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Author Topic: 2 short months
Rhonwyyn

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Icon 1 posted April 21, 2006 06:50      Profile for Rhonwyyn   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
I hear what you're saying, Shroom-dear, but I totally agree with Roland. There's a right way and a wrong way to draw attention to the issues that "mainfest themselves in different ways." Sleeping around--and even emotional infidelity, not just sex--is the worst option if you're serious about your marriage and the vows you promised in front of sometimes 100s of witnesses.

Infidelity is really the coward's way out.

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Change the way you SEE, not the way you LOOK!

Posts: 3849 | From: Lancaster, PA | Registered: Jul 2004  |  IP: Logged
YaYawoman

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Icon 1 posted April 21, 2006 07:15      Profile for YaYawoman     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Hi again.

Well rhonnie and roland I am 99% sure shroom didnt mean that cheating was ok. Strike that, I am 100% sure.

I think what he meant was sometimes cheating is not about getting the bell rung, scratching an itch or dippin' some strange. The act of cheating can have some very convoluted causes. Hahahaha, to mangle Freud, Madam sometimes sex is just not about sex at all.

Cheating is always wrong. If someone is unhappy they should have the strength to try and fix it and if they feel it is unfixable they should have the courtesy, respect and balls to look another person in the eye and end it before starting any sort of new relationship.

Oh, and flashfire thank you for spelling that out for me. The first time i read through your post and saw the comment about DNF and male thought it never occured to me you were comparing DNF and Rhonnie's posts. Confusion cleared up.

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drunkennewfiemidget
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Icon 1 posted April 21, 2006 07:51      Profile for drunkennewfiemidget     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by YaYawoman:
Cheating is always wrong. If someone is unhappy they should have the strength to try and fix it and if they feel it is unfixable they should have the courtesy, respect and balls to look another person in the eye and end it before starting any sort of new relationship.

Bingo.
Posts: 4897 | From: Cambridge, ON, Canada | Registered: Jun 2004  |  IP: Logged
CommanderShroom
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Icon 8 posted April 21, 2006 09:20      Profile for CommanderShroom     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Ok, first off I am now totally positive that nowhere in my posts did I ever say anything about infidelity being right. The best option, or for fucks sake, good.

What I said

Is that sometimes things such as infidelity and dishonesty are manifestations of deeper issues.

Shit.

I could have sworn I posted everything in English. But if there is an issue figuring out what I mean, let me know. And then I will make a power point presentation with cute little fucking pictures, diagrams and bar graphs.

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Does he know our big secret?
Has one of us confessed?
'Bout the wires circuits and motors
Buried in our chest

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drunkennewfiemidget
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Icon 1 posted April 21, 2006 10:23      Profile for drunkennewfiemidget     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by CommanderShroom:

I could have sworn I posted everything in English. But if there is an issue figuring out what I mean, let me know. And then I will make a power point presentation with cute little fucking pictures, diagrams and bar graphs.

That would be appreciated. And just so you're aware, I'm particularly partial to the 'slide' effect.
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Serenak

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Icon 1 posted April 21, 2006 12:34      Profile for Serenak     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
especially if paired with the squealing tyres and breaking glass sound effect!!!!

[Smile]

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"So if you want my address - it's No. 1 at the end of the bar, where I sit with the broken angels, clutching at straws and nursing my scars..."

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Grummash

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Icon 1 posted April 21, 2006 13:00      Profile for Grummash     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
My $0.02 on the infidelity debate....

I am with those who subscribe to the idea that infidelity can be a manifestation of deep-rooted problems within a relationship and that, at the same time, this does not, of itself, make it acceptable or justifiable. But it does quite often explain why it happened.

And on a lighter note.... I would olike to thank YaYaWoman for introducing me to the delightful phrase ...dippin' some strange. [Big Grin]

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...and yet, across the gulf of space, minds immeasurably superior to ours regarded this earth with envious eyes...

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YaYawoman

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Icon 1 posted April 21, 2006 14:48      Profile for YaYawoman     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
You are welcome grummash. It does have a spiffy sort of ring to it, doesnt it? [Smile]
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Maggs
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Icon 1 posted April 23, 2006 15:38      Profile for Maggs     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by drunkennewfiemidget:
That would be appreciated. And just so you're aware, I'm particularly partial to the 'slide' effect.

