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Author Topic: The Sad Truth in America
Colonel Panic
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Icon 1 posted May 13, 2008 19:07      Profile for Colonel Panic         Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/05/12/AR2008051203014.html?nav=hcmodule

The Colonel has often preached to non Americans that racism in this nation is far worse than what racists in this nation are willing to admit.

This article shows the ugly lie hidden behind the candy coating presented by the right wing in the United States.

CP

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TheMoMan
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Icon 1 posted May 14, 2008 03:36      Profile for TheMoMan         Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
________________________ Colonel Panic I wish I could tell you that the news story is bogus, but you know that would be a lie. I worked in a UAW shop for thirty five years, I saw first hand the distrust of any ethnic no matter the color of their skin.

I would have to go out onto the shop floor where production happens and repair a machine, it took years to build the trust that the operator needed before they would tell me what really happened, then I could fix it quickly, and correctly first time.

As a biker I found out about Hartland Mi. (I reccomend that you not go there). I only pulled in to find a pay phone, I will never stop there again. Up near Black Lake I stumbled upon a Mich. Militia camp, again I looking like a WASP still was watched with great distrust as I drove by.

Barracks Life in the USN, I was not prepared for the out and out racism I found in the enlisted sailors.

I really want Obama to win because he has not been in Washington long enough to have become as crooked as most of the rest. But if the pantsuit or the war hero win we will have four more years of failed policies

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Benjamin Franklin,

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DoctorWho

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Icon 1 posted May 14, 2008 14:18      Profile for DoctorWho     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
This country still has a long way to go where racism is concerned. If Obama wins the nomination I plan to vote for him in the election. I am doubtful he will win the election and I am not necessarily sure it's the best thing for him to win in consideration of his safety. The country needs someone like him, but there are enough people out there who are so racist that there are probably many people who will try to assassinate him if he becomes president. It makes me fear for Obama's life should he win.

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TheMoMan
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Icon 1 posted May 14, 2008 16:48      Profile for TheMoMan         Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
______________________- CrawGator Because some of us use Ubuntu, it may be an old gateway but to me its an Ubuntu box. As to the out and out racism in this country, I am ashamed.

In a way if the terrorists had succeeded we would have to start over in Washington, that may have been a good thing.

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Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.


Benjamin Franklin,

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The Famous Druid

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Icon 1 posted May 14, 2008 17:57      Profile for The Famous Druid     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by TheMoMan:
In a way if the terrorists had succeeded we would have to start over in Washington, that may have been a good thing.

And no-one ever heard from TheMoMan again...

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Colonel Panic
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Icon 1 posted May 14, 2008 20:02      Profile for Colonel Panic         Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Yes, I know all about Hartland.

As for the militia camp, was that the one where Tim McVeigh trained before Oklahoma City?

We'll see more racism, like this:

http://www.cnn.com/video/#/video/politics/2008/05/14/bojorquez.obama.tshirt.controversy.wsb

Eventually the "dirty thirty" on the right will find itself no longer tolerated.

Right now the right is revealing itself as one big hate group

I think Obama would make a fine President. I saw Edwards endorse Obama today. I don't see him as another LBJ. Shoot Obama and the right would have hell to pay.

Democrat defeated a Republican this week in Mississippi. Senate and Congress may become overwhelmingly Democrat.

In the end if some kook group tried to kill Obama it would be the end of the NRA, places like Hartland and the militia camp would make Waco look like a Girl Scout wienie roast.

CP

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TheMoMan
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Icon 1 posted May 15, 2008 00:28      Profile for TheMoMan         Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
_____________________ CP I am not sure but I was under the impression that Timmy was at a different one. I have passing knowledge of three, but to find them again I am unsure, I know that there is one between Twinning and Omer down in Arenac County.

I saw that the Dems are trying to win the farmers with a huge farm bill, now that will really help the American consumer. Lets see the dollar is weak so lets add more debt to the US treasury.

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Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.


Benjamin Franklin,

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ASM65816
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Icon 1 posted May 15, 2008 01:21      Profile for ASM65816   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by TheMoMan:
In a way if the terrorists had succeeded we would have to start over in Washington, that may have been a good thing.

Originally posted by CP:
Right now the right is revealing itself as one big hate group.

[shake head]   Who's the "hate group"? You are psychopaths (and hypocrites). "You" think mass-murder "may be a good thing," but you don't see how your behavior could be "hate."
quote:
The Psycho: If a million Americans die from terrorism, that may be a good thing.
    If terrorism in England kills a few thousand British, that may be a good thing.
    Terrorism that kills people at a wedding, that may have been a good thing.

