homeGeek CultureWebstoreeCards!Forums!Joy of Tech!AY2K!webcam

The Geek Culture Forums


Post New Topic  New Poll  Post A Reply
my profile | directory login | | search | faq | forum home
  next oldest topic   next newest topic
» The Geek Culture Forums   » News, Reviews, Views!   » Politics/Religion/Current Affairs   » Weather Channel Founder Speaks out (Page 1)

 - UBBFriend: Email this page to someone!  
This topic comprises 2 pages: 1  2 
 
Author Topic: Weather Channel Founder Speaks out
Chesty
Assimilated
Member # 2460

Member Rated:
2
Icon 1 posted November 08, 2007 12:51      Profile for Chesty         Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
It is the greatest scam in history. I am amazed, appalled and highly offended by it. Global Warming; It is a SCAM. Some dastardly scientists with environmental and political motives manipulated long term scientific data to create an allusion of rapid global warming. Other scientists of the same environmental whacko type jumped into the circle to support and broaden the “research” to further enhance the totally slanted, bogus global warming claims. Their friends in government steered huge research grants their way to keep the movement going. Soon they claimed to be a consensus.

Environmental extremists, notable politicians among them, then teamed up with movie, media and other liberal, environmentalist journalists to create this wild “scientific” scenario of the civilization threatening environmental consequences from Global Warming unless we adhere to their radical agenda. Now their ridiculous manipulated science has been accepted as fact and become a cornerstone issue for CNN, CBS, NBC, the Democratic Political Party, the Governor of California, school teachers and, in many cases, well informed but very gullible environmentally conscientious citizens. Only one reporter at ABC has been allowed to counter the Global Warming frenzy with one 15 minute documentary segment.

I do not oppose environmentalism. I do not oppose the political positions of either party. However, Global Warming, i.e. Climate Change, is not about environmentalism or politics. It is not a religion. It is not something you “believe in.” It is science; the science of meteorology. This is my field of life-long expertise. And I am telling you Global Warming is a non-event, a manufactured crisis and a total scam. I say this knowing you probably won’t believe a me, a mere TV weatherman, challenging a Nobel Prize, Academy Award and Emmy Award winning former Vice President of United States. So be it.

I have read dozens of scientific papers. I have talked with numerous scientists. I have studied. I have thought about it. I know I am correct. There is no run away climate change. The impact of humans on climate is not catastrophic. Our planet is not in peril. I am incensed by the incredible media glamour, the politically correct silliness and rude dismissal of counter arguments by the high priest of Global Warming.

In time, a decade or two, the outrageous scam will be obvious. As the temperature rises, polar ice cap melting, coastal flooding and super storm pattern all fail to occur as predicted everyone will come to realize we have been duped. The sky is not falling. And, natural cycles and drifts in climate are as much if not more responsible for any climate changes underway. I strongly believe that the next twenty years are equally as likely to see a cooling trend as they are to see a warming trend.

John Coleman -Founder of TWC

From http://icecap.us
Posts: 416 | From: The Beach | Registered: Nov 2003  |  IP: Logged
Stereo

Solid Nitrozanium SuperFan!
Member # 748

Member Rated:
5
Icon 2 posted November 08, 2007 13:17      Profile for Stereo     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
I know I am correct.
And this is how I know he isn't. Any real scientist should leave a place of doubth, be it only as "the data suggests", "carefull analysis of the data shows that", etc. (That is, if the data is skewed, or if the interpretation used an incorrect model, then the results may change.)

Oh, and by the way, ice-cap melting is already occuring. Was that mentionned in the dozens of articles he read? (Or did he chose them carefully?)

Oh well, better stay a weatherman, Mr. Coleman: forecasting the temperature a week ahead is already a challenge for most meteorologists, forecasting the effects of global warming on local systems should be even worse.

--------------------
Eppur, si muove!

