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Author Topic: Racism
Sxeptomaniac

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Icon 1 posted August 22, 2007 10:10      Profile for Sxeptomaniac   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Callipygous:
I quite understand that at present this is a local matter for Louisiana, and though this is legally and constitutionally correct, it's not a very comfortable moral position. As a matter of interest and as a hypothetical question, should these incidents continue or even worsen, at what point does it become a matter that should concern federal institutions and when would it become a matter that outsiders in the US generally should concern themselves with?

Well, it's a tough line to draw. In a lot of ways, I think it mostly depends on how it's brought up. In the case of this thread, Steven could easily have brought up the article in such a way as to not make himself look foolish, but instead tried to pull a patronizing attitude.

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Let's pray that the human race never escapes from Earth to spread its iniquity elsewhere. - C. S. Lewis

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Xanthine

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Icon 1 posted August 22, 2007 11:19      Profile for Xanthine     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Teenage boys who think they know all the answers are known for doing that. The phenomenon continues through college - there are few things more irritatingly arrogant than a male college junior. Eventually, the comeuppance comes. But the propaganda Steve swallowed whole is amusing. I thought that sort of patriotic bull was limited to the US school system, but I guess our neighbors to the north indulge in it as well.

quote:
Originally posted by Callipygous:
I quite understand that at present this is a local matter for Louisiana, and though this is legally and constitutionally correct, it's not a very comfortable moral position.

No, it's not. In fact, the whole situation is depressing and about 40 or 50 years behind the times. Or, at least, it should be. Jim Crow has been legally dead for decades, but his ghost lingers on.

As far as when the Feds step in, that happens when federal laws are violated. If, for example, a state tried to reinstitute a poll tax, then the federal government would get involved because that's against national law (wasn't always, but it is now). As things currently stand in Louisiana, a competent, clever, and driven legal team might be able to work the appeals system and get a smackdown laid on the county in question, and if the appeals go up high enough then the federal courts will get involved. We can only hope.

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And it's one, two, three / On the wrong side of the lee / What were you meant for? / What were you meant for?
- The Decemberists

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GrumpySteen

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Icon 1 posted August 22, 2007 13:28      Profile for GrumpySteen     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
I was going to write something more about this now that I've had a chance to look at the information from many sources (cross checking is always a good idea), but then I stumbled across this blog post, which pretty much says everything that I would have said.

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stevenback7
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Icon 1 posted August 22, 2007 17:06      Profile for stevenback7   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Steen:
stevenback7 wrote:
I'm just disgusted by this article and this is only one out of the thousands of cases of Black racism. I hope all you American citizens on this forum vote for a candidate who pledges to abolish this kind of racism in America.
...
I never included cities in my post

Nope. It was a nice try at backpedaling, but you fail. You said not one word about towns. You said America. The whole country.

Quit making shit up and revising your statements in a pathetic attempt to make your argument valid.

You started out making broad statements bashing the entire United States (as usual) and you got your ass handed to you (as usual), because your arguments are based on unfounded information, heresay and illogical assumptions.

Ummm - okay?

My initial post was talking about America as a whole because racism is mostly everywhere. But my post talking about my town was a sub-part of that initial post. You know kind of like when you write an essay and you state a generalized thesis statement at the beginning and further on you broaden that statement by giving more specific examples to back up your thesis. I'm assuming you know how to write an essay that is.

Oh and how am I making shit up? I shared a news story which is true and I gave my opinion on the story. Even though my opinion of America needing a president which is going to try and fix the problem might not be what you believe is the right thing to do - it is my opinion and not yours.

Oh and people (you know who you are) please shut up about me being a teenage boy and thinking because you are an adult that you know everything. I hate it when I give an opinion people don't even give a proper rebuttal (I donít know maybe they were never taught how to do this) because they apparently believe whatever I say is trash because whatever they think is right.

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nerdwithnofriends
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Icon 1 posted August 22, 2007 17:28      Profile for nerdwithnofriends     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by stevenback7:
quote:
Originally posted by Steen:
stevenback7 wrote:
I'm just disgusted by this article and this is only one out of the thousands of cases of Black racism. I hope all you American citizens on this forum vote for a candidate who pledges to abolish this kind of racism in America.
...
I never included cities in my post

Nope. It was a nice try at backpedaling, but you fail. You said not one word about towns. You said America. The whole country.

