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Author Topic: Death by hanging
TMBWITW,PB

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Icon 1 posted November 07, 2006 15:25      Profile for TMBWITW,PB     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
I'm kind of surprised no one has posted about this already. Saddam Hussein's trial is over. He was convicted of crimes against humanity and sentenced to death by hanging. Naturally the appeal has already started, but people are expecting the execution to take place sometime in the spring.

In general I think the death penalty is a bad idea, but it's probably justified in this case. However, hanging? I guess it's a matter of perspective since I'm told they are a common method of execution in Iraq, but it seems so lynch-mob as a method. Not to mention less humane than some other options.

Any opinions on this whole thing?

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Serenak

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Icon 1 posted November 07, 2006 15:51      Profile for Serenak     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
There is "hanging" and there is "hanging"

The modern "sudden drop" neck breaking "hanging" technique is generally considered to be pretty quick and humane...

The old style of "hanging by the neck until you be dead" meant that quite literally. That is the victim was hoisted up via the noose and left to strangle slowly over several minutes... hence the tales of various folk heroes being "rescued" from the noose and the fact that (in England at least) those sentenced to hang would often pay for their friends and associates (or just anyone actually) to hang onto their legs to help expedite their end...

I am not a huge fan of the death sentence... can't really say sorry if you got it wrong can you?

But if you have to excersice the ultimate sanction?

Well - for me the person sentenced should have the final choice... Hanging, injection, drink and pills OD, poison chalice, shot, jump off a high place, bath and razor blades, whatever route they want to take...

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CommanderShroom
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Icon 1 posted November 07, 2006 17:08      Profile for CommanderShroom     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
If I am ever given the death sentence, I would like to die from old age. [Wink]

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GrumpySteen

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Icon 1 posted November 07, 2006 17:54      Profile for GrumpySteen     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Got it. Now we just have to figure out how to give you the gene that causes progeria...

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spungo
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Icon 1 posted November 07, 2006 18:21      Profile for spungo     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
So, if the punishment for causing the deaths of thousands of Iraqis is hanging, when's the court case gonna start for Dubbya?

Can anyone say 'victor's justice'?

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The Famous Druid

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Icon 1 posted November 07, 2006 18:22      Profile for The Famous Druid     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by spungo:
So, if the punishment for causing the deaths of thousands of Iraqis is hanging, when's the court case gonna start for Dubbya?

Tomorrow ?

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garlicguy

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Icon 1 posted November 07, 2006 19:09      Profile for garlicguy   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Where is that damned rope? I know I had a substantial rope around here someplace. Rats probably made off with it - plenty of them around these days ....  -

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TMBWITW,PB

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Icon 1 posted November 07, 2006 19:41      Profile for TMBWITW,PB     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by spungo:
So, if the punishment for causing the deaths of thousands of Iraqis is hanging, when's the court case gonna start for Dubbya?

Can anyone say 'victor's justice'?

One hopes as soon as the Dems win Congress.

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Xanthine

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Icon 1 posted November 07, 2006 21:52      Profile for Xanthine     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by garlicguy:
Where is that damned rope? I know I had a substantial rope around here someplace. Rats probably made off with it - plenty of them around these days ....  -

Here. Sorry. I went climbing.

Can you stop shooting at me now? Please??

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Ashitaka

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Icon 1 posted November 07, 2006 22:55      Profile for Ashitaka     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
I just thought that it was an amazing coincidence (spelling?) that Saddam recieved his verdict just before the US elections. Makes me wonder how sort of a rope we have this independant Iraqi goverment on.

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Callipygous
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Icon 1 posted November 08, 2006 01:09      Profile for Callipygous     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
One of the arguments against the death penalty is that there is no provably humane method of execution, even lethal injection is problematic. Certainly if I had to make a choice I would opt for hanging, rather than the electric chair, which seems even more barbarous. But you Americans do love your gadgets! [Wink]

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Stereo

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Icon 1 posted November 08, 2006 07:25      Profile for Stereo     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
I guess guillotine was humane: when well maintained, the blade chops the head in one shot, and even if the brain survives a few second, I doubt the owner is conscious.

