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Author Topic: Astronomy
SaSa
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Icon 7 posted December 09, 2005 20:25      Profile for SaSa     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Anybody in here know anything about astronomy? I've always been interested in this subject and I have tons of questions!

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Lalala!

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The Famous Druid

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Icon 1 posted December 09, 2005 23:01      Profile for The Famous Druid     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Well, I walked from the Sun to Saturn today, and I may walk from Saturn to Pluto tomorrow, or maybe next Saturday.

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If you watch 'The History Of NASA' backwards, it's about a space agency that has no manned spaceflight capability, then does low-orbit flights, then lands on the Moon.

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spungo
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Icon 1 posted December 10, 2005 03:06      Profile for spungo     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by SaSa:
Anybody in here know anything about astronomy? I've always been interested in this subject and I have tons of questions!

Um yeah, there's like stars 'n shit.

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Shameless plug. (Please forgive me.)

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Astronomer Jedi
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Icon 1 posted December 10, 2005 06:55      Profile for Astronomer Jedi   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
[ears prick up] Somebody mentioned astronomy!

Ask away, SaSa.

Druid, make sure you examine Uranus on the way. [Razz]

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Estne volumen in toga, an solum tibi libet me videre?

Posts: 606 | From: Perth, Western Australia | Registered: Nov 2005  |  IP: Logged
SaSa
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Icon 10 posted December 10, 2005 23:09      Profile for SaSa     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Ok, so what exactly is a quasar? I keep reading and reading about em, but the definitions aren't very clear.

I read an article about this guy who said that the sun really isn't just made up of gas, but that there's really a rocky terrain below the gassy layer. Do you think that's true?

Are black holes really neccassary for the for the formation of galaxies, or are they byproducts of them?

Heehee... I got a million of em.

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Lalala!

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Astronomer Jedi
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Icon 12 posted December 11, 2005 06:59      Profile for Astronomer Jedi   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Opens the Encyclopedia Astronomica to page 5,672. [Roll Eyes]

A quasar or QUAsi-Stellar Radio source is a star-like object also associated with strong radio emissions. They are high red-shift objects, meaning that they are extremely far away and extremely old. The nearest quasar is about 800 million lightyears away. They belong to a class of galaxies called Active Galactic Nuclei, including double radio sources and blazars. The Accretion Disk model is one that accounts for these AGNs by suggesting that the mechanism for each is actually the same, a supermassive black hole.

The type of object observed depends upon the direction the object is observed from. An AGN observed head-on will look like a blazar and is caused by looking down the line of sight of the gas jets emitted by the black hole perpendicular t o the disk. A quasar or radio source will be observed when the source is somewhat tilted to our viewpoint, and a double radio source will be seen if the object is viewed side-on.

Here is a link to a page with an ok graphic of a black hole accretion disk and associated relativistic jets.

This is a link to a composite visible/radio picture of a double radio source

[Confused] yet?

As for the sun having a rocky layer beneath the outer atmosphere, I don't know how this would be possible. The core temperature of the Sun is around 15 million Kelvin and everything exists as a gas or a plasma at such high temperature. Also, I am curious as to how he explains stellar evolution and also energy transfer with such a rocky layer. Do you have a link to his information?

Regular black holes are the end stage of the stellar evolution of supermassive stars. Supermassive black holes, like those found in the nuclei of galaxies were created during the formation of said galaxies when phenomenal amounts of gas accumulated at the galactic center. If the density of this gas reached the required density then a black hole would be created. Analysis of Hubble images of galaxy M87 discovered a supermassive black hole of some 3 BILLION solar masses at its core. Amazingly the object is only the size of our solar system.

Does this answer your questions?

It's a pleasure to answer your questions SaSa. Do you have any more?

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Estne volumen in toga, an solum tibi libet me videre?

Posts: 606 | From: Perth, Western Australia | Registered: Nov 2005  |  IP: Logged
SaSa
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Icon 1 posted December 13, 2005 09:32      Profile for SaSa     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Hey! Thanks for answering my questions. So a quasar is really a kind of galaxy? What's a blazar? Do quasars move around, or do they pretty much stay put?