You mean slide the PC off the table [Wink] Powerpoint is quite boring.
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csk

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Icon 1 posted April 23, 2006 19:32      Profile for csk     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Grummash:
I am with those who subscribe to the idea that infidelity can be a manifestation of deep-rooted problems within a relationship and that, at the same time, this does not, of itself, make it acceptable or justifiable. But it does quite often explain why it happened.

Bingo. As someone who has been the cheater, I don't make any excuses for it, but the unmet needs I had in the relationship made the cheating that much more tempting...

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6 weeks to go!

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fs

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Icon 1 posted April 24, 2006 12:43      Profile for fs   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
I found this, while looking for something else:

Beyond Betrayal: Life After Infidelity
quote:
Hour after hour, day after day in my office I see men and women who have been screwing around. They lead secret lives, as they hide themselves from their marriages. They go through wrenching divorces, inflicting pain on their children and their children's children. Or they make desperate, tearful, sweaty efforts at holding on to the shreds of a life they've betrayed. They tell me they have gone through all of this for a quick thrill or a furtive moment of romance. Sometimes they tell me they don't remember making the decision that tore apart their life: "It just happened." Sometimes they don't even know they are being unfaithful. (I tell them: "If you don't know whether what you are doing is an infidelity or not, ask your spouse.") From the outside looking in, it is insane. How could anyone risk everything in life on the turn of a screw?


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I'm in ur database, makin' moar recordz.

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Callipygous
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Icon 1 posted April 24, 2006 14:15      Profile for Callipygous     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
As I get older, the less willing I become to comment on, or offer advice about any relationship, especially one that I know nothing about. The comments here though tell us more about the speaker than MacD and his ex. Rhonnie is a thoroughly loved up, committed Christian looking forward to her wedding, who cannot at the moment conceive the knots and complications that happen in the even the best of relationships. Others believe equally strongly that it is impossible and demeaning to attempt to restart a relationship where your ex has betrayed you. I think none of these things are quite so cut and dried, and I feel it would be presumptuous of me to offer advice or analyse the situation without a lengthy conversation with both parties involved, which of course is not going to happen, so all I can do is wish MacD the courage to ride through his situation and hope that in so far as he does have any contact with his his ex that he manages to keep things friendly. Everything else is up to them.

As to why people are unfaithful, that again is unanswerable, but perhaps there is a clue in the Bruce Springsteen song, "Everybody's got a hungry heart". We are driven by these things, however much we like to pretend we are in charge, so whether or not the relationship can be revived, I would tend to favour understanding and forgiveness rather than a judgemental attitude. But then hey what else would you expect from a card carrying, America hating, candy ass, bleeding heart, faggot liberal! [Wink]

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"Knowledge is Power. France is Bacon" - Milton

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Grummash

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Icon 1 posted April 24, 2006 14:22      Profile for Grummash     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Callipygous:
But then hey what else would you expect from a card carrying, America hating, candy ass, bleeding heart, faggot liberal!

...you missed out 'Communist'! [Big Grin]

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...and yet, across the gulf of space, minds immeasurably superior to ours regarded this earth with envious eyes...

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The Famous Druid

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Icon 1 posted April 24, 2006 14:31      Profile for The Famous Druid     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Grummash:
quote:
Originally posted by Callipygous:
But then hey what else would you expect from a card carrying, America hating, candy ass, bleeding heart, faggot liberal!

...you missed out 'Communist'! [Big Grin]
... and Godless ...

--------------------
If you watch 'The History Of NASA' backwards, it's about a space agency that has no manned spaceflight capability, then does low-orbit flights, then lands on the Moon.

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Callipygous
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Icon 1 posted April 24, 2006 14:37      Profile for Callipygous     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Badges of pride, all of them. [Smile]

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"Knowledge is Power. France is Bacon" - Milton

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Grummash

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Icon 1 posted April 24, 2006 14:50      Profile for Grummash     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Callipygous:
Badges of pride, all of them.

Glad to hear it. [Applause]

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...and yet, across the gulf of space, minds immeasurably superior to ours regarded this earth with envious eyes...

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Rhonwyyn

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Icon 1 posted April 24, 2006 15:08      Profile for Rhonwyyn   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Rhonnie is a thoroughly loved up, committed Christian looking forward to her wedding, who cannot at the moment conceive the knots and complications that happen in the even the best of relationships.