 
 

quote:
Originally posted by CP:

We'll see more racism, like this:
 
 -

[ohwell]   You're really horrified by that? More hypocrisy.... That's nothing compared to some of the graphic hate against "conservatives" and Bush.

Maybe you think an offensive T-shirt is just as bad or worse than smashing windows and vandalizing buildings (see news article at top), but that could certainly explain why you'd think terrorism and mass-murder "may be good."

However, the reason that T-shirt should "scare" you is -- the portrayal of Obama as a simpleton in blissful ignorance.

PS: You might want to avoid argument using the "one-proves-all" fallacy (technically, small numbers to prove a characteristic of "the masses").

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The Famous Druid

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Icon 1 posted May 15, 2008 01:43      Profile for The Famous Druid     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
<fx lighting="heavenly glow"><sfx tune="hallelujah chorus" instrument="harp">


Ladies and gentlemen, a respectful silence please, we are in the presence of a Heavenly Being.

ASM, thank you very much for taking some time out from your important task of dancing on the head of a pin.
Please, give us some Wisdom From On High, tell us all about how Moses crossed the Andes with 10,000 llamas, and defeated the Romans at the Battle of Gettysburg.

</sfx></fx>

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Callipygous
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Icon 1 posted May 15, 2008 03:14      Profile for Callipygous     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Race and class are subjects that are very difficult to talk about, whatever your politics. On the right it is a matter of faith that either the individual's guts ambition and talents overcomes all obstacles, or if he fails society is stronger for that failure. Thus race and class are not particularly important. On the other side there's that politically correct concern as to whether you have any right to either speak for, or criticise, groups you don't belong to.

This is doubly so when it comes to commenting on these problems in other countries. You inevitably end up sounding either smug, ignorant, or hypocritical, or some combination of the three. This reticence may be one of the reasons that we outside the US sound so ignorant CP.

Thus the first instinct of almost everyone, of every political stripe is to ignore these problems until they explode in your face. So I am very grateful that Obama has used his position to make this speech, which as well as being an effective campaign speech, is a very wise and thoughtful political essay on this subject. I don't think ASM, that this speech was written by a simpleton.

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brainisfried
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Icon 1 posted May 15, 2008 05:57      Profile for brainisfried     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Yeah, 'cause Rev. Wright sets such a nice example to follow...

Just about every culture is racist and/or chauvinist to some extent. Very few recognize it as a problem and do anything about it. America did, however imperfectly. The best way to change a culture is to set a good example. The fascist solutions the Left favors such as speech codes, "sensitivity training" and "affirmative action" are merely suppressive measures and are easily subverted to serve political power. The Democrats are very adept at using them to stifle dissent.

Republicans get called Nazis all the time, Bush gets called a "chimp", black conservatives get Oreos thrown at them and get derided as "uncle Toms", our university newspapers get burned, etc, and we're supposed to condemn the entire country because the Second Coming of President Carter is having problems with a few yokels? I don't think so. If America were really that racist Obama wouldn't be yet another obnoxious yuppie, yet alone a credible Presidential candidate.

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Callipygous
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Icon 1 posted May 15, 2008 07:02      Profile for Callipygous     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
brainisfried I love the way the right tries to paint itself as a persecuted minority. They have been running the US (and bullying the rest of the world) for the last 8 years. You have the most right wing media in the world. There is no shortage of outlets for your strange view of the world, with its contempt for facts, logic and reasoned debate. If people don't like you after 8 years of this experiment, do you think it might just be because you are just plain wrong?

Lastly before you go bandying an emotive terms like "fascist" about, why not look up some definitions? Wikipedia for example, admits that a precise definition is hard to arrive at
quote:
but the following elements are usually seen as its integral parts: patriotism, nationalism, statism, militarism, totalitarianism, anti-communism, economic planning (including corporatism and autarky), populism, collectivism, autocracy and anti-liberalism (i.e., opposition to political and economic liberalism).
I hope you'll agree that once you start ticking those boxes, that there isn't a huge gulf between your beliefs and outright fascism, while applying that label to the Democratic Party is rather more troublesome.

Oops sorry I forgot. That last argument involves logic, which you are happily untroubled by.

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ooby
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Icon 1 posted May 15, 2008 07:51      Profile for ooby     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Statistics are on Obamas side to the degree that he will probably not be assassinated. (How often to U.S. Presidents get assassinated?)

It’s ironic that “Uncle Tom” is a derogatory term.

