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Author Topic: More Conservative "Values"
Colonel Panic
BlabberMouth, the Next Generation
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Icon 1 posted February 14, 2007 15:20      Profile for Colonel Panic         Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
http://www.cnn.com/2007/LAW/02/14/scalia.daughter.ap/index.html

Conservative Values:

Have nine kids. Get 'em liquored up. Send 'em to a fast food joint with their kids in the car. Have 'em get busted for driving drunk with kids in the car. Sit on a bench and lecture the rest of us how to raise our children.

Just about sums up the American Right Wing, doesn't it?

Colonel Panic

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Free! Free at last!

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TheMoMan
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Icon 1 posted February 15, 2007 10:12      Profile for TheMoMan         Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
CP_________________________Just wondering if you saw this link.

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,252141,00.html

Enron came out this way but not by action of the state.

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Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.


Benjamin Franklin,

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GameMaster
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Icon 1 posted February 15, 2007 11:27      Profile for GameMaster   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Your complaining because of a Justices daughter's action? Well, then I won't even mention the hon- *hic* -erable Sen. Kenedy who killed a woman, went home to sober up, got only a slap on the wrist, and was still re-elected how many times?

There are people, elected and apponted, on both (well, both implies a dichotomy, when it's a lot more complicated than that) sides of the political scale who are f*ed up. I say we throw the whole bunch out.

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My Site

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ScholasticSpastic
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Icon 1 posted February 15, 2007 17:51      Profile for ScholasticSpastic     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
I'm with GameMaster. Let's ditch 'em all and start over. We're already pretty much dealing with the worst-case scenario. The only way to go is up.

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"As in repeating a well-known song, so in instincts, one action follows another by a sort of rhythm; if a person be interrupted in a song, or in repeating anything by rote, he is generally forced to go back to recover the habitual train of thought..." (Darwin, The Origin of Species)

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TMBWITW,PB

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Icon 1 posted February 15, 2007 17:58      Profile for TMBWITW,PB     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Personally, I think one of the worst mistakes the founding fathers made was not imposing term limits on senators and representatives. Unfortunately the only way to change that is an act of Congress, and you can guess how likely that is. [Roll Eyes]

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"Beauty is in the eye of the beholder and it may be necessary from time to time to give a stupid or misinformed beholder a black eye."
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The Famous Druid

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Icon 1 posted February 15, 2007 18:15      Profile for The Famous Druid     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
I like the lottery system, each year you choose 25 citizens at random, to serve a 4 year term, so you have a 100-member parliament.

Allow them to be sacked by a 3/4 vote of their peers (this is the anti-ASM clause).

Pay them a generous salary while they're serving, and a generous pension for the rest of their lives (to reduce the temptation for corruption).

Any proven corruption would be punished severely (automatic long prison terms).

Sure, you'd get some clueless gits, and some crooks (just like we do now) but at least there'd be a chance of honest people being chosen, the current system actively weeds-out anyone with integrity.

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If you watch 'The History Of NASA' backwards, it's about a space agency that has no manned spaceflight capability, then does low-orbit flights, then lands on the Moon.

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Colonel Panic
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Icon 1 posted February 15, 2007 18:17      Profile for Colonel Panic         Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by GameMaster:
Your complaining because of a Justices daughter's action? Well, then I won't even mention the hon- *hic* -erable Sen. Kenedy who killed a woman, went home to sober up, got only a slap on the wrist, and was still re-elected how many times?

GWB was asleep at the wheel on 9/11 and almost 3.000 people died. He's still asleep at the wheel and another 3,100 troops die.

And what do YOU, Moron of the Day, have to say?

40 some years after a car accident is all you have to complain about? Typical, weak, righty whining. Hasn't Fox News fed you any better lies to swallow?

Where are those WMDs? Where are those firings for the folks who outed Valerie Plame? Where are those roses and candies in the streets of Baghdad? Where is Osama on a Rope?