Galileo Galilei

Posts: 2289 | From: Gatineau, Quebec, Canada | Registered: Apr 2001  |  IP: Logged
Ashitaka

SuperFan!
Member # 4924

Member Rated:
4
Icon 1 posted November 08, 2007 13:35      Profile for Ashitaka     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Since when does starting a television network qualify one as a scientist? He is a meteorolgist who has spent most of his life powdering his nose for the cameras. He says he knows this becuase he has read "dozens of scientific papers". This is LOL funny. One assumes they were on the subject of climate change but who knows.

--------------------
"If they're not gonna make a distinction between Muslims and violent extremists, then why should I take the time to distinguish between decent, fearful white people and racists?"

-Assif Mandvi

Posts: 3089 | From: Switzerland | Registered: Feb 2006  |  IP: Logged
Sxeptomaniac

Member # 3698

Member Rated:
4
Icon 1 posted November 08, 2007 13:49      Profile for Sxeptomaniac   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
My first reaction was to check Snopes.com (nothing on it there so far). Misspelling "illusion" in the first paragraph does not bode well, IMO. I get rather suspicious when someone puts out something like this without rigorously proof-reading it first.

--------------------
Let's pray that the human race never escapes from Earth to spread its iniquity elsewhere. - C. S. Lewis

Posts: 1590 | From: Fresno, CA | Registered: Mar 2005  |  IP: Logged
Snaggy

Sir Snaggalot!
Member # 123

Member Rated:
5
Icon 9 posted November 08, 2007 14:12      Profile for Snaggy   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
I don't believe for a second that it's a scam, but even if it is, what is the harm with moving towards a society that creates less waste and cleaner air? Oh right, it harms the military-industrial complex and big corporations... boo hoo.

btw, a good rule of thumb is... when someone says "I know I am correct.", you know that they are absolutely frigging crazy. [crazy]

Would all the Global Warming sceptics kindly move to waterfront homes in Tuvalu and Kiribati?

[Big Grin]

Posts: 8100 | From: Canada | Registered: Jan 2000  |  IP: Logged
Chesty
Assimilated
Member # 2460

Member Rated:
2
Icon 1 posted November 08, 2007 14:17      Profile for Chesty         Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
So I guess founding the Weather Channel means you no nothing of weather. Does being the editor of the magazine New Scientist mean you know nothing of science?

Nigel Calder, former editor of New Scientist, says the orthodoxy must be challenged

Posts: 416 | From: The Beach | Registered: Nov 2003  |  IP: Logged
Chesty
Assimilated
Member # 2460

Member Rated:
2
Icon 1 posted November 08, 2007 14:30      Profile for Chesty         Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
As far as being a scam - Does the fact that Al Gore makes a profit off the company he founded to "offset carbon emissions" make him a credible source for the dangers of carbon dioxide?

Does the fact that he uses private jets to zoom around the planet telling us not to drive cars with internal combustion engines seem the least bit hypocritical?

That's like the guy who comes to "test your water" and just happens to sell water filters; or the mechanic that gives a "free safety inspection" and just happens to find a horrible problem you never noticed that he can solve for $1000.

Come on....

Posts: 416 | From: The Beach | Registered: Nov 2003  |  IP: Logged
Chesty
Assimilated
Member # 2460

Member Rated:
2
Icon 1 posted November 08, 2007 14:33      Profile for Chesty         Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
We should trust scientists like those at NASA because they never make mistakes
Posts: 416 | From: The Beach | Registered: Nov 2003  |  IP: Logged
Stereo

Solid Nitrozanium SuperFan!
Member # 748

Member Rated:
5
Icon 1 posted November 08, 2007 14:42      Profile for Stereo     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Oh, of course, Chesty. And the fact that the gap in the ozone layer has started shrinking just proves that it is a cyclic phenomenon, and has nothing to do to widely banning CFCs... [Razz]

(And what did I say in my first post, about science people leaving place for doubt? Would it be that, maybe, they know that they can make mistakes?)

--------------------
Eppur, si muove!