When one says that just about every culture does this or that, I automatically think that the number of cultures that do not do that is statistically insignificant. Since a culture is a group of people who share a set of beliefs and racism is essentially the display of a particular belief, I suggest that there are so many groups of people who share sets of beliefs that do not include racist or chauvinistic one that they cannot be discounted.

I also take issue with the argument that the best way to change a culture is to set a good example. Ethical arguments about the nature of good and bad aside, I’ll assume that best means most efficient. Considering the established definition of culture, there are two ways to change a culture: change the makeup of the group, or change the set of beliefs. If setting a good example is taken to interpret that you are trying to change the belief of members of your culture to match yours, then you are inherently not a member of that culture. It is absurd. It is only possible to do so from outside the culture that you are trying to change. It is possible for a culture to be unchangeable through any example. For instance, a culture that ascribes to reason the authority to make decisions may be entirely unwilling to change its belief as a result of any example. Doing so would also be absurd.

Finally, I propose this topic take a less flamey tone.

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TheMoMan
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Icon 1 posted May 17, 2008 04:54      Profile for TheMoMan         Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
_____________________ Again some one on this forum reads their own slant into what I had posted. I was trying to imply that. 600 hundred people that live and work in Washington, and do not really work for a living with their hands, do not create products, they only push paper to run our country. They do every thing they can to stay where they are, and not get replaced.

The statement throw the bums out, but not our bum applies.

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Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.


Benjamin Franklin,

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ASM65816
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Icon 4 posted May 19, 2008 22:49      Profile for ASM65816   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
May 15, 2008, 03:14
I don't think ASM, that this speech was written by a simpleton.

Thread: Barack Obama's Church
Originally posted by ASM, April 07, 2008, 19:12

Obama's character flaw is that he's a fool   if he couldn't tell that his "spiritual advisor" is filled with deep hatred based on conspiracies and paranoia.

Obama's words: April 29, 2008 - about "Reverend" Wright:

His comments were not only divisive and destructive, but I believe that they end up giving comfort to those who prey on hate ... if Reverend Wright thinks that that's political posturing, as he put it, then he doesn't know me very well. And based on his remarks yesterday, well, I may not know him as well as I thought either.

Putting some blame on Wright, let's call him "two-faced." He's the kind of man that will agree with you, and even give you good advice, but when he's with a different crowd he will say and do things you find despicable (to be what the crowd wants).

I give Obama credit for good oration, but as a judge of character, rose-colored-glasses seemed to get in the way of him seeing Wright as a potential source of serious trouble. Gullibility is more accurate than "simpleton," and gullibility is a trait I associate with Jimmy Carter. FYI: Iran basically treated Carter like a doormat when Americans were taken hostage.

(back to criticizing Obama) Anyone that's been around someone for 20 years should know that person rather well ... especially if the person does a lot of talking. If "Reverend" Wright's "God damn America" remark was so uncharacteristic, the congregation should have gasped in shock with "I can't believe he said that."

However, if you look at Wright again, he didn't hide his contempt for America, so Obama was the "only one" that didn't know Wright was "divisive and destructive ... giving comfort to those who prey on hate" until the media rubbed his nose in it.
 
 
quote:
May 14, 2008, 14:18
There are probably many people who will try to assassinate him if he becomes president. It makes me fear for Obama's life should he win.

May 14, 2008, 20:02
In the end if some kook group tried to kill Obama it would be the end of the NRA

"Some kook" may try to kill Obama. In fact, Obama would be the President most likely to be killed by an Islamic suicide bomber.

By Islamic law, Obama is an Apostate -- and by law should be put to death.

The child of a Muslim man is born Muslim (according to Islamic law), and by "becoming" Christian, Barrack Obama has committed apostasy. Hillary would have an easier time than Obama negotiating with an Islamic theocracy -- she's not under a death-sentence by unfortunate circumstances related to her birth.
(Note: Someone else made this observation ... I'm just plagiarizing.)

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The Famous Druid

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Icon 1 posted May 19, 2008 22:58      Profile for The Famous Druid     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
<laughing-till-my-mitochondria-split-into-rival-religious-factions-and-fight-a-prolonged-holy-war>

ASM, where's your gratitude?

The muslims saved your ass in WWIII.

When Stalin's Panzer brigades had Washington DC surrounded, it was Napoleon and his RCMP (Royal Canadian Mujahadeen Patrol) who sailed up the Mekong River to Sydney, then rode their dolphins across the desert to Washington to break the siege.

Without their help, you seppos would all be speaking Korean now.

