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Author Topic: This is not the answer
Ashitaka

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Icon 2 posted June 24, 2007 08:50      Profile for Ashitaka     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Banning bottled water is not the answer. It is unfair. They should ban all platics bottled beverages if they want to take this route but there are better solutions.

Require all places (i.e. wall mart) that sell beverages in PET (poly ethylene) bottles to recycle at least 70% of them. This is what they do in switzerland. It works great. THe stores make it very convientient for people to come drop off thier bottles. They have to or they won't get the 70% that they need. They solve the problem, while being fair to all parties.

I bet the soda companies are loving this. This law is going to make it alot easier to be unhealthy, drinking soda instead of water.

[Mad]

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"If they're not gonna make a distinction between Muslims and violent extremists, then why should I take the time to distinguish between decent, fearful white people and racists?"

-Assif Mandvi

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GrumpySteen

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Icon 1 posted June 24, 2007 10:09      Profile for GrumpySteen     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
In the US, most of the major brands of bottled water are distributed by the soda companies. It won't really affect their profits either way if people switch to soda or stay with water.

Incidentally, the only large water distributer that I could think of that isn't owned by a soda company is Culligan. I went to their web page to verify this and I was appropriately horrified (but I still took a screen shot for posterity).

If you don't understand why that link is funny/horrifying, just be glad and don't worry about it.

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Xanthine

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Icon 1 posted June 24, 2007 10:25      Profile for Xanthine     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
I understand. I wish I didn't.

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And it's one, two, three / On the wrong side of the lee / What were you meant for? / What were you meant for?
- The Decemberists

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sosumi
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Icon 1 posted June 24, 2007 11:31      Profile for sosumi   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
There goes my lunch!
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ASM65816
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Icon 1 posted June 24, 2007 11:32      Profile for ASM65816   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
June 24, 2007 08:50
Require all places (i.e. wall mart) that sell beverages in PET (poly ethylene) bottles to recycle at least 70% of them. This is what they do in Switzerland. It works great.

Sadly enough, the problem is people. After seeing a couple of aluminum cans tossed on the roadside near my house, I walked a two mile loop in my neighborhood for exercise (carrying a plastic bag), and I found over a dozen aluminum cans as litter (which went into my recycling bin).

Knowing that the small business where I work has a city recycling bin, I suggest:
  • For each plastic bottle sold, collect a "deposit" from the wholesaler (maybe $0.01) which is used as a rebate to businesses which maintain recycling bins.
     
  • During pickup for recycled materials, a mark is added to the company's tally if plastics exceed a certain quantity by visual estimate. (A PDA like package delivery companies use would probably be "perfect.")
     
  • Every company that meets a set quantity of recycled material gets a percentage rebate off its sanitation billing for the fiscal quarter, paid for by the collected "deposit." (It's probably a subsidy to be technical -- subsidized collection of recyclables.)
     
  • As an added incentive, the businesses in the top 10% of recycling per collection quantity receive a higher rebate for their conservation efforts. (For example, if two businesses recycle for all 52 weeks of the year, the business with only 3 trash cans is treated as the better recycler over the business with 5 trash cans.)
EDIT: The problem in the US with recycling bins in public places is that people use them as trash cans.
[Frown]

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Once a proud programmer of Apple II's, he now spends his days and nights in cheap dives fraternizing with exotic dancers....

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Bibo
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Icon 1 posted June 24, 2007 11:59      Profile for Bibo   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
What makes no sense to me is why there are not bottle deposits on water, juice & sport drinks. Michigan and many other states have bottle deposits on pop and beer cans & bottles only. They should also put deposits on wine & liquor bottles (many of the lower end liquors are moving to plastic bottles). I was good about recycling food cans, glass jars & bottles and milk jugs when I owned a home. But now I live in an apartment and they do not have recycling bins, just trash pickup. And too many people just don't want to deal with separating their garbage even when recycling is available.
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dragonman97