Oh yeah, I remember. You are a pathetic, right wing lose who has done everything possible to set Osama free and weaken our military on right-wing wild goose chases.

And your VALUES are having people like Dick Cheney with gay daughters, and Antonia Scalia with drunk, child abusing kids, and Mark Foley raping our teenagers tell the rest of us how to live.

Yeah, we know your values.

And you dare slime a combat veteran who never voted for Ted Kennedy with this crap? You are garbag of the worst sort. How dare you?

What a pathetic loser you are Game Boy. No wonder your conservative croneys have lost the war on terror. You have no morals, you have no values. You have no sense of right or wrong.

Worst of all, you have no sense of shame.

Colonel Panic

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Posts: 1809 | From: Glacier Melt, USA | Registered: Mar 2002  |  IP: Logged
Colonel Panic
BlabberMouth, the Next Generation
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Icon 1 posted February 15, 2007 18:21      Profile for Colonel Panic         Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by TheMoMan:
CP_________________________Just wondering if you saw this link.

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,252141,00.html

Enron came out this way but not by action of the state.

Mo_Man,

Thanks for the link.

I was particularly impressed with the fellow who commited suicide once he realized he was duped. Now if we could only convince the Bush supporters in this country to do the same ....

Colonel Panic

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Free! Free at last!

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ScholasticSpastic
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Icon 1 posted February 15, 2007 22:28      Profile for ScholasticSpastic     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
U-Statesers don't take responsibility when we're duped- we litigate.

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"As in repeating a well-known song, so in instincts, one action follows another by a sort of rhythm; if a person be interrupted in a song, or in repeating anything by rote, he is generally forced to go back to recover the habitual train of thought..." (Darwin, The Origin of Species)

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Callipygous
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Icon 1 posted February 16, 2007 02:05      Profile for Callipygous     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Colonel Panic I have absolutely no wish whatsoever to be fair to GWB, the religious right, and the neoconservatives. You know full well that I regard them as the spawn of Satan, and indeed impatiently await the DNA evidence to prove this beyond doubt. However I have known far too many decent people whose children have gone off the rails to judge anyone by the behaviour of their offspring. For instance my own father's parents were among the wisest fairest and most loving you might encounter anywhere, and my father was too, yet his brother (my uncle) was a hopelessly irresponsible charmer who slit his wrists in the bath in his late forties, leaving his wife and two lovely daughters to pick up the pieces.

Ted Kennedy on the other hand was of course entirely responsible for his own political demise, though that is such ancient history that it seems a weak argument to raise in this context. They might as well bring up Huey Long to show that all Democrats tend to dictatorial demagoguery!

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"Knowledge is Power. France is Bacon" - Milton

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atayarani
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Icon 1 posted February 16, 2007 09:30      Profile for atayarani     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
I wouldn't say Ted Kennedy's political career has suffered from demise. Sure, he hasn't been promoted from senator, but that's still a pretty high rank.

His name still means something good in massachusetts, and since that's who he is expected to represent that should be good enough for us.

I mean, what else should he do? Run for president? I can't say that worked out well for other Kennedys.

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ASM65816
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Icon 1 posted February 16, 2007 20:03      Profile for ASM65816   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Point 1. One Is Not Proof of All
quote:
February 14, 2007, 15:20
(gives one case/element of a set)
Just about sums up the American Right Wing, doesn't it?

One element of a set does not prove all elements of the set are the same.

... but I'm willing to play that game for a minute or two.
quote:
  1. Saddam Hussein was a Muslim.
  2. Saddam Hussein was incredibly evil and executed for (a small number of) his crimes.
  3. Therefore, all Muslims are incredibly evil and should be executed.
That gets rid of the first 2.1 billion homo sapiens. If someone else will provide a few more examples, we can justify the extermination of the remaining 4.4 billion hairless apes.   [shake head]
I can name dozens of other Muslims which are almost as loathsome as Saddam, but that still does not make the "One Proves All" argument any more valid.
 