That's bullshit, Calli, and you know it. Do you know how many thousands of dollars I've spent in counseling trying to come to terms with my father's multiple infidelities? Do you know how much it shakes me to the core that he just left his SECOND wife a month ago and is sleeping around AGAIN (and apparently has been for the past year or so)?! After adopting TWO children? Did he NOT learn his lesson the first time around? He thought by cheating on my mother--his first wife--and then abandoning her and their four children he'd find fulfillment and happiness. Stupid git. That rarely happens. Once a cheater; always a cheater. Jonathan tells me he's committed to our relationship and more importantly, to me, but I don't believe him 100% because I believed my father when he said he'd love and honor and cherish my mother forever. If dad could walk out on us, Jonathan could walk out on me. Except for one thing: Jonathan has a stronger character than my father ever had. Still, I'll never be completely comfortable/at ease in our marriage, and that's hard for both of us to deal with.

When I posted my original statement about MacD using his time away and letters in the interim to draw his wife close to him, I was speaking to separations cause by anything other than infidelity. I'm sorry I wasn't clearer about it. I do think marriages can be restored after one or both parties has been unfaithful, but it takes a complete change of heart, a lot of pain, and hard work for it to happen. As a result, it very rarely happens.

However--and this is where you are correct, Calli--God designed marriage and loves marriage, as well as the people in marriages. He is the healer of broken hearts and the restorer of broken marriages. There's nothing impossible for Him. Sure, I struggle with knowing He can do anything, but doesn't always choose to do it, but He's sovereign God; He knows so much better than I do. So I'm entering this marriage with Jonathan with my eyes fully open. I know what can go wrong because I've lived through it. I know some of the mistakes to avoid so we don't establish patterns/habits that make a marriage ripe for infidelity. We're going through counseling as a couple to ensure we've talked about significant issues and developed excellent communication skills. And most importantly, we're seeking God's protection and guidance in our relationship. Without Him, whatever we do will fail. That may sound all "pie in the sky" and "loved up" as you put it, but it's a humble acknowledgement of our human fallibility and dependence on someone other than ourselves to achieve any kind of marital "success."

Unless you've walked every painful step in my shoes, Calli, don't EVER again tell me I don't know how marriages can fail.

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Change the way you SEE, not the way you LOOK!

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angryjungman

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Icon 1 posted April 24, 2006 18:29      Profile for angryjungman   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
All your butts are grab by me!!!11!!oneone!!11!eleventyone

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Meh.

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drunkennewfiemidget
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Icon 1 posted April 24, 2006 18:44      Profile for drunkennewfiemidget     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
I just find it humourous that christians/catholics/whatever can change their rules when it suits them, or when society tells them they're wrong, but they're all written in stone up until that point.

The bible suggests murdering people who use the lords name in vain, sacrificing humans & animals, and having slaves.

Those aren't cool anymore, so they've been stricken from the record, but all of those other things still remaining, like, not being allowed to be gay, no sex before marriage, etc, all get to be left alone as-is (and don't even get me started as to the number of translations and modifications the bible has inevitably gone under due to misunderstandings, misinterpretations, etc over the years).

Using the bible as a general guideline for your life is all fine and well.

Trying to live by it word by word and judging and/or discriminating against those who don't follow it exactly (by your interpretation, no less), is bullshit nonsense.

That being said, I think Rhon is in a hurry to get married because she wants to start doing all the other things that come along with marriage that other people begin doing before marriage, and is afraid her biological clock is running out (as she's not so succinctly alluded to previously), and as such, isn't willing to take the time required to properly get to know someone before getting engaged to them, which is why she's rushing into it.

Here's hoping she's made the right decision.

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Rhonwyyn

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Icon 1 posted April 24, 2006 18:56      Profile for Rhonwyyn   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
You put it so well this afternoon, DNM, that I'm surprised you ridicule me for similar reasons:

quote:
[15:42] drunkennewfiemidget Which was basically one of
my main reasons for marrying her -- every woman I'd
been with before, I'd happily have seen myself railing
other women (and in some cases, did.)
[15:43] Tom-geek heh..
[15:43] drunkennewfiemidget And as perverted and
sexist as it sounds, it's part of a much bigger
picture.
[15:43] Tom-geek you've lost me
[15:43] drunkennewfiemidget She makes me feel and
think and see her in a whole different light that I
can't imagine myself being with any other woman, hence
the marriage.
[15:44] Tom-geek you mean, you measure other women by
her?
[15:44] drunkennewfiemidget .. no.
[15:44] drunkennewfiemidget There'd be no contest.
[15:44] drunkennewfiemidget What I'm saying is when I
was dating and/or fucking the other women in my past,
I'd see a hot lady walking down the street and be
like, "Yea, I'd hit that." and could actually
visualise in my head myself fucking that woman.
[15:45] Tom-geek who doesn't?
[15:45] drunkennewfiemidget And in some cases, I
pursued, and *did* fuck those other women.
[15:45] drunkennewfiemidget With Amanda, I look at a
hot lady going down the street and go, "she's hot."
and Amanda goes, "Yea, she is." and that's it. I
don't even go there.. I don't need to.

