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Author Topic: Vampires?
never_ask_why333
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Icon 11 posted November 25, 2006 22:01      Profile for never_ask_why333     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
I'm sorry, but I just absolutely HAD to post this; I couldn't restrain myself any longer.

Ahem, carrying on. I am curious as to what everyone here thinks about the possibility of the existance of vampires.

Now, the thing is though, according to my extensive research, there is more than one type of probable vampire. I will give a breif overview of the four types, then leave you to decide whether you think they exist or not, and why/why not. If you do not believe in any certain type, please expand on your theories, and why you think people may have started to believe in that particular type. Haha, this should be fun.

Ok first of all, the immortal bloodsucking vampires. The type you see in the movies, you know, Dracula and such and such. The 'undead'. I'll tell you a bit about what I've learned about them:
Few people believe that they exist as truly the undead, who were once mortal then were bitten by a vampire and thus turned. A more popular belief is that it is actually a demon, or evil spirit, that has merely posessed the body for the time being.
They are of course, immortal. Also, a huge characteristic is that they MUST suck blood to sustain themselves. If not, they will perish (in other words, they are only immortal to a certain extent)

Next, there is the rumor of MORTAL bloodsucking vampires. But let me clarify: this is different than a sanguinarian ( a person who just drinks blood for the pleasure of it)!! To be a mortal vampire, there has to be a NEED for the blood. This has to do will the whole 'life-force' thing. I will not insut your intelligence by going into depth about that. Basically, a mortal vampire cannot produce enough prana (lifeforce) on their own, and therefore must drink the blood of another to aquire that. Some characterisics of such people are similar to those 'fictional' vampires. These characteristics include, but are not limited to: extensive nocturnal activity, poor circulation, photosensitivity, and pale skin (due to the photosensitivity). Most experts agree that if any type of vampire does indeed exist, that mortal vampires are the most likely.

Now, switching tracks just a bit, we will now get away from the blood drinking vampires, and move onto the 'psychic' ones.
First, the unintentional psychic vampire. This is a person--mortal or immortal-- who again, cannot make enough prana on their own. However, instead of obtaining it through blood, they skip that step entirely and more or less, psychicly draw it out of a person who is near to them at any given time. Now, to make a person an unintentional psychic vampire, this means that the person is not aware that they are draining someone of their prana when they are doing so. It just happens as the body's natural instinct to survive. 'Evidence' of this is reports from people who notice that they usually feel drained when near a certain person, but once they are away, they seem fine. Or, vice versa: a person who usually has low 'energy' feels rejuvinated when around people.

Last but not least, the intentional psychic vampire. Very much the same as an unintentional, the only difference is that they person is aware when they are taking someone's prana, and therefore do so intentionally, and also seek out 'prey'.

Well, there they are, the four 'known' types of vampires. Please tell me what you think, and why you think that. And if you disbelieve in any, please tell why you think people started to believe in them (ie how the 'rumors' got started).
I hope ya'll have fun with this.

Thanks

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I just haven't gotten
around to it yet

You can call me Eternity :)

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The Famous Druid

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Icon 1 posted November 25, 2006 23:03      Profile for The Famous Druid     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
No such thing, I'd stake my reputation on it.

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Rhonwyyn

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Icon 1 posted November 25, 2006 23:20      Profile for Rhonwyyn   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
You're right, TFD. Those myths just really suck.

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Bibo
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Icon 1 posted November 26, 2006 00:38      Profile for Bibo   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Not the bloody puns again!

They make for good movies & TV shows though.

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never_ask_why333
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Icon 1 posted November 26, 2006 00:45      Profile for never_ask_why333     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Aw, those 'bloody' (yeah, good one) puns are cute.
But still nobody has stated why they feel that way though :-/

--------------------
I haven't forgotten
and I won't forget
I just haven't gotten
around to it yet

You can call me Eternity :)

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The Famous Druid

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Icon 1 posted November 26, 2006 01:02      Profile for The Famous Druid     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
You'd have to be batty to take such things seriously.