Point 2. Government and Government Officials
quote:
The most terrifying words in English: "I'm from the government and I'm here to help you."
Repeat the following mantra: "I don't want the government to help me."

However, I expect to receive goods and services commensurate to payments made (taxes). For example:
  • Roads
  • Aqueducts
  • Sanitation
  • Protection from local and foreign threats to civil order
This is nothing more than capitalism or economic theory applied to government. People don't want to pay $500 for a banana; people don't want to pay $5000 for politician's lunch (or a CEO's lunch in a stockholder's case).

Government is management.
  • A small project can be handled by a mediocre manager.
  • A very large project must be handled by a very good manager.
  • An incredibly immense project must be handled by a manager with immense talent and knowledge, and with accurate reports on all aspects of the project.
The above reflects part of why the law of diminishing returns exists. Cost of communication, duplication of effort, and separation of decision maker from decision outcome are some causes of "diseconomies of scale."

Basically you want a "middle-sized" government:
  • Large enough that economy of scale provides lowest cost per unit service, with the power to actually get things done.
  • Small enough that management overhead doesn't negate benefits. (example: 10 bureaucrats for every taxpayer is way too much.)

quote:
February 15, 2007, 18:15
I like the lottery system, each year you choose ___ citizens at random....

Oh great, half of all people are below average intelligence, and 75% (rough guess) of citizens are not trained as managers.

Therefore, only 13% of your government officials are above average intelligence and have management skills.   [Roll Eyes]

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Once a proud programmer of Apple II's, he now spends his days and nights in cheap dives fraternizing with exotic dancers....

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The Famous Druid

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Icon 1 posted February 16, 2007 20:34      Profile for The Famous Druid     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Let me guess... Russia, China, France, and the UN ran that car off the bridge, and then the body was smuggled to Darfur.

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If you watch 'The History Of NASA' backwards, it's about a space agency that has no manned spaceflight capability, then does low-orbit flights, then lands on the Moon.

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GrumpySteen

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Icon 1 posted February 16, 2007 20:53      Profile for GrumpySteen     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
ASM65816 wrote:
If someone else will provide a few more examples, we can justify the extermination of the remaining 4.4 billion hairless apes.

Well, it would really help the environment and would probably save a lot of endangered species...

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ASM65816
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Icon 11 posted February 16, 2007 21:02      Profile for ASM65816   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
February 16, 2007 20:53
Well, it would really help the environment and would probably save a lot of endangered species...

Yep, exterminate one species to save one thousand others; it don't get more evironmentalist than that.
[Wink]   [evil]

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Once a proud programmer of Apple II's, he now spends his days and nights in cheap dives fraternizing with exotic dancers....

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Spiderman

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Icon 1 posted February 16, 2007 22:17      Profile for Spiderman     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
/me yawns

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Math problems? Call 1-800-[(10x)(13i)^2]-[sin(xy)/2.362x]

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ScholasticSpastic
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Icon 1 posted February 17, 2007 01:21      Profile for ScholasticSpastic     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
ASM:
That gets rid of the first 2.1 billion homo sapiens. If someone else will provide a few more examples, we can justify the extermination of the remaining 4.4 billion hairless apes.

Alright! Now you're talking my language, Jack! I knew we could get along! How 'bout this one(?): Most of them don't bathe adequately and those who do are snotty about it. Too few of them know which forks to use with which course and too many of them are busy inventing new forks. The fundamentalists are distinguishable from the rest of the unwashed masses only by the fact that they keep trying to bring every conversation back around to the same tired argument. Everyone else is too stupid to stop listening.

That said, I know just what I'm going to do: I'm gonna find a way to keep Bush in office indefinitely. He's doin' a hell of a job seeing to the putting down of excess persons and he's very nearly convinced a bunch of other countries to help out. The way we're going we should soon have exterminated everyone who deserves to die and then the mighty cockroaches can rise up and take their rightful place as Lords of the Universe. All hail the cockroaches! (...also the shrimp because they're, like, tasty aquatic cockroaches...)

quote:
ASM:
Therefore, only 13% of your government officials are above average intelligence and have management skills.

