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Author Topic: 2 short months
Mac D
BlabberMouth, the Next Generation
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Icon 1 posted April 25, 2006 11:27      Profile for Mac D     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Religion was created by governments to control the masses thousands of years ago. Why it is still around I have no clue.

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There's nothing wrong with me, This is how I'm supposed to be.

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drunkennewfiemidget
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Icon 1 posted April 25, 2006 11:28      Profile for drunkennewfiemidget     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
GameMaster: Game. Set. Match.

Well played, sir.

[Applause]

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Mac D
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Icon 1 posted April 25, 2006 11:39      Profile for Mac D     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Ok just for the record I would like to say, When I was growing up my mother was Catholic and my Father Luthren. I went to School at St.Johns in Chaska, MN (Yes I went to a private luthren school)

Most every thing that they tought there was told to us as fact. There is no disputing anything in the bible.

If this where true why is prostitution ilegal? Barley a "Book" goes by that someone doesn't get one. They call them different things from book to book but they are there. But if it's ok to get a prostitute (According to the bible) Then why is it not ok to have pre-marital sex or infedelity? If you went to a prostitue you would be doing one or the other wouldn't you? There really is no in between.

Also we learned nothing as far as history outside of this book. When I got to public high school and started to learn of all the other stuff that happened in the world not to mention something called Science I was floored. How could I have been lied to for so long?

So yes at that time I started to doubt things I had learned and the more I looked into every thing including looking at other religions (Didn't even knew there was more then other then Christianity till I got to high school) And the more I would read and learn the more I saw this whole thing as someone elses hobby.

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There's nothing wrong with me, This is how I'm supposed to be.

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drunkennewfiemidget
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Icon 1 posted April 25, 2006 11:44      Profile for drunkennewfiemidget     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
That's why religion was invented in the first place: to control the masses.

And its succeeded -- to some extent.

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nerdwithnofriends
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Icon 1 posted April 25, 2006 11:55      Profile for nerdwithnofriends     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by GameMaster:
And He hath said,

.
.
.

[b]So, in order to change the subject, can I get some punnage over here?


Oh, so you prefer another mindless pun-fest to something that may have real value?

In this situation? Yes, I do. I have never, ever seen a religious 'discussion' come out with anything productive. Maybe I'm just cynical, but I just don't see anything good coming out of this. Perhaps if another thread was started for the sole purpose of comparing religions and getting members' viewpoints on them, but not here, where all we are really talking about is what one person thinks about pre-marital sex because of what she believes and we have a whole host of other people who will flame her from here to hell and back if the conversation keeps going.

The problem is, basically every 'intellectual' i've ever spoken with has been either an agnostic or an atheist. yes, there are exceptions, but even within our geeky circles there are the 'cool kids', and in this particular instance, all of the 'cool kids' hate christianity. Which is cool enough, like I said earlier, we probably all believe what we believe for a reason.

However, the very fact that someone might be christian seems to lower that person's respectability in everyone elses' eyes. I truly don't think there can be any real discussion about these things.

Basically, you aren't really willing to listen. From what I've seen, you just want to pick apart what Rhonwyyn has to say, and for what reason I do not know. But if you really want to understand what she thinks, why don't you just PM her or something?

This conversation has gone to 'hey, I want someone to talk to' to 'no sex before marriage!' to 'I DON'T HAVE TO LISTEN TO YOU BECAUSE YOU HAVE DIFFERENT BELIEFS', and now we're here.

Yes, Rhonny may have made a rather... difficult... comment when she said that Mac D should write to his ex because he is obligated to. Then she tries to support herself with what she believes. But all the evidence she's used to using, nobody will accept because to everyone else, the Bible is just another text that may or may not be true. This conversation is going to be no more successful than Rhonny would be at trying to convert you all into Evangelical Christians using nothing but quotes from the Book.

I just can't see any sincerity when you say you 'just want to understand what people believe'. If that was the case, you'd read what rhonny had to say, then reply with little more than an 'okay, I get it.' Such as it is, you are only trying to prove your beliefs as more correct or better grounded than hers.

