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Author Topic: It's been a couple of days now...
Geordie

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Icon 14 posted May 16, 2003 07:18      Profile for Geordie     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
So where are all the reviews of the Matrix Reloaded? I came here to find out what my favorite geek community thought of it.

I mean come on... ssh, nmap, and 23. It was total geek heaven. [Smile]

I was fortunate enough to have some friends who invited me to 10:00pm show on Thursday. I won't talk about the plot because I would hate to spoil it for anyone, but there were some interesting things I noticed from a technical standpoint.

Because the theater where I saw it does their movie trailers and promo stuff using a DLP projector and the actual movie was from standard film the benefits and drawbacks of the two mediums were easily contrasted. I think that the movie is a very good example of why current film technology is no longer adequate to represent what the director intended. The resolution is fine for most things but in the high action scenes of the movie, the 24 frames per second nature of film makes the CGI with live action look bad. When you have a hundred people all fighting together you end up with some people looking like they overlap because B is in the same place as A was in the next frame that was taken 40ms later. Fortunately in the context of the story one can just blame this on the Matrix not being able to do realtime computation and the characters actually do overlap. Maybe this is how the first people who rejected the Matrix and founded Zion realized that they were in a simulation.

Anyway bottom line is that it is a good movie that has lots of geek appeal. The faults of the projection technology do little to detract from some really awesome sfx.

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Geordie

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neotatsu
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Icon 1 posted May 17, 2003 01:05      Profile for neotatsu     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Spoilers insue...


seriously people, if you havn't seen it, don't read any further [Wink]


Hey, I'm talking to you! I said *DON'T* read it if you havn't seen the movie yet...


Damnit, if you insist on being that stupid, fine, be my guest, read on...


last chance...


here it comes....


I dunno, most people here seem to agree that no one really left the matrix, the prophecy was created as a part of the system, and so was 'zion', to control the 1% of the population who would refuse to believe that the matrix is the real world... Put the people who don't believe (albiet, unconciously (as stated by the architect)) in what will seem like a seperate reality, the 'real world', so their conciousnesses believe they are out of the matrix, when really, they are just in a broader version of it [Wink] . My current working theory has to do with the fact that all the 'one's before Neo went through the other door, so they never figured it out, unlike Neo... And when they *did* go through the door, they became the next person to create the 'prophecy' of 'the one'...

Though I personally know several people who didn't gather any of that, I think the movie is geared to the more intelligent of the population in that aspect, while the action is more eye candy for the rest of the schmoes out there [Wink]

On a side note, was it just me, or did anyone else get the impression that in the *actual* real world it's *alot* farther into the future than it is in the world where Zion exists? I mean several hundred years older... Just think what the architect said.. He originally created a world that was supposed to be perfect, without violence, etc, but human nature destroyed that, so he started over, and that one was also destroyed... Then he and the oracle created the current version of the matrix... and there's been at least six the 'one's before Neo, and supposed to be at least a hundred years inbetween each... (That's at least 600 years just in the current version, for those who need help with the count [Wink] ).. It stands to my reason that, considering the 'agents' in previous states of the matrix were posing as paranormal entities, I think it may just be reasonable to think that it may have actually started in the middle ages, and advanced from there, considering how much it'd take to completely wipe the memories of every human still plugged into the matrix every hundred years....

*cough*, anywho, I think I've ranted long enough... Satisfied now, Geordie?

[devil wand]

--------------------
I'm curious... About what, you ask? EVERYTHING!

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Slurpy
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Icon 1 posted May 17, 2003 13:18      Profile for Slurpy     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
quote:
Originally posted by Geordie:
So where are all the reviews of the Matrix Reloaded? I came here to find out what my favorite geek community thought of it.

Like here?

quote:
Fortunately in the context of the story one can just blame this on the Matrix not being able to do realtime computation and the characters actually do overlap. Maybe this is how the first people who rejected the Matrix and founded Zion realized that they were in a simulation.
Ha! That's what they get for using ATI's drivers!

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I must first reveal my personal bias in this discussion, since I worship at the 'First Church of PDF Really Sucks.'
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SpikeSpiegel
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Icon 1 posted May 17, 2003 14:44      Profile for SpikeSpiegel     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
i thought the movie had a few plot holes. such as how morpheus could hold out against the agent for so long. i mean in the original movie the agent beat the crap out of him after 30 seconds. otherwise i thought it had a decent plot and they were a lot more subtle with the philosophical waxing

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its been a while

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Lex
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Icon 1 posted May 17, 2003 16:27      Profile for Lex   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
He leveled up [Smile]

Sure, the agents have superhuman strength and speed. But so do the rebels. They just have to develop it. They can jump between skyscrapers and dodge bullets and that sort of thing. Trinity has a habit of jumping off/out of tall buildings. She would have been fine after that last one if she hadn't been shot. Given enough training and experience, any of them could beat an agent. Neo just makes it look so easy that we forget that it was once the others who had leet skillz.

