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Author Topic: Woman allergic to modern gadgets helped by EM blocking undergarment
Snaggy

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Icon 11 posted August 12, 2006 08:33      Profile for Snaggy   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
If electromagnetic radiation is doing that to her... what's it doing to the rest of us? [Confused] [Eek!]

Hi-tech suit helps woman allergic to modern gadgets

/me opens TTB Electromagnetic radiation-blocking lingerie store. [Big Grin]

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nerdwithnofriends
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Icon 1 posted August 12, 2006 10:41      Profile for nerdwithnofriends     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Nothing. I really just believe this is a case of hypochondria.

The thing is, it would be believable if they didn't say she could 'just about use a TV' but that iPods cause her agony. Wouldn't a TV spit out more radiation than most other appliances (assuming it is a CRT, that is). I just don't believe it.

Besides, what's the harm of a couple microjoules of radio waves hitting you, when their wavelength is probably longer than the width of a human cell?

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"The Buddha, the Godhead, resides quite as comfortably in the circuits of a digital computer or the gears of a cycle transmission as he does at the top of a mountain or in the petals of a flower." - Robert M. Pirsig

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Xanthine

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Icon 1 posted August 12, 2006 11:06      Profile for Xanthine     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Good god, how is it she can't handle a microwvae but can tolerate lightbulbs and sunshine?

We are all surrounded by EM radiation. We have been surrounded by EM since living things started existing on land and near the surface of the sea.

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And it's one, two, three / On the wrong side of the lee / What were you meant for? / What were you meant for?
- The Decemberists

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uilleann
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Icon 1 posted August 12, 2006 11:26            Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Frequency? Microwaves work by inducing electric current into the food and using the resulting resistance to generate heat. This is rather different to what visible light does to you at any intensity.

I'm a little uncertain about what an iPod would be giving off that's harmful. A TV for example, gives off high doses of X-rays, but iPods? Phones again, are microwave radios.

It's not the first time I've heard about large EM fields being given off from electrical devices. I'd be curious to know what they're supposedly doing, maybe to her neurotransmitters.

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littlefish
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Icon 1 posted August 12, 2006 11:29      Profile for littlefish   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Sounds a bit weird, but who knows? EM radiation does have quite a bit of difference depending on the wavelength. That's why gamma rays can screw you right up, and UV can give you cancer.

I would like to try some double-blind tests to be sure though...

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Ashitaka

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Icon 1 posted August 12, 2006 12:18      Profile for Ashitaka     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
So it sounds as if the silver thread in her clothing acts as a farraday Cage. The thing is, How is it grounded. How well do ungrounded farraday cages work?

She claims the mobil phones on a cruise ship affect her in her house. How much radiation comes off of a cell 300-700 meters away? (these distances are guesses.)

THen I read that she was on disability and it all made sense. Anyways, the moter reflex problems she claims are easy to fake. Much easier than say, actuall neurological damage.

quote:
This has made it virtually impossible for her to lead a normal life and she puts this as the reason why she has never married or had children.

The reason she has never married or had children is becuase she is bat shit crazy and no man wants that baggage

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"If they're not gonna make a distinction between Muslims and violent extremists, then why should I take the time to distinguish between decent, fearful white people and racists?"

-Assif Mandvi

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nerdwithnofriends
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Icon 1 posted August 12, 2006 13:14      Profile for nerdwithnofriends     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by littlefish:
Sounds a bit weird, but who knows? EM radiation does have quite a bit of difference depending on the wavelength. That's why gamma rays can screw you right up, and UV can give you cancer.

I would like to try some double-blind tests to be sure though...

Gamma rays are highly ionizing radiation- they penetrate easily, and their short wavelength correlates to a higher energy in each photon. Since a human cell is probably much wider than a gamma or UV ray's wavelength, it is much easier for that cell to 'capture' the photon and be damaged by it. Radio/microwaves, on the other hand, have wavelength that are visible to the human eye (Ever put a piece of wax paper covered in chocolate chips in the microwave and see the pattern that forms? I thought that was pretty darn cool). And a cell phone only puts out a couple millitwatts of power.

I agree with ashitaka... the fact that she is on disability and is 'affected' by such trivial devices, but not others, makes me think she's just milking the system.

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"The Buddha, the Godhead, resides quite as comfortably in the circuits of a digital computer or the gears of a cycle transmission as he does at the top of a mountain or in the petals of a flower." - Robert M. Pirsig

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Xanthine

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Icon 1 posted August 12, 2006 13:50      Profile for Xanthine     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Dude, an atomic bond is wider than an gamma ray. An atomic bond is wider than many colors of x-rays as well (which is why my job is possible [Razz] ). Eukaryotic and even bacterial cells are also bigger than UV light, which is why a UV microscope can be used. But that's not what makes UV and higher energy light dangerous.

Ionizing radiation basically knocks electrons out of orbitals, which in turn makes an otherwise innocent molecule a radical, and radicals react all over the place. Since living cells are essentially water balloons, most of the molecules the gamma or x-rays hit are water molecules, which, in their radical form, play havoc on everything else they come in contact with. I have seen RNA crystals literally burst after being a full round of data collection at the synchrotron because of this damage.

UV is a bit different. It doesn't ionize anything, but it does excite electrons in their bonds, and that in turn makes them capable of forming new bond, usually to things they're not supposed to be bound to. This forms lesions in RNA, DNA, and protein. Cells are capable of repairing damaged DNA (RNA and protein just gets destroyed), but these repair mechanisms aren't necessarily perfect and that's how mutations happen. Also, if the damage is too great the cell just says "fsck this shit" and kills itself, which is what sunburns and radiation burns are all about (and also what germicidal UV is for as well).

I'm not sure microwaves and radio waves do this though.