Quit making shit up and revising your statements in a pathetic attempt to make your argument valid.

You started out making broad statements bashing the entire United States (as usual) and you got your ass handed to you (as usual), because your arguments are based on unfounded information, heresay and illogical assumptions.

Ummm - okay?

My initial post was talking about America as a whole because racism is mostly everywhere. But my post talking about my town was a sub-part of that initial post. You know kind of like when you write an essay and you state a generalized thesis statement at the beginning and further on you broaden that statement by giving more specific examples to back up your thesis. I'm assuming you know how to write an essay that is.

Oh and how am I making shit up? I shared a news story which is true and I gave my opinion on the story. Even though my opinion of America needing a president which is going to try and fix the problem might not be what you believe is the right thing to do - it is my opinion and not yours.

Oh and people (you know who you are) please shut up about me being a teenage boy and thinking because you are an adult that you know everything. I hate it when I give an opinion people don't even give a proper rebuttal (I donít know maybe they were never taught how to do this) because they apparently believe whatever I say is trash because whatever they think is right.

Your thinking is trash. They do offer rebuttals- one reason why I hate getting in arguments with Steen & Co is because they're so damn good at them. They don't think your opinion is wrong because they are adults; they think it is wrong because you are so sure it's right, and will not accept evidence to the contrary. If you said "Shit, I was wrong, sorry guys", instead of trying to backpedalling and digging yourself a deeper grave, you'd have a higher standing with everybody on this board. Even those on this board who usually endorse idiotic posters simply because they agree with their opinions can't say that you have sound logic.

You have been given multiple chances to redeem your standing on these boards. I suggest you do so.

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"The Buddha, the Godhead, resides quite as comfortably in the circuits of a digital computer or the gears of a cycle transmission as he does at the top of a mountain or in the petals of a flower." - Robert M. Pirsig

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stevenback7
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Icon 1 posted August 22, 2007 18:11      Profile for stevenback7   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Well my opinion isn't wrong. You idiots at the local level haven't done anything to fix this problem and neither has the state by the looks of things so I think this has to become a major federal issue being initiated by the president.

I am open to suggestions on how federal shouldn't be involved. But you clowns apparently don't know how to fix the problem yourself so federal is the only way to go I think. I don't know what laws need to be made or what has to be done in order to tackle this problem (If I knew that I would be a politician) but I do know you have all been given a chance and you have sat there on your high and mighty thrones saying that racism is always going to be there, there is nothing what can be done it is a moral issue. Well you are wrong - sorry you are. We can't wait 50 years to see if people start getting there morals straight because by that time who knows how many more innocent people have been affected maybe even some of them killed.

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Xanthine

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Icon 1 posted August 22, 2007 18:22      Profile for Xanthine     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by stevenback7:
[ Even though my opinion of America needing a president which is going to try and fix the problem might not be what you believe is the right thing to do - it is my opinion and not yours.

Oh and people (you know who you are) please shut up about me being a teenage boy and thinking because you are an adult that you know everything. I hate it when I give an opinion people don't even give a proper rebuttal (I donít know maybe they were never taught how to do this) because they apparently believe whatever I say is trash because whatever they think is right.

First of all, expect an unshared opinion to get attacked. That's the way things are...especially in the section of the forum dedicated to politics. Second of all, not only is your opinion in this case a lousy one, it is uninformed and reflects deep, unmitigated ignorance in how the US operates. In fact, the ignorance in your opinion is so vast it pretty much voids your opinion. Your opinion is beyond bad; it is just plain wrong. But we've covered that. If you want to have opinions about the US, that's fine. But please, please, don't go around trying to declare US domestic policy in a place that has a sizeable sub-population of news and politics junkies, especially when part of that population is USian. Until you've educated yourself, just don't do it. Unless you enjoy getting your throat ripped out.

I don't know jackshit about Canadian or Aussie politics. I'm ever so slightly better informed about the UK because I check the BBC website daily and it shows up. And this is why, when such topics come up, I refrain from posting.