Galileo Galilei

Posts: 2289 | From: Gatineau, Quebec, Canada | Registered: Apr 2001  |  IP: Logged
Chesty
Assimilated
Member # 2460

Member Rated:
2
Icon 1 posted November 08, 2007 14:44      Profile for Chesty         Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Nor do geoscientists at University of Massachusetts
Posts: 416 | From: The Beach | Registered: Nov 2003  |  IP: Logged
Chesty
Assimilated
Member # 2460

Member Rated:
2
Icon 1 posted November 08, 2007 14:55      Profile for Chesty         Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Will all the people that think civilized countries are ruining the planet please move to some mud hut in Rwanda and not burn anything. Don't use electricity and for the sake of our children don't waste water on a bath or anything.
Posts: 416 | From: The Beach | Registered: Nov 2003  |  IP: Logged
TheMoMan
BlabberMouth, a Blabber Odyssey
Member # 1659

Member Rated:
4
Icon 1 posted November 08, 2007 15:00      Profile for TheMoMan         Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Hi All _____________________________ This one can go on and on, because it may take a Century to know. That said, I and the Misses live on a very windy hilltop. I am starting to experiment with wind mills.

Now comes the fun, State regulations about height blade diameter and such, unless I use small dia. blades I will not be able to put up a machine. I just missed out on buying a used machine in the same township, and could have had it moved here and used the grandfather clause.

The power company is not on my side either as they do not want to buy my excess, however the state says they must. They buy from me at wholesale but sell back to me at retail and they do not have to pay more than credit my account. So in effect they get that power for free.

So if I get a workable system I will change over to electric heat and not make green house gasses with a furnace.

--------------------
Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.


Benjamin Franklin,

Posts: 5836 | From: Just South of the Huron National Forest, in the water shed of the Rifle River | Registered: Sep 2002  |  IP: Logged
Snaggy

Sir Snaggalot!
Member # 123

Member Rated:
5
Icon 6 posted November 08, 2007 15:08      Profile for Snaggy   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
check list:
mud hut: pretty much. Lots of mud around.
no baths: yep.

and at least I'm polite enough to use smilies. [Razz]

Posts: 8100 | From: Canada | Registered: Jan 2000  |  IP: Logged
Serenak

Member # 2950

Member Rated:
4
Icon 1 posted November 08, 2007 15:23      Profile for Serenak     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
I personally hold a high level of scepticism regards all of it... I have discussed it before and I won't go over the ground again.

But I will reiterate one thing - there is no reason NOT to do "green things" like recycle, conserve fuel, attempt to reduce your "carbon footprint", encourage the move towards more use of renewable resources etc. You don't have to believe in "climate change/global warming" to see sense in these things - if only because the non renewable resources are just that... NON renewable - who gave us the licence to use the whole lot in a couple of generations?

--------------------
"So if you want my address - it's No. 1 at the end of the bar, where I sit with the broken angels, clutching at straws and nursing my scars..."

Posts: 1936 | From: Suffolk England | Registered: Sep 2004  |  IP: Logged
HalfVast

Member # 3187

Icon 1 posted November 08, 2007 16:24      Profile for HalfVast     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
≤threadjack≥

Mo Man, have you seen the goings on over in Elkton
(6 miles west of Bad Axe) this summer? Maybe you
should find out how these guys got their permits through.

 -

 -

I belive there are 27 towers. I knew about it from
a railfan site I follow where they tracked the parts
on trains up from Texas. Then I forgot about them
until I stumbled across them on my vacation last week.
I knew the stats but when I saw them in front of me
I was floored.

To bad there wasn't any wind that evening... [Razz]
</threadjack>

Posts: 795 | From: In the mitten around the abductor pollicis brevis. | Registered: Jan 2005  |  IP: Logged
TheMoMan
BlabberMouth, a Blabber Odyssey
Member # 1659

Member Rated:
4
Icon 1 posted November 08, 2007 17:28      Profile for TheMoMan         Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
HalfVast _________________________ I have been following the Progress. The machines are built by John Deere, and there is federal money plus state grants. That usually oils the paper work. At first Detroit Edison claimed that they were not going to rewire the area with big enough conductors for the out going current, until the PSC said well no rate hikes for you untill the area is rewired. Progress Energy and Wolverine power are the big hitters locally.