--------------------
If you watch 'The History Of NASA' backwards, it's about a space agency that has no manned spaceflight capability, then does low-orbit flights, then lands on the Moon.

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TheMoMan
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Icon 1 posted November 26, 2006 03:38      Profile for TheMoMan         Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
TFD & Ronni___________________But there are Vampires they are called ex's and they use friend of the court to suck your life source out (cash).

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Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.


Benjamin Franklin,

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GrumpySteen

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Icon 1 posted November 26, 2006 06:33      Profile for GrumpySteen     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
never_ask_why333 wrote:
Aw, those 'bloody' (yeah, good one) puns are cute.
But still nobody has stated why they feel that way though :-/


I'm going to go out on a limb and say that most people feel that way because of the complete lack of non-anecdotal evidence of vampires having ever existed. I'll go even further out on the limb and guess that you probably won't find much of an interest in vampires among the members here (although at least one forum member appears to enjoy being bitten, but that's a completely different topic). I say that because I don't recall there ever having been a discussion of vampires here the entire time I've been around. Then again, maybe it just never came up *shrug*

Pun fests, incidentally, just happen on these forums. If you ask nicely for people not to destroy your topic with them, however, they'll often co-operate.

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TheMoMan
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Icon 1 posted November 26, 2006 08:23      Profile for TheMoMan         Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Steen_________________Some times we bloody will and others we will bandage the wound. Do tent stake count?

--------------------
Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.


Benjamin Franklin,

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Icon 1 posted November 26, 2006 08:27      Profile for The-Tech     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by The Famous Druid:
You'd have to be batty to take such things seriously.

We can always count on THFD for puns of fun.

/me realizes that at least garlic guy is safe from the blood sucking hoard ... vampires that is not the IRS

Dave

--------------------
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he sometimes throws them where they cannot be seen
--- Stephen Hawking

A fanatic is one who can't change his mind and won't change the subject -- Winston Churchill

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garlicguy

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Icon 1 posted November 26, 2006 10:18      Profile for garlicguy   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
This thread seems to be a mere reflection of a religious debate.

Vampires? *Yawn* Right up there with mummies on my list of things that don't go bump in the night.

Blood-suckers? They're everywhere.

How do I feel about Vampires? Well, let me ask you this: How do you feel about garlic?

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I don't know what I was thinking... it seemed like a good idea at the time.

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quantumfluff
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Icon 12 posted November 26, 2006 11:08      Profile for quantumfluff     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Babies are Vampires. They sleep all day and at night they suck the life from you.
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GrumpySteen

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Icon 1 posted November 26, 2006 11:44      Profile for GrumpySteen     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
They sleep all day and at night they suck the life from you.

Sounds like a girlfriend I once had...

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never_ask_why333
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Icon 1 posted November 26, 2006 15:39      Profile for never_ask_why333     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Haha, I don't mind the puns...they're cute and they make me laugh...who doesn't love that?

AS for the lack of evidence...hahaha! You have GOT to be kidding me! I may not have put much evidence in my post (because I did not want to bore you to death), but there is an overwhelming amount of evidence for the last three types listed! So much, infact, that it is nearly impossible to disbelieve!

It almost seems to me that those who DO know of a good chunk of the evidence, but still disbelieve, simply do not WANT to believe. Perhaps they just do not want to condone to the fact that mere humans are not the top of the food chain, and that we are all at risk.

Ok, well I suppose I owe it to everyone to tell them what I think, seeing as how I did post the topic.

As for the 'undead'...hmm, that's a tough one. I definately believe in demons animating corpses, thats for sure. There have been too many reported cases over the period of time (including many of those who had never even heard of the possibility, thus ruling out hoaxes) to simply ignore. All sorts of people from all over the world have reported this, including back in the day when communication was minimal. And yet they all reported the same thing, with the same characteristics. It seems too much of a coincidence to me. Now, if such reportings only started after the introduction of communication technology, I may be inclined to believe otherwise, but seeing as how it dates back to the time of Meopatamia, Neanderthals, and cavepeople...