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"The Buddha, the Godhead, resides quite as comfortably in the circuits of a digital computer or the gears of a cycle transmission as he does at the top of a mountain or in the petals of a flower." - Robert M. Pirsig

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dragonman97

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Icon 1 posted April 25, 2006 12:12      Profile for dragonman97   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
nwnf: I wouldn't state as a fact that people dismiss others if they are Christian, or hold any other religous beliefs. What most of us object to is having religion shoved down our throats, without any consideration or regard to logic.

I don't dislike garlicguy...he's Christian - hell, I think he's a pretty great person. He has a rather good value system, but there's no reason that must be attributed to religious belief. He has a sense of humor, and is perfectly willing to poke fun at things that a 'fundie' might feel impossible to say.

You are correct that some of us are basically talking over each other, but unfortunately in this case, almost no one is willing to listen to the other. This is largely due to the fact that rational thought is not being employed. (Sorry, faith-based arguments are impossible to discuss rationally when presented in an "I'm right, you're wrong [and damned to hell!]" manner.)

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There are three things you can be sure of in life: Death, taxes, and reading about fake illnesses online...

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Xanthine

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Icon 1 posted April 25, 2006 12:38      Profile for Xanthine     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Trouble is dman, religion is by it's very nature faith-based and therefore very difficult to discuss rationally, especially if you're trying to prove oe belief system better than the other. Add in the strong emotions people attach to their beliefs and you've got a mess.

The relgious discussions that I have eihter witnessed or been involved in had one of two things going for them. Either the parties involved came from the same belief system and therefore felt like they had some established facts to work with or it wasn't so much a debate as a compare/contrast type of discussion (This is what I believe...what do you believe?). The latter I rather enjoy listening in on because it's interesting to see how different groups have tackled the same basic problems of being humans.

As far as religion being invented thousands of years ago to control the masses, well, thousands of years later there's still governments and masses to be controlled. I think there is aother component to relgiion and faith in general, and that is it can explain the inexplicable and answer the hard questions. And as long as the inexplicable exists, and the hard questions remain unanswered, faith and religion will also exist.

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And it's one, two, three / On the wrong side of the lee / What were you meant for? / What were you meant for?
- The Decemberists

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Rhonwyyn

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Icon 1 posted April 25, 2006 12:46      Profile for Rhonwyyn   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Wow. Did I just get called a "fundy"? And here I thought I was actually more of a liberal Christian, y'know what with hanging out with marginalized individuals and all that. But then again, Jesus hung out with marginalized people, so if that makes me "fundy," I'll embrace that label. [Razz]

MacD: I'm curious... where does the Bible say to seek out prostitutes for sex? Both the Old Testament and New Testament have passages that advise against it, but I don't know that any explicitly tell a man to seek out a prostitute. Yes, God commanded Hosea to marry Gomer, the prostitute, but he was faithful to her throughout all of the pain through which she put him. God's point was to show how the Children of Israel had been unfaithful to God, but that He would still remain faithful to them. Yes, they did have that odd practice of concubinage and multiple wives, but that became phased out over the years, particularly because of marriage/cleavage to women of foreign religions who distracted the Children of Israel from their relationship with God.

EDIT: Changed DNM to MacD.

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Sxeptomaniac

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Icon 1 posted April 25, 2006 12:46      Profile for Sxeptomaniac   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Mac D:
Religion was created by governments to control the masses thousands of years ago. Why it is still around I have no clue.

I've heard that one before. I've never actually heard any evidence/examples to back that up, though.

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Let's pray that the human race never escapes from Earth to spread its iniquity elsewhere. - C. S. Lewis

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drunkennewfiemidget
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Icon 1 posted April 25, 2006 12:49      Profile for drunkennewfiemidget     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Rhonwyyn:
DNM: I'm curious... where does the Bible say to seek out prostitutes for sex? Both the Old Testament and New Testament have passages that advise against it, but I don't know that any explicitly tell a man to seek out a prostitute. Yes, God commanded Hosea to marry Gomer, the prostitute, but he was faithful to her throughout all of the pain through which she put him. God's point was to show how the Children of Israel had been unfaithful to God, but that He would still remain faithful to them. Yes, they did have that odd practice of concubinage and multiple wives, but that became phased out over the years, particularly because of marriage/cleavage to women of foreign religions who distracted the Children of Israel from their relationship with God.

