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Author Topic: 5 Years
Jace Raven

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Icon 1 posted September 10, 2006 22:16      Profile for Jace Raven         Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
It was odd. When I first heard the news, it seemed not to bother me to much. I was in shock. I was in awe. The tragedy, too much like a movie, came blaring across the news. Even as it unfolded live, on air, I couldn't believe what I was seeing, what I was feeling.

So many feelings (enough to warrant it's own paragraph) were surging through my body too foriegn to explain, I was confused.

I feel the weight of tears fighting their way out as I write this, though I stand true.

I joined the Marine Corps durring a time of war. Some would say it is true testiment to a persons character. I don't know about that, I would have joined anyway, though now I feel the burden of that day. Everything I do today is in the wake of it. This saddens me, though strangely enough brings meaning to my actions. Where does the respect stand? Not in my hands but the hands of all those who lost, all those who helped, all those who saved lives that day.

Respect. Respect what has happened, why it happened, how it happened. Respect it and bring meaning to it. I cannot respect what has happened in its wake, to do so brings no meaning to the lives lost that day, and in the 5 years that have since passed.

This I can do and to remember.

I think about it everyday. How it has changed my life. How it has changed the lives of those I love. How it has changed the lives of everyone. It has been 5 years and I still dont know what to think nor to feel.

"The world will little note, nor long remember what we say here, but it can never forget what they did here"

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Ashitaka

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Icon 1 posted September 11, 2006 01:00      Profile for Ashitaka     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Not to be insensative to you but you can take it, you're a marine. 9/11 has changed you only because you let it. (unless you knew someone who died in those terrorist attacks, in which case I appologize.)

BTW, How has it changed you? Is it for the better? You tell people to bring meaning to it. How?

Why doesn't the deaths of thoasands of people you also don't know in the wars of Africa also not affect you in the same way. Because they were americans on 9/11 that died? Then why doesn't the death of thousands of americans in auto accidents not affect you in the same way? Are thier deaths not just as senseless? Are they not just as heroic. Why does some innocent you don't know dying in a terrorist attack affect you more than some innocent being killed by a drunk driver? Because you think you can do something about it?

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"If they're not gonna make a distinction between Muslims and violent extremists, then why should I take the time to distinguish between decent, fearful white people and racists?"

-Assif Mandvi

Posts: 3089 | From: Switzerland | Registered: Feb 2006  |  IP: Logged
Sxeptomaniac

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Icon 1 posted September 11, 2006 14:12      Profile for Sxeptomaniac   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Ashitaka:
Not to be insensative to you but you can take it, you're a marine. 9/11 has changed you only because you let it. (unless you knew someone who died in those terrorist attacks, in which case I appologize.)

BTW, How has it changed you? Is it for the better? You tell people to bring meaning to it. How?

Why doesn't the deaths of thoasands of people you also don't know in the wars of Africa also not affect you in the same way. Because they were americans on 9/11 that died? Then why doesn't the death of thousands of americans in auto accidents not affect you in the same way? Are thier deaths not just as senseless? Are they not just as heroic. Why does some innocent you don't know dying in a terrorist attack affect you more than some innocent being killed by a drunk driver? Because you think you can do something about it?

Why shouldn't we let it affect us? It was a significant event for the US, involving the destruction of a world-renowned landmark, and major loss of life. It's also a shared event, so while the loss of a close loved one may be more significant for those close to the person, 9/11 carries significance for a wide range of people across the country.

That which hits closer to home carries a greater impact. Like it or not, that's just the way people are. Patriotism certainly isn't unusual to the US, either.

On the last comparison, you make it sound like we do nothing about drunk driving or car accidents, either. Cars are constantly being improved for safety, and penalties for drunken driving have been stiffened on multiple instances. There are also advocacy groups, such as MADD, and random testing checkpoints set up on a regular basis.