However, as for the truly immortals that were once human...I'm not too sure. There seem to be way to many loopholes in this story. However, taking the opposite view for a moment: if these guys truly are immortal, it seems that they would have found a way to keep obviuos evidence away from us, no? So, in otherwords, I don't neccessarily believe, but I don't disbelieve, either.

As for mortal bloodsuckers who need the sustenance of prana, I believe it 100%. Now, I'm not exactly comfortable sharing why I think this on a public forum, but if you want to know more, message me and I'll gladly tell you. But to give a public answer that may be considered sufficient, lets just put it this way: I've had my own run-ins with the type, and after such, i find it hard to disbelieve.

Now as far as psychic vampires, I'm going to talk about both kinds collectively for now. I guess it all comes down to whether you believe in prana or not. Because if you do, I think it would be rather difficult to disbelieve in psychic vampires. However, I am a believer in prana, and thus psychic vampires. There is just too much concrete evidence. For example, here is something that I think everyone here can appreciate. I'm sure everyone had heard of those who attempt to create life in a laboratory, right? They seem to have all the correct ingredients, missing nothing, but yet the creation just doesn't "spring to life". In my opinion, its the prana thats missing. If could somehow harness the lifeforce, and somehow 'put' it into the 'mixture'...well I'd be willing to bet my bottom dollar that it would be a modern day Frankenstein case, to say the least.

Now I realize that a lot of what I hav said probably sounds wacky and a little 'out there', but rest assured, this isn't just some rantings and opinions of a naive teenager. If nothing else, be assured that I have not talked about anything that I am ignorant too; on the contrary, I have done atleast a few years extensive research on this topic. I would not talk about something that I merely 'hoped' to be real. And nor do i talk of cases that have few reportings. Instead, these cases which i have presented have been ones that have occured multiple times, in multiple ways, and most of which have been thoroughly investigated. And mind you, the ones sent to investigate these cases were often close-minded religious people who were not at all partial, and did not tolerate any nonsense. But, low and behold, many a time such people were left absolutely baffled, and also questioning their own philosophies on life.

Anyway, just some things to think about. [crazy]

Oh and and I love garlic, by the way...lol

Keep it coming. I am thoroughly enjoying this!

--------------------
I haven't forgotten
and I won't forget
I just haven't gotten
around to it yet

You can call me Eternity :)

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never_ask_why333
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Icon 1 posted November 26, 2006 15:45      Profile for never_ask_why333     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Ugh, that last reply was full of typos...sorry about that. I forgot to read it before I posted it.

But trust me, I know that it is supposed to be "Mesopatamia", and I know the difference between 'to' and 'too'. Hahaha, and it appears I left some words out, and some apostrophes.

Oh well, sorry about that. [Roll Eyes]

--------------------
I haven't forgotten
and I won't forget
I just haven't gotten
around to it yet

You can call me Eternity :)

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uilleann
Discontinued


Icon 1 posted November 26, 2006 16:28            Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
You mean Mesopotamia?

And you do realise that you can edit posts? :)

And ... so that's what prana is. Prana is also an artist, but I idly wondered if it was s misspelling of Praha (Tony Rapacioli's artist name), but no, someone else. Never knew what it meant.

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The Famous Druid

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Icon 1 posted November 26, 2006 16:31      Profile for The Famous Druid     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by never_ask_why333:
Haha, I don't mind the puns...they're cute and they make me laugh...

Fangs for the vote of approval.
 . .
  \
-w-

--------------------
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never_ask_why333
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Icon 1 posted November 26, 2006 16:34      Profile for never_ask_why333     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Haha, yeah thats what I meant. Funny, actually...thats what i had typed first, but then I changed it while thinking "no...I would have remembered if it had 'pot' in it, lol". I admit it, you caught me [Embarrassed]

I had no idea you could edit posts. I'm a noob, can ya tell?