I wasn't the one that made that particular argument, I don't believe.
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Rhonwyyn

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Icon 1 posted April 25, 2006 12:55      Profile for Rhonwyyn   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Oops! It was MacD, not you, DNM. I'm sorry!! [Frown]

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ooby
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Icon 1 posted April 25, 2006 13:13      Profile for ooby     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Ya: My girlfriend's roomate, a pagan, has a humorous bumper sticker that reads, "Freedom of religion means any religion."

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"haven't you ever wondered if there's more to life than being really, really, rediculously good looking?"

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Stereo

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Icon 1 posted April 25, 2006 13:16      Profile for Stereo     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
And Rhonwyyn, nobody called you a fundamentalist, Dman only stated that fundamentalists may dislike some of Garlicguy's comments. Take a deep breath; because many GCers disagree with your faith (me included, I may add) doesn't mean we don't respect you.

Overall, I'm with Xanthine.

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Eppur, si muove!

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GameMaster
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Icon 1 posted April 25, 2006 13:20      Profile for GameMaster   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Very few here agree with my politics; and yet nerdwithnofriends, you don't step in to try and stop political debate. [edit: I realize that I get myself into the arguments in those threads, but should we ban such disscussion becuase they turn into yelling matches between ASM and TFD? Wait, maybe whould... [Razz] ]

I was posting honestly, though my tounge was a bit sharper than I planned.

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Grummash

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Icon 1 posted April 25, 2006 14:03      Profile for Grummash     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Ok - If nobody objects, I'll add my $0.02 [Wink]

One of the key points here was identified by, amongst others, nerdwithnofriends. I would paraphrase this idea as:
This has all got a bit shouty. and There's not much listening being done.

I do appreciate that there is not much support here for Rhonwyyn's style of Christianity, and I would be on the list of those who see Rhonnie's faith as being much more fundamental than liberal. Nevertheless, this is what she believes and she is
entitled to her beliefs. Indeed, under the European Convention on Human Rights she is, as are we all, entitled to both freedom of religious belief and freedom of expression of those beliefs.

Now, I do feel that some of Rhonnie's earlier postings in this thread were perhaps a little 'prescriptive' in tone and even maybe a bit 'preachy' - but, and this is an important 'but', they were simply a firm statement of her own beliefs and as such, we are all free to take 'em or leave 'em.

Several GCers have commented that as religion is a matter of belief, we will never change someone's faith through 'evidence'. I agree with this comment, and would suggest that if 'evidence' and 'proof' are irrelevant in this context then we are left only with reason.

Therefore my conclusion is the same as has been drawn several times already - can we just keep things reasonable, please?"

[Wink]

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...and yet, across the gulf of space, minds immeasurably superior to ours regarded this earth with envious eyes...

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Rhonwyyn

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Icon 1 posted April 25, 2006 14:34      Profile for Rhonwyyn   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Stereo:
And Rhonwyyn, nobody called you a fundamentalist, Dman only stated that fundamentalists may dislike some of Garlicguy's comments. Take a deep breath; because many GCers disagree with your faith (me included, I may add) doesn't mean we don't respect you.

Oh, I know, Stereo. I was actually joking about it. I feel like this has been one of the better discussions of religious belief we've had on these boards since I joined. It seems to me everyone's kept their cool and not gone off name-calling or ridiculing anyone. Very adult and very respectable, all of you! [Applause]

As far as the whole "preachy" tone, I never meant to be preachy... just to state what I believe. The "You HAVE been warned" was meant to be tongue-in-cheek, not a Bible-thumping, hell-fire-and-brimstone condemnation. I wasn't sure which emoticon to use to show that tone, so I didn't use any. Maybe one would've been better than none? [ohwell]

I've really appreciated this discussion because it's forced me to clarify what I believe... to compose a statement faith... and for that I thank all of you. You've been marvelous guinea pigs [Big Grin]

(Side note: I know it's rather uncommon to have Christians populate the sciences, but I'd hazard a guess that there are more than we know. For example, the head of the undergraduate Mathematics department at Penn State is a Ph.D. and a strong Christian. Trying to out-logic him is like trying to stop the tide... virtually impossible! Add to that at least four of my friends who are engineering graduate students, another three who work at Penn State's Applied Research Lab, one who's a computer scientist for Lockheed Martin, another who's a biochemistry Ph.D. doing research in New Jersey, and that's quite a large percentage of my friends who are both intelligent/intellectuals and Christians. But then, as a geekophile and a Christian, it's not surprising that I gravitate toward those people, aye? [Wink] )

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Change the way you SEE, not the way you LOOK!

