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Author Topic: Coming home.
The Famous Druid

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Icon 1 posted June 01, 2008 13:24      Profile for The Famous Druid     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Five years and three months ago, our (then) PM promised Australia's involvement in the Iraq war would last for "months, not years".

Well, it took the kind of "regime change" little Johnnie Howard didn't want, but our troops are finally coming home.

--------------------
If you watch 'The History Of NASA' backwards, it's about a space agency that has no manned spaceflight capability, then does low-orbit flights, then lands on the Moon.

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TheMoMan
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Icon 1 posted June 01, 2008 14:37      Profile for TheMoMan         Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
_______________________ TFD Glad to hear that, I am in now way trying to sound like they did not do their job, they did and I am glad that they are Home Ward Bound, God Speed to the fine Men & Women from OZ.

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Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.


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DoctorWho

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Icon 1 posted June 01, 2008 14:43      Profile for DoctorWho     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Good for them. Here's hoping our troops will not be too far behind in doing the same.

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Laughter is like changing a baby's diapers. It doesn't solve anything but it sure improves the situation. Leo F. Buscaglia

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Callipygous
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Icon 1 posted June 01, 2008 16:10      Profile for Callipygous     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
I have opposed the Iraq war consistently and from the start. I believe GWB is the worst US president in my lifetime and probably of all time.

But the likely consequences of a complete withdrawal from Iraq scare me. I don't buy GWB's assertion that this may well lead to another 9/11 sometime in the future. I just cannot join the dots on that one. But the likelihood of Iraq collapsing into civil war and anarchy after a complete withdrawal of foreign troops is strong, and that was parallels the situation that enabled an islamist takeover in Afghanistan a little to close for comfort. As you must know one of the key aims of the islamist movement is to replace the corrupt government of Saudi Arabia, the home of Islam, and next door neighbour of Iraq. Since Saudi Arabia and Iraq have the two largest oil reserves in the world, I don't believe that we could let that happen, and so my greatest fear is that a withdrawal from Iraq may only move the front line to Saudi Arabia, and up the stakes.

I don't like to say this stuff, but all the options as far as Iraq is concerned carry huge risks, and it is hard to know where to lay your bets.

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"Knowledge is Power. France is Bacon" - Milton

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tweety
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Icon 1 posted June 02, 2008 09:44      Profile for tweety   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
I'm glad to hear that the OZ troops are going home. This bodes well, IMO, for the stability and security of Iraq, and hopefully for not just US troops, but for the Iraqis as well.

Personally, I always felt Hussein needed a forceful removal, especially after spending 12 years thumbing his nose at the US, UN, and world in general. On that note, GWB should be forcefully removed from office and jailed on the account of idiocy. He's done more harm by his little invasion than good. Then again, the Middle East's been a huge mess for quite a while, and I'm certain our active military involvement there was inevitable. It would have been best if that active involvement came via truth, honesty and goodwill, not misguided revenge, fear, and propaganda.

TFD – You do know that 5 yrs 3 months is really only 63 months. Kinda like the standard loan period for car payments. So, I suppose your previous PM didn't really lie. The only thing that the troops should be asking is what are their options, color choices, and trims. Oh, and does the vehicle the previous PM purchased for them come as a flex-fuel/hybrid? [evil]

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ASM65816
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Icon 2 posted June 05, 2008 20:45      Profile for ASM65816   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Topic: American Redneck Justice

RE: (story) Thief Steals Bait Car, Hits and Kills Woman (Dallas, Texas)
"...from the time we spotted the vehicle to the time of the accident was 27 seconds."

Originally posted by Colonel Panic:

... the cops in good ol' boy Texas ... They're giving cars away to crooks and letting them
run over little old ladies!

Originally posted by TFD:
CP, you're being unfair to the Dallas cops <snip ... raving lunacy against Bush>

Some people like CP and TFD feel that the criminal is the "good guy," and they blame governments (and people they hate) for "letting" murder and other crimes happen.
 

quote:
June 01, 2008, 16:10
I have opposed the Iraq war consistently and from the start.

June 02, 2008, 09:44
Personally, I always felt Hussein needed a forceful removal, especially after spending 12 years thumbing his nose at ... the UN

The United Nations was on Saddam's side. They were taking Saddam's bribes and giving him "everything" he wanted. When a $130 million Surface-to-Air-Missile system was sent to Iraq listed as "Boiler Parts" on the manifest of a UN Oil for Food shipment, the UN was not a "victim," it was a co-conspirator. When Saddam was paying $25,000 per suicide bombing against Israel, the UN never raised the issue that Saddam might be threatening "world peace" and violating international law.