That many, eh? How the hell are we going to wipe ourselves out and make way for the Cockroach Lords if we keep hiring so many competent people to run our government? Next time, I'm voting straight-ticket. Bush for Mayor, Bush for Governor, Bush for Senator, and Bush for President. Plus, I'm gonna start a referrendum that says he can fire the whole current Supreme Court and replace them with his favorite baseball players. He's the man for the job, seeing the way to a brighter future and the rise of the Cockroach Lords.

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"As in repeating a well-known song, so in instincts, one action follows another by a sort of rhythm; if a person be interrupted in a song, or in repeating anything by rote, he is generally forced to go back to recover the habitual train of thought..." (Darwin, The Origin of Species)

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Aoi Suiren
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Icon 2 posted February 17, 2007 03:58      Profile for Aoi Suiren   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
More ironic it happened it Wheaton though... buncha rich snobs, if you go there and you are not from there people are rude- but yet if you live there seems you can get away with anything- if the police don't get you, at least.
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ASM65816
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Icon 2 posted February 18, 2007 11:41      Profile for ASM65816   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Point 1. Learn to Recognize Facetious Comments
quote:
ASM:
That gets rid of the first 2.1 billion homo sapiens. If someone else will provide a few more examples, we can justify the extermination of the remaining 4.4 billion hairless apes.
    FYI: The above comment is Facetious.

February 17, 2007, 01:21
(snip ... sarcasm) How 'bout this one(?): ... Too few of them know which forks to use with which course and too many of them are busy inventing new forks. .......

If you were really going to provide examples to get rid of "the remaining 4.4 billion," you would say something like:
quote:
Mr. ____ is an evil Buddhist, so we'll kill all the Buddhists. Mr. ____ is an evil Catholic, so we'll kill all the Catholics. Mr. ____ is an evil Atheist, so we'll kill all the Atheists. (etc. etc. etc)
[shake head]
 

Point 2. Governments and Killing
quote:
February 17, 2007, 01:21
How the hell are we going to wipe ourselves out and make way for the Cockroach Lords if we keep hiring so many competent people to run our government? Next time, I'm voting straight-ticket. Bush for Mayor, Bush for Governor, Bush for Senator, and Bush for President.

#include <condescending.h>
Since you seem to be unaware of other governments making way for the "Cockroach Lords":
  • Communism -- various countries, about 100 million dead (high score for government type)
  • Dictatorship -- Nazi Germany wiped out 6 million (high score for single leader)
  • Rwanda (apparently a republic) -- killed 800,000 in 3 months (record for fastest slaughter)
  • Theocracy -- Iran marched children and "old men" through minefields killing 150,000 (fortunately their soldiers were not injured)
But wait, there's more!!! You don't even need a government to kill people: Al-Qaeda isn't a government. Plenty of people die from suicide bombings, death-squads of religious sects, gang violence, and the operations of drug lords.
 

Point 3. Some of You Still Don't Get It
quote:
(the same crap that keeps being repeated)
"AAIIIGH!!! THE U.S. IS THE SUM OF ALL EVIL ON EARTH!!!
NO ONE KILLS MORE PEOPLE THAN THE U.S.!!!
IF THE U.S. DIDN'T EXIST THE WORLD WOULD BECOME A UTOPIA!!!
THE U.S. IS THE MOST OPPRESSIVE GOVERNMENT IN THE UNIVERSE!!!

