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» The Geek Culture Forums   » News, Reviews, Views!   » Politics/Religion/Current Affairs   » Labor Day is a joke on the proletariat.

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Author Topic: Labor Day is a joke on the proletariat.
Ashitaka

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Icon 8 posted September 04, 2006 01:39      Profile for Ashitaka     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Labor Day was created to be a day of rest for the working class American. This however is no more. As America has moved away from a industrial economy to a service economy, Labor Day has lost itís meaning.

Here is how. The average low wage worker in the past worked in a factory. Today they work at Wal-Mart or TGIFís. These places are Open on Labor Day. The college educated white collar office worker gets the day of, the CEO gets the day off, the dentist gets the day off, but not the people for who this tradition was started. These wealthy people want to go out and spend money on their day off, so the low wage workers get to spend their Labor Day, serving the wealthy.

Like I saidÖ

Itís a F*cking joke.

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"If they're not gonna make a distinction between Muslims and violent extremists, then why should I take the time to distinguish between decent, fearful white people and racists?"

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stevenback7
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Icon 1 posted September 04, 2006 06:12      Profile for stevenback7   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Yeah i know labor day has lost its meaning. But so has all the other hollidays. Every mayor holliday out there has lost its meaning and has become a shoping excuse.

Funny thing though is that if we toke out labor day and never celebrated it again. Then there whould be an uproar from the lower class workers. And then we would have to create another superfical holiday to take labor day's place. This is probally because some if not most of these workers will either get time and a half pay or bonus pay or will be able to use this day of work to be able to take of another day the following week to replace the worked holliday.

Question: what wealthy people shop at wal-mart? I know upper mid class people do but i haven't seen a rich person shop at wal-mart before.

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Ashitaka

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Icon 1 posted September 04, 2006 06:21      Profile for Ashitaka     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by stevenback7:

Question: what wealthy people shop at wal-mart? I know upper mid class people do but i haven't seen a rich person shop at wal-mart before.

Wal-Mart, Target, Marshall Fields, or nieman Marcus. It doesn't matter. The point is that the working class are working even harder on thier "day of rest" because everyone else has off and goes out to spend money.

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"If they're not gonna make a distinction between Muslims and violent extremists, then why should I take the time to distinguish between decent, fearful white people and racists?"

-Assif Mandvi

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Colonel Panic
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Icon 1 posted September 04, 2006 06:37      Profile for Colonel Panic         Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
A holiday only loses its meaning if you let it. People can't take the meaning of any holiday away from me -- they only take it away from themselves.

As for Labor Day losing its meaning for those in the service industry, it is because those in the service industry have cast the labor movement out of their lives. Labor Day was created by unions.

If you enjoy working split shifts, 30-hour weeks with no health care, and a minimum wage career, then so be it. Look, it's not like the service industry can export jobs.

Hey remember when Wal-Mart touted American Made Products, and promised to always sell American Made?

Ha! Promises Promises, always broken promises.

I may have what is considered a white collar job now (actually a no-collar job, when I feel like it), but I still have my Teamsters card.

CP

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CommanderShroom
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Icon 1 posted September 04, 2006 08:57      Profile for CommanderShroom     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Colonel Panic:
but I still have my Teamsters card.

CP

I threw mine away.

This comes from a former Teamster and CSEA member.

Sadly enough, the union is what keeps me away from union shops.

The labor movement pretty well made themselves irrelevant with shoddy management and their own broken promises.

I have been burned by groups that have the best interest of the worker at heart, and I have been burned by the asshat CEO of multinational corporations. So really what is the difference now? The CEO doesn't hide their bad intentions.

[ohwell]

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TheMoMan
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Icon 1 posted September 04, 2006 09:53      Profile for TheMoMan         Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Ashitaka_______________________I was raised near Flint Michigan, home of the strike that closed General Motors for some time. Because of those people I was able to work in a clean and relatively safe shop and am now receiving a nice retirement package. Yes I have heard that Unions are not neccessary, at a well run business where the boss values his(or her) employees there would not be a union, however if the boss or corperation is less than honorable, the workers vote for a union because the boss caused them.