Lastly, you get the rebuttals you deserve. You appear to have chip on your shoulder about the US, and you also appear to have swallowed a lot of Kool-Aid concerning Canada. I also swallowed a lot of Kool-Aid about Canada - I didn't know until you posted it that there were towns in Canada that had banned black people up into the 1980's. I thought Jim Crow never lived in Canada. I thought that was the free land for anyone who wasn't a Native American (First Nations on your side of the border). It saddens me that our neighbor to the north also had the racism disease. It saddens me even more that it took you so long to get it off your books.

None of this excuses you from the lack of deep and reflective thinking in your views. And your cocky adolescent attitude is getting in the way of that. I know that a teenager can think deeply. I have seen it happen. I've even done it. But you have to lay your ego and preconceived notions aside first. And then you have to put in some effort with regards to your position. As I said before, you have a tendency towards laziness, and a tendency towards the cockiness endemic to adolescent boys. I make snarky comments about your age not because I think I know everything (in fact, I know I don't know much at all) but because your age is reflected in your posts. You can rise above it, if you're willing to lay your ego aside and put forth some effort. Until then, nothing's going to change.

ETA: Just read your most recent post. Once again, you utterly fail to grasp how the US works.

1) The situation with the Jena Six is in Louisiana. Not all of us live in Louisiana. I live over a thousand miles away, in a small city with little tolerance for hate. If someone hung nooses from a tree here, the next morning you'd have a bunch of white people and all six of the black people that live here standing around the tree in a circle, holding hands and singing Kumbaya. And then there'd be a community forum to discuss the issue.

I am not making that up.

2) You think the people that elect local officials are different from the people that elect federal officials? How do you think our country is governed, anyways? That we vote in the locals but the federal government arrives on Capitol Hill by Floo Powder?

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And it's one, two, three / On the wrong side of the lee / What were you meant for? / What were you meant for?
- The Decemberists

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garlicguy

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Icon 1 posted August 22, 2007 18:43      Profile for garlicguy   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Steven! Dooooooooooood!

What are you smokin'?

gg

PS - You get sauced yet, eh? (notice the clever Canadian lingo usage...)

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I don't know what I was thinking... it seemed like a good idea at the time.

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garlicguy

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Icon 1 posted August 22, 2007 18:56      Profile for garlicguy   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Callipygous:
So voting for a politician that says he is going to do something about it is not a pointless act.

(Dang it! I tried so hard to stay out of this thing, but re-reading the entire thread caused me to focus on this one comment of Calli's above.)

And that's where you're wrong, those who are not part of the US electoral process. ALL the candidates claim they're going to do what is right and fix what is wrong. Forget the political party affiliations and labels for just a minute. They pretty much all say whatever they think their constituency wants to hear them say, in order to win the election.

Once elected (or re-elected) they do whatever their damned elitist little brains wish to do.

Our Gummymint is no longer accountable to the voters because we don't hold them accountable.

Fixing this underlying problem is not any kind of quick fix. It didn't come upon us overnight and it won't be fixed in the twinkling of an eye, no matter which candidate promises otherwise.

When common, ordinary citizens of the USA decide enough is enough, and decide to take back the government of, by and for the people - THEN - and only then will things really change for the better.

Until then, we will have more and more mudslinging and disabling rhetoric from elected and campaigning officials who are so far removed from the reality of the citizenry in this country that their only experience of real life here is taken from the NEWs. Scary thought as to who is really putting forth their agendas.

FWIW

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I don't know what I was thinking... it seemed like a good idea at the time.

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Sxeptomaniac

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Icon 1 posted August 22, 2007 19:00      Profile for Sxeptomaniac   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by stevenback7:
Well my opinion isn't wrong. You idiots at the local level haven't done anything to fix this problem and neither has the state by the looks of things so I think this has to become a major federal issue being initiated by the president.

