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Author Topic: Keep the US Government out of our Phones!
Shooshie
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Icon 1 posted February 22, 2016 15:37      Profile for Shooshie   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Of course the politicians are going to have a field day with this, posturing themselves as patriots chastising that treasonous company, Apple, for creating a phone with security they can't break. Trump is already calling for a boycott of Apple. Hahahahaha... I'd like to see how THAT goes.

"Hmmm... lessee... The Donald is my man, but he wants me to toss my iPhone. But I LOVE my iPhone. What'll it be? The Donald or my iPhone? Aaa... no contest. I'm voting for Hillary!"

Seriously. Get the government out of our lives. Out of our phones. Out of our pockets. Republicans may sound like they want to do that, but they are precisely the people who DO do that. Wolves in sheep clothing. Get them out of government.

Shooshie

Posts: 116 | From: Texas to Nevada... depending. | Registered: May 2003  |  IP: Logged
TheMoMan
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Icon 1 posted February 22, 2016 19:41      Profile for TheMoMan         Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Shooshie me thinks you are preaching to the choir.

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Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.


Benjamin Franklin,

Posts: 5835 | From: Just South of the Huron National Forest, in the water shed of the Rifle River | Registered: Sep 2002  |  IP: Logged
dragonman97

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Icon 1 posted February 22, 2016 20:21      Profile for dragonman97   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Saturday night I saw the news and muttered 'oh sh*t' for a good 2 minutes.

As for the phone thing - I understand the desire to gain access to the phone's contents (and it looks like the decedent's employer did a really dumb thing), but the precedent is impossibly bad. This is not about one phone - it would be a cakewalk to 'rinse & repeat' on other phones, and there's no way Apple could say no to other governments with the right paperwork if they do it just this 'one time.'

And is it a bit about branding? Oh yeah. I imagine some die-hard Blackberry users will be all too willing to switch over. I read a technical doc about the security Apple has built in over the last few years - I'm quite impressed. Back when I first read it, I thought "they've over-engineered this to guarantee they can't be impeached as less-secure-than-Blackberry." Perhaps it borders on overkill, but 'tis a job well done. (All files are encrypted by default - the access to the encryption key is controlled by your passcode. Purge the key and everything is unreadable. Sort of complex...sort of simple...quite clever.)

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There are three things you can be sure of in life: Death, taxes, and reading about fake illnesses online...

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The Famous Druid

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Icon 1 posted February 22, 2016 22:23      Profile for The Famous Druid     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by dragonman97:
Saturday night I saw the news and muttered 'oh sh*t' for a good 2 minutes.

Canada to the rescue!
(but you may have to climb a wall to get there)

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If you watch 'The History Of NASA' backwards, it's about a space agency that has no manned spaceflight capability, then does low-orbit flights, then lands on the Moon.

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TheMoMan
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Icon 1 posted February 23, 2016 11:47      Profile for TheMoMan         Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Deep PooP

Maybe what is needed is a short course in radio law. “Radio you say this is about phones” or is it?

Land lines does anyone still have them? On a land line the Constitution protects you against wire tapping and surveillance, unless a Court Order has been issued. That is because the info is contained in the land line.

Now we get to wireless, does anyone remember the first Cordless Phones, they untied you from the connection you could walk about, however the info was being broadcast for all to hear, Your neighbors could listen in with a radio device

Now the laws on Cellular phones, the government can collect your meta data, whom you called how long the call lasted. They also have a device called sting ray, they set this up near a known suspect, and it records every call made near its location.

Now onto the shooter’s phone, The Feds blew it by loading in an update before up loading to the cloud service, So they screwed up now they want Apple to fix the problem they caused?

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Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.


Benjamin Franklin,

Posts: 5835 | From: Just South of the Huron National Forest, in the water shed of the Rifle River | Registered: Sep 2002  |  IP: Logged
CommanderShroom
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Icon 1 posted February 24, 2016 09:24      Profile for CommanderShroom     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
And add that little cherry to the top of the turd sundae, there are another dozen related cases out there asking for access to phone data.

I understand the fears of terrorism and crime. But I am not wiling to sacrifice my personal information for it. And that isn't because I have anything to hide. I just look at it the same way as I look at it like having my front door unlocked. It doesn't mean you get to walk in unannounced and rifle through my drawers.

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Does he know our big secret?
Has one of us confessed?
'Bout the wires circuits and motors
Buried in our chest

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The Famous Druid

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Icon 1 posted February 24, 2016 20:31      Profile for The Famous Druid     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Remember the Patriot Act?
Less than 1% of Patriot Act cases have been about terrorism, most have been about drugs

1: tell the people to surrender their liberties in the fight against terrorism,
2: tell the judge that little baggie of coke fits the legal definition of a 'Chemical Weapon'.
3: ???
4: Profit!!!!

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If you watch 'The History Of NASA' backwards, it's about a space agency that has no manned spaceflight capability, then does low-orbit flights, then lands on the Moon.

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CommanderShroom
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Icon 1 posted February 25, 2016 09:04      Profile for CommanderShroom     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
I'm proud to be an American where at least I know...

I'm...

Fsck!

