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Author Topic: We brought it back!!!
geekygoddess
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Icon 1 posted April 19, 2009 15:40      Profile for geekygoddess     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Yay! I am loving the new and improved GC. I have not seen it this busy around here in quite some time...I feel like the dark days of trolling around here are finally over...Long Live GeekCulture!!!

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"It is better to press ones shirt, than ones luck"- Confucius

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Snaggy

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Icon 14 posted April 19, 2009 15:56      Profile for Snaggy   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
ha ha I was just thinking.. "whoa, the Forums are busy!"

I guess going on a vacation helped! [Razz]

(the ever-lovin' energizer fs helps too) [Applause]

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Infinitesimal
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Icon 1 posted April 19, 2009 16:55      Profile for Infinitesimal     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
I guess everyone is determined to block out the noise with a healthy dose of signal.

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That which doesn't kill you can only make you stronger. Therefore I am damn near indestructable.

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fs

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Icon 1 posted April 20, 2009 03:09      Profile for fs   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
The day R/P/CA shows up blank because all the discussions have aged out of the default "show topics" range, I'm cracking open our fancy bottle of hungarian wine that we've been saving for a special occasion.

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I'm in ur database, makin' moar recordz.

Posts: 1973 | From: The Cat Ship | Registered: Mar 2002  |  IP: Logged
Rednivek

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Icon 1 posted April 29, 2009 09:05      Profile for Rednivek     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
I saw "Put the Geek back in Geek Culture" in the IRC channel and thought about The Geek from AfterY2K. I remembered 1999 and the great economy and how everyone was so excited about Y2K. It was a lot of fun. Then 9/11 came and our friendships were squandered over the agenda of fruitcakes for 8 years...

So, some people fell into the traps of the divisive behaviors of the fruitcakes, and it will take a while for them to get out.... but now we have hope again and are turning back the pages. We may once again have pride in creating rather than consuming and things may once again be optimistic.

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Rednivek - Detroit, Michigan, USA

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fs

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Icon 1 posted May 15, 2009 12:13      Profile for fs   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
I just saw this post on Lifehacker.

I think it's pretty cool that we managed to turn everything around here at GC without Snaggy having to get all medieval or anything. (Though honestly, I don't think any amount of banhammer will solve the issue... it's up to the users to decide on standards and conduct themselves acccordingly. Like us. Cause we are AWESOME. [Smile] )

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I'm in ur database, makin' moar recordz.

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TheMoMan
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Icon 1 posted May 15, 2009 15:17      Profile for TheMoMan         Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
___________________ fs __ I like discourse it makes thing interesting, with out name calling. Who wants to be The Devils Advocate?

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Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.


Benjamin Franklin,

Posts: 5835 | From: Just South of the Huron National Forest, in the water shed of the Rifle River | Registered: Sep 2002  |  IP: Logged
Grummash

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Icon 1 posted May 15, 2009 15:30      Profile for Grummash     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
MoMan - if I find people getting into a bit of an argument at work, I use the following script:

"Look, I know you two are only getting agitated because you each passionately believe that you are right and the other person is wrong......

...but whichever of you is actually right, you can speak quietly and you will still be just as right."

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...and yet, across the gulf of space, minds immeasurably superior to ours regarded this earth with envious eyes...

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TheMoMan
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Icon 1 posted May 16, 2009 04:27      Profile for TheMoMan         Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
________________ Grummash __ Since you spoke up right after I posted, I would guess that you want to be the new DEVILS ADVOCATE!!!

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Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.


Benjamin Franklin,

Posts: 5835 | From: Just South of the Huron National Forest, in the water shed of the Rifle River | Registered: Sep 2002  |  IP: Logged
Grummash

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Icon 1 posted May 16, 2009 16:43      Profile for Grummash     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Devil's advocate is a useful role to play in any debate - done well it can inject fresh thinking into
stagnating arguments.

I have no problem playing Devil's advocate when I think it can re-focus a debate on the core topic.

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...and yet, across the gulf of space, minds immeasurably superior to ours regarded this earth with envious eyes...

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MacManKrisK

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Icon 1 posted May 29, 2009 14:00      Profile for MacManKrisK     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by fs:
The day R/P/CA shows up blank because all the discussions have aged out of the default "show topics" range, I'm cracking open our fancy bottle of hungarian wine that we've been saving for a special occasion.

... We're getting close ...

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"Buy low, sell high
get rich and you still die"


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TheMoMan
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Icon 1 posted May 30, 2009 03:42      Profile for TheMoMan         Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
______________________ TheMoMan ____

Is going to recycle an old debate, Universal Health Care. Does the world or the USA need such a thing.