I am open to suggestions on how federal shouldn't be involved. But you clowns apparently don't know how to fix the problem yourself so federal is the only way to go I think. I don't know what laws need to be made or what has to be done in order to tackle this problem (If I knew that I would be a politician) but I do know you have all been given a chance and you have sat there on your high and mighty thrones saying that racism is always going to be there, there is nothing what can be done it is a moral issue. Well you are wrong - sorry you are. We can't wait 50 years to see if people start getting there morals straight because by that time who knows how many more innocent people have been affected maybe even some of them killed.

I see you once again have opted to demonstrate your arrogance, ignorance, poor logic, and abysmal reading comprehension. If you don't want to be discounted as an idiot teenager, then don't act like one.

Interesting that you comment about waiting 50 years to see what happens... how about looking back and considering where we were 50 years ago? For starters: segregation, no voting rights for blacks in much of the south, lynchings done openly, and the list goes on. We've come a long way in a very short period of time, and we aren't done yet. It seems you're not only ignorant of our political system, but our history as well.

You don't know what you're talking about, pure and simple. You are cutting off opportunities to learn by stubbornly clinging to your assumptions.

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Let's pray that the human race never escapes from Earth to spread its iniquity elsewhere. - C. S. Lewis

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stevenback7
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Icon 1 posted August 22, 2007 19:04      Profile for stevenback7   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
GG: Yeah I got the sauce Monday (Sorry I was going to give you a notice that I got it). Sadly someone decided to throw it around a bit and the lid came loose. There was no real mess in the box and most of it was still in the jar but my mom put it down the drain anyway. Oh well the house smelled like sauce all day. So thank you for that.

Xanthine: Yeah I know this kind of stuff doesnít happen everywhere in America. I never said it did? Did I? But none the less it is still happening in some places and something needs to be done. Yes the people who elect the local officials are the same as who elect the federal. But with one difference the voting population of Jena isnít the only American citizens who vote to elect the federal officials to office. So you and every other voting American citizen can vote for someone who isn't going to stand for this kind of racism. And I'm hoping you out number the people who think that racism is acceptable or that it isn't an issue.

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Comic Book Guy: There is no emoticon for what i'm feeling.

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stevenback7
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Icon 1 posted August 22, 2007 19:13      Profile for stevenback7   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Sxeptomaniac: Well what do you propose America does with the next 50 years then? You brought a good point to the table - you have my attention now convince me that you are right.

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Comic Book Guy: There is no emoticon for what i'm feeling.

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Xanthine

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Icon 1 posted August 22, 2007 19:25      Profile for Xanthine     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by stevenback7:

Xanthine: Yeah I know this kind of stuff doesnít happen everywhere in America. I never said it did? Did I?

Your words, bub:
quote:
I am open to suggestions on how federal shouldn't be involved. But you clowns apparently don't know how to fix the problem yourself so federal is the only way to go I think.
Blanket statements, ignorance, etc. It's all there. Are you as bad at reading your own writing as you are at reading everyone else's?

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And it's one, two, three / On the wrong side of the lee / What were you meant for? / What were you meant for?
- The Decemberists

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business attire
Highlie
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Icon 1 posted August 22, 2007 19:27      Profile for business attire     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Okay, dude, lets take your advice.

We're going to vote for a president that hates racism. Hell, lets vote for big ole black Obama (actually, I love Obama, but that isn't the point.)

Okay, America has its first black president...


How is Obama going to keep racist people from thinking "That fscking n****r, he has no right to be president."

How do you propose that the federal government changes the thoughts of the public? Brainwashing and mind control? Seriously. SERIOUSLY. If you have a way for the federal government to stop racism, TELL US.

The federal government can't change minds about racism any more than we can change your mind about thinking you're right.

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stevenback7
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Icon 1 posted August 22, 2007 20:14      Profile for stevenback7   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
BA: Like I said before if I knew the exact solution then I would be a politician. But I do know that the local official's in certain areas and most state's haven't done anything or if they have it hasn't been enough to stop the problem. No, the next president of America isn't going to go around America and convince every citizen that racism is wrong and not to participate in it. But he/ she can make it an issue for the country. And once it becomes a topic of interest you will start to see tons of media covering racism, protests, states introducing new laws, towns/ cities doing there own things to stop the racism, and many other things. But only someone like the president can make it a national issue.