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Let's pray that the human race never escapes from Earth to spread its iniquity elsewhere. - C. S. Lewis

Posts: 1590 | From: Fresno, CA | Registered: Mar 2005  |  IP: Logged
Ashitaka

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Icon 1 posted September 11, 2006 14:24      Profile for Ashitaka     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Sxeptomaniac:


On the last comparison, you make it sound like we do nothing about drunk driving or car accidents, either. Cars are constantly being improved for safety, and penalties for drunken driving have been stiffened on multiple instances. There are also advocacy groups, such as MADD, and random testing checkpoints set up on a regular basis.

Yet there is no national day of morning for those who were killed by drunk drivers. My point is that I see no difference in the amount of tragedy between the innocents killed by drunks and those killed by terrorists, and everybody else seems to see a difference.

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"If they're not gonna make a distinction between Muslims and violent extremists, then why should I take the time to distinguish between decent, fearful white people and racists?"

-Assif Mandvi

Posts: 3089 | From: Switzerland | Registered: Feb 2006  |  IP: Logged
GrumpySteen

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Icon 1 posted September 11, 2006 14:41      Profile for GrumpySteen     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
I'll bet there would be a day of mourning five years afterwards if nearly 3,000 people had all been killed at the same time, in the same place by drunk drivers.

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Worst. Celibate. Ever.

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maximile

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Icon 1 posted September 11, 2006 14:46      Profile for maximile   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
I've given up trying to understand it. Last year, someone (I forget who) posted a pic of one of the crashes, and so many people posted comments criticising the poster. They didn't want to be reminded of the event, and eventually the poster took the pic down.

It's always been my view that by letting it affect you so much, you're just playing into the hands of the people responsible for the attacks. That's how terrorism works.

I guess you had to be there...

Posts: 1085 | From: London, UK (Powys, UK in hols) | Registered: Feb 2005  |  IP: Logged
Ashitaka

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Icon 1 posted September 11, 2006 14:48      Profile for Ashitaka     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Steen:
I'll bet there would be a day of mourning five years afterwards if nearly 3,000 people had all been killed at the same time, in the same place by drunk drivers.

What does it matter, 3000 dead is 3000 dead. What does it matter if it took three hours or three months to kill that many innocents. The innocents death toll by auto is much higher than those killed by terrorists in america, yet people seem to care less about those killed by auto.

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"If they're not gonna make a distinction between Muslims and violent extremists, then why should I take the time to distinguish between decent, fearful white people and racists?"

-Assif Mandvi

Posts: 3089 | From: Switzerland | Registered: Feb 2006  |  IP: Logged
GrumpySteen

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Icon 1 posted September 11, 2006 15:01      Profile for GrumpySteen     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
If you feel that strongly about it, pick a day and promote it. Raise awareness and campaign for it. We have Veteran's Day because someone did just that, not because everyone randomly decided that November 11th was the day to honor on their own. The same could be true for a day of rememberance for those lost to the idiocy of drunken drivers.

Now stop trying to turn a thread that was started as a heartfelt statement about the events of September 11th into an argument. Start another thread about deaths due to drunken drivers if you wish, but don't spit on memories of others just because you have a bug up your ass.

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Worst. Celibate. Ever.

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stevenback7
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Icon 1 posted September 11, 2006 15:44      Profile for stevenback7   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Personally I don't have any feeling for the victems of 9/11. I don't hate them and i don't cry about them every day. It was a terrible event in World history but that it is all that it symbolizes for me in aspects of emotions.

I actually have attempted discusions with my dad and with other people about what i think the world is up too and who is to blame for things and what will happen. But it usually ends up in a huge debate and conflict.

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Comic Book Guy: There is no emoticon for what i'm feeling.

Posts: 1199 | From: Canada eh? | Registered: May 2006  |  IP: Logged
Ruhrpottbabe
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Icon 1 posted September 11, 2006 16:35      Profile for Ruhrpottbabe     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
I think the basic difference between terrorists and drunk drivers is that terrorists INTEND to kill people - as many as possible - and drunk drivers simply RISK the lives of innocent people, they produce kind of collateral damage (I've always hated this expression).
For me personally nothing has changed since 9-11 apart from the nuisance of being checked and interviewed at European borders which I had already considered a matter of the eighties. Oh, and the fact that governments all over the world starts spying on their citizens, their e-mail accounts and phone lines. They check our religious beliefs and even judge them.
Seems as if freedom and liberty have become a kind of collateral damage ...

