homeGeek CultureWebstoreeCards!Forums!Joy of Tech!AY2K!webcam

The Geek Culture Forums


Post New Topic  New Poll  Post A Reply
my profile | directory login | | search | faq | forum home
  next oldest topic   next newest topic
» The Geek Culture Forums   » News, Reviews, Views!   » Politics/Religion/Current Affairs   » Fresh perspectives anyone? (Page 1)

 - UBBFriend: Email this page to someone!  
This topic comprises 6 pages: 1  2  3  4  5  6 
 
Author Topic: Fresh perspectives anyone?
Callipygous
BlabberMouth, a Blabber Odyssey
Member # 2071

Member Rated:
4
Icon 1 posted November 11, 2006 19:08      Profile for Callipygous     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
As you know GWB wants ideas on how to get this rather tickly little problem in Iraq settled. This was of course a shrewd political move on his part, as he not only knows that he hasn't a clue, but also that the Democrats haven't got the foggiest, so this way at least he can try to share the blame around. But we want to rise above all that factional stuff, cast aside all cynicism, and seeing as how the members of this forum are bright, original, and creative thinkers, maybe we can offer the Pres some real honest to goodness fresh sparkling new perspectives. The problem as I see it is that there don't seem to be too many options.

1. The "cut and run" option. We do just that, all the lives lost in this conflict are completely wasted, Iraq descends into even more chaos, the militant Islamists are triumphant and all those terrorists trained in the Iraq can now go and cause havoc all over the rest of the world. hmmm.... not a particularly attractive option. So how about

2. We carry on as at present, and things continue on their current trajectory of constant deterioration. More and more lives get lost, and the small residual amount of goodwill to the occupying forces disappears, leaving our troops unable to even hold the line, and then we know we are beat and decide to go to solution 1. This is the Vietnam option, but hmmm..... that seems even worse

3. We try new tactics, except I haven't actually heard anything much in the way of new ideas. The best I have heard came from the ex ambassador to Washington, Sir Christopher Mayer, who suggested the chances of getting the political situation in Iraq stabilised would be greatly improved If Iraq's neighbours especially Iran and Syria were part of, and committed to the process. Richard Perle, the neocon, was on the radio at the same time and immediately rejected the idea, as up to now the Bush administration has taken a principled position of not negotiating with "evil" regimes. Nonetheless this does appear to me to be a better option than 1 or 2.

Has anyone else here got any other creative and original ideas that are better than options 1 or 2? Nuking Iraq doesn't count!

--------------------
"Knowledge is Power. France is Bacon" - Milton

Posts: 2922 | From: Brighton - UK | Registered: Mar 2003  |  IP: Logged
The Famous Druid

Gold Hearted SuperFan!
Member # 1769

Member Rated:
4
Icon 1 posted November 11, 2006 23:30      Profile for The Famous Druid     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
How about...

1. An abject apology for invading Iraq.

2. Immediate war-crimes trials, followed by putting Bush, Cheney, and Rumsfeld on the same gallows as Saddam.

3. Withdrawal of current occupying forces, to be replaced with a genuine UN force composed entirely of countries which opposed the invasion, with a strict 2 year timetable for withdrawal.

The above should take the wind out of the sails of the jihadis and genuine 'resistance' fighters, and give the ordinary Iraqis a reasonable chance to fix the mess we made.

[edit] - oh, how could I have forgotten? The invitation list at (2.) above should also include Tony the Bliar and little Johnnie Howard.

--------------------
If you watch 'The History Of NASA' backwards, it's about a space agency that has no manned spaceflight capability, then does low-orbit flights, then lands on the Moon.

Posts: 10680 | From: Melbourne, Australia | Registered: Oct 2002  |  IP: Logged
Ashitaka

SuperFan!
Member # 4924

Member Rated:
4
Icon 1 posted November 12, 2006 01:17      Profile for Ashitaka     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by The Famous Druid:


2. Immediate war-crimes trials, followed by putting Bush, Cheney, and Rumsfeld on the same gallows as Saddam.


Even though the US has capital punishment, and that Texas executes more thatn any other state, We do not have capital punishment for wealthy people. We only execute the poor and mentally retarded, and while Bush may qualify for the latter, both are required.