I've had enough experience with men to know when I've found a good one. Granted, I don't allow myself to think about sleeping with a variety of men, but for me, relationships are so much more than sex, and rightly so. Jonathan and I complement each other superbly. Why drag my feet about it more than we are already*? Getting married more than a year after we've first met isn't rushing into anything.

*Quite a few of our friends and family members have suggested we get married next month so my housing search would be solved. Not surprisingly, we've vetoed that suggestion. As much as we'd like to live together, we're enjoying this time of easing into an increasingly close relationship. (I'd say "intimate," but everyone's mind would immediately jump to sex, and that's one place we're not going.)

--------------------
Change the way you SEE, not the way you LOOK!

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drunkennewfiemidget
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Icon 1 posted April 24, 2006 19:10      Profile for drunkennewfiemidget     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
As I said, I sincerely hope you're right, I really do.

But if you're not, don't get overly upset if a few years down the road, you tell us, and you get some "I told you so"s.

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Rednivek

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Icon 1 posted April 24, 2006 19:12      Profile for Rednivek     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
2 questions:

1) Is the father going to hell?
2) Is Jonathan allowed to make mistakes? If not, will he also go to hell?

Okay, thats 3 questions.

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Rednivek - Detroit, Michigan, USA

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Rhonwyyn

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Icon 1 posted April 24, 2006 19:27      Profile for Rhonwyyn   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Rednivek:
2 questions:

1) Is the father going to hell?.

From conversations we've had with him, it's looking more and more like he will. He doesn't see anything wrong with what he's done, so he's obviously unrepentant. Sexual immorality is one of the things God hates (ref. I Thess. 4:3-8, for example). If he confessed his sin and repented, God would forgive him. Until he does, though, that sin is going to stand between him and fellowship with God. However, I don't know the true state of his heart--only God knows--so don't ask me to judge him; I only know his actions, but they look more self-involved than God-involved at t his point.

quote:
2) Is Jonathan allowed to make mistakes?

Yes, of course. And I hope I am, too, 'cause it's a given that everyone makes mistakes. We need to show grace and mercy to everyone, just like God shows grace and mercy to us. However, there's such a thing as tough love. If I cheat on Jonathan, I would hope he would have the grace to continue loving me and to work out our issues. However, he's not going to condone my behavior because it benefits no one and is just downright wrong.

quote:
If not, will he also go to hell?

Let me put it in a nutshell: Everyone sins and that separates us from God, who is perfect. God punishes sinners by sending them to hell. Since God created us to be His friends, He also provided us a way to escape the punishment of sin--His son, Jesus, the only perfect person, who accepted the punishment for our sins. The illogic of that action destroyed the power of sin. When we accept Jesus' payment for our sins, we can be God's friends and escape hell. But to accept Jesus' payment, we have to confess our sins and acknowledge they exist. God wants us to be perfect just like He is perfect so we can be the best of friends. So to keep sinning without repentance is exceedingly self-defeatist.

Hmm... that might be oversimplistic, but that's basically the Gospel in a nutshell.

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Change the way you SEE, not the way you LOOK!

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drunkennewfiemidget
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Icon 2 posted April 24, 2006 19:50      Profile for drunkennewfiemidget     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
So what you're saying is that if I do what I believe is right and just in the world, and genuinely do and believe in what I think is right, your god who is perfect and forgiving is going to punish me to the depths of hell for all eternity for doing what I thought was right?

Right, thought so.

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Mac D
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Icon 1 posted April 24, 2006 19:59      Profile for Mac D     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
I see the bible as a work of ficion for the most part. It does have some accurate historical events in it. But on that note people always write about what is happening, Just because they put some fables into it doesn't make it truth. It kind of reminds of the Steven King, he puts in acctual places and events into his stories but is anyone going to take most of what he writes about as fact?

And as far as the "No sex before marriage" thing. Do you buy a car witout taking it for a test drive?

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There's nothing wrong with me, This is how I'm supposed to be.

Posts: 1449 | From: Where I am is very relative to my location at that time. | Registered: Sep 2004  |  IP: Logged


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