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And it's one, two, three / On the wrong side of the lee / What were you meant for? / What were you meant for?
- The Decemberists

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littlefish
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Icon 1 posted August 12, 2006 13:55      Profile for littlefish   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Possible mechanism?

People vary quite a lot in their physiology, and non-thermal effects of microwave heating are widely disputed.

Xanthine said:
quote:
I'm not sure microwaves and radio waves do this though.
Molecules couple with EM radiation according to the energy of the radiation. X-Rays and UV have the ability (if they interact) to eject electrons from molecules. X-rays eject core electrons - strongly/closely bound. UV ejects outer/softly bound electrons. Visible light can excite electrons between energy levels without ejecting them.

(EDIT: I'm not specifically disagreeing with Xanthine here - the boundaries between spectral regions and energy levels are fuzzy. - Einstein won his Nobel primarily for the photoelectric effect - the emission of electrons from materials under UV illumination. This helped prove that energy levels were quantised and debunked the "ultraviolet catastrophe")

Infrared light, being slightly less energetic can excite molecular to vibrations. Microwaves are of the right energy to affect molecular rotations.

This is a hugely simplified explanation, and each of these regions of the EM spectrum have many people who spend their lives using them for study.

If people have more detailed questions about how various materials interact with radiation of a particular frequency, I know stuff.

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Sxeptomaniac

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Icon 1 posted August 12, 2006 14:29      Profile for Sxeptomaniac   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
"What happens is I get brain fog," she said. "It's not painful but I have an inability to think and my brain can't tell my body what it should be doing."
"Brain fog"? Is that anything like a brain cloud? [Wink]

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Let's pray that the human race never escapes from Earth to spread its iniquity elsewhere. - C. S. Lewis

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Xanthine

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Icon 1 posted August 12, 2006 17:27      Profile for Xanthine     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by littlefish:
(EDIT: I'm not specifically disagreeing with Xanthine here - the boundaries between spectral regions and energy levels are fuzzy. - Einstein won his Nobel primarily for the photoelectric effect - the emission of electrons from materials under UV illumination. This helped prove that energy levels were quantised and debunked the "ultraviolet catastrophe")

You'd better not be - the big ugly molecules I like to play with do not absorb visible light for shit, but they transition very nicely in the UV range. [Razz] But the far end of the UV spectrum is about as evil as x-rays in terms of the damage caused.

I guess the best way to explain this is to say every wavelength of light has energy associated with it. When this energy hits a molecule, three things can happen: nothing, the electrons jump around in the molecule a bit, or the electrons flat out leave the molecule. Exactly which of these events will occur depends entirely on the energy invovled and the molecule being hit.

ETA: I wonde what would happen to that woman if she ever needed an MRI...

--------------------
And it's one, two, three / On the wrong side of the lee / What were you meant for? / What were you meant for?
- The Decemberists

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GrumpySteen

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Icon 1 posted August 12, 2006 18:08      Profile for GrumpySteen     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
She just doesn't understand the difference between thinking she's affected by electrical fields and actually being affected by them.

A few shots from a tazer should make the difference clear to her.

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Worst. Celibate. Ever.

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Ashitaka

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Icon 1 posted August 13, 2006 01:18      Profile for Ashitaka     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Steen:
She just doesn't understand the difference between thinking she's affected by electrical fields and actually being affected by them.

A few shots from a tazer should make the difference clear to her.

[Applause] [Applause] [Applause]

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"If they're not gonna make a distinction between Muslims and violent extremists, then why should I take the time to distinguish between decent, fearful white people and racists?"

-Assif Mandvi

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littlefish
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Icon 1 posted August 13, 2006 02:22      Profile for littlefish   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
I guess the best way to explain this is to say every wavelength of light has energy associated with it. When this energy hits a molecule, three things can happen: nothing, the electrons jump around in the molecule a bit, or the electrons flat out leave the molecule. Exactly which of these events will occur depends entirely on the energy invovled and the molecule being hit.
Other things can happen too. Vibrational modes can be excited. And remember that electronic transitions have vibrational (and even rotational) fine structure, if your machine has high enough resolution and the selection rules are OK.

But the woman probably is a nutter, I'm just not completely willing to dismiss it without more knowledge - i.e. a report in a real publication.

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The Famous Druid

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Icon 1 posted August 13, 2006 02:40      Profile for The Famous Druid     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Ashitaka:
She claims the mobil phones on a cruise ship affect her in her house. How much radiation comes off of a cell 300-700 meters away?

I'd have thought the ships radar would be a thousands of times more powerful than a mobile phone.

/me is fairly convinced that the "sad nutter" theory is the best explanation.

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If you watch 'The History Of NASA' backwards, it's about a space agency that has no manned spaceflight capability, then does low-orbit flights, then lands on the Moon.

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maybe.logic
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Icon 1 posted August 13, 2006 04:56      Profile for maybe.logic     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Bear in mind people, this article has been pulled from the yorkshire post....

It's all lies...

It's all lies... [devil wand]

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supergoo

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Icon 1 posted August 14, 2006 22:36      Profile for supergoo     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
One of two things could be going on here:

1) This article is a bunch of bollocks.

2) The mind is a strange and powerful thing that can persuade the body to show symptoms of an illness that isn't there.

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Y los sueños, sueños son.

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Spiderman

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Icon 1 posted August 15, 2006 07:37      Profile for Spiderman     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by supergoo:
One of two things could be going on here:

1) This article is a bunch of bollocks.

2) The mind is a strange and powerful thing that can persuade the body to show symptoms of an illness that isn't there.

Or

3) (1 + 2)

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Math problems? Call 1-800-[(10x)(13i)^2]-[sin(xy)/2.362x]

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