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Author Topic: Lakota indians claim independence from the USA

Sir Snaggalot!
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Icon 6 posted December 20, 2007 12:37      Profile for Snaggy   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
A delegation of Lakota leaders delivered a message to the State Department on Monday, announcing they were unilaterally withdrawing from treaties they signed with the federal government of the United States...


Posts: 8117 | From: Canada | Registered: Jan 2000  |  IP: Logged
Mr. Dave
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Icon 11 posted December 20, 2007 14:26      Profile for Mr. Dave     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
This could be interesting. Doesn't the US constitution say that secession is an act of treason?

I'm not normally like this, but then I'm not normally normal.

Posts: 193 | From: Leverkusen Institute of Paleocybernetics | Registered: Jan 2003  |  IP: Logged

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Icon 1 posted December 20, 2007 16:56      Profile for TMBWITW,PB     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Does it entirely count as secession? I always thought Native American reserves were supposed to be autonomous--in theory if not in practice.

As far as the Constitution goes, if that is in there I'm pretty sure it's in an amendment, not the original document. IIRC secession as treason wasn't really decided until the Civil War, but then my high school US history class started in 1895 and went on from there so I could be wrong.

"Beauty is in the eye of the beholder and it may be necessary from time to time to give a stupid or misinformed beholder a black eye."
óMiss Piggy

Posts: 4010 | From: my couch | Registered: Oct 2002  |  IP: Logged

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Icon 1 posted December 21, 2007 02:00      Profile for Ashitaka     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Good on them, hope they don't wind up in Cuba.

"If they're not gonna make a distinction between Muslims and violent extremists, then why should I take the time to distinguish between decent, fearful white people and racists?"

-Assif Mandvi

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Sir Snaggalot!
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Icon 3 posted December 21, 2007 07:44      Profile for Snaggy   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Nice country!


Posts: 8117 | From: Canada | Registered: Jan 2000  |  IP: Logged
Uber Geek
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Icon 1 posted December 21, 2007 09:11      Profile for nerdwithnofriends     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
It's not like they're really doing anything. I read that they won't tax the people of their new nation- not that they'd need to, the US and state governments are just going to keep paying for the maintenance of the infrastructure.

Apparently, Russell Means is quite the inspirational leader. I had a look at his blog, though, and he doesn't really seem to be very well intelligent. His first part about how matriarchy is all sugar and unicorns smacked of either a horrible misconception of the topic, or bald-faced pandering to the other half of his constituents.

The western Montanan in me wants to jokingly say "let them have the eastern part of the state", but in reality we have some pretty significant coal reserves out that way that we would be very unhappy to lose control of.

Has anybody heard whether this move is supported by the Lakota nation? From what I understand, Means has a history of being a bit brash, so I wouldn't be surprised if their elected leaders issued a statement along the lines of "Oh, just ignore him. Yeah, he's charismatic- he's also crazy".

I just can't help but think that this is going to end badly:

Lakota, showing up at some American rancher's doorstep: Good day to you, sir! Your ancestor's historic barbarism in dealing with indigenous people and failure to subsequently integrate them fully into your society has led us to separate from the United States! You now live in Lakota territory, and we require you to register for a new driver's license and passport if you wish to leave and come back.
American: No.
Lakota: Sir, I really must insist, or else demand that you leave our country and quit squatting.
American: Get off my property.
Lakota: Actually, it's not really yours...
American: Go!
Lakota: No

The Lakota dies; before the state or federal governments can react, an angry Lakota lynch mob comes and guns down the rancher. Relations between the two nations are now strained even further than they were in the past, making it easy to justify military action on the part of the US.

So yeah, either this will become a fairly large shitstorm or the bulk of the Lakota people will disown Means for what he really is- a reactionary (or radical?) politician who enjoys rocking the boat.

Either way, it will probably make the US government more willing to renegotiate with the Lakota, to see that their needs are met.

As a side note, the high teenage suicide rate probably has something to do with the hell that is reservation life. I'd probably consider suicide myself if I had to grow up in one of those hellholes. You probably wouldn't understand unless you'd been to one, but the image of poverty and the pervasive atmosphere of hopelessness is a huge downer for the young population. They feel out of touch with their parents' traditions, but don't fully agree with (or have the ability to integrate into) mainstream society.

There were six kids at my highschool who committed suicide for all four years that was there; I think two of them were Indians.

"The Buddha, the Godhead, resides quite as comfortably in the circuits of a digital computer or the gears of a cycle transmission as he does at the top of a mountain or in the petals of a flower." - Robert M. Pirsig

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Single Celled Newbie
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Icon 1 posted December 23, 2007 04:23      Profile for STS     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Two landmark Supreme Court Cases:
For the state secession issue check out Texas v White
For a very interesting perspective on the hierarchy of American law - including treaties, read the decision handed down in
Missouri v Holland

Posts: 1 | From: Utah | Registered: Dec 2007  |  IP: Logged

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