Here in the states we some what have Universal Coverage, in that treatment can not be refused for Critical Patients. The Hospital absorbs the cost and passes it on to paying Customers. So, many that are against UHC are actually paying for it, just not through Taxes.

It kind of works like Shop Lifting. In the end everybody pays.

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Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.


Benjamin Franklin,

Posts: 5835 | From: Just South of the Huron National Forest, in the water shed of the Rifle River | Registered: Sep 2002  |  IP: Logged
Stibbons
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Icon 1 posted May 31, 2009 13:00      Profile for Stibbons   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by TheMoMan:
To recycle an old debate, Universal Health Care. Does the world or the USA need such a thing.

Yes. Works out for the ethical (everyone gets an equal chance of being healthy) and economic (cheaper all round).
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GrumpySteen

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Icon 1 posted May 31, 2009 18:55      Profile for GrumpySteen     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
TheMoMan wrote:
Here in the states we some what have Universal Coverage, in that treatment can not be refused for Critical Patients.

Tell that to Esmin Green.

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TheMoMan
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Icon 1 posted June 01, 2009 03:16      Profile for TheMoMan         Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
____________________ GrumpySteen __

Good point, that just goes to prove that we here in the USA need UHC. Not the mess we have.

Too many people are having to make bad choices about health care or eating.

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Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.


Benjamin Franklin,

Posts: 5835 | From: Just South of the Huron National Forest, in the water shed of the Rifle River | Registered: Sep 2002  |  IP: Logged
tweety
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Icon 1 posted June 01, 2009 22:37      Profile for tweety   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
GeekyGoddess – Now I feel ashamed for not having been around here much as of late. Been absorbed in my own life happenings and haven't been feeling the vibe, if that makes sense.

MoMan/GrumpySteen – UHC, if done right, would bring a world of good to many that I know, including myself. Let me quickly run down a list:

- Paternal Grandmother: old age related illnesses leading to kidney failure. In-home dialysis and hospital treatments wipe my grandfather out.

- My Mother: passed away from colon cancer May '01. Even with my father's good health plan it still cost plenty.

- Paternal Grandfather: Beyond Medicare/Medicaid, I believe his fairly wealthy girlfriend paid for much of his medical expenses, but don't quote me on that. Never asked, never was asked.

- Stepmother: Colon cancer survivor, retired school teacher so has not only Medicare/Medicaid but I also believe the State healthcare that all the politicians get. Believe my father also gets the same benefits.

- Eldest Brother: A combination of HMO and crappy doctors allowed a liposarcoma tumor to grow to the size of a football. No updates as of yet regarding whether or not the tumor was benign.

- Mrs Tweety: HMO as a teenager, combined with crappy doctors meant an infection went uncured/barely treated for a year. Took surgery to clean it out.

There's been much, much more, but I won't bore you all with the details. It's my firm belief that this country needs a solid UHC system combined with private insurers. A way for everyone to have access to healthcare without having to declare bankruptcy in order to receive the best healthcare, yet a system that is open and flexible enough to allow competition and choice.

Call me a Socialist if you must. But, I fail to understand how healthcare, the actual action of providing healthcare from doctor to patient, can be considered a business. Restaurants I understand, you don't ever have to eat out. Farms, in a gray area. Many could grow their own food, or at least get a group of neighbors/friends together to grow food, like a kibbutz. Still, we would need others to grow food for the many. But, doctors are life preservers, savers and givers. If life is so precious to our species, how can we place a price on its maintenance and deny the sick care because they are poor? If anyone can provide a logical, reasoned* answer to that question then I'll fight against UHC in the US.

*Logical and reasoned meaning not something a nutjob would find logical or reasoned. I'll be the judge of the sanity of any argument presented to me.

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If I were a good man I'd talk to you more often than I do.
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TheMoMan
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Icon 1 posted June 02, 2009 03:15      Profile for TheMoMan         Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
__________________ tweety ________ I want to add some more talking points. Here in the USA we have:

20th on Child Mortality

Lower expectations on longevity

More expensive than any other.

Many people point their fingers at the rich autoworkers benefits package, each and every one of those coverages was paid for by not getting a wage increase. Each contract renewal when productivity and Cost of living was rolled in, we lost some of that for each benefit. Dental & Eye Care each cost Twenty Cents per hour for two years prior to their start. That means that each and every big three employee put up Four Hundred a year for two years before the plan started. I never drew out as much as I put in. after each benefit at contract the company would plead poverty and give us a sob story, and then hand out the executive benefits wage package, sure did not seem like they were impoverished to me.

I remember my Father who used to bring people like Ed. Cole and John DeLoren to our house, commented when Ed Cole retired and the bean counters took over running GM, "Well thats the beginning of the end of GM."

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Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.