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In a world of excess, it's the subtle that stands out.

Posts: 69 | From: Germany | Registered: May 2006  |  IP: Logged
stevenback7
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Icon 1 posted September 11, 2006 17:42      Profile for stevenback7   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
I think the basic difference between terrorists and drunk drivers is that terrorists INTEND to kill people
Yes terrorist intend to kill people but they have there reasons. I think this is a misconception that people think terrorist are born terrorist and naturally want to kill people (that its in their blood). Usually terrorist are formed when there whole family, business, etc have been killed and destroyed by an attacking country or group of people.

lets say you have a nice family (good wife/ husband and a couple of kids) you are making good money with your own business. Then suddenly a country declares war on your country and everything is being bombed. You come to work and everything is gone. You come home and your whole house has been bombed and you find your family slaughtered on your door step. You have nothing left to live for. So what else would you want to do except take revenge on the people who destroyed your life a.k.a become a terrorist.

If we just stopped fighting each other and declare peace then new terrorist wouldn't form at the rate they are now. And the terrorist which do exist we can take care of them one at a time in a controlled maner. I know what the terrorist did was wrong but what we are doing is equally if not worse then what the terrorist are doing.

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Comic Book Guy: There is no emoticon for what i'm feeling.

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CommanderShroom
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Icon 1 posted September 11, 2006 21:21      Profile for CommanderShroom     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Ashitaka:
Yet there is no national day of morning for those who were killed by drunk drivers.

/me googles...

Nope not a day.

31 of them, in December
no less.

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Does he know our big secret?
Has one of us confessed?
'Bout the wires circuits and motors
Buried in our chest

Posts: 2465 | From: Utarrrrggggghhh!!!!!!!! | Registered: Mar 2003  |  IP: Logged
ASM65816
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Icon 1 posted September 11, 2006 21:58      Profile for ASM65816   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
On February 26, 1993, a car bomb was detonated by Islamist terrorists in the underground parking garage below Tower One of the World Trade Center.
9/11 was a repeat except that it used different means with different results.

On Sept. 11, 2001, I watched "a grown man" pointing at the burning WTC towers on TV and giggling. I would have beat him to a bloody pulp except that I didn't feel like going to jail. (That may have changed my attitudes more than the WTC attacks themselves.)

quote:
September 11, 2006 01:00
... the deaths of thousands of people you also don't know in the wars of Africa....

The "Islamic Extremist Club" doesn't just attack "the great Satan" (America): "militias" calling for Islamic rule in Somalia, the Janjaweed in Sudan, bombings at train stations, restaurants, and other public places, the demands the execution of "those who insult Islam" in non-Muslim countries....

I really don't care what any particular group calls itself, or what country it calls home, or if they kill Africans, Europeans, Americans, Muslims or Non-Muslims, the groups are all based on the same ideology and do the same thing.

I consider the massacres committed by Janjaweed no less deplorable than the murders committed any other group of "Islamic Extremists."

quote:
September 11, 2006 17:42
Yes terrorist intend to kill people but they have there reasons.

Their Reason: Sharia law is perfect, and those who will not submit to it (including Muslims) are enemies of god and must be destroyed.

#include sarcasm.h
[shake head]   Yup, since they's got reason, I don't feel bad about all them killing in Africa, blowing up mosques, "sectarian violence," and striking off heads of aid workers and journalists.

quote:
If we just stopped fighting each other and declare peace then new terrorist wouldn't form at the rate they are now.
After the 1993 WTC attack, there was no "war" against terrorism. The result of "not declaring war" was not peace -- terrorist attacks continued. "Islamic Extremists" declared war on "Infidels" over 30 years ago and have not sought peace since. We were lucky in 1993 that thousands of Americans didn't die. September 11, 2001 proved that luck runs out.

Clinton saved the lives of thousands of Muslims in Yugoslavia. He didn't treat the 1993 WTC bombing as the act of a foreign state. This was hardly "waging war" against Muslims; however, in 1998, bin Laden and several other like-minded "Muslims" issued a fatwa to "kill all Americans."