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Icon 1 posted June 24, 2007 12:20      Profile for dragonman97   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Bibo: There's talk around here about setting up bottle deposit programs for the rest of bottled beverages around here. According to some recent articles I read, the reason for the limited coverage is historical - the other beverages had such limited sales until recently that it wasn't deemed necessary to include them. Now, the manufacturers are doing everything they can to lobby against it, to keep their costs down, and prevent consumer opposition to prices. Personally, as a consumer I would very much *like* them to institute these deposits, as I'm sick and tired of the rubbish people are leaving around, for which I end up being a sucker and properly disposing when I have time. Mind you, the biggest part of the debate is what to do with the unclaimed deposits...NY wants the $$$ for their coffers, and the vendors want to keep it for themselves.

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fs

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Icon 1 posted June 24, 2007 13:59      Profile for fs   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Bottled water isn't being banned anywhere. The city of San Francisco is no longer going to pay to provide bottled water in city and county offices.

I've lived places with great tap water and revolting tap water. I used to use a Brita filter pitcher at home because bottled water really is insanely expensive. But if I'm driving or out someplace, especially in the summer, I prefer water to most of the other beverage options.

I do think they should put a deposit on energy drinks and bottled water too. And maybe increase it to .10 or .15. And use the uncollected deposit funds for health programs and nutrition education.

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Ashitaka

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Icon 1 posted June 24, 2007 14:07      Profile for Ashitaka     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by fs:
Bottled water isn't being banned anywhere. The city of San Francisco is no longer going to pay to provide bottled water in city and county offices.

I've lived places with great tap water and revolting tap water. I used to use a Brita filter pitcher at home because bottled water really is insanely expensive. But if I'm driving or out someplace, especially in the summer, I prefer water to most of the other beverage options.

I do think they should put a deposit on energy drinks and bottled water too. And maybe increase it to .10 or .15. And use the uncollected deposit funds for health programs and nutrition education.

wow, thanks for actually reading the article. I fell stupid now. [Frown] [blush] Newspeople and thier sensationalist titles.

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"If they're not gonna make a distinction between Muslims and violent extremists, then why should I take the time to distinguish between decent, fearful white people and racists?"

-Assif Mandvi

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CommanderShroom
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Icon 1 posted June 24, 2007 17:30      Profile for CommanderShroom     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
We have a tax on most of the plastic and aluminum cans that are sold in CA. I believe it is honestly all, but I am not totally sure.

My company keeps bins in all of the break rooms for cans and plastic bottles. We save them, send them out for a recycling program and then the proceeds are given to our local United Way chapter.

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Ugh, MightyClub
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Icon 1 posted June 25, 2007 10:03      Profile for Ugh, MightyClub     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
On a (somewhat) related note, disposal of the containers is not the only problem. The source of the material is an issue as well. So is practicing what you preach.

We went to the zoo in Syracuse yesterday. They have some educational-type signs posted in the monkey house about protecting rainforests. On one a kid is telling his father to buy orange juice in a large glass container instead of little aluminum cans, because aluminum production harms rainforests.

Fair enough. (Though the zoo's claims are at odds with claims I've seen that aluminum is the most recyclable of container materials.)

So anyway, we continue our wanderings around the park where we see numerous vending machines dispensing soda... in aluminum friggin' cans! I bet they thought I wouldn't notice.

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Ugh!

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Lost1soul
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Icon 1 posted June 25, 2007 16:30      Profile for Lost1soul     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
I really hope they don't do this in my city. It has been advised by most that pregnant women should not drink the tap water in my city and others should drink filtered water when at all possible. This puts up a red flag in my book. Tap water can have some nasty things in it.
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WinterSolstice

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Icon 1 posted June 25, 2007 16:49      Profile for WinterSolstice     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Lost1soul:
I really hope they don't do this in my city. It has been advised by most that pregnant women should not drink the tap water in my city and others should drink filtered water when at all possible. This puts up a red flag in my book. Tap water can have some nasty things in it.