Xanthine: ummm most times I can see where you are trying to go with your posts because usually you just try and insult me and stray away from the topic and avoid any sort of real rebuttal. This last post I even don't know what you meant -I see some criticism but did you have a point?

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Xanthine

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Icon 1 posted August 22, 2007 20:37      Profile for Xanthine     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
My point in this whole thread has been there are no laws that can be passed to counter the ghost of old Jim Crow. It's hearts and minds that have to change, and you can't force that with legislation. That's all. I offer no rebuttal with regards to that view because so far you've made no point to rebut.

With regards to you, well, I'm not sure how I can be clearer. I've spelled out your problems time and time again. I've even thrown your own words back at you and you still don't get it. So I suggest you try out an old truism of my dad's, adapted slightly: "Make sure brain is engaged before putting fingers in gear."

You are lazy. You are arrogant. You will have to lose both if you want to be perceived as smart.

You post without thinking. You do not think about what you read. You do not think about what you write. You address us all as clowns, and then wonder why I explain to you that not all Americans and not all parts of America are racist. You demand that since we're all clowns we get our national government involved because we can't elect competent local officials, as if our national government somehow springs from a different source. It doesn't. It's just bigger and broader so the idiots the racists elect are diluted by the idiots the non-racists elect. If you want to know what it takes to get the feds involved in local issues, read up on the Civil Rights Movement.

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And it's one, two, three / On the wrong side of the lee / What were you meant for? / What were you meant for?
- The Decemberists

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stevenback7
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Icon 1 posted August 22, 2007 21:23      Profile for stevenback7   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Xanthine:
My point in this whole thread has been there are no laws that can be passed to counter the ghost of old Jim Crow. It's hearts and minds that have to change, and you can't force that with legislation. That's all. I offer no rebuttal with regards to that view because so far you've made no point to rebut.

With regards to you, well, I'm not sure how I can be clearer. I've spelled out your problems time and time again. I've even thrown your own words back at you and you still don't get it. So I suggest you try out an old truism of my dad's, adapted slightly: "Make sure brain is engaged before putting fingers in gear."

You are lazy. You are arrogant. You will have to lose both if you want to be perceived as smart.

You post without thinking. You do not think about what you read. You do not think about what you write. You address us all as clowns, and then wonder why I explain to you that not all Americans and not all parts of America are racist. You demand that since we're all clowns we get our national government involved because we can't elect competent local officials, as if our national government somehow springs from a different source. It doesn't. It's just bigger and broader so the idiots the racists elect are diluted by the idiots the non-racists elect. If you want to know what it takes to get the feds involved in local issues, read up on the Civil Rights Movement.

Well I will rebuttal with the fact that I have said clearly that I don't believe all parts of America are racist - just certain area. I presume then that since you weren't able to comprehend that I don't think all of America was racist out of my earlier posts that you also didn't understand me using the term "clowns" was showing my frustration with the way some people think on this forum without spelling it out for you. And well yes there will be some more racist politicians and there will be a diluting affect you hope by having a non-racist president who wants to stop the problem that he will change the view points of his fellow politicians as that would be one of the first steps to stop racism.

*Yes I know run on sentences and not very great structure but itís just a little past 12 here and Iím half naked and half falling asleep.

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Comic Book Guy: There is no emoticon for what i'm feeling.

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CommanderShroom
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Icon 1 posted August 23, 2007 08:17      Profile for CommanderShroom     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
I am trying to disagree with you nicely. But here it is.

The U.S. is built with certain levels of autonomy at the state level. It was designed that way. We like it that way. It keeps each branch of government from becoming too powerful.

There comes points in time that the federal government steps in. But the case you are citing, is not yet at the point where a president can even consider national referendum. Plain and simple.

The very things you are saying at the last post, are the very things we have been doing. Is there more to do? Absolutely. Are your arguments on this subject worth a shit? Not at all.

You have made gross generalizations throughout this entire thread. And when your arguments have been beaten down, you backpedal, call everyone else names for not understanding you, and make brand new generalizations. I commend you for being concerned about things such as racism, but I am frankly annoyed at how little you understand, or even attempt to learn, about the very place you seek to criticize.