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Xanthine

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Icon 1 posted April 25, 2006 14:45      Profile for Xanthine     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Correction: there are lots of Christians, Jews, Muslims, Hindus, Buddhists, etc. in the sciences. We scientists don't make a lot of noise about that though, mainly because, as far as we're concerned, matters of faith are immaterial. All that matters among us is whether or not your science is good and your ethics sound. That scientists and engineers are/should be atheistic is a popular misconception. Religion and science are not as mutually exclusive as people tend to think. The thing that gets the scientists in an uproar is when people try to use our methods to back up religious beliefs and arguments. You really can't do that and still be doing good science. There is, to date, no empirical proof that God exists. There is also no empirical proof God does not exist. It is all a matter of faith and intuition and gut instincts, which is all well and good but it isn't scientific and that may be where people get this crazy notion that to be a scientist you must be an atheist.

Now, since I've been such a good guinea pig, I would like my spinach, carrots, and apple slices. Now. Before I start squeaking and kicking soiled bedding out of my cage. And maybe some fresh hay on the side. P

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And it's one, two, three / On the wrong side of the lee / What were you meant for? / What were you meant for?
- The Decemberists

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Rhonwyyn

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Icon 1 posted April 25, 2006 14:58      Profile for Rhonwyyn   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Come with me on my commute to work and you may have all the produce you'd like! I pass an Amish farm where they sell organic lettuce, spinach, and carrots. I'm sure as more produce comes in there'll be a wider selection.

In the meantime, just looking at the colts at that farm makes me drool... they're the cutest things! The really young ones with their whiskbroom tails and wobbly legs always make me laugh... and the way they sack out on the ground to sleep... too cute!

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Grummash

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Icon 1 posted April 25, 2006 15:07      Profile for Grummash     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Rhonwyyn - apologies for mis-reading the tone of your posts in this thread. [Frown]

For the sake of clarity, I'll just add that I thought that your posts did a decent job of discussing ideas with people who hold very different opinions and/or beliefs. Some of the other posts failed to show any sense of discussion at all.

I much prefer it when people I do not agree with care enough to participate in an honest debate - under such circumstances we may both learn something. [Smile]

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...and yet, across the gulf of space, minds immeasurably superior to ours regarded this earth with envious eyes...

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Spiderman

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Icon 1 posted April 25, 2006 15:09      Profile for Spiderman     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Without going into the details, I'm a Christian, and I consider myself to be an intellectual.

Will I try to enter a rational debate about my beliefs? no. That is all they are: beliefs. Does it have anything to do with the fact I grew up with parents that hammered it into me? probably.

In all areas of life, I strive to be balanced. Not extreme in one direction or another. I'll respect the opinions of those I disagree with, and will not push my beliefs on others. If someone wants to know just what I believe I'll probably cough up some information.

Addressing nwnf: no, being associated with christianity doesn't have to be an automatic turn-off. There is a group of people here that have even met me in real life, and I'm sure they won't say my "religion" affects me as a geek/programmer/thinker/person in any negative way.

Oh, and of course I'm a part of the "Cool Crowd" [Wink] [Razz]

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Serenak

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Icon 1 posted April 25, 2006 16:10      Profile for Serenak     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Reading back to the start of the thread I see that my posts were fairly similar to Rhonwyyn's, but without any religious comment as I am a sort of atheist/areligious/neo-pagan/born again can't be bothered with it sort of guy...

I stated that I thought it might be worth another try (and implied that I thought that it would be a good thing to do), but only if Mac D wanted to (of course that was before the more than once infidelity revelation) and actually I think my tone could be read as "preachy" though that was not my intent and really never is (unless we are talking about how to make good DTP files - then I might get preachy like some of the coders do on here about clean code...)

We all have to hold some faith (in something, or some one, or a religion or political stance, or just our own ability, or whatever) and I don't think anyone here would deny that each is entitled to that.