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Callipygous
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Icon 1 posted May 20, 2008 04:09      Profile for Callipygous     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
ASM - this obsession with the Rev. Wright completely mystifies me. Obama immediately distanced himself from Wrights more inflammatory statements. Wright is Obama's pastor, not a member of his political team, or indeed a politician. When you go to church, the most important thing is the congregation. They rather than the priest or building are the church. It is not difficult at all to attend a church where you do not share the political views of your pastor. It appears that the most you can accuse him of is not being the kind of politician who only associates with and listens to safe mainstream voices. If this is the worst you can come up with, Obama really must be the Mr Clean he is currently portrayed as. Considering GWB is a former alcoholic with a history of business failures, the scion of an east coast patrician political family who impersonates being a Texan country boy so well he even fools himself, Obama in comparison looks flawless.

Let me give you a hint. You would be better employed criticising his policies, that is where his political judgment really counts, and there is plenty to get your teeth into. The media manufactured brouhaha over Wright is celebrity gossip magazine politics for ignorant people too lazy to think, and too apathetic to care.

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Mr Agreeable
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quote:
Originally posted by ASM65816:
Obama's character flaw is that he's a fool if he couldn't tell...

I agree.

Everyone should be held accountable for the worst things any of their friends have ever said.

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drunkennewfiemidget
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Icon 1 posted May 20, 2008 06:22      Profile for drunkennewfiemidget     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Callipygous:
ASM - this obsession with the Rev. Wright completely mystifies me. Obama immediately distanced himself from Wrights more inflammatory statements. Wright is Obama's pastor, not a member of his political team, or indeed a politician. When you go to church, the most important thing is the congregation. They rather than the priest or building are the church. It is not difficult at all to attend a church where you do not share the political views of your pastor. It appears that the most you can accuse him of is not being the kind of politician who only associates with and listens to safe mainstream voices. If this is the worst you can come up with, Obama really must be the Mr Clean he is currently portrayed as. Considering GWB is a former alcoholic with a history of business failures, the scion of an east coast patrician political family who impersonates being a Texan country boy so well he even fools himself, Obama in comparison looks flawless.

Let me give you a hint. You would be better employed criticising his policies, that is where his political judgment really counts, and there is plenty to get your teeth into. The media manufactured brouhaha over Wright is celebrity gossip magazine politics for ignorant people too lazy to think, and too apathetic to care.

 -
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Xanthine

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Icon 1 posted May 20, 2008 08:57      Profile for Xanthine     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by ASM65816:

By Islamic law, Obama is an Apostate -- and by law should be put to death.

The child of a Muslim man is born Muslim (according to Islamic law), and by "becoming" Christian, Barrack Obama has committed apostasy. Hillary would have an easier time than Obama negotiating with an Islamic theocracy -- she's not under a death-sentence by unfortunate circumstances related to her birth.
(Note: Someone else made this observation ... I'm just plagiarizing.)

Yes, that was from an editorial in the NYT. It kinda set off my bullshit buzzer - as far as I know, the only sect of Islam you are born into is the Druze. The Druze exist almost entirely in Lebanon, with some diaspora communities around the world. You cannot convert in or out. A member of the Luo tribe in Kenya would not be a Druze. Nor would his estranged son.

Here're some rebuttals.

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ASM65816
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Icon 1 posted May 21, 2008 01:38      Profile for ASM65816   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
RE: Obama is an Apostate

May 20, 2008 08:57
Here're some rebuttals (to the effect of "Obama would not be considered an apostate").

Ask yourself these questions about the people that made the rebuttals:
  • Would they execute someone for contradicting their religious views (like the Taliban would)?
     
  • Would they send their children in car bombs to kill members of a different sect of their own faith?
     
  • Would they agree that someone who kills dozens of innocents will be among the most exalted in heaven (as long as someone called it "holy war")?
I'll answer for you: "No" to all of the above.

Radical Islam (terrorists), however, would answer "Yes" to these questions (for all practical purposes), and using Iran as an example, are "crazy" enough to say things like "there was no Holocaust killing millions of Jews."

These rebuttals are irrelevant to the apostasy argument, because these people have almost nothing in common with Islamic extremists (and their sponsors), other than the label "Muslim."