The fastest and least expensive ways for the US to increase world death toll are:
  1. Do Not Deploy US Troops to Prevent Governments from Killing Own People:

    Example - Remember Milosevic slaughtering Muslims in Bosnia? The UN "safe areas" made genocide easier by using empty words as the primary defense against bullets.
    quote:
    Clinton was evil for sending troops to Bosnia without UN approval. The UN did not authorize force, so Bosnia should have played out just like Rwanda, except that it would have been 800,000 or 2 million Muslims that died.
  2. Do Not Send Taxpayer Money to Foreign Countries:

    Example - U.S. development assistance for the World Bank and humanitarian projects 2003 was about $16.2 billion. Japan is second at $8.9 billion, and no European nation gives even half as much as the US.
    quote:
    The US is evil for building water treatment plants in third-world countries and interfering with the natural death caused by AIDS and disasters like earthquakes and a tsunami.
  3. Do Not Allow Private Charity to Leave the US:

    Example - U.S. Agency for International Development estimated that in 2000, private organizations in the US provided $33.6 billion in aid to other countries.
    quote:
    Americans are the most evil people on earth because they do stuff like send food to people in Africa.
Every "explanation" the anti-America people give for hating the US looks like a lie because it's ridiculously easy to find multiple authoritarian governments which are undeniably "evil" and "a hundred times worse."

However, when people say "1 is the same as 94," lies don't surprise me.   [shake head]

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Once a proud programmer of Apple II's, he now spends his days and nights in cheap dives fraternizing with exotic dancers....

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The Explainer
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Icon 1 posted February 18, 2007 12:42      Profile for The Explainer     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by ASM65816:
However, when people say "1 is the same as 94" lies don't surprise me.

quote:
Originally posted by ASM65816: (in another thread)
The last time I mentioned this fact, the rebuttal was: "238 is the same as 21,945"

Mr 65816 has difficulty understanding simple concepts expressed in plain English.

No-one ever claimed that "1 is the same as 94" or that "238 is the same as 21,945".

The statements Mr 65816 are referring to could be more accurately summarized as

"If you steal $238, you're a thief, even if the guy across the road stole $21,945"

or

"If you murder 1 person, you're a murderer, even if the guy in the next town murdered 94 people.

Mr 65816's response to any allegations of wrongdoing by the USA is usually to point out that some other country did something worse, as if that excuses what the USA did.

Posts: 53 | From: The hall of logic | Registered: Sep 2006  |  IP: Logged
GrumpySteen

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Icon 12 posted February 18, 2007 13:09      Profile for GrumpySteen     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
1 is the same as 94 for extremely large values of 1

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The Explainer
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Icon 1 posted February 18, 2007 13:23      Profile for The Explainer     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Correction to my previous statement:

Almost no-one is saying 1 is the same as 94. [Wink]

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GameMaster
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Icon 1 posted February 19, 2007 04:59      Profile for GameMaster   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Your complaining because of a Justices daughter's action? Well, then I won't even mention the hon- *hic* -erable Sen. Kenedy who killed a woman, went home to sober up, got only a slap on the wrist, and was still re-elected how many times?
GWB was asleep at the wheel on 9/11 and almost 3.000 people died. He's still asleep at the wheel and another 3,100 troops die.


Justice's daughter and Bush's policy are two seperate topics. I realize that people who vote straight tickets without thinking lump topics but what a jump. I'll try to infer the jump your triying to make. If you're trying to imply that Bush murdered the victums of Trade Tower accident, I beg for real conclusive proof (your other thread wasn't such proof, so don't just link it). Otherwise let's stay on the topic of murder.

As for the Iraq war. I've already stated my position. And don't think it's relavent to the discussion on drunk driving.

And what do YOU, Moron of the Day, have to say?
I will not respond to personal attacks and name calling because it would belittle both of us to continue this line of "argument"

40 some years after a car accident is all you have to complain about?
No, it's not all I have to complain about, but you must not have read my post or infered what it said. You commented on drunk driving being a "value" fault of one judge's (who is partless by position -- but was appointed by a Republican), and I pointed to case of drunk driving, vehicular manslaughter and leaving the scene of an accident by a known Democrat.


quote:
Typical, weak, righty whining.
My post wasn't right leaning at all, and if you think it was re-read what I said.

quote:
Hasn't Fox News fed you any better lies to swallow?
I don't watch Fox or CNN, I prefer real news.