Where people get edgy is when faith turns to "blind faith" - the sort that will brook no discussion or challenge or question. To me that is not actually "faith" as most of us percieve it any more but a sort of mania verging on mental illness.

Strange thing is that religious scholars of all persuasions have for centuries agreed on many of the central tenets whilst their lesser compatriots fought to the death over the details...
(c.f. Crusades etc.)

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"So if you want my address - it's No. 1 at the end of the bar, where I sit with the broken angels, clutching at straws and nursing my scars..."

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Mac D
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Icon 1 posted April 25, 2006 19:18      Profile for Mac D     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Drugs for sex (Mandrake is a drug)

Genesis 30:14-17

14 During wheat harvest, Reuben went out into the fields and found some mandrake plants, which he brought to his mother Leah. Rachel said to Leah, "Please give me some of your son's mandrakes."

15 But she said to her, "Wasn't it enough that you took away my husband? Will you take my son's mandrakes too?"
"Very well," Rachel said, "he can sleep with you tonight in return for your son's mandrakes."

16 So when Jacob came in from the fields that evening, Leah went out to meet him. "You must sleep with me," she said. "I have hired you with my son's mandrakes." So he slept with her that night.

17 God listened to Leah, and she became pregnant and bore Jacob a fifth son.

Sex for a goat (not with a goat where did spungo go?)

Genesis 38:13-29

13 When Tamar was told, "Your father-in-law is on his way to Timnah to shear his sheep,"

14 she took off her widow's clothes, covered herself with a veil to disguise herself, and then sat down at the entrance to Enaim, which is on the road to Timnah. For she saw that, though Shelah had now grown up, she had not been given to him as his wife.

15 When Judah saw her, he thought she was a prostitute, for she had covered her face.

16 Not realizing that she was his daughter-in-law, he went over to her by the roadside and said, "Come now, let me sleep with you."
"And what will you give me to sleep with you?" she asked.

17 "I'll send you a young goat from my flock," he said.
"Will you give me something as a pledge until you send it?" she asked.

18 He said, "What pledge should I give you?"
"Your seal and its cord, and the staff in your hand," she answered. So he gave them to her and slept with her, and she became pregnant by him.

19 After she left, she took off her veil and put on her widow's clothes again.

I have more if you really want to read them. There is insest in the book, Murder, Rape, stealing ect. ect. And most of the time without punishment. Again if you would have read what I wrote I spent 8 years having to learn all of this stuff. There is a lot of sick stuff in that thing. So there is some proof of prostitution. Have you read the thing yourself?

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There's nothing wrong with me, This is how I'm supposed to be.

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fs

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Icon 1 posted April 25, 2006 19:45      Profile for fs   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Rhonwyyn:
(You can lead a horse to water, but can't make it drink. [Razz] )

Oh ego, thy name is religious "righteousness" [Roll Eyes]

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Rhonwyyn

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Icon 1 posted April 25, 2006 19:58      Profile for Rhonwyyn   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
MacD, you've shown that prostitution existed in the Bible. However, I see no evidence that God commanded that behavior or approved of it. If you keep reading in both of those stories, you'll see that everyone involved suffered negative consequences.

Why did Jacob have more than one wife in the first place? His uncle cheated him out of Rachel. Why did Tamar pose as a prostitute? Because Judah refused to fulfill the duties required of him--provide a husband for the widowed Tamar so she would regain honor and be taken care of. Judah's son was old enough to be given to Tamar as her husband, but he refused, so she got creative. (Why did he go to a prostitute? Not that this condones it, but his wife had recently died, leaving him without female companionship and all that entails.)

The Bible is one of the most violent and convoluted books you'll ever read, and that's because it's telling the story of a violent and convoluted people. The men of Sodom wanted Lot's male visitors to have sex with them, but instead, Lot offered his daughters. The men refused the women and later the two girls got their father drunk so they could sleep with him and get pregnant. And then there's the gory story of Ehud and Eglon in Judges 3: "As the king rose from his seat, Ehud reached with his left hand, drew the sword from his right thigh and plunged it into the king's belly. Even the handle sank in after the blade, which came out his back. Ehud did not pull the sword out, and the fat closed in over it." Oh, and keep reading... how'd Samson get the two hundred foreskins of the Philistines?! [crazy]

As far as prostitution goes, there're all the rules in Hebrew law against it, e.g., Leviticus 19-21, Exodus 34, Number 15:39, Psalm 106, Proverbs 6, 7, 23, and 29, and the obvious scorn for the practice as demonstrated in Jeremiah 1-5, Ezekiel 16, I Corinthians 6, and Revelation 17 & 19.

