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Author Topic: Because the starving children deserve it !
Ashitaka

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Icon 1 posted February 07, 2008 05:39      Profile for Ashitaka     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
If you are a far right politician and don't like a bunch of UC Berkley commies trying to push a marine recruiting station out of town, what is the sane thing to do to show your disapproval?

->Discuss with them that you have as much right to recruit soldiers as the have to protest them.

->Stay put despite thier efforts and show them how succesful thier recruiting statio i town is.

->Be civil.

->Be sane.

->Take food away from poor hungry children (by means of a cutting of funding for a federal free lunch program) that have nothing to do with this political battle.

CNN.com


I hope these bastards find out just once, somehow, what it feels like to be hungry, and then be denied food.

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TheMoMan
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Icon 1 posted February 07, 2008 09:10      Profile for TheMoMan         Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
______________________Ashitaka Amen. With the growing chasm between the haves and the have nots, how do the haves look at them selves in the mirror and then go to church and put a pitance in the colection plate and think that makes up for denying Universal Health Care or Food stamps for the poor. What unmitigated Gaul.

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Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.


Benjamin Franklin,

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GrumpySteen

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Icon 1 posted February 07, 2008 10:29      Profile for GrumpySteen     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Erm... maybe I'm missing something. If you're protesting the war, wouldn't you want access to the recruitment center so that you can protest and present your point of view to those who thinking of enlisting? Getting the recruitment center to move would do nothing to stop people from enlisting, but would make it harder for you to protest and present your point of view.

The over-reaction by others is heinous too, of course, but I'm inclined to think that both sides of this particular dispute are made up of idiots who shouldn't be allowed to handle sharp objects, much less hold government positions.

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Sxeptomaniac

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Icon 1 posted February 07, 2008 12:21      Profile for Sxeptomaniac   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Steen:
The over-reaction by others is heinous too, of course, but I'm inclined to think that both sides of this particular dispute are made up of idiots who shouldn't be allowed to handle sharp objects, much less hold government positions.

Agreed. It seems none of the politicians mentioned in the article really thought through what they were doing.

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The Famous Druid

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Icon 1 posted February 07, 2008 12:52      Profile for The Famous Druid     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
The Berkley council's decision was purely symbolic, they simply told the recruiting centre "you're not welcome".

They didn't send cops with attack dogs to remove them from the building.

They didn't barricade the street.

They didn't stop collecting their trash.

The Republicans responded to this symbolic gesture with real, tangible retaliation against hungry kids who had nothing to do with the original decision.

These Republican scumbags are effectively holding little children hostage.

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Callipygous
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Icon 1 posted February 07, 2008 13:55      Profile for Callipygous     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Steen and Sxepto - I really have had enough of this a plague on both their houses bullshit, because that's exactly what it is. If I stick my tongue out at you, and you then punch me unconscious, I would find your excuse that I had asked for it pretty damn thin. That's exactly the situation here, and made all the more serious in that by the implied threat that this represents. These Republicans are attempting to stifle legitimate political debate. If you oppose the war you'd better shut your mouth, or you'll get it. The blame for this lies clearly and almost completely on one side. The only possible excuse for their actions is that it conforms to their rigidly held dogmatic belief that any substantive help for the poor saps their moral fibre.

This is exactly what bothers me about Obama's policy of reaching out to these bastards. If you do that they'll likely bite you hand off. They need to be fought, roundly defeated and despatched to the political wilderness that is their natural home.

I think that as decent human beings, you ought both to be thoroughly ashamed of what you posted.

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GrumpySteen

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Icon 1 posted February 07, 2008 14:36      Profile for GrumpySteen     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Heh... never being one to trust a politician, I did a little digging...

What DeMint claims is being cut:
One earmark provides $243,000 in taxpayer dollars for the organization Chez Panisse to create gourmet organic school lunches in the Berkeley School District. Chez Panisse is dedicated to “environmental harmony” and their menu features “Comté cheese soufflé with mâche salad,” “Meyer lemon éclairs with huckleberry coulis,” and “Chicory salad with creamy anchovy vinaigrette and olive toast.”