My problem is I do not have enough acreage for the size wind farm that is needed to get those grants, nor even if my neighbors went together and formed a co-op. I and one other farmer have hilltops the others have lots of woods, good for deer but not wind power.

--------------------
Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.


Benjamin Franklin,

Posts: 5836 | From: Just South of the Huron National Forest, in the water shed of the Rifle River | Registered: Sep 2002  |  IP: Logged
stevenback7
SuperBlabberMouth!
Member # 5114

Member Rated:
4
Icon 1 posted November 08, 2007 17:58      Profile for stevenback7   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
On the topic of Wind power (I will just skip over the global warming because we all know it is happening - and even if everyone is wrong we are at least making our lifes better)

But what I find annoying and I'm seriously considering writing to my local paper is this guy who every week puts in another reason why we shouldn't have wind farms. I live right in south western Ontario and the lakes provide a ton of wind for windmills. It goes from "They cause a disease in the brain" to "no coal plants are going to be shut down because when the wind stops then we need coal to keep the power flowing". Every week I've been able to rebutle his comments with common sense and my dutch knowledge.

It pisses me off when people pull stuff out of their asses - like this weatherman is apparently.

--------------------
Comic Book Guy: There is no emoticon for what i'm feeling.

Posts: 1199 | From: Canada eh? | Registered: May 2006  |  IP: Logged
nerdwithnofriends
Uber Geek
Member # 3773

Icon 1 posted November 08, 2007 19:30      Profile for nerdwithnofriends     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by stevenback7:
On the topic of Wind power (I will just skip over the global warming because we all know it is happening - and even if everyone is wrong we are at least making our lifes better)

But what I find annoying and I'm seriously considering writing to my local paper is this guy who every week puts in another reason why we shouldn't have wind farms. I live right in south western Ontario and the lakes provide a ton of wind for windmills. It goes from "They cause a disease in the brain" to "no coal plants are going to be shut down because when the wind stops then we need coal to keep the power flowing". Every week I've been able to rebutle his comments with common sense and my dutch knowledge.

It pisses me off when people pull stuff out of their asses - like this weatherman is apparently.

I've always been bothered by the anti-wind and anti-nuclear crowds.

I personally favour renewable energy (wind, solar, etc) backed by a nuclear baseload system. Thing is, when you mention nuclear power, people start saying "Oh Noez!!1 T3h Ebil radiationz!". I can understand how an ignorant person would be put off by the idea of nuclear power. Usually they lose their oppositional attitude once they are enlightened to the facts.

The arguments against wind power are just stupid. Here's a list of my favourite arguments against windpower, and their rebuttals:

  • They're ugly!: that's very superficial; anyways, they look better than a coal fired power plant.
  • The wind doesn't blow all the time!: Okay, so build a nuclear baseload plant and set up an energy storage reservoir system (two reservoirs, one higher than the other; fill the top one with water from the bottom, it's just like recharging a battery).
  • Birds fly into them!: Then all the stupid birds will die, and eventually the species will learn/evolve not to fly into the giant rotating pieces of metal.
  • There's not enough distribution capacity!: This is not a fault of wind power, per se. Besides, our existing transmission system is pretty much at capacity, so you're going to see a lot of new heavy lines being built. I know here in montana we're building a HV line (don't know if it's DC or AC; I'm guessing DC, because of the amount of current it will be carrying). So with the added transmission capacity comes added opportunity for generation.

I know that in the US, there's really no reason to be burning coal. Given a good enough distribution system, we could power the entire country using the wind from the Dakotas alone.

I think the least we should be doing is generating our domestic energy from renewables and nuclear, and converting coal into liquid fuels for transportation.

At Most, we'd have all energy provided or converted from an interconnected electrical network of wind, solar, geothermal, nuclear, and hydro. If ITER and DEMO go well, we'll eventually have viable thermonuclear plants to replace the old-school fission ones.


Sorry about the long post; energy policy is something I'm very concerned with.