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Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.


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Ashitaka

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Icon 1 posted September 04, 2006 10:39      Profile for Ashitaka     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by TheMoMan:
Ashitaka_______________________I was raised near Flint Michigan, home of the strike that closed General Motors for some time. Because of those people I was able to work in a clean and relatively safe shop and am now receiving a nice retirement package. Yes I have heard that Unions are not neccessary, at a well run business where the boss values his(or her) employees there would not be a union, however if the boss or corperation is less than honorable, the workers vote for a union because the boss caused them.

Are you not replying to commander shroom?

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"If they're not gonna make a distinction between Muslims and violent extremists, then why should I take the time to distinguish between decent, fearful white people and racists?"

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ASM65816
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Icon 1 posted September 04, 2006 20:24      Profile for ASM65816   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
September 04, 2006 09:53
I was raised near Flint Michigan, home of the strike that closed General Motors for some time.

If you look at the effect of the Jobs Bank program, the "unions" are helping close US auto making plants even today.

quote:
The Jobs Bank is a two-decade-old program in which nearly 15,000 auto workers continue to get paid (benefits that often top $100,000 a year) after their companies stop needing them.

To earn wages and benefits, the workers must perform some company-approved activity. Their job: to do nothing.

There is no limit on how long a worker can stay in the Jobs Bank. They don't have to look for work at their company. Contracts allow workers to turn down any job offer at a site farther than 50 miles from their home plant.

The Jobs Bank at GM and other U.S. auto companies including Ford Motor is likely to cost around $1.4 billion to $2 billion this year.

 
Improving the safety of working conditions is understandable. However, having companies pay people $100,000 a year to sit in a room doing nothing is economic suicide.

quote:
September 04, 2006 06:12
Every major holiday out there has (edit) become a shopping excuse.

You left out "excuse to drive a couple of hundred miles and stay at a hotel."   [Razz]

quote:
September 04, 2006 01:39
____ gets the day off, ____ gets the day off, ____ gets the day off....

[ohwell]   What's the point of having any holidays? There will always be several occupations that must remain active 24 hours a day, seven days a week: firefighters being an obvious example.

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littlefish
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Icon 1 posted September 05, 2006 02:19      Profile for littlefish   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
What's the point of having any holidays? There will always be several occupations that must remain active 24 hours a day, seven days a week: firefighters being an obvious example.

People like having a rest, and are more productive after holidays. Firefighters don't work 24-7 either. They work in shifts, and have holidays. People got to sleep!
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quantumfluff
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Icon 1 posted September 05, 2006 06:48      Profile for quantumfluff     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
On Labor Day I was flying back from meetings with my Ukrainian employees. It was a perspective changing trip. When I get finished with my backlog of email and work from the trip, I might have a few comments about the subject.
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Mac D
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Icon 1 posted September 05, 2006 08:15      Profile for Mac D     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by stevenback7:
Question: what wealthy people shop at wal-mart? I know upper mid class people do but i haven't seen a rich person shop at wal-mart before.

I read in Forbes magazine a couple years ago (Around '99 when I was working night audit at a hotel) That a majority of people that are worth over $2 billion shop at wal*mart or Kmart and drive Ford or Chevy. It's the Upper middle class that are the ones going bankrupt trying to act rich by purchasing Lotus and Porche and shopping at name brand stores.

You don't get rich by spending all of your money on things that will just depretiate over time.

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Ashitaka

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Icon 1 posted September 05, 2006 08:25      Profile for Ashitaka     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Mac D:
quote:
Originally posted by stevenback7:
Question: what wealthy people shop at wal-mart? I know upper mid class people do but i haven't seen a rich person shop at wal-mart before.

I read in Forbes magazine a couple years ago (Around '99 when I was working night audit at a hotel) That a majority of people that are worth over $2 billion shop at wal*mart or Kmart and drive Ford or Chevy. It's the Upper middle class that are the ones going bankrupt trying to act rich by purchasing Lotus and Porche and shopping at name brand stores.