quote:
Where are those WMDs?
Looking at the same evidence most democrates came to the same conclusion Bush did. John Kerry and Hillary Clinton included, and both only recanted their postions when they began campaigning for president (Hillary of course publically supported the war for a lot longer than Kerry because her run for president is more current). Going to war isn't really a partison issue, as the Democrates voted for it, too. Now, the Democrates are backsliding and trying to rewrite their voting records with speeches -- personally votes count more than words to me. But again, not topical.

quote:
Where are those firings for the folks who outed Valerie Plame? Where are those roses and candies in the streets of Baghdad? Where is Osama on a Rope?
Um, this has to do with the honnerable Judge how? *sigh*

quote:
Oh yeah, I remember. You are a pathetic, right wing lose who has done everything possible to set Osama free and weaken our military on right-wing wild goose chases.
Weakening military is the effect of the post-cold war administration, primarly Clintion era policies. Moreover, my best freind is current in Afganastan building bases from which to continue searching the mountains from. I support the troops, and have sent packages to them to make their stay as comfortable as I can. What have you done for them? That said, what does this have to do with the Judge's daughter?

quote:
And your VALUES are having people like Dick Cheney with gay daughters, and Antonia Scalia with drunk, child abusing kids, and Mark Foley raping our teenagers tell the rest of us how to live.
I never voted for not would have voted for Mark based on his votes on other issues even before it was known he was sending indecent e-mails. I think that it's great hat Dick Cheney's daughter is open about her sexual preference, and Cheney's relcutant acceptance of it is a step in the right direction. I've always been against bans on gay marrage, but I realize you people who vote straight tickets without thinking like to lump issues...

quote:
Yeah, we know your values.
Apparently you don't.

quote:
And you dare slime a combat veteran who never voted for Ted Kennedy with this crap?
I didn't "slime" you, I pointed out that both sides of the political scale have bad members and that the system as whole is broken because of carreer politicans. If that offends you, I'm not sorry. I didn't make any personal comment on you (in this thread), and those I did elsewhere make were in responce to your poor additude and bad behavior in other thread.

quote:
You are garbag of the worst sort.
Again, resorting to name calling and judgement of things you know nothing about. I will not stoop to your level, please don't make yourself look worse by continuing silly name calling.

quote:
How dare you?
I dare as american who knows that the intent of the founding fathers was to have a government we can "alter or abolish" when it becaomes destructive to our rights, and carreer politicians on both sides are to blame for the loss of our rights.

quote:
What a pathetic loser you are Game Boy. No wonder your conservative croneys have lost the war on terror.
I'm libertain, not conservative. I believe in state rights, and believe the only things the federal government are to be invloved in are those set by the constitution. A standing military, central tresuary, intermedating state disputes and the like. If you had read the post, you'd have realized that I was saying "kick them all out" not "kick the democrates".

quote:
You have no morals, you have no values. You have no sense of right or wrong.
Er? I have a very strong sense of right and wrong. I may disagree with you on issues, but that doesn't mean that I'm the racist, baby-eating, world conquest hungry monstor you have mistakenly pictured me for.

quote:
Worst of all, you have no sense of shame.
You think that why?

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Posts: 3038 | From: State of insanity | Registered: Mar 2002  |  IP: Logged
Richard Wolf VI
SuperBlabberMouth!
Member # 4993

Icon 9 posted February 19, 2007 07:26      Profile for Richard Wolf VI   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
I dislike talking about politics, because i feel it's impolite to talk about them with people you don't know quite well, so I'll take the risk.

First of all, this "like father, like son" stuff is becoming meaningless in our times, because of the communications expanding farther than our homes and schools, so people are overcharged of information and tend to do the wrong thing in this condition.

Second, it's incorrect to say "X ideology is better than Y, because some people from Y are doing bad things". An ideology is something more profound and philosophy is there to establish which ideology is more adequate for our context in an objective way.