Yeah - it can have Dasani, for one thing [Wink]

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CommanderShroom
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Icon 1 posted June 25, 2007 16:50      Profile for CommanderShroom     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Lost1soul:
I really hope they don't do this in my city. It has been advised by most that pregnant women should not drink the tap water in my city and others should drink filtered water when at all possible. This puts up a red flag in my book. Tap water can have some nasty things in it.

They aren't banning the drinking of bottled water, just the city purchasing it for employees.

Or at least as best as I could tell from the article. I would assume something such as an outright ban would have gotten a much more sensational title.

I rarely will ingest the tap water here. I don't care how many awards we have supposedly won for our tap water in So. Cal. It is nasty stuff. I <3 my Brita.

--------------------
Does he know our big secret?
Has one of us confessed?
'Bout the wires circuits and motors
Buried in our chest

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Just_Jess_B

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Icon 1 posted June 25, 2007 18:40      Profile for Just_Jess_B   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Penta is bottled stupid tax. Outside of that? Meh. Soda and water companies don't have as strict standards as municipal water supplies.

I think it's a good idea to make people drink out of the water fountain and stop whining. San Francisco is filled with erudite sobby bitches wanting to live in New York City but just aren't hip enough. As Marie Antoinette (S.F. topless dancer working on Broadway) said:

"Let them drink from the garden hose . . . but if they want me to, it's an extra five bucks per minute."

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Xanthine

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Icon 1 posted June 25, 2007 19:05      Profile for Xanthine     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Want bottled water? Get a Brita and a Nalgene. Problem solved.

Nalgenes are very hard to break, they're dishwasher safe, and, what with all the designer colors Nalgenes come in nowadays, you can coordinate your Nalgene to your outfit, or you can get a sporty little insulated jacket for it (actually, I shouldn't make too much fun of water bottle parkas...they've served me well). If you want everyone to think you're hard core, you can attach your Nalgene to your backpack or purse or satchel or what-have-you via a carabiner. These also come in designer colors nowadays, and so you can coordinate your 'biners to your Nalgenes and your outfits. Problem solved.

That glacier-fresh business is over-rated. I promise, no one wants to drink straight up glacier melt (unless you did it yourself over a camp stove - surface snow is pretty clean). It's a silty fscking mess. It's so dirty it doesn't even look clear. They must have to filter the hell out of it.

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And it's one, two, three / On the wrong side of the lee / What were you meant for? / What were you meant for?
- The Decemberists

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ScholasticSpastic
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Icon 1 posted June 25, 2007 20:52      Profile for ScholasticSpastic     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Tapwater is fine for most uses. I've propogated corals in it (with the addition of appropriate ions, of course!). If it doesn't kill coral- mine thrived- it will probably do the job for you as well. We're a bit sturdier than coral animals.

They told me I was mad! Mad, I tell you! But I did it!!!! Muhwa-hwa!!!!

I've found that the tap water for most of the state of Utah tastes a bit better than most bottled waters when allowed to settle and refrigerated. The coldness is the thing. I keep a jug of tapwater in my fridge. Good stuff!

If you're really leary, most municipal water districts offer detailed analyses of the source water for any variety of interesting chemicals. As a fish geek I get one everywhere I go. I haven't found any concentrations that send up alarms yet.

I save the special water for my orchids. Tap water works for everything else in my apartment. Well, okay, I put a little distilled water in my snake's water dish periodically to take care of the deposition of particulates that takes place.

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"As in repeating a well-known song, so in instincts, one action follows another by a sort of rhythm; if a person be interrupted in a song, or in repeating anything by rote, he is generally forced to go back to recover the habitual train of thought..." (Darwin, The Origin of Species)

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Icon 1 posted June 26, 2007 06:14      Profile for business attire     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Xanthine:
Want bottled water? Get a Brita and a Nalgene. Problem solved.