This particular community has educated people (excepting myself) that try to have intelligent discourse (usually) and make the attempt to bring something to the table other than finger pointing and criticism.

And hubris is a terrible thing to let slip out, much like plumbers crack.

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Does he know our big secret?
Has one of us confessed?
'Bout the wires circuits and motors
Buried in our chest

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Sxeptomaniac

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Icon 1 posted August 23, 2007 09:17      Profile for Sxeptomaniac   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by stevenback7:
Sxeptomaniac: Well what do you propose America does with the next 50 years then? You brought a good point to the table - you have my attention now convince me that you are right.

This isn't the kind of thing you can have a 50-year plan on, just as there isn't any magic bullet that's going to destroy racism. The issues that need to be addressed shift as time goes on. I believe the single biggest issue we need to address at this time is the problem of concentrated pockets of poverty in many cities (pdf) (Google's HTML version of the report). On the other hand, the Louisiana case has little to do with the greater issue of race relations in the US at this time.

quote:
Originally posted by CommanderShroom:
And hubris is a terrible thing to let slip out, much like plumbers crack.

That has to be the best simile I've heard in a long time.

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Let's pray that the human race never escapes from Earth to spread its iniquity elsewhere. - C. S. Lewis

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DoctorWho

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Icon 1 posted August 23, 2007 14:23      Profile for DoctorWho     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Xanthine:
My point in this whole thread has been there are no laws that can be passed to counter the ghost of old Jim Crow. It's hearts and minds that have to change, and you can't force that with legislation. That's all. I offer no rebuttal with regards to that view because so far you've made no point to rebut.

That's been my point too and I am quite surprised he has ignored the only person who is posting about this that actually lives in Louisiana. Steven no politician is going to stop racism. The only thing that will stop racism in America, Canada or wherever is when those people who are racist either grow up morally or die.

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Laughter is like changing a baby's diapers. It doesn't solve anything but it sure improves the situation. Leo F. Buscaglia

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stevenback7
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Icon 1 posted August 23, 2007 14:56      Profile for stevenback7   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by CrawGator:
quote:
Originally posted by Xanthine:
My point in this whole thread has been there are no laws that can be passed to counter the ghost of old Jim Crow. It's hearts and minds that have to change, and you can't force that with legislation. That's all. I offer no rebuttal with regards to that view because so far you've made no point to rebut.

That's been my point too and I am quite surprised he has ignored the only person who is posting about this that actually lives in Louisiana. Steven no politician is going to stop racism. The only thing that will stop racism in America, Canada or wherever is when those people who are racist either grow up morally or die.
Problem is these people are teens. They are a new generation of racist. Should we just speed up this whole process and kill them right now and not have to wait maybe 80 years for some before they die??

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Comic Book Guy: There is no emoticon for what i'm feeling.

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Icon 1 posted August 23, 2007 15:10      Profile for DoctorWho     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by stevenback7:
quote:
Originally posted by CrawGator:
quote:
Originally posted by Xanthine:
My point in this whole thread has been there are no laws that can be passed to counter the ghost of old Jim Crow. It's hearts and minds that have to change, and you can't force that with legislation. That's all. I offer no rebuttal with regards to that view because so far you've made no point to rebut.

That's been my point too and I am quite surprised he has ignored the only person who is posting about this that actually lives in Louisiana. Steven no politician is going to stop racism. The only thing that will stop racism in America, Canada or wherever is when those people who are racist either grow up morally or die.
Problem is these people are teens. They are a new generation of racist. Should we just speed up this whole process and kill them right now and not have to wait maybe 80 years for some before they die??
You are real good at twisting words Steven. Nowhere in my post did I advocate killing anybody. I also mentioned that they could also grow up morally or did you just read what you wanted to read. Education can help some of them, but I am afraid for others it is a lost cause.

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Laughter is like changing a baby's diapers. It doesn't solve anything but it sure improves the situation. Leo F. Buscaglia

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business attire
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Icon 1 posted August 23, 2007 16:08      Profile for business attire     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by stevenback7:
Iím half naked and half falling asleep.