Third, in my point of view, any kind of extremism has brought disastrous results, so acting aggressively toward other's people ideology, without critic sense, is useless. Though I'm not centralist (I prefer blue over red), I'm pretty sure that world would work better if we realise that our freedom ends where the other one's start. Is that hard to respect?

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Posts: 1356 | From: Bogotá, Colombia | Registered: Mar 2006  |  IP: Logged
ASM65816
SuperBlabberMouth!
Member # 712

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Icon 1 posted February 19, 2007 13:38      Profile for ASM65816   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Point 1: Values vs Lying About Ones Values
quote:
February 15, 2007, 18:17
Yeah, we know your values.

(This applies only to a few people. I could count them on my fingers.)
However, we don't know your values because you lie -- your words and actions don't agree.

quote:
You have no morals, you have no values. You have no sense of right or wrong.
Long before Bush sent US troops into Iraq, Saddam had his Fedayeen (a secret police) conduct widespread campaigns of assassination and intimidation, as well as organized smuggling and other illegal efforts along Iraq's borders. They committed some of the most brutal acts while the Ba'athist regime was in power in Iraq.

Before the war in Iraq, who cried out against the atrocities committed by Saddam's regime?

  Answer: Nobody (for all practical purposes).

Of course, Saddam isn't the only government leader that piled humans in mass graves. History and current events provide several other examples. I know certain people hate America, but they haven't revealed why they avoid criticizing some very obvious perpetrators of genocide in the past 20 years.
[Confused]
 

Point 2: Size Matters
quote:
February 18, 2007, 12:42
If you murder 1 person, you're a murderer, even if the guy in the next town murdered 94 people.

[shake head]   So a country that "murders" one person has a murderous government, just the same as a government or regime that murders 300,000 or 6 million?

By that "logic", a country that kills 2.1 billion Muslims is no better or worse than a country that kills 55 Jews.

By that "logic", every country and race of people is murderous. Of course you could lie, or rationalize your way around that, maybe say certain wars only killed the people that weren't innocent.
 

Point 3: Purpose Matters
quote:
February 18, 2007, 12:42
... to point out that some other country did something worse, as if that excuses what the USA did.

Do you disagree that Saddam was an evil man with dozens of atrocities to his credit? If he was no worse than any other government official on earth, let everyone know your point of view.

The reason the US went to war in Iraq was because our government was sick and tired of everything sick and loathsome that Saddam was doing. Congress approved the Iraq war by about a 2 to 1 vote because Saddam was an evil man with a long and clear history of creating regional "instability" which threatened the well-being of people in Iraq, in the Mideast, and around the world.

Let's imagine the congressman that only cared about WMD:
quote:
Congressman: If a man kills 300,000 Muslims, why should I hold that against him? If a man is stealing billions of dollars from a humanitarian program and 25% of that money comes out of the pockets of the American taxpayer, why should I care? I don't believe that being a thoroughly evil and rampant psychopath ever justifies more than a "time-out" or a few stern warnings.
Is that is how you think officials in the Senate and House of Representatives made their decisions on the war?

As for Saddam's purpose in his actions -- there was no good intent, unless your definition of "good" includes:
  • Killing 300,000 in order to retain absolute power over a country.
  • Violating international law and UN resolutions to attain greater power.
I still don't know what "your" values are. From the way "you" compare the US to countries that "do something worse," you believe that everything is the same:
  • Killing a man who is killing 5,000 innocent people every year
    (example: US removing Saddam from power)

        is the same as
     
  • Killing a man who refuses to bow down and obey your every command.
    (example: Saddam against Iraqis)

[shake head]

Afterthought: Does anyone say stuff like:
quote:
I watch the world news and see how hundreds of thousands are killed by murderous regimes, but I'm proud that my government has done nothing but turn a blind eye.


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Once a proud programmer of Apple II's, he now spends his days and nights in cheap dives fraternizing with exotic dancers....

Posts: 1035 | From: Third rock from sun. | Registered: Mar 2001  |  IP: Logged


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