[shake head]   In the end, much like CP and TFD not blaming Eddie Ramirez (the car thief) for killing a woman in Texas, many will not blame Saddam, or the high-ranking UN officials, or French and Russian violations of sanctions against Iraq (Saddam) for creating a situation that was unacceptable to the US government.

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Once a proud programmer of Apple II's, he now spends his days and nights in cheap dives fraternizing with exotic dancers....

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Richard Wolf VI
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Icon 10 posted June 05, 2008 20:51      Profile for Richard Wolf VI   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Yet another thread ruined by ASM. Are you happy?

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The same old iWanToUseaMac... Who am I fooling? I'm getting a Wii now, iWanToUseaMac isn't :P
Get Opera. The best web experience.
Contest. Group. Success.

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The Famous Druid

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Icon 1 posted June 05, 2008 21:04      Profile for The Famous Druid     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
<laughing - till -my - intestinal - tract - hotwires - the - neighbors - car - and - goes - on - a - hollywood-movie-esq - rampage - across - three - states - pursued - by - hundreds - of - police - cars - and - helicopters>

Those of you whose reading comprehension skills exceed those of the average terrier will notice that I was actually defending the cops in the item ASM quoted, not the car thief, but hey, ASM's (mis)interpretation is much funnier. [Wink]

Please ASM, entertain us some more.

Tell us all about how Jake and Elwood Duke thwarted Saddams plan to deliver WMD's to Boss Hogg, and saved Dirty Harry's sister Daisy from a fate worse than death in the clutches of Mister T.

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If you watch 'The History Of NASA' backwards, it's about a space agency that has no manned spaceflight capability, then does low-orbit flights, then lands on the Moon.

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ASM65816
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Icon 2 posted June 06, 2008 00:16      Profile for ASM65816   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by TFD:
... I was actually defending the cops ...

[shake head]   TFD "defends" others by using lies, delusional rants, and attacks against people he hates.

A reasonable person would have "defended the cops" by observing that Eddie Ramirez (the car thief) killed a woman by his actions and own free will. No one "made him kill."

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Once a proud programmer of Apple II's, he now spends his days and nights in cheap dives fraternizing with exotic dancers....

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The Famous Druid

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Icon 1 posted June 06, 2008 00:24      Profile for The Famous Druid     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
<laughing-till-my-hair-follicles-win-a-smart-but-obnoxious-orangutan-in-a-card-game-and-go-on-an-amusingly-eventful-road-trip>

quote:
Originally posted by ASM65816:
A reasonable person...

This one is beyond parody ASM, pure comedy gold. [Applause] [Applause] [Applause] [Applause] [Applause]

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If you watch 'The History Of NASA' backwards, it's about a space agency that has no manned spaceflight capability, then does low-orbit flights, then lands on the Moon.

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Callipygous
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Icon 1 posted June 06, 2008 04:14      Profile for Callipygous     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Calling planet ASM..... perhaps we can leave the rights and wrongs of the decision to embark on this disastrous adventure to historians. I only mentioned my opposition to the war to give context to my misgivings about the Obama's plan for a complete withdrawal.

If however you want to return, like a dog to its vomit, to your twin obsessions about the wickedness of the UN, which you seem to believe is the world government, and how anyone opposed to the war is de facto an apologist for Saddam, there is little we can do about it.

But we have all heard it all before five gazillion times, and you are probably aware what we all think of your strange fancies.

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"Knowledge is Power. France is Bacon" - Milton

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Michael Findlay
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Icon 1 posted June 07, 2008 03:51      Profile for Michael Findlay   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Cant wait for the UK troops to come back, waste of tax payers money here while that war is still on, the country is stablised as much as it is going to get in my view, be another generation before the extremeist are out of the sytstem.
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ASM65816
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Icon 1 posted June 07, 2008 20:25      Profile for ASM65816   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
First the quick one,
quote:
June 06, 2008, 04:14
your ... obsessions about the wickedness of the UN, which you seem to believe is the world government

I don't believe the UN is "the world government." The United Nations has become the "ultimate" protection agency (not government) and apologist for genocidal tyrants and madmen. With Darfur, the UN finally reached the point where you could rub their collective noses in genocide, and they would say "hmmm ... whatever that is, it's not genocide."
 
quote:
... and how anyone opposed to the war is de facto an apologist for Saddam
Since you're not an "apologist for Saddam," then you won't mind some words in your mouth.
quote:
Mr. Not-a-Saddam-Apologist: When Clinton was president, Saddam was committing atrocities, violating international law, and displaying an extremely evil nature.