--------------------
"If they're not gonna make a distinction between Muslims and violent extremists, then why should I take the time to distinguish between decent, fearful white people and racists?"

-Assif Mandvi

Posts: 3089 | From: Switzerland | Registered: Feb 2006  |  IP: Logged
Callipygous
BlabberMouth, a Blabber Odyssey
Member # 2071

Member Rated:
4
Icon 1 posted November 12, 2006 03:18      Profile for Callipygous     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
In our dreams Druid, in our dreams... [Frown]

--------------------
"Knowledge is Power. France is Bacon" - Milton

Posts: 2922 | From: Brighton - UK | Registered: Mar 2003  |  IP: Logged
sosumi
Uber Geek
Member # 1106

Member Rated:
5
Icon 1 posted November 12, 2006 05:15      Profile for sosumi   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Reasons to be angry: part three. (Iraq for Sale - 1:15 hour film)
Posts: 845 | From: Boston | Registered: Feb 2002  |  IP: Logged
Colonel Panic
BlabberMouth, the Next Generation
Member # 1200

Icon 1 posted November 12, 2006 17:31      Profile for Colonel Panic         Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Hanging the big four would have many benefits, particularly if they shared the same gallows as Saddam. this should not be left out of the options.

If the Iraqi people wanted freedom and democracy they would have fought for it. They have not. Therefore any death in combat from here on out is unacceptable; it's like Vietnam, we knew we couldn't win the thing and wanted out in 69, yet we wated and let other good soldiers die.

The deaths of soliders in Iraq are on Bush's head first, Rummy and Cheny's next, and the right in general next.

Redeploy fast to Afghanistan and secure that nation. See if Iraq builds any infrastructure and if they do, turn it to rubbble -- from a distance.

Anybody dieing in Iraq from here on out is a waste.

Honor the solider; either commit to winning or withdraw.

CP

--------------------
Free! Free at last!

Posts: 1809 | From: Glacier Melt, USA | Registered: Mar 2002  |  IP: Logged
ASM65816
SuperBlabberMouth!
Member # 712

Member Rated:
2
Icon 1 posted November 12, 2006 18:33      Profile for ASM65816   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally Posted by The Famous Druid:

Immediate war-crimes trials, followed by putting Bush, Cheney, Rumsfeld, Tony Blair, and John Howard on the same gallows as Saddam.

So he approves of hanging, but does he really think Saddam should hang?

Of course, he's probably believed for many years that Bush, Cheney, Rumsfeld, Tony Blair, and John Howard should hang.

For someone with such a strong desire to deliver punishment, it seems odd that he's voiced little or no concern for punishing the men who sent suicide bombers into Jordanian weddings, had construction workers and truck drivers beheaded, destroyed water treatment, oil pumping, and electrical distribution facilities, executed people for appearing to belong to a different religious sect, and have used car bombs to kill thousands of Iraqis going about their daily lives -- none of the people or leaders responsible for these acts were American, British, or Australian.

For the Janjaweed that have killed thousands in Sudan, he's shown no desire to put their leaders on trial.

He doesn't want justice, but instead "revenge" against those he despises. Best case, he's a hypocrite consumed with hate.

--------------------
Once a proud programmer of Apple II's, he now spends his days and nights in cheap dives fraternizing with exotic dancers....

Posts: 1035 | From: Third rock from sun. | Registered: Mar 2001  |  IP: Logged
The Famous Druid

Gold Hearted SuperFan!
Member # 1769

Member Rated:
4
Icon 1 posted November 12, 2006 19:05      Profile for The Famous Druid     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Who fed that dog cabbage?

--------------------
If you watch 'The History Of NASA' backwards, it's about a space agency that has no manned spaceflight capability, then does low-orbit flights, then lands on the Moon.

Posts: 10680 | From: Melbourne, Australia | Registered: Oct 2002  |  IP: Logged
garlicguy

Member # 3166

Member Rated:
5
Icon 1 posted November 12, 2006 19:34      Profile for garlicguy   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
I cannot tell a lie, Druid - t'was I...