HOTT [hearts] [evil]
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GrumpySteen

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Icon 1 posted August 23, 2007 22:05      Profile for GrumpySteen     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
CrawGator wrote:
The only thing that will stop racism in America, Canada or wherever is when those people who are racist either grow up morally or die.

(Please note that I'm not arguing this point, as I agree with it. I'm just using it as a jumping off point for what I'm going to say.)

In 1775, Patrick Henry uttered the famous words "Give me liberty or give me death[i]" and convinced the state of Virginia to send it's armed forces into the revolutionary war. Everyone knows that bit, but most people don't seem to have read the entire speech. To put it in context, here are the last two sentences: "[i]Is life so dear, or peace so sweet, as to be purchased at the price of chains and slavery? Forbid it, Almighty God! I know not what course others may take; but as for me, give me liberty or give me death!

Since the Revolutionary War, the citizens of the US have held an attitude that life without freedom is worse than death (although that seems to be eroding of late). This is reflected in our society in a lot of ways.

I don't know how many really hard-core racists any of you have dealt with but I've had to endure quite few of them both in the south, because I live here, and in other areas because my job used to include almost constant travel. I've had to listen to these people talk about whatever ethnic group they hate (it's not always African-Americans or whatever the PC term is today). Some of them have hatred that runs so deep that they genuinely seem to believe that everyone of the race they hate should be killed... but I have yet to actually meet one who genuinely thinks slavery should be brought back.

I know there are some out there who hold that opinion. If you search on the internet, you can find the occasional web page put up by one of them. They're rare, though.

In 1669, Virginia became the first state to pass codes saying it was not a crime for slave owners to kill their slaves. In 1705 they revised these into even more brutally racist codes. Maryland and other states followed suit. Over 150 years passed before Virginia repealed the slave codes in 1866.

Somewhere between then and now, virtually everyone has accepted that slavery was wrong and it's no longer endorsed by anyone beyond a few fringe lunatics. 141 years is not a rate of acceptance to be proud of, but at least the thinking of society is generally headed the right direction.

I think we're currently seeing the idea that it's okay to kill someone based on race, even though our laws say it isn't, has been mostly accepted although there are some very backwards thinking holdouts (as I already mentioned).

As much as I would like to see racism vanish tomorrow, it's not going to. It's not going to go away in our life times or your children's life times. Changing hundreds of years of cultural acceptance is a slow process and I know of no way to accelerate it.

To bring this to a close, I have one more quote to give. In 1773, Patrick Henry wrote a letter to Robert Pleasants which contained the following:
I believe a time will come when an oppo. will be offered to abolish this lamentable Evil.--Every thing we can do is to improve it, if it happens in our day, if not, let us transmit to our descendants together with our Slaves, a pity for their unhappy Lot, & an abhorrence for Slavery. If we cannot reduce this wished for Reformation to practice, let us treat the unhappy victims with lenity, it is ye. furthest advance we can make toward Justice...

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Worst. Celibate. Ever.

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Icon 1 posted August 24, 2007 12:41      Profile for DoctorWho     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Steen:
As much as I would like to see racism vanish tomorrow, it's not going to. It's not going to go away in our life times or your children's life times. Changing hundreds of years of cultural acceptance is a slow process and I know of no way to accelerate it.

I don't even think it will be gone in the lifetime of the grandchildren of my grandchildren Steen. I never met my great grandfathers but my father tells me that they were not exactly enlightened when it came to people who were not white. My grandfather was tolerant but never accepted them. My father worked with them every day he was on the police force and many are friends to this day. I said all of this to say that it's a generational issue.

Education and time are probably the only weapons we have in this fight. Moral and historical education has to happen in the schools. Inspirational stories like Rosa Parks, Dr. King, the Little Rock Nine and the million man march need to be told to these students so they can be in the shoes of the people who lived those lives and see how wrong it is to treat someone as less than human. Moral values also need to be taught so that the students can understand on their level good moral values. I used to think that morality was a parent issue but as I grow older it's apparent to me that many parents just don't have what it takes to raise upstanding citizens and that schools need to become father and mother if we are to have any hope for the future.

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Laughter is like changing a baby's diapers. It doesn't solve anything but it sure improves the situation. Leo F. Buscaglia

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