When Saddam invaded Kuwait, Saddam was committing atrocities, violating international law, and displaying an extremely evil nature.

Through the decades since Saddam began his rule of Iraq, he has been committing atrocities, violating international law, and displaying an extremely evil nature.

Leftist Lunatic: That doesn't give anyone the right to be mean to him or call him names.

With that said about Saddam, there are basically three kinds of people who object to severe punishments and efforts to stop extremely evil and destructive men (including cases where the evil behavior has gone on for decades):
  1. Anarchist - believes there should be no laws or punishments or social order.
     
  2. Sociopath - applauds and enjoys atrocities, but might complain "it's not fair, I never get to butcher thousands of people."
     
  3. Idiot/Fool - would insist that any human definition or judgment regarding evil is invalid, and the only right thing to do is let "god" stop evil, pass judgment on men, and deliver punishment.
     
The case of Eddie Ramirez killing an elderly woman in Texas shows how common the lunatic response of "Don't-Blame-the-Criminal" has become. FYI: Eddie Ramirez had 12 prior arrests before stealing a car and killing a woman with it.

The "lunatics" make every effort not to blame men like Eddie Ramirez, and the same lunatics make every effort not to blame Saddam and other murdering madmen (like Islamic terrorist groups).
 
quote:
If however you want to return, like a dog to its vomit, to your twin obsessions about ......
[ohwell]   ... and yet you quietly accept obsessive, deranged hatred of "conservatives" and Bush.

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Once a proud programmer of Apple II's, he now spends his days and nights in cheap dives fraternizing with exotic dancers....

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The Famous Druid

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Icon 1 posted June 08, 2008 00:40      Profile for The Famous Druid     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
<laughing-till-my-sinuses-invent-replicator-technology-and-produce-one-hundred-and-forty-four-thousand-dancing-Saddams-to-party - all-night-on-the-lawn-outside - the-window-to-ASM's - room-in-a-damp-corner - of-his-mothers-basement>

Poor ASM, still oblivious to the fact that no-one expressed a word of sympathy for the car thief, still inventing imaginary conversations with a "leftist lunatic" Saddamophile, because no-one here holds the opinions he wants to argue against.
So very, very confused. [shake head]
So very, very funny. [crazy]

Please ASM, entertain us some more.

Tell us all about how Attila the Nun led ten thousand norsemen across the steppes of Ohio to conquer Bombay in 1945.

--------------------
If you watch 'The History Of NASA' backwards, it's about a space agency that has no manned spaceflight capability, then does low-orbit flights, then lands on the Moon.

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drunkennewfiemidget
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Icon 1 posted June 08, 2008 07:55      Profile for drunkennewfiemidget     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Does anyone even read his bullshit anymore?
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Callipygous
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Icon 1 posted June 10, 2008 03:32      Profile for Callipygous     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by drunkennewfiemidget:
Does anyone even read his bullshit anymore?

I find ASM amusing for several reasons:-

First he serves as a reminder of the quite repulsive extreme right wing ideology bordering on outright fascism that for a while were the cheerleaders of the Bush administration. Thankfully (in the UK at least) we all see and hear much less now of Coulter Limbaugh etc, but ASM is here like an embarrassing uncle at a wedding to remind you of how disgusting they are, (and if you ever voted for Bush) to make you feel ashamed. ASM's take on all this, while no more extreme than others has always had that delightful element of unconscious self satire because of his inability to dress his arguments in a respectable suit of clothes, like say Erbo was able to, or indeed base them on anything with a passing resemblance to everyday reality.

Secondly I actually enjoy and quite admire his complete imperviousness to ridicule, insults and anything else anyone throws at him. Still up pops his untroubled idiotic smiling face, and you might notice that though he might insult our opinions, he is personally unfailingly polite and courteous.  -
Separated at birth perhaps?