What is actually in the bil
Chez Panisse Foundation, Berkeley, CA for the school lunch initiative to integrate lessons
about wellness, sustainability and nutrition into the academic curriculum 243,000


So... to sum up, DeMit is proposing to cut money that would go to nutrition education, but claiming that he's cutting money that would pay for pricey gourmet foods.

Honestly, I would have said I was cutting nutrition education because that would have created less of an uproar.

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GrumpySteen

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Icon 1 posted February 07, 2008 14:45      Profile for GrumpySteen     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Callipygous wrote:
I think that as decent human beings, you ought both to be thoroughly ashamed of what you posted.

Which part am I supposed to be ashamed of? The part where I called the funding cuts heinous? Or the part where I said I didn't understand the point of what Berkeley's politicians did?

... and I still don't see the point. Protesting in front of a recruitment center makes a point. Asking the recruitment center go away where you can't protest is... well, it's the exact opposite of making a point, isn't it?

How is the action of the Berkeley council not idiotic? How is DeMint's action not heinous? Please enlighten me or STFU.

You aren't stupid and you can damned well read exactly what I wrote. Don't go ASM on me and try to reinterpret what I said [Razz]

BTW, DeMint isn't alone... The others just aren't making their involvement known. For the record, the ones behind the attempt to cut funding are Jim DeMint, Saxby Chambliss, Tom Coburn, John Cornyn, James Inhofe, David Vitter, and John Campbell.

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Ashitaka

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Icon 1 posted February 07, 2008 14:47      Profile for Ashitaka     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Steen:
Heh... never being one to trust a politician, I did a little digging...

What DeMint claims is being cut:
One earmark provides $243,000 in taxpayer dollars for the organization Chez Panisse to create gourmet organic school lunches in the Berkeley School District. Chez Panisse is dedicated to “environmental harmony” and their menu features “Comté cheese soufflé with mâche salad,” “Meyer lemon éclairs with huckleberry coulis,” and “Chicory salad with creamy anchovy vinaigrette and olive toast.”

What is actually in the bil
Chez Panisse Foundation, Berkeley, CA for the school lunch initiative to integrate lessons
about wellness, sustainability and nutrition into the academic curriculum 243,000


So... to sum up, DeMit is proposing to cut money that would go to nutrition education, but claiming that he's cutting money that would pay for pricey gourmet foods.

Honestly, I would have said I was cutting nutrition education because that would have created less of an uproar.

OK , I am less mad now.

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-Assif Mandvi

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Callipygous
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Icon 1 posted February 07, 2008 14:56      Profile for Callipygous     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Steen you could always look at the foundation's web site if you were interested. It doesn't look like a trivial business to me, but then I think food is important and not merely fuel. It's about honest food rather than goumet fancy pants food. I don't buy your excuse. This is still naked political blackmail.

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GrumpySteen

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Icon 1 posted February 07, 2008 15:00      Profile for GrumpySteen     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
I have to ask... how does calling DeMint's action heinous equate to excusing his action in your mind?

What the hell is wrong with your English skills?

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Callipygous
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Icon 1 posted February 07, 2008 15:23      Profile for Callipygous     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
OK Steen. I am not distorting your views. Here they are:-

quote:
Originally posted by Steen:
Erm... maybe I'm missing something. If you're protesting the war, wouldn't you want access to the recruitment center so that you can protest and present your point of view to those who thinking of enlisting? Getting the recruitment center to move would do nothing to stop people from enlisting, but would make it harder for you to protest and present your point of view.

The over-reaction by others is heinous too, of course, but I'm inclined to think that both sides of this particular dispute are made up of idiots who shouldn't be allowed to handle sharp objects, much less hold government positions.