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Your conviction that there is a monster under the bed would be a mere eccentricity if you weren't so heavily armed and it was your own bed.

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TMBWITW,PB

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Icon 1 posted May 17, 2003 19:33      Profile for TMBWITW,PB     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
But the agents got an upgrade! [Confused]
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SpikeSpiegel
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Icon 1 posted May 17, 2003 21:53      Profile for SpikeSpiegel     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
maybe neo bestowed upon morpheus the cheat codes

you know since he loves playing with god mode on [Wink]

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its been a while

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neotatsu
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Icon 1 posted May 17, 2003 22:15      Profile for neotatsu     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
quote:
Originally posted by SpikeSpiegel:
maybe neo bestowed upon morpheus the cheat codes

you know since he loves playing with god mode on [Wink]

Actually, I think a superman code is more fitting in the case of Neo... He can still take damage/get hurt, you just can't really kill him, and Trinity is his cryptonite... Then there's all that flying he does...

--------------------
I'm curious... About what, you ask? EVERYTHING!

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Slurpy
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Icon 1 posted May 18, 2003 02:28      Profile for Slurpy     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
quote:
Originally posted by SpikeSpiegel:
maybe neo bestowed upon morpheus the cheat codes

you know since he loves playing with god mode on [Wink]

"Morpheus! Type tilde, I, A, M, B, A, T, M, A, N, !"
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SpikeSpiegel
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Icon 1 posted May 18, 2003 09:59      Profile for SpikeSpiegel     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
so since neo can now control things in the real world(when he stopped the sentinels) and the matrix does that mean he has the ability to use the force?, nothing else other than mr4's crackpot theory comes up to explain why he can do that.

him and smith arent gonna be battling with lightsabers come Matrix revolutions are they?

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its been a while

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Tut-an-Geek

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Icon 1 posted May 18, 2003 10:14      Profile for Tut-an-Geek   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
For those of you who are missinformed and don't know of "Mr4's Crackpot theory" this is it:

There are actually dual layers of matrixes (at least), the first in which they contain all of the humans, and then in the second, it's a layer for the humans that realize that there is a matrix, and escape from it. It's another level of containment for them, for god knows what purpose.

Or, Maybe is it true that the machines are NOT controlling this second layer of matrix, and that it is someone or something ele that is taking advantage of the machines AND the humans. Or maybe the humans found their world to be dead, so moved to an artificial reality, and got destroyed in it.

Remind anyone of The Thirteenth Floor? Good movie. On tonight at 1700 EDT on Scifi

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SpikeSpiegel
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Icon 1 posted May 18, 2003 10:29      Profile for SpikeSpiegel     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
so maybe aliens came upon the world after the machines took over and made the second layer of the matrix?

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its been a while

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Sinn
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Icon 1 posted May 18, 2003 13:30      Profile for Sinn     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Did anyone else feel that the scene with the white-clad traffic controllers didn't mesh with the atmosphere of Zion? Everything in Zion seems so dirty and old, but in that room everyone was wearing new brilliant white clothes and using technology far greater that what is shown in the rest of the movie (ie: using the huge transparent touchscreen devices instead of keyboards like everywhere else)

Any ideas on what that means?

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Sin is a dangerous toy in the hands of the virtuous. It should be left to the congenitally sinful, who know when to play with it and when to let it alone.

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iankantian
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Icon 1 posted May 18, 2003 14:31      Profile for iankantian     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
The Zion docking controllers are performing their duties while "plugged in". They are in a "construct" similar to the "dojo" scene in the first movie. Their environment could have been a victorian garden and still be valid for the plot.
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Tut-an-Geek

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Icon 1 posted May 18, 2003 14:31      Profile for Tut-an-Geek   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
quote:
Originally posted by Sinn:
Did anyone else feel that the scene with the white-clad traffic controllers didn't mesh with the atmosphere of Zion? Everything in Zion seems so dirty and old, but in that room everyone was wearing new brilliant white clothes and using technology far greater that what is shown in the rest of the movie (ie: using the huge transparent touchscreen devices instead of keyboards like everywhere else)

Any ideas on what that means?

I thought that those people were simply in a simulation, to maximize space and allow for technology which would be a pain in the ass to build, but easy to design. Also, without the nasty limitations of gravity, etc. it would be easier to have total control over everything efficiently
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TMBWITW,PB

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Icon 1 posted May 18, 2003 14:34      Profile for TMBWITW,PB     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
quote:
Originally posted by iankantian:
The Zion docking controllers are performing their duties while "plugged in". They are in a "construct" similar to the "dojo" scene in the first movie. Their environment could have been a victorian garden and still be valid for the plot.