Bottom line: When some "radical" Muslim cleric (or leader of Islamic terrorists), says "it's a religious duty to kill the apostate Obama" -- the radical followers will agree.
 
 
quote:
May 20, 2008 04:09
Let me give you a hint. You would be better employed criticising his policies, that is where his political judgment really counts

Ok, Obama's response to "Gas that's approaching $4 a gallon."
quote:
"This country didn't raise fuel efficiency standards for over 30 years."
[Roll Eyes]   No one forced Americans to buy SUV's. Compact cars (with higher MPG) from Tokyo have been around for decades. "Gas-guzzlers" exist because of decades of $20 per barrel oil.
 
quote:
Obama says: "the government needs to investigate oil company price-gouging"
 
 -

Hold on ... Oil-producing countries raised the price of oil from $20 per barrel to $100 per barrel, but the Arabs aren't the ones "price gouging"? (Mr. Obama, please stop pandering to the oil addicts.)
[Confused]
All that needs to happen for low gas prices is having OPEC agree to sell oil for $20 a barrel. The method of pumping oil out of the ground hasn't changed enough to justify a 400% increase in price.

Of course, the best solution to high gas prices is for the oil-producing countries to sell oil to the US for $50 All-You-Can-Burn-Every-Month (by the country, not the individual). </sarcasm>
 
 
... and now, a Public Service Announcement:
 
 -
 
If you understand economics, you would know that a country where gas costs $8 per gallon will use less (conserve), while a country with $1.05 per gallon gas will consume it at a far greater rate. (I believe Britain has extensive public transportation, but I digress.)

After the oil crisis issues of the 1970s, gas should not have been cheaper than soft drinks in 2 liter bottles (but it was -- in the US).

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TheMoMan
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Icon 1 posted May 21, 2008 04:39      Profile for TheMoMan         Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
_____________________ Until the Fed straightens out the weak dollar, the price of every import good will go up.

1 U.S. dollar / Euro = 0.635930048

However it does help the US domestic products on the world market. Also most of the alaskan oil goes to Japan not to this country. WTF. So all that cheap crap from third world countries will become more expensive or the workers forced to slave harder.

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Benjamin Franklin,

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The Famous Druid

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Icon 1 posted May 21, 2008 05:21      Profile for The Famous Druid     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
<laughing-till-my-epithelial-cells-pack-their-things-and-head-off-to-mecca-for-the-haj>

So very, very confused.
So very very funny.

Please ASM, entertain us some more.

Tell us all about how J Edgar Electrolux defeated the Mormons at Trafalgar in 1066.

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If you watch 'The History Of NASA' backwards, it's about a space agency that has no manned spaceflight capability, then does low-orbit flights, then lands on the Moon.

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TheMoMan
BlabberMouth, a Blabber Odyssey
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Icon 1 posted May 22, 2008 18:19      Profile for TheMoMan         Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
______________________ Again people some here are spreading half truths as gospel. OPEC does not set price at this point only how much is pumped. The price per barrel is set by the buyers Amoco, Shell, Sun, BP. Q-ate. and now the good part the US Government, because road and use taxes are a function of point of sale price the Gov, has no incentive to force the price down. Now lets look at who is buying oil, or futures. Yes people it is traded like Pork Bellies, Spring Wheat, and all other commoditities, the third largest buyers of crude oil are hedge funds, mutual funds and pension funds, they are buying the oil before it is even pumped out of the ground.

Then each time it is moved or changes ownership somebody makes some profit, so blame who ever you want but good old capitalism is to blame.

Back in the eighties some nice fellows that were part of a state regulated utility set up some dummy Corps so that when oil was unloaded from a ship it changed ownership ship six times before being sent to the power company, Yup you guessed correctly the owners were on the board of the power company, that scheme is called a daisy chain.

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Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.


Benjamin Franklin,

Posts: 5836 | From: Just South of the Huron National Forest, in the water shed of the Rifle River | Registered: Sep 2002  |  IP: Logged
ooby
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Icon 1 posted May 23, 2008 08:12      Profile for ooby     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by ASM65816:


quote:
May 14, 2008, 14:18
There are probably many people who will try to assassinate him if he becomes president. It makes me fear for Obama's life should he win.

May 14, 2008, 20:02
In the end if some kook group tried to kill Obama it would be the end of the NRA

"Some kook" may try to kill Obama. In fact, Obama would be the President most likely to be killed by an Islamic suicide bomber.

Are there any Fatwas issued against Obama's life?

Assuming that Obama is an apostate (The jury may still be out on that.), how much greater is the likelihood of being suicide bombed compared to US Presidents who are not apostates?

Otherwise Obama has a 9.52% chance of being assassinated and a 19.0% chance of dying on the job.

Regarding Obama's statement about fuel economy and your about low gas costs, they are both valid. But your response doesn't counter Obama's.

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"haven't you ever wondered if there's more to life than being really, really, rediculously good looking?"

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