OK then, in your first paragraph you give your objection to the symbolic political gesture made by Berkley Council. While I can follow your reasoning I happen to disagree though of course like all gestures, it's ultimately impotent. You then go on to say that the over-reaction was heinous too. This to me means that you think the action of the Berkley council was also "heinous", which in my book is a fairly strong term of moral reproach. Or do you use Bill and Ted speak?

Finally you conclude that both sides are equally incompetent. I characterised this post as "a plague on both your houses", which seems accurate, and your whole post seems to me to argue that the Republican reaction was, if not excusable, at least understandable.

I still think that you are utterly wrong and that your post was shameful. And I don't say that lightly, because I have some personal regard for you.

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The Famous Druid

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Icon 1 posted February 07, 2008 15:44      Profile for The Famous Druid     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
I know I saw it around here somewhere...

Ah yes, here it is.
 -

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Sxeptomaniac

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Icon 1 posted February 07, 2008 16:41      Profile for Sxeptomaniac   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Callipygous:
Steen and Sxepto - I really have had enough of this a plague on both their houses bullshit, because that's exactly what it is.

Calli, you're always welcome to cut out the "they're evil and they're out to get us" paranoid "bullshit." [Big Grin] [devil wand]

The senators' move is as symbolic as the city council's (does anyone honestly thinks the proposal has a snowball's chance in hell of even getting past a committee?), and neither were very effective, creating an angry backlash that could easily have been foreseen in both cases.

This is only tangentially related to political parties, anyway. I have a low regard for city councils in general, so I consider Berkeley city council's lame attempt at protest a typical ego trip. On the other hand, senators are supposedly professionals, so they should be smarter than that (I think some actually are, but these guys were in particularly amateurish form).

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Colonel Panic
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Icon 1 posted February 07, 2008 17:05      Profile for Colonel Panic         Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by The Famous Druid:
These Republican scumbags are effectively holding little children hostage.

Sounds like mild treatment to me. Most of the conservatives I've been tracking wouldn't just hold the kids hostage, they'd take dirty pictures of the kids and try to sell the pics on the internet.

Gotta remember that conservatives elected a child predator, Tom Foley, to head up the committee to prevent child predation. Then they turned around and blamed the kids for the adult's criminal behavior. They voted against Adam's law. They don't believe in gay marriage because it's more fun to pick up sex partners in airports.

Put the values of "values voters" in perspective.

Hang on a bit Druid, we'll see the conservatives blame these kids for being held hostage.

CP

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GrumpySteen

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Icon 1 posted February 07, 2008 17:08      Profile for GrumpySteen     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
I wrote:
Erm... maybe I'm missing something. If you're protesting the war, wouldn't you want access to the recruitment center so that you can protest and present your point of view to those who thinking of enlisting?

and Callipygous wrote
in your first paragraph you give your objection to the symbolic political gesture

No. I said I didn't understand their action because it not only seems pointless, but it makes it harder, if not impossible, for protesters to protest at the recruitment office. This DOES NOT translation into an objection to them protesting.

...and just so you know, nearby businesses were complaining about the protesters, so the Berkeley council tried to get the recruitment office to move and take the protesters with them to solve their problem because they couldn't take away the protesters' freedom of speech. The Berkeley council was not providing a symbolic objection to the war, they were catering to the local businesses who didn't like the protesters by trying to move the protests elsewhere so that people wouldn't have to hear the message of those who actually oppose the war.

I also wrote:
The over-reaction by others is heinous too, of course, but I'm inclined to think that both sides of this particular dispute are made up of idiots

and Callipygous wrote
You then go on to say that the over-reaction was heinous too. This to me means that you think the action of the Berkley council was also "heinous"

No, it means that I think that the senators' (and the one congressman's) action was heinous IN ADDITION to being stupid while the council's action was just stupid. You're trying to take statements in the previous paragraph and ignoring the rest of the sentence in order to try and conjure up a statement of support for something I called heinous. You're doomed to fail, however, because I made no such statement.