Welcome to the forums, sweetie. [hearts] [Big Grin]

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"Beauty is in the eye of the beholder and it may be necessary from time to time to give a stupid or misinformed beholder a black eye."
óMiss Piggy

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Sinn
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Icon 1 posted May 18, 2003 14:51      Profile for Sinn     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
quote:
Originally posted by ilovemydualg4:
I thought that those people were simply in a simulation, to maximize space and allow for technology which would be a pain in the ass to build, but easy to design. Also, without the nasty limitations of gravity, etc. it would be easier to have total control over everything efficiently

D'oh! I'm sorry, don't mind my stupidity. I dunno what I was thinking not to realize that.

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Sin is a dangerous toy in the hands of the virtuous. It should be left to the congenitally sinful, who know when to play with it and when to let it alone.

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Tut-an-Geek

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Icon 1 posted May 18, 2003 15:17      Profile for Tut-an-Geek   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
[Smile]
And they showed a few seconds where the controllers were in chairs plugged in [Smile]

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GVCarroll
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Icon 14 posted May 18, 2003 21:28      Profile for GVCarroll     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
The other issue is that Cypher is alive (and causing problems to boot), when he was so obviously fried in the first film. That combined with Neo downing the Sentinels strongly suggests to me that it's a Matrix-within-a-Matrix.

Had to take a bathroom break in the middle of The Architect's speech, though. Grrr. I hate that.

Anyway, I liked it. Kind of had split personality disorder (action scene-philosophy lesson-action scene-philosophy lesson, etc.) which was a little more seamless in the first one. And it feels a lot more like a 2-part film where the second part is so bloody long it has to be split in half, rather than a trilogy per se.

The Burly Brawl was hyped but I thought the car chase kicked. That head-on collision at the end was wicked. [Smile]

Felt sad that the woman who played The Oracle passed away not too long ago. [Frown]

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TMBWITW,PB

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Icon 1 posted May 19, 2003 00:06      Profile for TMBWITW,PB     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
quote:
Originally posted by GVCarroll:
The other issue is that Cypher is alive (and causing problems to boot),

What?! [Confused]

Cypher did get fried in the first one. The actor isn't even in this one.

The guy that Agent Smith took over is someone entirely different (that's the only person I can imagine you referring to), and has to be since Cypher definitely wouldn't be allowed back to Zion.

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neotatsu
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Icon 1 posted May 19, 2003 00:07      Profile for neotatsu     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
quote:
Originally posted by ilovemydualg4:
For those of you who are missinformed and don't know of "Mr4's Crackpot theory" this is it:

There are actually dual layers of matrixes (at least), the first in which they contain all of the humans, and then in the second, it's a layer for the humans that realize that there is a matrix, and escape from it. It's another level of containment for them, for god knows what purpose.

Or, Maybe is it true that the machines are NOT controlling this second layer of matrix, and that it is someone or something ele that is taking advantage of the machines AND the humans. Or maybe the humans found their world to be dead, so moved to an artificial reality, and got destroyed in it.

Okay, I'll mention it again, since some people aren't paying attention to *MY* crackpot theories [Wink] ( [Razz] )

The whole thing is explained in the scene where Neo's talking to the Architect. The reason for Zion is that there's 1% of people who refuse to believe the matrix is real (albiet, subconciously), so they created Zion... The humans put in Zion believe it's the real world because it seems like it is to them (The way they get jacked out of the matrix, etc...), but in reality, it's another part of the matrix. They search through the other half of the matrix for the 1% who 'refuse to believe', and they rescue them... After years and years, the 'anomaly', or 'the one' is born, and it brings about what's basically a 'reset' of Zion, before they can get too powerful to be controled... OH! OH SMEG! HAhaha, I just realized the bit I'm about to say actually happens in Enter the Matrix game (so don't read it if you wan't to play the game, though it really dosn't ruin the game...)

/don't read

You visit the Oracle in the game, and she mentions a 'child of two programs'... My personal belief is that she was refering to Neo... Which only makes sense if the world in which Zion exists is still part of the matrix, which only makes sense based on Neo's ability to stop the machines... Though I could be completely wrong, and she could be just making reference to her and the Architect's 'child', or, the matrix [Wink]

/you can read now

Anywho, Neo is different than all the 'One's before him, he didn't go through the other door and destroy everyone in Zion, and start a new one, being the person to create the 'prophecy' (you remember that there was the 'first' one to discover the matrix and escape, and start Zion, and 'prophecie(sp?)' that there would be one to come that would be his 'reincarnation' that would end the war against the machines... Though technically, by bringing out the destruction of Zion, he *is* effectively ending that war (and starting a new one [Razz] )...