Benjamin Franklin,

Posts: 5835 | From: Just South of the Huron National Forest, in the water shed of the Rifle River | Registered: Sep 2002  |  IP: Logged
Ashitaka

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Icon 1 posted June 02, 2009 06:09      Profile for Ashitaka     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by TheMoMan:
__________________ tweety ________ I never drew out as much as I put in.

this sentance stood out.

That is how things like this have to work. Most people think they have to get more out of health insurance than they put in or it isn't worth it.

This drives me crazy. I have never gotten more money out of my insurance than what I put in. It doesn't work if everyone does.

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"If they're not gonna make a distinction between Muslims and violent extremists, then why should I take the time to distinguish between decent, fearful white people and racists?"

-Assif Mandvi

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Stereo

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Icon 1 posted June 02, 2009 07:50      Profile for Stereo     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Ashitaka:
quote:
Originally posted by TheMoMan:
__________________ tweety ________ I never drew out as much as I put in.

this sentance stood out.

That is how things like this have to work. Most people think they have to get more out of health insurance than they put in or it isn't worth it.

This drives me crazy. I have never gotten more money out of my insurance than what I put in. It doesn't work if everyone does.

I wholeheartedly agree. Insurance (health, vehicle, housing, loans, etc. - except for life, which works on a completely different premise), is for peace of mind. Most people will never get as much as they put in. Some will even never need it back. But if the worse hits, you're not left to worry about money over your injury or loss. This is a form of socialism, since those who don't need it pay for those who do (and for the profits of the insurers).

Talking of profits, this is why I think private health care is stupid (sorry if I hurt any sensibility here, but that's what I think). Beacause private health giver not only pay for the doctors, the nurses, the equipment, the building and the rest, they also have to line their investor's pocket. Otherwise, nobody would invest in them. While a public health care... Sure there can be some waste that could be cut in a competitive environment, but there is no greed involved. (Well, except perhaps when it comes to renew the unions' contracts, but if I look at what happens around me, it's not as much greed as being paid to fit the importance of the work done, and the dedication needed from the caregivers.)

In Quebec, there is very few ultra-rich doctors. My uncle is a generalist (six children, and they had to share bedrooms while growing up), and my sister-in-law's father is a specialist (well off, but not extra-wealthy - or he hides it very well). But a homeless still gets the same health care as anyone (except for those wealthy enough to pay for the extras).

Hmm, this post is too long already, so I'll stop at that.

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Eppur, si muove!

Galileo Galilei

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tweety
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Icon 1 posted June 02, 2009 12:44      Profile for tweety   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
I hope no one thinks I was saying that you should get as much as or more out of insurance than you put in. I don't think that at all. What I do think is that the insurance industry and the medical industry in the US are overrun by greed and ineptitude. When I was living in FL I was involved in a pretty nasty car accident. I was airlifted (nothing was actually wrong, just the wind knocked out of me, and some nasty bruising) to the hospital. All was fine until the bill for the helicopter came in. The medical copter company demanded payment, in full, of $14,000 (which I didn't have) right away. Meanwhile, my health insurance company was fighting with the auto insurance company, and they were both fighting with the lawyers.

The medical copter company started flinging the threats my way, from collections to lawsuits to ruining my credit forever. There may even have been a conversation about extracting every last penny I'd ever earn from my children's children. Instead of being able to fully concentrate on healing (my hip and back have never been the same) I was fighting with a company, which, it turns out, was overly aggressive because they were in financial trouble, were just bought out, and the woman who I was dealing with was getting the boot.

It's that kind of behavior that needs to be fixed. We need more compassion in health care, not cold, heartless bean counters. Unfortunately, I don't foresee any sort of legislation that will cure those ills, not even Socialized medicine. (Don't even ask me about the horror stories of medicine under Communist Russia.)

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Stereo

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Icon 1 posted June 02, 2009 13:43      Profile for Stereo     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by tweety:
I hope no one thinks I was saying that you should get as much as or more out of insurance than you put in.

Err, right. It's easy to forget that GC is a place where most of the posters know about statistics and probability calculus. [blush]

(Airlifted for no apparent dangerous injuries? Isn't there a way to prevent abusive "medical" practices and the equally abusive bills that come in tow? [shake head] )

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Galileo Galilei

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Xanthine

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Icon 1 posted June 02, 2009 13:45      Profile for Xanthine     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Stereo, the decision to airlift is not made to abuse people. When EMTs respond to a scene, they're looking at everything, the condition of the patient and the condition of the scene. I can not understate how powerful an analgesic compensated shock is. Patients report no pain, their vitals look okay for a while, but then they start coming undone at the hospital because, as it turns out, they were bleeding internally the whole time. So, if the car looks bad but the patient claims they're feeling okay, the EMTs won't believe them. Also, responders are working against the golden hour: in a case of major trauma, the best outcomes happen when the patient reaches the operating room within one hour of the injury. That clock starts as soon as the accident occurs. So, if you're in an accident and you seem okay, but your car is destroyed, you're going in with the lights on, whether you like it or not. And if you're outside a certain radius from the nearest Level 1 or 2 trauma center, your ass is getting flown. And if you're too far away for a direct airlift, they take you to the nearest podunk hospital, stabilize you as best they can (or can't), and then either fly or drive you to the trauma center.