Then I enjoy his politics because they are just so so nerdy. For a lot of geeks, the attraction of things digital is that unlike the messy complex business of human interaction, whether in politics, at work, or that love and sex stuff, any computer system has finite limits, and any part of it can, with effort, be completely understood, and in this binary world if something is not working in the end it is because somewhere there is a switch that is set to off which should be on, or vice versa. ASM weirdly has taken the reverse journey. He has decided to view the world as a binary system. In his black and white moral universe, almost every human ill has a simple, single cause, that can be set right by flipping the appropriate switch. The good cowboys in the white hats kill the baddies, an boom! (© S Jobs) world peace! There is no such thing as a no win situation in his world. This also explains the way he comes to a quick decision on almost every issue, and is thereafter completely immovable on it. As an example, in another thread recently he announced that after a quick Google he had decided that the cause of the rise in oil price was speculators and only speculators. This is of course a slightly unexpected view from someone who otherwise has an almost total faith in the market as a mechanism for running human affairs, but the important thing is that in true binary fashion it, in ASM's view, is the only cause, and that's that, no more argument or investigation is necessary. ASM himself maintains that he is unusual because he has the intellect and moral courage to look at the world with scientific precision unclouded by sentiment. I would guess that he is probably alone in that assessment.

Lastly I would have to admit that however inaccurate his scattergun arguments are, occasionally they hit the mark, though not often enough to persuade me to read his longer rants. But the really strange and perhaps slightly shameful thing is that I have to admit that I umm... quite like him, and would miss his idiocy should he disappear from the boards.

--------------------
"Knowledge is Power. France is Bacon" - Milton

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The Famous Druid

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Icon 1 posted June 10, 2008 04:37      Profile for The Famous Druid     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
I too find ASM's postings amusing, for reasons I'll expound upon below, but first...

quote:
Originally posted by Callipygous:
...in another thread recently he announced that after a quick Google he had decided that the cause of the rise in oil price was speculators and only speculators.

...the important thing is that in true binary fashion it, in ASM's view, is the only cause, and that's that, no more argument or investigation is necessary.

If you had read all of his rants in that thread, you'd have found that...

a) High oil prices are a good thing, as they'll convince americans to be less wasteful of oil.

b) High oil prices are a bad thing, and them nasty price-fixing arabs are to blame.

c) High oil prices are a good thing, it's ridiculous to sell petrol cheaper than Coca Cola.

d) High oil prices are a bad thing, and them nasty speculators are to blame.

e) The Market is a good thing, because it will encourage americans to be less wasteful of oil.

f) The Market is a bad thing, because it lets them nasty speculators get away with their evil deeds.

Oh, and there was a photo of himself spontaneously combusting, not sure what that signified, but it added to the generally confused ambiance.

(and somehow all of the above was a criticism of Barak Obama [crazy] )

If you want to use a computer analogy for ASM's brain, a quantum computer would be a better match. His mind isn't binary, it's in a nebulous state of quantum superposition, capable of holding several conflicting opinions at the same time. When he types, he's trying to explain a complex mix of 2-to-the-power-of-my-overdraft contradictory ideas at the same time, only small fragments of each make it onto the page, and inevitably the result is an incoherent mess. His occasional 'binary' interludes may be the result of his mother coming down to the basement to call him for dinner, he's been 'observed' and the probability waveform collapses into a single eigenstate, for a while.

Once I'd given up on ever establishing meaningful communication with such a confused individual, I was able to just sit back and enjoy the sheer surrealism of it, it's like being in a room with 144 televisions all tuned to different channels, the closest you'll get to being stoned without breaking the law.

--------------------
If you watch 'The History Of NASA' backwards, it's about a space agency that has no manned spaceflight capability, then does low-orbit flights, then lands on the Moon.

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drunkennewfiemidget
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Icon 1 posted June 10, 2008 05:24      Profile for drunkennewfiemidget     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:

Callipygous
blah blah blah...

quote:

The Famoud Druid
blah blah blah...

So to answer my question, boredom?
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The Famous Druid

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Icon 1 posted June 10, 2008 05:34      Profile for The Famous Druid     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by drunkennewfiemidget:
So to answer my question, boredom?

That, and a generous dose of shadenfreude

--------------------
If you watch 'The History Of NASA' backwards, it's about a space agency that has no manned spaceflight capability, then does low-orbit flights, then lands on the Moon.

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ASM65816
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Icon 1 posted June 11, 2008 20:59      Profile for ASM65816   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
June 10, 2008, 03:32
... any computer system has finite limits, and any part of it can, with effort, be completely understood, and in this binary world if something is not working....

ASM weirdly has taken the reverse journey. He has decided to view the world as a
binary system. In his black and white moral universe ....

