that?

I would have thrown in Sabatier but the forum yaks on the link.

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And it's one, two, three / On the wrong side of the lee / What were you meant for? / What were you meant for?
- The Decemberists

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