Islamic extremists have no intention of accepting any peace where non-Muslims and their societies must be treated as equals.

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Once a proud programmer of Apple II's, he now spends his days and nights in cheap dives fraternizing with exotic dancers....

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DigitalBill

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Icon 1 posted September 11, 2006 23:54      Profile for DigitalBill   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Without getting political either way, I give you what was.

 -

I had a lucky day in July 2001, in NYC for Macworld Expo (back in the day, when they had more than one Macworld a year), and the light just happened to cooperate.

DB's World Trade Center pics

=DB

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I've found life is so much better in the cartoon universe!
"No power in the 'Verse can stop us!"

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Grummash

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Icon 1 posted September 12, 2006 02:24      Profile for Grummash     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
originally posted by ASM65816:
9/11 was a repeat except that it used different means with different results.

It was the same, only different? [Confused]

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...and yet, across the gulf of space, minds immeasurably superior to ours regarded this earth with envious eyes...

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Callipygous
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Icon 1 posted September 12, 2006 03:21      Profile for Callipygous     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
I remember well the shock of that day, and how and the overwhelming feeling of solidarity with the US we felt then. I emailed and 'phoned just about everyone I knew in the States to express my shock and sorrow at this. Sadly subsequent events have had a diametrically opposite effect, but nothing should take away from the horror and tragedy of this terrible event. You all know my views, but I also don't think this thread is the right place for a political ding dong battle.

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"Knowledge is Power. France is Bacon" - Milton

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Colonel Panic
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Icon 1 posted September 13, 2006 18:04      Profile for Colonel Panic         Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Jace,

My deepest respect is yours for your beliefs, efforts and sacrifices.

It is unfortunate, though that this nation's ruling political party has decided to use 9/11 for political purposes, and extend the war, rather than win it.

It is well known that to win a war that a nation must be fully commited to winning, unfortunately we have a party of privelege in power that simply does not believe in this.

They believe YOU should pay, and YOU should sacrifice, while THEY receive tax cuts, avoid service and demand elimination of the inheritance tax so THEYcan have cushy sweet 16 partys on MTV while you go without.

On 9/11 of this year our President represented this conflict as one as the equivalent of WWII. That is an interesting thought, but he was lieing. You see on one day-- ONE DAY-- in WWII, June 6, 1944, the world sent 156,000 troops to the shores of Normandy in an all-out effort to defeat absolute evil. Hundreds of thousands of troops worked offshore and in the air to support those troops, and many millions worked in preparation of that day. And that was just one day.

Back home Mom's and Dads did without. Gasoline, Rubber, Sugar and Chocolate were rationed. Women drew lines on the back of their legs to simulate silk stockings, because every square inch of silk was dedicated to making parachutes. THE WHOLE NATION SACRIFICED! Not just a few.

Today, there are only 135,000 troops fighting in Iraq -- and that's day in and day out. Yet, 60-million people voted for our President in the last election stating they supported that war. Of that number a good 30-million are fit and of age to serve. When you were recruiting did you see them? Of course not. You're being over-rotated and your contemporaries are being backdrafted because we have big-talking politicians who have no interest in serving, but they do have big interests in corrpution-ridden sweetheart deals, and tax cuts for the over-privelged.

Sadly, very sadly, there are more young Republicans with no military record than there are young Marines.

Here at home there is no rationing -- only complaining that righty has to pay too much for gas to fuel their SUVs. And righty, after declaring the war is trying to make the ECONOMY the issue. The jerks just don't understand sacrifice.

It was the same when I was sent to Viet Nam. Dick Cheney had better things to do. So did Newt Gingrich, George Will and a host of other war drum bangers. George W. served at his own convenience, not his nation's. And guys like me and John Kerry? We served with distinction and got shit on.

I got shit on by the hippies who spat on me in San Diego. And I've been shit on by the righties who won't serve and look at any vet who's been there and has the courage to speak out.

Looking back, I would have preferred to stay home. I had no choice, my country called and I answered. I've been repeatedly shit on for it.

Good luck to you, Jace. May God Bless You.

Colonel Panic

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Free! Free at last!

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