But I think a better sentence would be to have Saddam join Irak's police. (Low ranking, with no possibility of raising in the hierarchy, of course.) This way, he would help clean up the mess, and would still have a short life expectancy. [Big Grin]

Ok, joking aside, the way Saddam was removed threw the country in a civil war with way worse public security than when he was in power. For the little I know about the local history, Irak is an "artificial" country, one whose border were decided by another country without regard for the nations living there. So I say: split the country back, and then let them decided what they want. Oh, and help them rebuild. Spend as much to build roads, schools, hospitals and such as was spent invading them. This is the only way (IMNSHO) to avoid terrorism spread its roots. (More than it already has, anyway.)

As for Saddam, send him before an international court, and get him life imprisonment somewhere else than in Irak. It seems any Irakian court can only serve revenge rather than justice.

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GrumpySteen

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Icon 1 posted November 08, 2006 07:36      Profile for GrumpySteen     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Callipygous wrote:
One of the arguments against the death penalty is that there is no provably humane method of execution

Sure there is. To prove it is humane, you would have to arrange it so that all brain function is completely disrupted in a time period that is too short for any awareness of damage to take place. This prevents any possibility of suffering. This can be easily accomplished by the use of a fairly large explosive charge.

I didn't say it wasn't messy.

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JulioC
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Icon 1 posted November 08, 2006 07:48      Profile for JulioC     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
He deserves it.

Sadly, I wonder why it took 3 US presidents for one to have the balls to correct one of the West's biggest mistakes in the
Middle East.

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Callipygous
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Icon 1 posted November 08, 2006 08:09      Profile for Callipygous     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Stereo is right. Iraq is an artificial country that has been held together by a brutal dictatorship, very like Yugoslavia during Tito's time. Its subsequent history makes me unsure whether splitting Iraq up will answer more problems than it causes.

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Xanthine

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Icon 1 posted November 08, 2006 08:23      Profile for Xanthine     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Y'know, I've been musing over that same thought for some time now. Is there a reason why Iraq shouldn't partition?

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dragonman97

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Icon 1 posted November 08, 2006 08:43      Profile for dragonman97   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Xanthine:
Y'know, I've been musing over that same thought for some time now. Is there a reason why Iraq shouldn't partition?

Yes...because maybe one of the parts would be willing to negotiate with W/Cheney/Halliburton about oil...

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maximile

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Icon 1 posted November 08, 2006 09:21      Profile for maximile   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Stereo:
I guess guillotine was humane: when well maintained, the blade chops the head in one shot, and even if the brain survives a few second, I doubt the owner is conscious.

I'd have thought that, but apparently not. New Scientist magazine, which I think is pretty well-respected, did a piece about the experiments performed on people who had just been guillotined. The head (person?) was asked questions, and could blink responses for something like twenty seconds after the event. They then went on to talk about how some people used to catapult severed heads up into the air to give the person the feeling of flying up to heaven for the last few seconds of their life.

There's probably something on the internet about this, but it sounds so much like an urban myth that I didn't look. But I'm pretty sure it wasn't April the first when I read it, and I don't think New Scientist would mess around like that. Feel free to tell me I'm a gullible fool for believing that. (Though I hear that they're taking the word "gullible" out of the dictionary.)

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Ashitaka

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Icon 1 posted November 08, 2006 10:34      Profile for Ashitaka     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Steen:
Callipygous wrote:
One of the arguments against the death penalty is that there is no provably humane method of execution

Sure there is. To prove it is humane, you would have to arrange it so that all brain function is completely disrupted in a time period that is too short for any awareness of damage to take place. This prevents any possibility of suffering. This can be easily accomplished by the use of a fairly large explosive charge.

I didn't say it wasn't messy.

You don't need a large Explosive device. A gernade duct taped to the back of the neck should do. Just put them in a room and pull the pin with some kite string.

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The Famous Druid

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Icon 1 posted November 08, 2006 11:46      Profile for The Famous Druid     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Xanthine:
Y'know, I've been musing over that same thought for some time now. Is there a reason why Iraq shouldn't partition?