 -

--------------------
I don't know what I was thinking... it seemed like a good idea at the time.

Posts: 3752 | From: Pluto, no matter what you call it, is still my home. | Registered: Dec 2004  |  IP: Logged
dragonman97

SuperFan!
Member # 780

Member Rated:
4
Icon 1 posted November 12, 2006 22:16      Profile for dragonman97   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Cally: The replacement to Rummy is already talking about option 3... dunno what'll happen, but it is an idea being considered.

--------------------
There are three things you can be sure of in life: Death, taxes, and reading about fake illnesses online...

Posts: 9332 | From: Westchester County, New York | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
The Famous Druid

Gold Hearted SuperFan!
Member # 1769

Member Rated:
4
Icon 1 posted November 12, 2006 22:23      Profile for The Famous Druid     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by dragonman97:
Cally: The replacement to Rummy is already talking about option 3... dunno what'll happen, but it is an idea being considered.

That would be hilarious: GWB and Cheney going cap-in-hand to the 'axis of evil' saying "Please, get us out of this mess".

--------------------
If you watch 'The History Of NASA' backwards, it's about a space agency that has no manned spaceflight capability, then does low-orbit flights, then lands on the Moon.

Posts: 10680 | From: Melbourne, Australia | Registered: Oct 2002  |  IP: Logged
dragonman97

SuperFan!
Member # 780

Member Rated:
4
Icon 1 posted November 12, 2006 22:42      Profile for dragonman97   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by The Famous Druid:
quote:
Originally posted by dragonman97:
Cally: The replacement to Rummy is already talking about option 3... dunno what'll happen, but it is an idea being considered.

That would be hilarious: GWB and Cheney going cap-in-hand to the 'axis of evil' saying "Please, get us out of this mess".
I need sleep now, but I thought I'd just drop this link here:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/6141978.stm

--------------------
There are three things you can be sure of in life: Death, taxes, and reading about fake illnesses online...

Posts: 9332 | From: Westchester County, New York | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
Willhh1
Maximum Newbie
Member # 3408

Rate Member
Icon 1 posted November 13, 2006 04:13      Profile for Willhh1         Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
I think it will be #3. Having been there, I expect the commission to eventually come up with the same conclusion I came up with a year ago. Let the Iraqis decide, with the coalition as helpers.

This will take more $, but I would rather spend more money than lives. It will also require some changes in how the US Army is arranged, since most of our troops over there now are doing the job of the Iraqi Army and police, rather than letting them do the job, with us as embedded advisors. That will require about 10,000 advisors - the Army only has around 3,000 now.

The other thing I expect the commission to find (that was glaringly obvious over there) is that the rest of the US government, the UN, and the international community need to step up to the plate. Not sure if that will happen.

It was obvious to me that Rumsfeld and Chaney were looking thru rose-colored glasses. Glad to see at least one of them go. The US electorate is not too tolerant of incompetence.

Posts: 12 | From: Baltimore, MD | Registered: Jan 2005  |  IP: Logged
Callipygous
BlabberMouth, a Blabber Odyssey
Member # 2071

Member Rated:
4
Icon 1 posted November 13, 2006 05:03      Profile for Callipygous     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by dragonman97:
Cally: The replacement to Rummy is already talking about option 3... dunno what'll happen, but it is an idea being considered.

This is very encouraging news, as it indicates that the neoconservatives may be beginning to lose some of their influence, and perhaps politics will even start becoming more pragmatic at long last. I am dubious as to whether the US will be prepared to offer either country a strong enough positive inducement to participate, especially as both must clearly be enjoying the US's discomfiture very greatly. I suspect that they may just give them a pompous lecture, and then give up.

Druid and CP If you are having that lynching party, please don't forget the invite for our PM. He certainly deserves a place up there too! [Wink]

--------------------
"Knowledge is Power. France is Bacon" - Milton

Posts: 2922 | From: Brighton - UK | Registered: Mar 2003  |  IP: Logged
chromatic
Geek
Member # 164

Member Rated:
5
Icon 13 posted November 13, 2006 10:37      Profile for chromatic   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by The Famous Druid:
How about...