You don't get rich by spending all of your money on things that will just depretiate over time.

Here is a slate article on the Nieman Marcus Paradox. or "How dumb rich people end up in debt"

Basically, in America, 14% of people with over 5 million in the bank have credit card balances. This is a very interesting article on how dumb rich people can be. I must also note that smart rich people aren't that much smarter. They just give all thier money to private investment bankers and have them manage thier money.

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-Assif Mandvi

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Stereo

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Icon 1 posted September 05, 2006 10:31      Profile for Stereo     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Now, about being dumb with money... Shopping at Wallgrumbles and the like for anything that's supposed to last a while is dumb. Because you have to pay for quality. Paying twice the price for something that last thrice the time is smart. Trying to save 10 dollars on something, then have to replace it every couple of years, rather than keep it a decade or more, is wasting money. Unfortunately, it means that you have to have money if you want to save some. (People on thight budgets can't pay a higher price upfront, even if it means saving more over time.)

That's why I'm happy I ditched my bubble-jet printer for a laser one (albeit a B&W one, but I hardly need the color anyway). The money spend on ink yearly was past the value of the printer itself. Now the price of the toner will be close to (or over) the printer's value, but I'll have to change it every other year or so. (Plus, it's so much faster and quieter...)

Now, back on the topic, our work registration (at least in Quebec, I'm not sure anywhere else) says that if someone has to work on a holliday, the employee must get a compensation day off. As the "extended hours" legislation restricts the number of employees on the floor, it makes it easier for the managers to comply.

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Xanthine

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Icon 1 posted September 05, 2006 12:24      Profile for Xanthine     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
A lot of businesses offer employees extra pay for working holidays, which is why the employees are willing to come in. Holidays themselves have existed for about as long as humans have organized themselves into civilizations. I guess humans have an ancient need to kick back sometimes. I'm also willing to bet that for as long as there have been holidays there have been people stuck working through them. I'm just waiting for the day they discover that Roman shopkeepers had sales on feast days.

I took Labor Day off for once. I rarely take two-day, never mind three day, weekends, so this was rather remarkable. Oddly enough, one of my labmates is resentful about it.

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TheMoMan
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Icon 1 posted September 05, 2006 13:29      Profile for TheMoMan         Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
ASM__________________________You make a valid point when you claim that the jobs bank is a huge drain, how ever the payment to an individual worker is only the amount that, that worker would receive working forty hours. Also you must remember that the company also wanted a jobs bank so that they did not have to hire and teach hundreds of temps how to punch in and where the restrooms were. Many times in some areas of the country workers from one plant would be drawing unemployment while their neighbors would be working overtime until the rush was over. Not all models sell equally well. In Flint there was an amalgamated union, meaning that workers could flow from plant to plant in Chevrolet, Engine, Truck and Bus and Fisher Body, this worked well so the jobs bank was to make it happen nation wide.


In 1982 GM came to the UAW and the IUE with hat in hand begging for relief from some work rules and holiday and vacation days. Management was so sure that it would pass that they took away some of my planned vacation days before the ratification vote. One month after the contract change and our wages did go down, GM gave their high ranking and unclassified management the biggest raise in corporate history, yes GM is in trouble, but mostly due to their own inability to run and manage the company. If GM would get off of their collective (biblical beasts of burden) and build products that people want to buy then they could return to the greatness that they once had.

--------------------
Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.


Benjamin Franklin,

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Colonel Panic
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Icon 1 posted September 06, 2006 20:08      Profile for Colonel Panic         Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Guys,

I long ago gave up any illusions that the labor unions killed the big three.

My experience attending college in Michigan convinced me every goddamned D- student in B-school was the son or daughter of an auto exec who guaranteed their kid a featherbed job as long as they graduated by the skin of their teeth.

Who else would order up extra production of monster SUVs during an energy crisis? Those idiots make the decisions and the working stiff suffers.

I'm sure there will be fellows like ASM dumb enough to swallow the Fox news spin that its the unions fault, but that is a very small percentage of the story.