--------------------
"The Buddha, the Godhead, resides quite as comfortably in the circuits of a digital computer or the gears of a cycle transmission as he does at the top of a mountain or in the petals of a flower." - Robert M. Pirsig

Posts: 948 | Registered: Mar 2005  |  IP: Logged
Metasquares
Highlie
Member # 4441

Member Rated:
5
Icon 1 posted November 08, 2007 19:54      Profile for Metasquares   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
For every person you cite, there are ten more that argue that global warming is real and have the evidence to back it up. There is no such thing as an absolute consensus in science; what is termed "scientific consensus" is just a majority opinion.

But let's forget about all that for a moment. Let's say that global warming doesn't exist for the sake of argument. We're still pumping lots of gases into the air that were not naturally present and it still makes more sense to lower emissions on sheer principle, because that stuff is not what we evolved to breathe.

But enough of that. The opinions you've cited are based on data, and the reliability of data depends on many factors independent of the hypothesis. Can you give me an argument against the existence of global warming based on theory? Some evidence that CO2 cannot cause a greenhouse effect? That hypothesis was formed by Fourier, who specialized in heat flow, has been supported by numerous experiments, and is very well accepted by this time. You cannot discount the possibility of a gas-induced warming effect until you demonstrate that it cannot happen even in theory (or until you demonstrate that the theory is somehow incomplete; misses some sort of other process countering the effect, etc.)

Real scientists read at least hundreds of papers as well (some write that many, though I usually have issues with calling those people "scientists" because that sort of volume usually indicates low-quality research). Dozens is not a particularly impressive number (as if number of papers read was an indication of wisdom to begin with!), and they could easily be chosen specifically because they support his position.

Posts: 664 | From: Morganville, NJ | Registered: Oct 2005  |  IP: Logged
Stibbons
SuperBlabberMouth!
Member # 2515

Member Rated:
5
Icon 1 posted November 09, 2007 04:32      Profile for Stibbons   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Chesty:
So I guess founding the Weather Channel means you no nothing of weather. Does being the editor of the magazine New Scientist mean you know nothing of science?

Weather != Climate. Being editor of New Scientist does not make you a climatologist.

None of those links you pointed to showed even the slightest hint of looking at the long term climate record. If these people did actually look into the Earth's climate as opposed to recent weather then I'm almost certain that they'd be comvinced as to the risks posed by global warming. The problem? Looking at records from ice cores and bits of mud doesn't make sexy, pop science.

Posts: 1141 | From: UK | Registered: Dec 2003  |  IP: Logged
Ashitaka

SuperFan!
Member # 4924

Member Rated:
4
Icon 1 posted November 09, 2007 05:26      Profile for Ashitaka     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by TheMoMan:
HalfVast _________________________ I have been following the Progress. The machines are built by John Deere, and there is federal money plus state grants. That usually oils the paper work. At first Detroit Edison claimed that they were not going to rewire the area with big enough conductors for the out going current, until the PSC said well no rate hikes for you untill the area is rewired. Progress Energy and Wolverine power are the big hitters locally.

My problem is I do not have enough acreage for the size wind farm that is needed to get those grants, nor even if my neighbors went together and formed a co-op. I and one other farmer have hilltops the others have lots of woods, good for deer but not wind power.

Half and Mo_________they have built some of these in southern germany, and of course they are all over northern germany and the netherlands/benelux region. The ones in the north are fine buth the ones in the south, have to run for 20 years before they produce more energy than what was required to make them. I don't know the figures of where you live but usually one has to be pretty close to the ocean for the really big windmills to be profitable in any reasonable amount of time.

The smaller windmills require less energy to make and can be profitable for homes in the midwest.

--------------------
"If they're not gonna make a distinction between Muslims and violent extremists, then why should I take the time to distinguish between decent, fearful white people and racists?"

-Assif Mandvi

Posts: 3089 | From: Switzerland | Registered: Feb 2006  |  IP: Logged
Callipygous
BlabberMouth, a Blabber Odyssey
Member # 2071

Member Rated:
4
Icon 1 posted November 09, 2007 05:36      Profile for Callipygous     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Chesty:
As far as being a scam - Does the fact that Al Gore makes a profit off the company he founded to "offset carbon emissions" make him a credible source for the dangers of carbon dioxide?