Really now, it's a fairly simple thing to figure out if you're smart enough [Wink] *note* You can all force feed me crow at [email protected] (if I'm not around the forums anymore) should my theories prove wrong come the third movie [Wink]

[devil wand]

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csk

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Icon 1 posted May 19, 2003 01:15      Profile for csk     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
OK, YAMT (yet another matrix theory).

This one's unlikely since Keanu Reeves said in an interview that the Matrix isn't going to pull any Six Sense style trick endings. But...

What if the entire thing is actually a computer program? What if the war between man and machines never happened? Could the Matrix really be an advanced AI experiment, in trying to get a computer program to make a "human" choice?

(SPOILER BIT)...


In other words, the choice between the fate of "humanity" and saving Trinity would be fairly easy for a simple AI. It would weigh up the total cost of one decision versus the other, and take a calculated risk. For Neo to decide the way he does of his own accord would be a ground breaking step in AI. In this case, the Architect would be the human in the real world who developed this complex computer system, hence his interest in how Neo reacts differently in each incarnation. If what Neo, Trinity, etc think is the "real world" is actually still inside a computer system, then that explains why Neo's powers may cross over between them. Either that, or someone else EMPed the sentinels (possible), or Neo has evolved his mind to a higher level than everyone else (Keanu Reeves being on a higher mental plane than the rest of humanity is a scary thought, so I tend to disregard that possibility [Wink] )

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neotatsu
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Icon 1 posted May 19, 2003 02:10      Profile for neotatsu     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
quote:
Originally posted by csk:
OK, YAMT (yet another matrix theory).

This one's unlikely since Keanu Reeves said in an interview that the Matrix isn't going to pull any Six Sense style trick endings. But...

What if the entire thing is actually a computer program? What if the war between man and machines never happened? Could the Matrix really be an advanced AI experiment, in trying to get a computer program to make a "human" choice?

(SPOILER BIT)...


In other words, the choice between the fate of "humanity" and saving Trinity would be fairly easy for a simple AI. It would weigh up the total cost of one decision versus the other, and take a calculated risk. For Neo to decide the way he does of his own accord would be a ground breaking step in AI. In this case, the Architect would be the human in the real world who developed this complex computer system, hence his interest in how Neo reacts differently in each incarnation. If what Neo, Trinity, etc think is the "real world" is actually still inside a computer system, then that explains why Neo's powers may cross over between them. Either that, or someone else EMPed the sentinels (possible), or Neo has evolved his mind to a higher level than everyone else (Keanu Reeves being on a higher mental plane than the rest of humanity is a scary thought, so I tend to disregard that possibility [Wink] )

Actually, I have the thought that Neo could be actually a computer program embedded into my theory.. Though you'll have to look through the last post to find that reference [Wink]

[devil wand]

--------------------
I'm curious... About what, you ask? EVERYTHING!

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GVCarroll
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Icon 1 posted May 19, 2003 10:47      Profile for GVCarroll     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
quote:
Originally posted by TMBWITW,PB:
The guy that Agent Smith took over is someone entirely different (that's the only person I can imagine you referring to), and has to be since Cypher definitely wouldn't be allowed back to Zion. [/QB]

Er. Okay, so there's that shot at the very end that pans from the comatose Neo to another guy on a table (we see his face upside down) is the guy that Smith took over earlier in the film?

I coulda sworn that was Cypher, same bald head and the goatee thing going on. I figured he hand't been allowed back into Zion per se, but somehow sabatoged the hovercraft offensive with an EMP device.

It makes more sense that it's the guy Smith took over though, because otherwise that plot point wouldn't go anywhere. That whole thing confused me at the time because how could Smith get into "the real world" after picking up the phone? That wouldn't make any sense until later on in the film.

Methinks I need to see this again in order to, ahem, decypher it better. Hehe.

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codeonezero
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Icon 1 posted May 19, 2003 11:04      Profile for codeonezero     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Ok, here's my crack pot theory on as to why Neo was able to stop the machines.

This ignores the whole matrix within matrix idea.

Back in the first movie, we hear all about how much btu's the human body generates, effectively energy. And how humans could not find a way to harness it.

Now assume that Neo is the one, and in a sense a highly advanced human (mutant).

Then with this level of advancement he is able to harness the electrical activity of his own body to create a an EMP shockwave. Thus this exhausts his energy hence he's in a comma (temporarily).

Something similar might have happened with the agent smith reprogrammed human. Except in his case he used it to protect himself from the machines, as they destroyed Zion.

Also consider how the machines are said to have "kept on digging" after they got done with Zion.

So what's up with that? [Smile]

I don't think they are digging a hole to China.

Methinks that perhaps there's something else there. Perhaps more survivors...

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Codito Ergo Sum
http://homepage.mac.com/estebanuribe

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