2. Immediate war-crimes trials, followed by putting Bush, Cheney, and Rumsfeld on the same gallows as Saddam.

What, in Australia, where there are plenty of Kangaroos?
Posts: 223 | From: Squeaky First Geek House | Registered: Jan 2000  |  IP: Logged
The Famous Druid

Gold Hearted SuperFan!
Member # 1769

Member Rated:
4
Icon 1 posted November 13, 2006 10:41      Profile for The Famous Druid     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Callipygous:
Druid and CP If you are having that lynching party, please don't forget the invite for our PM. He certainly deserves a place up there too! [Wink]

Oh no, not a lynching, that would be wrong.

We'll have a properly constituted Military Commission, where the prosecution will say "Someone told us that someone told them that you did (or said) something bad. For National Security reasons, we won't tell you who told us, or what you're supposed to have done, or when you're supposed to have done it. Now - present your defence".

Like in the old Westerns, the carpenters will be building the gallows out the front while this is going on.

And yes, the Bliar and little johnnie are invited.

--------------------
If you watch 'The History Of NASA' backwards, it's about a space agency that has no manned spaceflight capability, then does low-orbit flights, then lands on the Moon.

Posts: 10680 | From: Melbourne, Australia | Registered: Oct 2002  |  IP: Logged
ASM65816
SuperBlabberMouth!
Member # 712

Member Rated:
2
Icon 2 posted November 13, 2006 11:24      Profile for ASM65816   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
The Associated Press:   11/13/2006   12:45:25 EST

Syria is believed to be aiding the Sunni insurgency responsible for the deaths of most U.S. soldiers and tens of thousands of Iraqi Shiites. The Iranians are deeply involved in aiding Shiite militias, whose death squads are carrying out a campaign of revenge killings against Sunnis.

At least 89 journalists have been killed in Iraq since hostilities began in March 2003, according to an Associated Press count based on statistics kept by the New York-based Committee to Protect Journalists.

Another 35 media employees, including drivers, interpreters and guards, have been killed, all but one of them Iraqi.

Have you wondered what Iraq would be like if Iran wasn't "aiding" the death squads?

What would Iraq be like if Syria did not aid "insurgents" that have killed tens of thousands of Iraqis?

Are journalists being killed by "insurgents" because news is the enemy of the people?

[ohwell]   It's peculiar how there's no call to hang any Iranian or Syrian.

--------------------
Once a proud programmer of Apple II's, he now spends his days and nights in cheap dives fraternizing with exotic dancers....

Posts: 1035 | From: Third rock from sun. | Registered: Mar 2001  |  IP: Logged
garlicguy

Member # 3166

Member Rated:
5
Icon 1 posted November 13, 2006 11:33      Profile for garlicguy   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by ASM65816:
[ohwell]   It's peculiar how there's no call to hang any Iranian or Syrian.

Since you mentioned it, ASM, this IS a rather peculiar place, isn't it?

--------------------
I don't know what I was thinking... it seemed like a good idea at the time.

Posts: 3752 | From: Pluto, no matter what you call it, is still my home. | Registered: Dec 2004  |  IP: Logged
Mel
Alpha Geek
Member # 3553

Member Rated:
5
Icon 1 posted November 13, 2006 13:09      Profile for Mel     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
We should just bring back the coliseum fights and have Bush and Saddam duke it out to the death. Then when there is a winner, we let him challenge a lion with his bare hands! Political gladiators - yay!
Posts: 309 | From: Canada | Registered: Mar 2005  |  IP: Logged
Ashitaka

SuperFan!
Member # 4924

Member Rated:
4
Icon 1 posted November 13, 2006 13:24      Profile for Ashitaka     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
There is an old bit of wisdom that goes something like: "There would be alot fewer wars if wars were fought by the politicians that started them."