Does the fact that he uses private jets to zoom around the planet telling us not to drive cars with internal combustion engines seem the least bit hypocritical?

That's like the guy who comes to "test your water" and just happens to sell water filters; or the mechanic that gives a "free safety inspection" and just happens to find a horrible problem you never noticed that he can solve for $1000.

Come on....

Chesty ad hominem arguments (that right wing favourite) are irrelevant. I don't care what you think of Al Gore, and it has no bearing on the truth or otherwise of what he is saying.

The long and the short of it is that neither you nor I have enough scientific knowledge to comment on whether global warming exists, but I find it bizarre that the right likes to paint the proponents of climate change arguments as being either political opportunists, or believing it as a matter of faith. There are few votes in telling people they should curb their behaviour. It is not a popular message, and there is no left wing ideology that depends on the existence of climate change. Your political "faith" however would find the existence of climate change awkward, because it is not a problem that can be solved purely by the operation of the free market, the underlying motor of which is that human demand is limitless and never satisfied. You might also note that those on the boards here, who do have a deep scientific knowledge, dismiss the counter arguments as pretty absurd. Scientists are on the whole a thoughtful lot, and their discipline is inherently sceptical, so I think I would tend to believe them rather than a bunch of dogmatically right wing businessmen.

--------------------
"Knowledge is Power. France is Bacon" - Milton

Posts: 2922 | From: Brighton - UK | Registered: Mar 2003  |  IP: Logged
TheMoMan
BlabberMouth, a Blabber Odyssey
Member # 1659

Member Rated:
4
Icon 1 posted November 09, 2007 06:15      Profile for TheMoMan         Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Ashitaka _____________________ I have been doing a lot of research on mills. There is an island off of Denmark that exports energy. Rape seed oil (can be used as a Diesel fuel) and electricity from mills. I could run out right now and buy some small units but the payback in dollars would be after they wore out. Being a Machine builder I must construct my own, hopefully with a one or two year payback. We have a nearly constant 10k/h+ wind here so I feel that several small 1/2 kilowatt units should do a lot of help on the electricity bill.

--------------------
Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.


Benjamin Franklin,

Posts: 5836 | From: Just South of the Huron National Forest, in the water shed of the Rifle River | Registered: Sep 2002  |  IP: Logged
DoctorWho

Gold Hearted SuperFan!
Member # 392

Member Rated:
5
Icon 1 posted November 09, 2007 06:35      Profile for DoctorWho     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Don't get me wrong because I am all for being green and recycling. However I had a teacher who had a doctorate in Geology. He said that it's quite possible that our effect on the environment is minimal in the grand scheme of things and what is probably causing the warming trend if there is one is the natural cycle of the Earth's climate changes over time. Of course he said this is only a theory but he considers it more likely than the idea that we were the whole reason that our climate was changing.

--------------------
Laughter is like changing a baby's diapers. It doesn't solve anything but it sure improves the situation. Leo F. Buscaglia

Posts: 1694 | From: The TARDIS | Registered: Apr 2000  |  IP: Logged
Snaggy

Sir Snaggalot!
Member # 123

Member Rated:
5
Icon 3 posted November 09, 2007 08:27      Profile for Snaggy   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
OT:
TheMoMan, thought this was right down your windy alley...
http://www.treehugger.com/files/2007/11/windterras_resi_1.php

Hope it doesn't kill bats though. :bat lover:

Cali... nice [thumbsup]

Posts: 8100 | From: Canada | Registered: Jan 2000  |  IP: Logged


All times are Eastern Time
This topic comprises 2 pages: 1  2 
 
Post New Topic  New Poll  Post A Reply Close Topic    Move Topic    Delete Topic next oldest topic   next newest topic
 - Printer-friendly view of this topic
Hop To:

Contact Us | Geek Culture Home Page

© 2015 Geek Culture

Powered by Infopop Corporation
UBB.classicTM 6.4.0


homeGeek CultureWebstoreeCards!Forums!Joy of Tech!AY2K!webcam