Yes, Iraq s an 'artificial' country, with borders set by the victorious powers after WW 1.

Now if we let Iraq split into 3 countries, Kurdistan in the North, Sunni-stan and Shiite-stan in the South, that could create problems for the West.

For a start, Turkey (a NATO country) wouldn't be happy with an independent Kurdistan, as most of the rest of 'real' Kurdistan is currently controlled by ... you guessed it ... Turkey. The Turks have been ruthlessly suppressing the Kurdish independence movement for quite some time.

Shiite-stan (for want of a better name) would be likely to turn into a close ally of Iran, which could present a problem or 2 for the rest of the world. Imagine if Iran controlled all that oil...

And Sunni-stan, well, they'd have a large stretch of desert with no oil, which may well struggle to sustain the population. If it did, they'd be poor, and mightily pissed-off at those who put them in that position.

Not a very rosy picture, but it may be the best we can salvage from the sticky mess GBW and his sycophants in London and Canberra have got us into.

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stevenback7
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Icon 1 posted November 08, 2006 13:32      Profile for stevenback7   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
now we all knew saddam was going to die once they said that the trial was going to be held in Iraq.

Why is this? because usually when a world leader or someone is important is convicted of crimes against humanity they are sent to the internation criminal court in the hague, Netherlands. Every country in the world beleives in this court except for america which is why bush has secret camps everywhere to keep his so called "terrorist" there because he can't send them to the hague for a proper trial.

So when the trial was said to be held in iraq it meant that bush had some doing in this.

Also the whole idea of being convicted by the people you were in-humaine to sounds kind of weird. its the same as if someone shot someone and then the shooter's punishment was handed out by the family of the victem. Of course the victems family is going to go for thr worst punishment.

Next thing is the replacing of the judge's and everything. Especially the one which believed saddam wasn't a dictator. Are we in a society were the goverment can now decide to remove judges if they do not favor the opinion of the goverment.

Next is the whole death by hanging. Firstly i don't believe in the death sentance primarilly because of that stupid saying "two wrongs don't make a right". Again saddam killed his people so his people return the favor and kill him. Saddam isn't going to learn any lesson because he is dead while the iraq people still have to deal with the mess. So i say let him live the rest of his life in prison. But if he had to die some way i say put him on a rocket and send him into space. No mess and no pain i hope.

now that was my 2 cents. (yes there are spelling mistakes and probally some wrong facts and some of it is probally worded wrong but you get the idea)

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Colonel Panic
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Icon 1 posted November 08, 2006 15:38      Profile for Colonel Panic         Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Generally speaking I'm not a big fan of the death penalty.

There are too many cases where the accused is innocent, and if you're innocent and condemned to die, that is just an awful way to go.

Saddam on the other hand ...

Half time at the Super Bowl, and if we can try and convict W, then we could have a double-header.

CP

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Callipygous
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Icon 1 posted November 08, 2006 15:41      Profile for Callipygous     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
I pretty much agree stevenback7. My feeling is that Bush wanted Saddam killed, but since he couldn't really do it legally himself he has the Iraqis do it by proxy. However he is being held in Iraq by the US, when not appearing in court, and very likely will continue to be so imprisoned until the Americans hand him over at the last minute before his execution, so it is not possible to pretend that this is an independent Iraqi process in which we are not complicit.

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stevenback7
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Icon 1 posted November 08, 2006 16:02      Profile for stevenback7   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Callipygous_____________ thanks for agreeing with me. I'm just waiting now for a day when some wealthy developed country with a ton of allies to get pissed at america. Because which country really wants to stop america in iraq. The french just tried to stop them with words but i think when america declares its next target then the world will be right on top of them. Because i think the world has had enough with the american goverment.

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Mel
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Icon 1 posted November 08, 2006 16:12      Profile for Mel     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
How do you get the message across that killing is wrong? By killing more people, of course! But I guess that's okay, since George Bush apparently had a conversation with God and God said he is now on his side. I guess that means he and other Americans can avoid the "thou shalt not kill" commandment.
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