I'll try to post a link to that surface of the sun guy's thing... hang on, my copy and paste-thing doesn't work.
www.thesurfaceofthesun.com

If that doesn't work, try searching "The photosphere of the Sun" . Maybe I misunderstood the website, but it sounded like the guy was saying that the hot, gassy stuff was just a liquid layer, like an ocean or something, and there are electric iron rocks underneith it...or something... I kinda think I get it, but I could be wrong. I'm not very good at understanding the technical terms.
Thanks! You're alot of help!~~*~**~**

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Lalala!

Posts: 62 | From: USA | Registered: Oct 2005  |  IP: Logged
Astronomer Jedi
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Icon 1 posted December 13, 2005 10:24      Profile for Astronomer Jedi   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
A blazar is so-called because the first object with the observed behaviour is called BL Lacertae. I guess, being wacky astronomers and astrophysicists, some people decided to keep the "ar" theme and call similar objects blazars.

Don't you just love the strange and wacky scientific nomenclature? How's this: "Constraining the Cosmological Parameters and Transition Redshift with Gamma-Ray Bursts and Supernovae"

Anyway, a blazar is observed when an Active Galactic Nucleus is viewed down the line of sight of the relativistic jets perpendicular to the plane of the accretion disk. Essentially, all you see is the light from the jet. I guess it's like looking straight into a torch (flashlight).


I'm pretty sure quasars move around. I assume that they have some motion with respect to their closest neighbours, similar to the impending collision between the Milky Way and Andromeda galaxies. There is also cosmolgical motion caused by the expansion of the universe, so on cosmological scales everything is moving away from everything else. It has been discovered that the expansion of the universe is actually accelerating, so things are getting further away, faster.

As for the Sun thing I haven't had a chance to read the site in depth. (It's 0200 hrs in Perth) From my brief skim, you haven't mis-read it. I'll read it later on and I'll also send it to the astrophysicists I know at uni and see what they say. It's not really their speciality (they're into gravity waves), but they might have a better understanding of stellar astrophysics than me, who's about to be sanctioned again.

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Estne volumen in toga, an solum tibi libet me videre?

Posts: 606 | From: Perth, Western Australia | Registered: Nov 2005  |  IP: Logged
SaSa
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Icon 1 posted December 13, 2005 10:33      Profile for SaSa     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Wow, I forgot about the time difference. You're Down Under, huh?

That "constraining the bleehbleebleebloobloo" thing you just said made me pop a capillary...

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Lalala!

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Astronomer Jedi
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Icon 11 posted December 13, 2005 11:10      Profile for Astronomer Jedi   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Wow, you actually know where Perth is?

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Estne volumen in toga, an solum tibi libet me videre?

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The Famous Druid

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Icon 1 posted December 13, 2005 11:38      Profile for The Famous Druid     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
The 'surface of the sun' thing seems to be part of the 'crackpot science' known as The Electric Universe.
It's not widely accepted.

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If you watch 'The History Of NASA' backwards, it's about a space agency that has no manned spaceflight capability, then does low-orbit flights, then lands on the Moon.

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GMx

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Icon 1 posted December 13, 2005 14:33      Profile for GMx     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Does that include Electronic Fog? [Roll Eyes] I saw that guy on a History Channel program about the Bermuda Triangle. Sounded like he'd had his head in some kind of fog too long.
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SaSa
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Icon 5 posted December 13, 2005 19:47      Profile for SaSa     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
So you guys don't think there's rocks in the sun? Then the sun is all liquidy, right?

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Lalala!

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Astronomer Jedi
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Icon 1 posted December 13, 2005 19:54      Profile for Astronomer Jedi   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
I thought it sounded like a crackpot idea. I haven't heard of The Electric Universe before, but it definitely sounds very similar. If it is such an amazing discovery and so much more logical, where are the models for stellar formation and stellar evolution?

Now that I've actually read the wiki article fully, aaaargh. It's linked to creationism. [Mad] I note that it also points out the lack of models.

This is a fun and ignorance destroying site that everyone should read. I also have the book. Phil Plait's Bad Astronomy [Applause]

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Estne volumen in toga, an solum tibi libet me videre?

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nerdwithnofriends
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Icon 1 posted December 14, 2005 20:46      Profile for nerdwithnofriends     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
While the rocky-sun page IS bogus, it doesn't say anything about liquid surrounding the sun; it said 'liquid-like'. This is probably a way of explaining how plasmas tend to create their own magnetic field and thus stay in a confined space while still moving around, much as a liquid does.

