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Author Topic: Straight from the horses mouth!!!
geekygoddess
Highlie
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Icon 1 posted April 18, 2008 15:27      Profile for geekygoddess     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Check this out!!!http://www.military.com/news/article/dod-institute-iraq-a-major-debacle.html?ESRC

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"It is better to press ones shirt, than ones luck"- Confucius

Posts: 661 | From: Edinburgh, United Kingdom | Registered: Mar 2008  |  IP: Logged
geekygoddess
Highlie
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Icon 1 posted April 18, 2008 15:28      Profile for geekygoddess     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Yeah, can't copy and paste so much, sorry:(

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"It is better to press ones shirt, than ones luck"- Confucius

Posts: 661 | From: Edinburgh, United Kingdom | Registered: Mar 2008  |  IP: Logged
CommanderShroom
BlabberMouth, a Blabber Odyssey
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Icon 1 posted April 18, 2008 15:44      Profile for CommanderShroom     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Linkety link link link !!!!!!!!!!!11

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Does he know our big secret?
Has one of us confessed?
'Bout the wires circuits and motors
Buried in our chest

Posts: 2465 | From: Utarrrrggggghhh!!!!!!!! | Registered: Mar 2003  |  IP: Logged
geekygoddess
Highlie
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Icon 1 posted April 18, 2008 15:58      Profile for geekygoddess     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Thanks Shroom, I owe ya one!!! [Big Grin]

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"It is better to press ones shirt, than ones luck"- Confucius

Posts: 661 | From: Edinburgh, United Kingdom | Registered: Mar 2008  |  IP: Logged
Colonel Panic
BlabberMouth, the Next Generation
Member # 1200

Icon 1 posted April 18, 2008 20:22      Profile for Colonel Panic         Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Ahhhhhhhhhh ....

$450 Billion?

The liberals would only have spent it on free health care and education for every man woman and child in America ---

And that would have pumped all that money into the American economy.

And sure they would have caught Osama Bin Laden.

And then where would we be?

CP

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Free! Free at last!

Posts: 1809 | From: Glacier Melt, USA | Registered: Mar 2002  |  IP: Logged
ASM65816
SuperBlabberMouth!
Member # 712

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Icon 1 posted April 20, 2008 20:46      Profile for ASM65816   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
April 18, 2008, 15:27
Check this out!!!http://www.military.com/news/article/dod-institute-iraq-a-major-debacle.html?ESRC

The headline is misleading ... it should read:
quote:
Report by Joseph Collins, a former senior Pentagon official, ...
It is not a Department of Defense (DoD) report.

It is an unsolicited report from one man (which formally is NDU INSS Occasional Paper 5, "Choosing War: The Decision to Invade Iraq and Its Aftermath").

First, "McClatchy-Tribune Information Services" uses "DoD Institute" to falsely imply that the report came from higher authorities.

Second, the article is not a summary of the paper, instead it's sound-bite-style selection out of about 50 pages of text.

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Once a proud programmer of Apple II's, he now spends his days and nights in cheap dives fraternizing with exotic dancers....

Posts: 1035 | From: Third rock from sun. | Registered: Mar 2001  |  IP: Logged
The Famous Druid

Gold Hearted SuperFan!
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Icon 1 posted April 21, 2008 19:50      Profile for The Famous Druid     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
<laughing-till-my-teeth-run-off-to-form-a-rock-band-and-win-the-eurovision-song-contest>

So very, very confused.

quote:
The confused one:
It is not a Department of Defense (DoD) report.

Nope, the National Defense University and its think-tank, the Institute for National Strategic Studies have nothing at all to do with the DoD.

quote:
From NDU homepage:
The National Defense University is the premier center for Joint Professional Military Education (JPME) and is under the direction of the Chairman, Joint Chiefs of Staff. The University’s main campus is on Fort McNair in Washington...

...President: Lieutenant General Frances C. Wilson, USMC

quote:
From INSS homepage:
The Institute for National Strategic Studies (INSS) is a policy research and strategic gaming organization within the National Defense University serving the U.S. Department of Defense...

...Established by the Secretary of Defense in 1984...

Nothing to do with the DoD at all at all...

So very, very confused.
So very, very funny.

Please ASM, entertain us some more, tell us all about how Mickey Mouse has nothing at all to do with Disney Corporation.

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If you watch 'The History Of NASA' backwards, it's about a space agency that has no manned spaceflight capability, then does low-orbit flights, then lands on the Moon.