Finally you conclude that both sides are equally incompetent.

Well, at least you got that part right. I think both sides have proven that they're not competent to wield the powers granted to them by their offices and should be replaced with people who, I dunno... think through the consequences of their actions and behave in a responsible manner? Crazy, I know, and incredibly unlikely to ever happen, but I can dream. Maybe I'll give up dreaming some day and just hope that we aren't electing meth and crack addicts to positions of power (not that those haven't happened already [Roll Eyes] )

your whole post seems to me to argue that the Republican reaction was, if not excusable, at least understandable.

This is the part where you go off into idiotville with the council and the senators and congressman. NOTHING I wrote implies that I excuse or sympathize in any way with what they did. Calling an action heinous does not mean that you consider that action understandable or excusable. Claiming that it does is disingenuous.

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Callipygous
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Icon 1 posted February 07, 2008 18:31      Profile for Callipygous     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Steen sweetie neither of us is an idiot and I don't deliberately distort arguments a la ASM. I also understand the English Language just as well as you. Also I was not being disingenuous as I still view my interpretation of what you said as much the most obvious, taking the plain meaning of the words you used, and I believe that is how most people would read it. However I also accept that you are not a devious character, and that if you take a contrary view, then I accept that you too are being straightforward and honest and the meaning you intended was as expressed in your last post.

OK? And come and visit me one day in idiotville. I'd love to show you round.

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GrumpySteen

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Icon 1 posted February 07, 2008 18:57      Profile for GrumpySteen     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Callipygous wrote:
And come and visit me one day in idiotville. I'd love to show you round.

See... if you knew my dating history, you'd know that I'm probably qualified to serve as mayor of idiotville. I may not be a good celibate, but I have good reasons for being the worst one [Smile]

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brainisfried
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Icon 1 posted February 08, 2008 05:26      Profile for brainisfried     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
If anyone's curious about the other side of the story:

http://article.nationalreview.com/?q=NGU5NDljOWNhZjc1NDhiYmU3MDJiMjI1ZWNlOWFjYzc=

So Berkeley politicians give the protesters special privileges to facilitate their harassment of the Marines and are shocked, shocked! that the Marines have friends? That not everyone believes "that our men and women in uniform were responsible for 'horrible karma'"?

Also, why does a wealthy city like Berkeley need the federal government to pay for their programs, no matter how benevolent they sound? It amuses me that people who encourage dependence on Big Brother got bit by their shortsightedness. Surely I'm not the only one to see the obvious libertarian argument here?

Do you think those people would be so big and brave harassing a group that could actually hurt them, in the unlikely event they'd be so inclined? What a bunch of cowards.

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Ashitaka

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Icon 1 posted February 08, 2008 05:58      Profile for Ashitaka     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by brainisfried:

Do you think those people would be so big and brave harassing a group that could actually hurt them, in the unlikely event they'd be so inclined?

Yes


Opposing a war does not make one a coward, though, doing wrong to be and maintain the status quo is cowardly

Haven't you seen the war protests with liberal use of pepper spray and rubber bullets?

I think those that go against the majority are the brave ones.

Only dead fish go withthe flow.

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TheMoMan
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Icon 1 posted February 08, 2008 06:12      Profile for TheMoMan         Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
__________________________Only dead fish go with the flow.

That is so good.

As a citizen it is incumbant to ask WHY? Many times may be warranted.

Why?

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Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.


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Colonel Panic
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Icon 1 posted February 08, 2008 18:38      Profile for Colonel Panic         Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by brainisfried:
If anyone's curious about the other side of the story:

http://article.nationalreview.com/?q=NGU5NDljOWNhZjc1NDhiYmU3MDJiMjI1ZWNlOWFjYzc=

So Berkeley politicians give the protesters special privileges to facilitate their harassment of the Marines and are shocked, shocked! that the Marines have friends? That not everyone believes "that our men and women in uniform were responsible for 'horrible karma'"?