However, there's hope. Rahab the prostitute is listed in the genealogy of Jesus because of her faith (Hebrews 11, James 2), and Jesus himself told the intellectuals of His day in Matthew 21: "I tell you the truth, the tax collectors and the prostitutes are entering the kingdom of God ahead of you. For John came to you to show you the way of righteousness, and you did not believe him, but the tax collectors and the prostitutes did. And even after you saw this, you did not repent and believe him."

All that to say that God condemns certain kinds of behavior, but He won't condemn the people who do those kinds of behavior if they turn from their behavior: "When I shut up the heavens so that there is no rain, or command locusts to devour the land or send a plague among my people, if my people, who are called by my name, will humble themselves and pray and seek my face and turn from their wicked ways, then will I hear from heaven and will forgive their sin and will heal their land. Now my eyes will be open and my ears attentive to the prayers offered in this place." (2 Chronicles 7:13-15)

At least, that's my understanding of it all. What's yours?

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Posts: 3849 | From: Lancaster, PA | Registered: Jul 2004  |  IP: Logged
fs

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Icon 1 posted April 25, 2006 20:30      Profile for fs   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by GameMaster:
But is it right?

No,


Why isn't it? Set aside silly bible arguments about what "He" says. Because I can use the bible to prove that you have a responsibility to kill me (me being a witch and all -- "Suffer not a witch to live"), and that you need to sacrifice a bull every Sabat day (Exodus -- wait, Jesus took that back... But, isn't god infalable, then why did he miscommunicate with Moses?).

Where did Jesus take that back?

This is an honest question, I'm curious, since Matthew 5:17-19 and Luke 16:17 give the distinct idea that unless specifically contravened, OT still applies. I can't think of where sacrificing a bull on the Sabat was negated?


And mercilessly cribbed from the 'Net:
Top Ten Signs You're a Fundamentalist Christian

10 - You vigorously deny the existence of thousands of gods claimed by other religions, but feel outraged when someone denies the existence of yours.

9 - You feel insulted and "dehumanized" when scientists say that people evolved from other life forms, but you have no problem with the Biblical claim that we were created from dirt.

8 - You laugh at polytheists, but you have no problem believing in a Triune God.

7 - Your face turns purple when you hear of the "atrocities" attributed to Allah, but you don't even flinch when hearing about how God/Jehovah slaughtered all the babies of Egypt in "Exodus" and ordered the elimination of entire ethnic groups in "Joshua" including women, children, and trees!

6 - You laugh at Hindu beliefs that deify humans, and Greek claims about gods sleeping with women, but you have no problem believing that the Holy Spirit impregnated Mary, who then gave birth to a man-god who got killed, came back to life and then ascended into the sky.

5 - You are willing to spend your life looking for little loopholes in the scientifically established age of Earth (few billion years), but you find nothing wrong with believing dates recorded by Bronze Age tribesmen sitting in their tents and guessing that Earth is a few generations old.

4 - You believe that the entire population of this planet with the exception of those who share your beliefs -- though excluding those in all rival sects - will spend Eternity in an infinite Hell of Suffering. And yet consider your religion the most "tolerant" and "loving."

3 - While modern science, history, geology, biology, and physics have failed to convince you otherwise, some idiot rolling around on the floor speaking in "tongues" may be all the evidence you need to "prove" Christianity.

2 - You define 0.01% as a "high success rate" when it comes to answered prayers. You consider that to be evidence that prayer works. And you think that the remaining 99.99% FAILURE was simply the will of God.

1 - You actually know a lot less than many atheists and agnostics do about the Bible, Christianity, and church history - but still call yourself a Christian.

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Posts: 1973 | From: The Cat Ship | Registered: Mar 2002  |  IP: Logged


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