...what with all the designer colors Nalgenes come in nowadays, you can coordinate your Nalgene to your outfit,...If you want everyone to think you're hard core, you can attach your Nalgene to your backpack or purse or satchel or what-have-you via a carabiner. These also come in designer colors nowadays, and so you can coordinate your 'biners to your Nalgenes and your outfits. Problem solved.

I still want to marry you. [hearts]
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GrumpySteen

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... and half the guys on the forum still want to watch [evil]

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BooBooKitty

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Icon 1 posted June 26, 2007 06:33      Profile for BooBooKitty     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Xanthine:
Want bottled water? Get a Brita and a Nalgene. Problem solved.

Nalgenes are very hard to break, they're dishwasher safe, and, what with all the designer colors Nalgenes come in nowadays, you can coordinate your Nalgene to your outfit, or you can get a sporty little insulated jacket for it (actually, I shouldn't make too much fun of water bottle parkas...they've served me well). If you want everyone to think you're hard core, you can attach your Nalgene to your backpack or purse or satchel or what-have-you via a carabiner. These also come in designer colors nowadays, and so you can coordinate your 'biners to your Nalgenes and your outfits. Problem solved.

I have 2 pink, 1 liter Nalgene bottles. One has the wide mouth, the other is narrow mouth. I've also got a purple 1/2 liter bottle that I use at work. I have a Brita pitcher at home and they have filtered water here at work. I don't need to buy bottled water. [Smile]

No need to contribute more plastic than necessary to the landfills. We just all need to do out part! But it kills me when I see people unload a huge case of bottled water that they just bought at Costco or something. [Razz]

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Highlie
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Icon 1 posted June 26, 2007 06:38      Profile for business attire     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
I have a pink one too! I've had it for four years.

I have no idea where it is.... I want it [Frown]

Two nalgenes-full a day is the whole 8 glasses (64 ounces) of water a day you're supposed to drink.

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WinterSolstice

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Icon 1 posted June 26, 2007 07:50      Profile for WinterSolstice     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Depends on body weight/activity level, etc. [Smile]

I drink 3l per day. YMMV

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Just_Jess_B

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Icon 1 posted June 26, 2007 08:19      Profile for Just_Jess_B   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Oooh, I calculated how much water a person needs to drink daily by weight!

Okay, it's a standard that you take your weight in lbs, divide by two, and that's how many ounces of water a day you need to drink to flush your system.

EXAMPLE:

Trillian is 130 lbs. She divides her weight by 2 (130/2 = 65). She needs to drink 65 ounces of water to flush her system.

Now, I did a little work and realized that to use metric, one needs to divide one's weight/mass by 30 to get the Litres/day.

EXAMPLE:

Zaphod weighs 75 kg (extra head, extra arm, etc.). He divides his weight by 30 (75/30 =2.5). He needs to drink 2.5 L of water to flush his system.

See? Easy! Now, if you want to get really anal-retentive? You could actually divide by 30.6755654, but I think since 30 is a nice, round number, it works better and it only gives you maybe a couple more centiliters extra.

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Highlie
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Icon 1 posted June 26, 2007 08:26      Profile for business attire     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
wow other-Jess -- thats brilliant! Thanks so much.

so I need to drink... 75 ounces. thats an extra glass (plus 3 oz)) than I've been drinking.

another great drink-your-water tip is to drink a glass of water at the top of each hour. thats what I've been doing while my nalgene is lost. I keep a cup on my desk for this.

I've also heard that you should avoid liquids after 8 pm so you don't pee all night.

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Sxeptomaniac

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Icon 1 posted June 26, 2007 08:47      Profile for Sxeptomaniac   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
I used one of those Brita pitchers years ago, but decided even that was a waste for me. I grew up drinking tap water infamous in the area for its high sulfur content, so there's really not much that bothers me at this point.

I also own a couple of nalgene bottles, and use them pretty frequently.

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Let's pray that the human race never escapes from Earth to spread its iniquity elsewhere. - C. S. Lewis

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