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drunkennewfiemidget
BlabberMouth, a Blabber Odyssey
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Icon 1 posted April 22, 2008 05:59      Profile for drunkennewfiemidget     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by ASM65816:
quote:
April 18, 2008, 15:27
Check this out!!!http://www.military.com/news/article/dod-institute-iraq-a-major-debacle.html?ESRC

The headline is misleading ... it should read:
quote:
Report by Joseph Collins, a former senior Pentagon official, ...
It is not a Department of Defense (DoD) report.

It is an unsolicited report from one man (which formally is NDU INSS Occasional Paper 5, "Choosing War: The Decision to Invade Iraq and Its Aftermath").

First, "McClatchy-Tribune Information Services" uses "DoD Institute" to falsely imply that the report came from higher authorities.

Second, the article is not a summary of the paper, instead it's sound-bite-style selection out of about 50 pages of text.

Go play in traffic.
Posts: 4897 | From: Cambridge, ON, Canada | Registered: Jun 2004  |  IP: Logged
ASM65816
SuperBlabberMouth!
Member # 712

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Icon 1 posted April 22, 2008 21:09      Profile for ASM65816   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by TFD:
Nothing to do with the DoD at all at all...     So very, very confused.

Go find the report, look on page 8 of 60 (PDF file) ... you'll see this:
quote:
Opinions, conclusions, and recommendations expressed or implied within are solely those of the contributors and do not necessarily represent the views of the Defense Department or any other agency of the Federal Government. Cleared for public release; distribution unlimited.
You can say it's from the Defense Department, but that is misleading because it is from a "contributor."

This is better: (from "Small Wars Journal"):
quote:
So we asked the author, Joseph Collins, to provide some context. His reply:

The Miami Herald story ("Pentagon Study: War is a 'Debacle' ") distorts the nature of and intent of my personal research project. It was not an NDU study, nor was it a Pentagon study. Indeed, the implication of the Herald story was that this study was mostly about current events. Such is not the case. It was mainly about the period 2002-04. The story also hypes a number of paragraphs, many of which are quoted out of context. The study does not "lay much of the blame" on Secretary Rumsfeld for problems in the conduct of the war, nor does it say that he "bypassed the Joint Chiefs of Staff." It does not single out "Condoleeza Rice and Stephen Hadley" for criticism.

I'll repeat the key phrase: "distorts the nature of and intent of my personal research project."
 

How about some items that were left out....
quote:
... complex and continuous air operations ... required up to 200 aircraft and 7,500 airmen. In all, 300,000 sorties were flown. In 2002 alone, Iraq attacked coalition aircraft on 500 occasions....
It was clear to the military (and even Clinton) that Saddam intended to wage war, and nothing would discourage him from his corrupt, lawless, and violent ways.
 
quote:
Over the years, Saddam found a way to profit from the sanctions, stockpiling cash and building palaces as his people withered. After the 2003 invasion of Iraq, UN investigators exposed many people (including some foreign government and UN officials) who had taken bribes of one sort or another for cooperating with Saddam.
Although it says "after the invasion ... investigators exposed," the truth is that even in 1998 the US knew there was no tooth fairy giving Saddam Russian made, Radar Guided, Surface-to-Air missiles -- and the list of suspects aiding Saddam was very short.
 
quote:
Saddam’s relationship with terrorists was always a concern. Years later, analysts would argue about whether Saddam had an operational relationship with al Qaeda, but in truth, his relationships with many terrorist groups were active and never in doubt. He was among the most active supporters of Palestinian terrorism. The Mujahideen-e-Khalq, a leftist, anti-Iranian terrorist/military force, was resident in Iraq, conducted operations against Iran, and cooperated with Saddam’s paramilitary and armed forces. Also, Abu Musab al-Zarqawi, who became al Qaeda’s leader in Iraq, was resident for a time in a remote, Kurdish-controlled section of northern Iraq with his group, Ansar al-Islam, before the U.S. invasion. He had visited Baghdad and received medical treatment there.
Key phrases: "In truth, his relationships with many terrorist groups were active and never in doubt. He was among the most active supporters of Palestinian terrorism."

I'll stop there. I'm trying to keep it short.   [ohwell]

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Once a proud programmer of Apple II's, he now spends his days and nights in cheap dives fraternizing with exotic dancers....

Posts: 1035 | From: Third rock from sun. | Registered: Mar 2001  |  IP: Logged
Huicho
Geek-in-Training
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Icon 1 posted April 24, 2008 11:44      Profile for Huicho     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
It aslo said that the report was prepared last fall, presumably with data up to about the middle of last year. Many things have happened since then. The most impressive one is the pacification of the Anbar province. At the begining of 2007 it was a Al-quaida stronghold. In the fall of 2007 it was already subdued. It may be a good report, but it is dated.
Posts: 35 | From: Sierra Vista, AZ | Registered: Apr 2007  |  IP: Logged


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