I want everybody on both sides responsible for this war to sit down at a large round table. One by one going around the table they should take a revolver with one bullet in it, spin the cylinder, put the gun to thier head and pull the trigger. They should go in circles until one is left sitting at the table and is declared the winner.

--------------------
"If they're not gonna make a distinction between Muslims and violent extremists, then why should I take the time to distinguish between decent, fearful white people and racists?"

-Assif Mandvi

Posts: 3089 | From: Switzerland | Registered: Feb 2006  |  IP: Logged
Callipygous
BlabberMouth, a Blabber Odyssey
Member # 2071

Member Rated:
4
Icon 1 posted November 13, 2006 13:33      Profile for Callipygous     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
or as we say here don't kill ASM until he's killed 10,000 Indians or something...

--------------------
"Knowledge is Power. France is Bacon" - Milton

Posts: 2922 | From: Brighton - UK | Registered: Mar 2003  |  IP: Logged
The Famous Druid

Gold Hearted SuperFan!
Member # 1769

Member Rated:
4
Icon 1 posted November 13, 2006 15:51      Profile for The Famous Druid     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Wise words Calli, but you've probably made ASM angrier than a wooden spoon at a spelling-bee.

--------------------
If you watch 'The History Of NASA' backwards, it's about a space agency that has no manned spaceflight capability, then does low-orbit flights, then lands on the Moon.

Posts: 10680 | From: Melbourne, Australia | Registered: Oct 2002  |  IP: Logged
ASM65816
SuperBlabberMouth!
Member # 712

Member Rated:
2
Icon 1 posted November 13, 2006 18:57      Profile for ASM65816   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
November 11, 2006 23:30
Immediate war-crimes trials, followed by putting Bush, Cheney, Rumsfeld, Tony Blair, and John Howard on the same gallows as Saddam.

November 13, 2006 15:51
Wise words Calli, but you've probably made ASM angrier than a wooden spoon at a spelling-bee.

[ohwell]   Angry at Calli? No.   More like disappointed sometimes, especially when I'm certain that he knows the scientific method and more.

FWIW: If someone in this thread had written
quote:
... followed by putting Bush, Muqtada al-Sadr, Cheney, Mahmoud Ahmadinejad, Rumsfeld, Osama bin Laden, Tony Blair, Kim Jong-Il, and John Howard on the same gallows as Saddam.
At least I'd think he read some credible news instead of just fanatical propaganda.

--------------------
Once a proud programmer of Apple II's, he now spends his days and nights in cheap dives fraternizing with exotic dancers....

Posts: 1035 | From: Third rock from sun. | Registered: Mar 2001  |  IP: Logged
The Famous Druid

Gold Hearted SuperFan!
Member # 1769

Member Rated:
4
Icon 1 posted November 13, 2006 19:10      Profile for The Famous Druid     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Hee hee hee...

This is more fun than a three-legged goat with an electric guitar !

--------------------
If you watch 'The History Of NASA' backwards, it's about a space agency that has no manned spaceflight capability, then does low-orbit flights, then lands on the Moon.

Posts: 10680 | From: Melbourne, Australia | Registered: Oct 2002  |  IP: Logged
nerdwithnofriends
Uber Geek
Member # 3773

Icon 8 posted November 13, 2006 19:25      Profile for nerdwithnofriends     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
I'm glad we can all act like adults here [Mad]

--------------------
"The Buddha, the Godhead, resides quite as comfortably in the circuits of a digital computer or the gears of a cycle transmission as he does at the top of a mountain or in the petals of a flower." - Robert M. Pirsig

Posts: 948 | Registered: Mar 2005  |  IP: Logged


All times are Eastern Time
This topic comprises 6 pages: 1  2  3  4  5  6 
 
Post New Topic  New Poll  Post A Reply Close Topic    Move Topic    Delete Topic next oldest topic   next newest topic
 - Printer-friendly view of this topic
Hop To:

Contact Us | Geek Culture Home Page

2015 Geek Culture

Powered by Infopop Corporation
UBB.classicTM 6.4.0


homeGeek CultureWebstoreeCards!Forums!Joy of Tech!AY2K!webcam