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Does he know our big secret?
Has one of us confessed?
'Bout the wires circuits and motors
Buried in our chest

Posts: 2463 | From: Utarrrrggggghhh!!!!!!!! | Registered: Mar 2003  |  IP: Logged
The Famous Druid

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Icon 1 posted February 25, 2016 16:12      Profile for The Famous Druid     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by CommanderShroom:
I'm proud to be an American where at least I know...

I'm...

Fsck!

First time I heard that song was at the sound and light show at Stone Mountain.
The place is a shrine to the Confederacy.
Confederate heroes carved into the mountain.
Laser-projected Robert E Lee bravely riding his horse into battle.
All-white audience sitting on the lawn of the recreated slave plantation.

Singing about how proud they are of American Freedom.

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If you watch 'The History Of NASA' backwards, it's about a space agency that has no manned spaceflight capability, then does low-orbit flights, then lands on the Moon.

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TheMoMan
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Icon 1 posted February 25, 2016 19:41      Profile for TheMoMan         Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Kind of incongruous isn't it. Also the USMC will not accept an enlistee with a Stars and Bars Tattoo, something about attempting to over throw the union.


Now back to the issue about phones, dumb or smart? How much convenience do you want? My phone will place calls and text, no images or other smart phone features. NO bank numbers NO account numbers, just a contact list, nothing to hack. Yes my tinfoil hat fits nicely.

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Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.


Benjamin Franklin,

Posts: 5835 | From: Just South of the Huron National Forest, in the water shed of the Rifle River | Registered: Sep 2002  |  IP: Logged
Shooshie
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Icon 1 posted February 27, 2016 00:39      Profile for Shooshie   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
I say it has nothing to do with the medium. The US constitution went to great lengths to tell the government to keep its hands in its own pockets and stay out of ours. Out of our LIVES, for that matter. Income tax wasn't even part of the Constitution.

It doesn't matter if it's a phone, a camera, a pencil and paper, or whatever, the government doesn't have the right to invade our privacy, and we need for it to act like the benevolent attendant it was intended to be and to stay away from us. Unlocking an iPhone was never a part of their investigations in the past, and yet they managed to solve crimes. People had conversations on regular telephones, and unless the government managed to get a court order in advance, they couldn't even listen to those calls. Now, they're saying they can go back in the past and rewrite the code.

FBI: do your investigations the best you can without unleashing the Jinni from the bottle. Once you let that little devil out of that bottle, you'll NEVER get him back in there. You only get one chance to get this right. Back off of Apple. Leave our phones alone, our houses, our lives... get back where you belong.

That one iPhone is just the beginning, and every single person who knows about this case KNOWS that. Those who want it anyway are bordering on treason. That's right. When you betray the trust that has been placed upon the government through the Constitution, which does not have to mention phones or iPhones specifically to protect our privacy through those media, you are undermining the foundations of the USA, and in my view, that's treason.

Those who say Apple is committing treason are simply loony and dangerous. Buy those people a cup of Shut the Fuck Up, and let grownups debate this. We are on the brink of a sea-change in governmental respect for our rights. If it goes the way of the FBI, we've entered Soviet territory. If we step back and stop the FBI, we're safely back in the USA.

C'mon folks! You know which way this has to go!

Shooshie

Posts: 116 | From: Texas to Nevada... depending. | Registered: May 2003  |  IP: Logged
TheMoMan
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Icon 1 posted February 27, 2016 10:22      Profile for TheMoMan         Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
This is going too far, The FBI wants even more than the meta data about the call. If they had not done the upgrade they would not be in this wizzing match. My wife and myself have dumb phones for a reason, go ahead bug the damn thing, did you find what you wanted? Out here in the boonies dumb phones work better than feature rich phones.

Some where there is a recording of the call all carriers keep more than meta data to prove that the charge to your bill is valid, go find that record.

That stupid saying "why would you worry if you didn't do anything?" is horse poop.


Engadget.com

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Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.


Benjamin Franklin,

Posts: 5835 | From: Just South of the Huron National Forest, in the water shed of the Rifle River | Registered: Sep 2002  |  IP: Logged
TheMoMan
BlabberMouth, a Blabber Odyssey
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Icon 1 posted March 02, 2016 06:08      Profile for TheMoMan         Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Just a couple of links that maybe Germaine

.

Fox News


NYdailynews

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Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.


Benjamin Franklin,

Posts: 5835 | From: Just South of the Huron National Forest, in the water shed of the Rifle River | Registered: Sep 2002  |  IP: Logged
TheMoMan
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Icon 1 posted March 21, 2016 09:51      Profile for TheMoMan         Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Lets see if I have this correct, the FBI wants to hack an i-Phone and then warns about hacking the systems in drive by wire cars.

http://www.hngn.com

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Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.


Benjamin Franklin,

Posts: 5835 | From: Just South of the Huron National Forest, in the water shed of the Rifle River | Registered: Sep 2002  |  IP: Logged
quantumfluff
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Icon 1 posted March 21, 2016 23:24      Profile for quantumfluff     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
The key point is to think about the slippery slope. Let's say the FBI wins this, and it results in the creation of a tool to unlock any iPhone - but US law says it can only be used for terrorist threats - so it can't be used to harm law-abiding citizens.

Now what happens when an oppressive government says to Apple - this journalist is a domestic terrorist bent on overthrowing our government. Hand over the tools or you can not do business in our country.

And that is where it all falls to pieces. If one group can break the security, then ALL groups can break the security. Even those groups you don't like.

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