Haha yes, that is prana. Psi, chi, lifeforce, fundamnetal elixir of life....prana. A wonderful thing, though?

ALso, just because I want to say so...I love having yahoo. I know the moment someone replies to one of my posts (it has little pop-ups).

Anyway, good day to everyone...I'm in rather high spirits, if you cannot tell.

Haha, these puns get better and better. Do ya'll practice them or something?

--------------------
I haven't forgotten
and I won't forget
I just haven't gotten
around to it yet

You can call me Eternity :)

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maximile

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Icon 1 posted November 26, 2006 16:51      Profile for maximile   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by never_ask_why333:
As for mortal bloodsuckers who need the sustenance of prana, I believe it 100%. Now, I'm not exactly comfortable sharing why I think this on a public forum, but if you want to know more, message me and I'll gladly tell you. But to give a public answer that may be considered sufficient, lets just put it this way: I've had my own run-ins with the type, and after such, i find it hard to disbelieve.

I'll agree that there are some people for whom drinking blood has medical benefits which contribute to their survival. And there are people that can't stand being out in sunlight for long.

But I'm not going to be able to believe that it's due to a deficiency of prana, or anything other "inexplicable" reason. They're just medical conditions, which can be explained through science.

Not that this takes anything away from it. I think it's very cool that some people choose to let/drink blood; it's a cool aesthetic and a reasonable lifestyle choice. But it's not science, it's just fun. Except for the medical conditions, which probably aren't fun, but they're still nothing to do with inexplicable forces or energies.

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Callipygous
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Icon 1 posted November 26, 2006 16:56      Profile for Callipygous     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Most of the people here have a scientific turn of mind so phenomena that are not reproducible or observable are deemed to have no evidence other than anecdotal. Speculation about some invisible and non-measurable force called prana falls into the same category. If you want to know why vampire stories and myths are widespread, I cannot give a definite answer as it's rather like asking why most people seem to like Italian food, and while I can answer for myself it is not easy to answer for everyone. However I would hazard that vampire stories are popular for the same reason that other horror or ghost stories appeal; they address deep primitive fears that most people share. However the existence of these fears is no evidence that the thing feared itself exists, otherwise many children would have found monsters under their beds. A psychologist might be able to give you a more complete answer.

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never_ask_why333
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Icon 1 posted November 26, 2006 17:05      Profile for never_ask_why333     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Oh, please do not misunderstand me. I am not trying in any way to make people believe in vampires. Infact, I realize as you have said, that most people here have a scientific outlook on things. Therefore, I thought is would be most interesting to bring a debatable, not-so-scientific topic on here. I assumed that almost nobody on here would believe, but I was curious to see if anyone had any reason not to, other than just opinion.

I love that people can be independant, and that they have their own unique and personal opinions. I just wanted to surface those.

But as always, your imput is appreciated [Smile]

--------------------
I haven't forgotten
and I won't forget
I just haven't gotten
around to it yet

You can call me Eternity :)

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The Famous Druid

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Icon 1 posted November 26, 2006 17:47      Profile for The Famous Druid     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by maximile:
I think it's very cool that some people choose to let/drink blood; it's a cool aesthetic and a reasonable lifestyle choice. But it's not science, it's just fun.

In this age of blood-borne diseases (AIDS, the various hepatitii, CJD, and some more 'exotic' nasties) anyone who thinks drinking blood is 'just fun' could be making a grave error.

--------------------
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zesovietrussian
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Icon 1 posted November 26, 2006 19:10      Profile for zesovietrussian     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
No, vampires don't exist, it's a myth, and whoever believes in it is nothing but a complete and utter idiot. Now if you'll excuse me, I need to get back to my drink, it's starting to clot.
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Xanthine

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Icon 1 posted November 26, 2006 19:36      Profile for Xanthine     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
zsr, you may not realize it but that post brought back a rather disgusting memory. Be careful about drinking blood kids, not all tummies can handle it.

quote:
Originally posted by never_ask_why333:
I'm sure everyone had heard of those who attempt to create life in a laboratory, right? They seem to have all the correct ingredients, missing nothing, but yet the creation just doesn't "spring to life".