That said, the billing practices of the company tweety dealt with were abusive.

My family was fortunate in that, when Sisthine got sick, the insurance we had was a very nice plan with absolutely minimal bullshit. They had flat co-pays for doctor's visits that covered any and all testing, the co-pays for surgeries and hospitilizations were reasonable, there were two and only two rates for perscriptions: $15 for patented drugs, $5 for generics. And considering that some of teh drugs Sisthine took were over $1000 per dose, I'd say that was reasonable.

When I went away to grad school, I had aged off my family's plan and had to enroll in the university's insurance. The great SUV incident of 2006 was hard in that regard. Much more bullshit involved than what I was used to under my family's plan. And the billing process was slow like molasses and there was some dispute and I would get repeat bills as my insurer first agreed and then refused and then reagreed to cover me. Fortunately, the ENT taking care of me and my busted nose was a cool guy with cool staff and when I called them going "WTF" they told me to just hang in there, they'd get it sorted out. They were also cool enough to work out an installment plan with the final payments.

When I started my post-doc, I became a federal employee and got my pick of insurance plans. I found the equivalent of what I had growing up. Same carrier as what my family had, different name for the plan, but the benefits and minimal bullshit are what I remember. The premiums are also higher than most of the other options, but my pay is good enough that I feel like I can swallow that. In my family, we tend to be healthy and then very suddenly and catastrophically unhealthy, so being un- or under-insured is frightening.

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And it's one, two, three / On the wrong side of the lee / What were you meant for? / What were you meant for?
- The Decemberists

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Icon 1 posted June 02, 2009 16:24      Profile for tweety   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Stereo:
Err, right. It's easy to forget that GC is a place where most of the posters know about statistics and probability calculus. [blush]

Seems we have a bit of confusion over here. I was writing from a language perspective, not a mathematical one. In fact, never thought of your original comment in mathematical terms. I just wanted to make sure no one thought I was suggesting anything nutty and generally trying to be a looney. Hence, my "Gee, hope no one thought …" comment. Anyway, enough said, let's move on.

Xanthine is right, the EMTs thought I had massive internal bleeding. Though, if I did I would most likely have been dead by the time they reached us; it took them 45 minutes to respond, from what I was told. This happened in unincorporated Kissimmee, which at the time was halfway to Nowhere, FL. So, the helicopter came and whisked me away. Once the emergency room docs realized I was fine they let me lay about until Mrs Tweety came. It was she who got rid of all the little glass bits in my face and hands and put the skin back in place. The scars are nearly invisible.

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If I were a good man I'd talk to you more often than I do.
American Fairy Tales
IT, A Philosophy

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TheMoMan
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Icon 1 posted June 02, 2009 18:14      Profile for TheMoMan         Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
________________________ Ashitaka __

I was not trying to milk the system, however it was stacked against the workers, by the end of the first year of coverage, each worker had paid in Six Hundred Dollars however the max payouts for various treatments even with a family of Eight or more would not get your money back. Family benefits Max preserved the fund. Vision coverage cost even more vs covered benefits.

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Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.


Benjamin Franklin,

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Ashitaka

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Icon 1 posted June 03, 2009 00:32      Profile for Ashitaka     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Xanthine:
Patients report no pain, their vitals look okay for a while, but then they start coming undone at the hospital because, as it turns out, they were bleeding internally the whole time. So, if the car looks bad but the patient claims they're feeling okay, the EMTs won't believe them.

I guess the EMT's that responded to my car crash failed then. After tehy pulled me outthrough the window and I started to walk around they asked me if I wanted to go to the hospital and I said no, I just had a bump on my head. they asked me if I was 18 , I said yes, then they gave me a form to sign and drove off.

My car was wrecked so bad the police officers didn't believe me when they had to ask me the make and model of my car for thier police report. The car that hit me was the same make and model and they just couldn't see that. Turns out now I have never remembered the crash or the few minutes leading up to the crash. Though every whitness said it was not my fault as oncoming traffic on her cell made a left turn right into me on a country road, I was going ca 55 mph.

It's a shame I don't remember though. Memories of rolling upside down through the air in a car would be pretty cool to have.

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"If they're not gonna make a distinction between Muslims and violent extremists, then why should I take the time to distinguish between decent, fearful white people and racists?"

-Assif Mandvi

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