The biggest welfare state is not US government sponsored, but stockholder sponsored by the people owning GM, Ford and Chrysler.

Read the news, after two failed restructure attempts, Bill Ford Jr. finally got the axe and the board brought in somebody who might be able to fix things. (The welfare state starts at the top).

You think the Ford's know how to run things. Have you seen their football team lately?

CP

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YaYawoman

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Icon 1 posted September 06, 2006 20:36      Profile for YaYawoman     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Hi. I was rambling through some sites I visit and saw this. It made me nod my head as I read it and say hell yeah. I dont work for the automakers directly but we supply the suppliers so where they go, eventually my job follows. It is a short read but worth it in my opinion. It is called Labor Day Lament.

http://www.financialsense.com/editorials/petillo/2006/0905.html

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ASM65816
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Icon 1 posted September 06, 2006 23:57      Profile for ASM65816   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
September 06, 2006 20:08
there will be fellows ... to swallow the Fox news spin that its the unions fault

I'm reminding "you" that everyone deserves a piece of the blame. To say "it's all the governments fault" is self delusion so most people can cheerfully pursue ignorance and squandering wealth.

Second, I always wondered how someone got paid $30 per hour to work on an assembly line, especially when robots are doing all the welding. Note: The article about the Jobs Bank cited $100,000 salaries which indicates a pay rate of about $50 per hour.

quote:
September 05, 2006 13:29
Also you must remember that the company also wanted a jobs bank so that they did not have to hire and teach hundreds of temps

I imagine the Jobs Bank system worked reasonably well 20 years ago when the need for workers with a given skill set was constant or growing. However, it seems that modern robotics changed the things which made the Jobs Bank useful.

quote:
September 05, 2006 08:25
Basically, in America, 14% of people with over 5 million in the bank have credit card balances.

I would say that "squandering wealth" occurs at nearly all incomes. (For that matter, I spend twice as much as I should on beer because I go to bars instead of drinking in front of my own TV.) As a pet peeve: I consider sending aluminum cans, newspaper, and plastic bottles to landfills as a form of squandering resources.

Here's a Conspiracy Theory: The US government promotes holidays to increase oil and auto industry revenue.
  • Propaganda: "Go on vacation to the beach."
  • Driving hundreds of miles to a beach (or mountains) uses much more fuel than relaxing at home. Result: Increased oil company revenue.
  • Luggage for a vacation requires vehicles with greater cargo capacity. Result: Auto makers sell big cars. Secondary result: Big cars burn more fuel.
Even Christmas: Lots of gifts ... need big car to hold them. Driving 'round and 'round in full parking lots ... burns more gas.   Hmmmmm..........   [evil]

quote:
LABOR DAY LAMENT   by Paul Petillo
... the misnamed Pension Protection Act. Although the nine hundred plus page document signed into law recently....

Maybe if someone would tar and feather the lawyers then we wouldn't have "bad laws."

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The Famous Druid

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Icon 1 posted September 07, 2006 00:24      Profile for The Famous Druid     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Ashitaka:
Here is a slate article on the Nieman Marcus Paradox. or "How dumb rich people end up in debt"

Basically, in America, 14% of people with over 5 million in the bank have credit card balances. This is a very interesting article on how dumb rich people can be. I must also note that smart rich people aren't that much smarter.

Some years ago, my sister was working in advertising, and making absurd amounts of money. She lived the stereotypical ad-executive lifestyle, the $100 lunches, the designer clothes, etc. Then the company she worked for went broke, and she found she had a huge credit-card debt, a mortgage, no savings, no income. Things were pretty grim, she missed mortgage payments, the credit card debt was increasing, and then ... she got another high-paying job in advertising.

What did she do with her first paycheque?

Bought a shiny new 4WD (SUV to 'merkins) using mostly borrowed money of course.

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Serenak

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Icon 11 posted September 07, 2006 03:27      Profile for Serenak     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Sorry - my post somehow went into the wrong thread [crazy]

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