1) The existence of prana/ki/whatever you wnat to call a life force has been postulated for years. In biochemistry, back in the 19th century, there were two schools of thought. The Germans were of the opinion that life is based off of chemical reactions and you can isolate the components and throw it all in a tube and it'll work just fine. The French were convinced that there was some sort of mysterious life force at work in these reactions and they wouldn't happen outside a cell. Well, the Germans purified a protein and did an in vitro assay and showed that a biochemical reaction can happen in a jar. But the French theory has not been disproven. It has not been proven either. However, the German school of thought is what biochemists have been working with ever since that first prep. It seems to be doing the job too.

2) While the end goal of biochemistry is to recreate a lviing cell out of purified and/or synthesized compenents, no one has actually tried to make a synthetic cell (AFAIK...and as a biochemist I'm pretty sure I would have heard about such an attempt...you'd have to be out of your head to even try right now; there's so much we don't understand it's not even funny). They've tried to replicate early Earth conditions and figure out how some of our more complicated molecules could have been pieced together in a cell-free environment, but they have not tried to make a primitive cell. That said, people are trying. Last year I attended a seminar given by a guy from Harvard who is working on a Frankencell. He's got a long way to go, but, if you're interested, here's his lab's game plan. And believe me, he's got a long wya to go before this becomes a reality. One of the key components to his system isn't even near up to snuff yet. Pretty pie in the sky if you ask me, but it might answer the prana question. Or might not. And yes, I think he's out of his head.

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And it's one, two, three / On the wrong side of the lee / What were you meant for? / What were you meant for?
- The Decemberists

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GrumpySteen

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Icon 1 posted November 26, 2006 19:44      Profile for GrumpySteen     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
never_ask_why333 wrote:
AS for the lack of evidence...hahaha! You have GOT to be kidding me!

I said non-anecdotal evidence, which is very different from anecdotal evidence.

All sorts of people from all over the world have reported this, including back in the day when communication was minimal. And yet they all reported the same thing, with the same characteristics. It seems too much of a coincidence to me.

For a very long time, people thought maggots automatically sprang out of dead bodies because they knew nothing of flies laying eggs. The belief was quite wide spread because everyone saw the same results of leaving a corpse out in the open. Very consistent anecdotal evidence, but a very wrong conclusion that was shared by many cultures that never communicated.

It doesn't matter how many people come to the wrong conclusion, the conclusion is still wrong. That's why anecdotal evidence alone is generally not accepted as real proof.

That said, I'm not saying vampires do or do not exist (I have my own weird ass reasons for not detailing my beliefs). I'm simply saying that there isn't any non-anecdotal evidence to show that they do (outside of a couple of previously mentioned medical conditions that could be interpreted as).

There is just too much concrete evidence. For example, here is something that I think everyone here can appreciate. I'm sure everyone had heard of those who attempt to create life in a laboratory, right? They seem to have all the correct ingredients, missing nothing, but yet the creation just doesn't "spring to life". In my opinion, its the prana thats missing.

It's very well known that we haven't created life in a laboratory yet, but even if it is because we cannot imbue the inanimate with prana, it does not prove the existence of a creature that can drain this force from another creature. That's a bit like saying we can't create gold*, so there must be a creature that survives by eating gold. It just doesn't follow.

Once again, there isn't any non-anecdotal evidence that I've ever heard of. Feel free to provide a reference.

seeing as how it dates back to the time of Meopatamia, Neanderthals, and cavepeople...

I missed the vampire cave drawings, but I really would love to see these. Can you find a link?


*note for the nitpicky: okay, so we can create gold with a gamma ray source and the right mercury isotope. I couldn't come up with a better example off the top of my head [Razz]

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