When you look at Saddam's behavior and Islamic terrorism, and ask "is this evil?," they're evil and the answers are not "gray." (Note: I don't think you want to be an "apologist" for either one of these.) In "black and white" terms (and even for shades of gray), Saddam and Islamic terrorism are very, very black.
 
 

quote:
Originally posted by TFD:
If you want to use a computer analogy for ASM's brain, a quantum computer would be a better match. His mind isn't binary, it's in a nebulous state of quantum superposition, capable of holding several conflicting opinions at the same time.

TFD is correct that my thought process is not binary (but I think he's intentionally misleading on "the second part").

The world is not a vast collection of independent boolean functions having only one input.

According to TFD's (misleading) statement, it is "contradictory" and "inevitably the result is an incoherent mess" to believe the two following TRUE statements:
  • Fire is good.
  • Fire is not good. (In other words, "fire is bad.")

At the very least (generally speaking), the "functions" which define the world have three inputs:
  • Magnitude
  • Duration
  • Frequency
By "magnitude," a temperature could range from absolute zero to 15.6 million K (or higher). By "duration," sleep might last 30 years (and you might want to call it "coma" instead of "sleep" at that point).
 
 

quote:
Originally posted by TFD:

If you had read all of his rants in that thread, you'd have found that...

a) High oil prices are a good thing, as they'll convince Americans to be less wasteful of oil.

b) High oil prices are a bad thing, and them nasty price-fixing Arabs are to blame.

c) High oil prices are a good thing, it's ridiculous to sell petrol cheaper than Coca Cola.

d) High oil prices are a bad thing, and them nasty speculators are to blame.

e) The Market is a good thing, because it will encourage Americans to be less wasteful of oil.

f) The Market is a bad thing, because it lets them nasty speculators get away with their evil deeds.

First a correction: It's "poorly designed regulations" and lawyers that "lets them nasty speculators get away with their evil deeds."

Beyond that, the statements on markets and prices are generally true (instead of self-contradicting), much like the statements "Fire is a good thing" and "Fire is a bad thing."

TFD is being his typical miscreant self, and misrepresenting the multifaceted and "real-valued" nature of the world -- as if objects with two or more states (good/bad) violate of all laws of science.

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Once a proud programmer of Apple II's, he now spends his days and nights in cheap dives fraternizing with exotic dancers....

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The Famous Druid

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Icon 1 posted June 11, 2008 22:28      Profile for The Famous Druid     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
<laughing-till-my-shinbone-and-my-hand-bone-run-off-to-Argentina-to-join-the-circus>

As Walt Disney said to Napoleon while they built the bridge over the River Kwai, "That's the second-biggest kewpie-doll I ever saw".

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If you watch 'The History Of NASA' backwards, it's about a space agency that has no manned spaceflight capability, then does low-orbit flights, then lands on the Moon.

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GMx

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Icon 1 posted June 12, 2008 01:54      Profile for GMx     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
ASM: see this thread. [Razz]

Even though most Freudian theory is not seen as relevant, I'd put you in the Anal Retentive stage.

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The Famous Druid

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Icon 1 posted June 12, 2008 01:58      Profile for The Famous Druid     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
I'd also be fascinated to see the result of this test, they may have to invent 4 new letters.

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If you watch 'The History Of NASA' backwards, it's about a space agency that has no manned spaceflight capability, then does low-orbit flights, then lands on the Moon.

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GrumpySteen

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Icon 1 posted June 12, 2008 05:56      Profile for GrumpySteen     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
ASM65816 wrote:
According to TFD's (misleading) statement, it is "contradictory" and "inevitably the result is an incoherent mess" to believe the two following TRUE statements:
  • Fire is good.
  • Fire is not good. (In other words, "fire is bad.")


As Bill Clinton once said...
It depends on what the meaning of the word "is" is ...
if "is" means is and never has been, that is not--- that is one thing.
If it means there is none, that was a completely true statement.


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Worst. Celibate. Ever.

Posts: 6364 | From: Tennessee | Registered: Jan 2000  |  IP: Logged
The Famous Druid

Gold Hearted SuperFan!
Member # 1769

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Icon 1 posted June 12, 2008 17:03      Profile for The Famous Druid     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
/me hands Steen a cigar.

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If you watch 'The History Of NASA' backwards, it's about a space agency that has no manned spaceflight capability, then does low-orbit flights, then lands on the Moon.

Posts: 10680 | From: Melbourne, Australia | Registered: Oct 2002  |  IP: Logged


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