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"The Buddha, the Godhead, resides quite as comfortably in the circuits of a digital computer or the gears of a cycle transmission as he does at the top of a mountain or in the petals of a flower." - Robert M. Pirsig

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SaSa
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Icon 1 posted December 15, 2005 07:27      Profile for SaSa     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
ok then.

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Lalala!

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Astronomer Jedi
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Icon 1 posted December 15, 2005 07:58      Profile for Astronomer Jedi   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Any other questions you need answered, SaSa?

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Estne volumen in toga, an solum tibi libet me videre?

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littlefish
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Icon 1 posted December 15, 2005 11:52      Profile for littlefish   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
FWIW, I heard that the moon is going to be very bright tonight. Something to do with it being 5 degrees higher North than usual, or something. I saw it was bright last night, so I might have a look. Just thought I'd mention it.
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The Famous Druid

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Icon 1 posted December 15, 2005 12:11      Profile for The Famous Druid     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by littlefish:
FWIW, I heard that the moon is going to be very bright tonight. Something to do with it being 5 degrees higher North than usual, or something. I saw it was bright last night, so I might have a look. Just thought I'd mention it.

I'm reminded of a science fiction short story (Larry Niven?) in which the moon is unusually bright one night. The central character is a freelance science writer, who decides to do an article about it. He tried calling an astronomer friend in Europe, but for some reason he couldn't get a line, so he sits down at his typewriter and thinks "Lets see, moonlight is reflected sunlight, so if the moon is unusually bright .... Oh Shit!"
I think it was called "Flare Time" or something like that.

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If you watch 'The History Of NASA' backwards, it's about a space agency that has no manned spaceflight capability, then does low-orbit flights, then lands on the Moon.

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Sxeptomaniac

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Icon 1 posted December 15, 2005 12:35      Profile for Sxeptomaniac   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by The Famous Druid:
quote:
Originally posted by littlefish:
FWIW, I heard that the moon is going to be very bright tonight. Something to do with it being 5 degrees higher North than usual, or something. I saw it was bright last night, so I might have a look. Just thought I'd mention it.

I'm reminded of a science fiction short story (Larry Niven?) in which the moon is unusually bright one night. The central character is a freelance science writer, who decides to do an article about it. He tried calling an astronomer friend in Europe, but for some reason he couldn't get a line, so he sits down at his typewriter and thinks "Lets see, moonlight is reflected sunlight, so if the moon is unusually bright .... Oh Shit!"
I think it was called "Flare Time" or something like that.

The Outer Limits (newer series) did an episode very similar to that, so I'm assuming it was based on that story. It was interesting at the start, as the few people who understood what was going on had a dilemma regarding whether or not to tell everyone else, considering there was little that could be done to prepare in time.

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Let's pray that the human race never escapes from Earth to spread its iniquity elsewhere. - C. S. Lewis

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SaSa
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Icon 1 posted December 15, 2005 23:19      Profile for SaSa     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
My dad says the Seminoles call this kind of moon "Hunter's Moon", because you can hunt at night with the light. Couldn't it just be an ordinary Hunter's Moon?....Pooh, I can't see the moon...Too many clouds

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Lalala!

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Maggs
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Icon 1 posted December 16, 2005 06:11      Profile for Maggs     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Astronomer Jedi:
Wow, you actually know where Perth is?

Perth is in Australia, part of Oceania [Wink]
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Astronomer Jedi
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Icon 1 posted December 16, 2005 07:30      Profile for Astronomer Jedi   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Ah, but where in Australia? [Razz]

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Estne volumen in toga, an solum tibi libet me videre?

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garlicguy

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Icon 1 posted December 16, 2005 07:47      Profile for garlicguy   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Astronomer Jedi:
Ah, but where in Australia? [Razz]

The answer is here --> http://bullwinkle.toonzone.net/rwknow.wav

Edit: You'll have to paste the URL into your browser to get it to work. Sorry.

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I don't know what I was thinking... it seemed like a good idea at the time.

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Astronomer Jedi
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Icon 1 posted December 16, 2005 08:03      Profile for Astronomer Jedi   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
[Big Grin]

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Estne volumen in toga, an solum tibi libet me videre?

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