Also, why does a wealthy city like Berkeley need the federal government to pay for their programs, no matter how benevolent they sound? It amuses me that people who encourage dependence on Big Brother got bit by their shortsightedness. Surely I'm not the only one to see the obvious libertarian argument here?

Do you think those people would be so big and brave harassing a group that could actually hurt them, in the unlikely event they'd be so inclined? What a bunch of cowards.

I guess you're right, Brain.

After poorly considered and poorly fought wars in Iraq and Afghanistan our Marines -- or is it Mariannes? -- just aren't the tough fighting force that took Guadalcanal anymore. Is that what you're saying?

The Marines can't take a "Code Pink" parking alert anymore? Is that it, sweetcakes?

Hell, it used to be them fellows could actually win a war. I don't see them doing that anymore. And they have that goddamned genius GW Bush leading them. Y'all told us it would be rose petals in Bagdad in a couple of weeks. Must of been those panty-waist Mary-Annes who screwed the pooch, huh?

And now, you're saying the Marines can't stand up to a bunch of flower-toting liberals in Berkley?

Whose side are you on?

The Marines will give toys to tots, but they won't give a starving child a goddamned meal? And that makes sense to you? What unit did you say you were with? The Limbaugh-Hannity-O'ReillyFire-Breathing draft dodgers? Some bunch of jerks who say a guy who spent six years at the Hanoi Hilton ain't tough enough? Those punks?

As for tax subsidies, I think folks in that part of the country are paying a lot more than their fair share of taxes. And to do what?!?! To pay for the largest (neocon/liberatarian-sponsored) growth of government in US history?

What the freak are you smoking at the Timothy McVeigh Compound for anarchy anyway?

There is a reason this country is taking a great big turn to the left -- the right has turned the toughest fighting force in the world into a bunch of goddamned panty waists!

You make no sense at all.

Now come on over here an have a few real men wipe your butt and blow your nose for you, Ms. Prissy Pants.

Better still, quit crapping your pants in a public forum.

Colonel Panic

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brainisfried
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Icon 1 posted February 09, 2008 07:13      Profile for brainisfried     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
If the Marines so much as laid a finger on the protesters they'd be hauled off to court and Code Pink's Democrat enablers would howl about those mean soldiers (they carry guns you know, though perhaps not at the recruiting station) trampling the rights of The People to be screaming lunatics. The protesters know it. THAT'S cowardly, not to mention disrespectful to the Marines who volunteer to keep them safe.

It's bad enough that the protesters keep giving the enemy the idea that if they hold out long enough we'll give up and go home. But harassing Marines who DON'T SET POLICY is retarded.

The protesters are acting like a bunch of dhimmis.

As for taxes, seeings how Berkeley overwhelmingly votes for high federal taxes (that's what Democrats do) I really can't sympathize when reality bites them.

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TheMoMan
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Icon 1 posted February 09, 2008 13:29      Profile for TheMoMan         Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
_________________________ Lets see Democrats are tax and spend. While Republicans appear to be spend, spend and pass the tab on to the next administration to balance the budget. Have I got that right?

Democrats are pinko commie lefties, and Repubicans wear white robes and hoods at night and claim they are at a lawful meeting. Have I got that part right?

Dems would allow a woman to control her own destiny, While Reps would want her to have a child from rape and then exicute him because he grew up in a love less home, Have I got that right?

It is not black and white there is a huge ammount of grey between the two extremes, I would perfer to vote for some one that filled most of my requirements than vote against some one because they do not fufil one requirement.

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Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.


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Icon 1 posted February 09, 2008 14:54      Profile for Mr Agreeable     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by brainisfried:
harassing Marines who DON'T SET POLICY is retarded.

I agree.

And retaliating against hungry school kids is the right thing to do, because they do set policy.

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