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Author Topic: Multi-factor Authentication
DerekCurrie
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Icon 6 posted October 28, 2013 11:59      Profile for DerekCurrie   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Today's 'Public Service Announcement From Your Finger' was of course offensive and ignorant to anyone interested in using multi-factor authentication. But lots of people are insistently offensive and ignorant on the Internet.

For those who are interested in being something other than offensive and ignorant, here's a great place to start learning about multi-factor authentication and why it's important:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Multi-factor_authentication

Let the 'kill-the-messenger' flames begin! For everyone else, you're welcome. I aim to educate. [Cool]

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Fortune Magazine 11-29-05: What's your computer setup today?
Frederick Brooks (Author of 'The Mythical Man Month'): I happily use a Macintosh. It's not been equalled for ease of use, and I want my computer to be a tool, not a challenge.

Posts: 12 | From: Syracuse, NY | Registered: Dec 2009  |  IP: Logged
TheMoMan
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Icon 1 posted October 28, 2013 13:46      Profile for TheMoMan         Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Mr. Currie

I shan't be flaming you but really asking why bother. While in the US Navy I was assigned to a "Training Squadron" we kept a bunch of old trainer aircraft out side the hanger. At night the games began, The lights inside the hanger were shut off and then the hanger doors opened and out came our real airplanes, Modified to snoop on other radar systems. We recorded the other signals, brought back those recordings and evaluated the usefulness. This was back in the mid sixties, So with a packet sniffer and careful watching some one could get enough data about you to know how the system works. Then crack the code. We also played games with the opposition, we would send an entirely bogus signal to give them something to do, trying to crack that one, sometimes we would see them test that one on us.

I know of a co-worked that had his on line 401K account hacked, and was watching some one try to empty the funds, he contacted the vendor live help desk and had it stopped, also he was not old enough to start with drawing funds.

Some may say I wear tinfoil undies and a tinfoil hat "I DO NOT DO ON LINE BANKING OR STOCK TRADING." When the market crashed I lost enough, I do not need to lose more. So I call the institution and have the live operator help me, and get a conformation number.

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Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.


Benjamin Franklin,

Posts: 5836 | From: Just South of the Huron National Forest, in the water shed of the Rifle River | Registered: Sep 2002  |  IP: Logged
GrumpySteen

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Icon 1 posted October 28, 2013 15:22      Profile for GrumpySteen     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
DerekCurrie wrote:
lots of people are insistently offensive and ignorant on the Internet

This is true. Let's use you as an example.

Today's 'Public Service Announcement From Your Finger' was of course offensive and ignorant to anyone interested in using multi-factor authentication.

Multi-factor authentication requires two or more of the three types of authentication (this is in the Wikipedia article you linked, so we'll pretend you read it). A single authentication factor is not sufficient.

Apple's fingerprint reader allows you to unlock the phone by scanning your fingerprint without entering the four digit code. You can also unlock the phone with the four digit code without scanning your fingerprint. A single authentication factor is sufficient, therefore it is not multi-factor authentication.

Today's JoT demonstrates that Snaggy and Nitrozac understand how the feature works on the iPhone. Your post demonstrates that you don't.

So, yes... lots of people are offensive and ignorant on the Internet. Today, you're one of those people.

For everyone else, you're welcome. I aim to educate.

The only thing we've learned is to not listen to you and that's not something you should be thanked for.

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Worst. Celibate. Ever.

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dragonman97

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Icon 1 posted October 28, 2013 22:30      Profile for dragonman97   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
I pay a fair bit of attention to news pertaining to security and technology and this is the first time I've heard of 'multi-factor authentication.' I've certainly heard of 'two-factor authentication,' but multi- is just splendorific Wikipedia garbage. (Why must they always pick uncommon terms for normal stuff people are interested in?)

What has come up a few times in coherent discussions of iPhone security is that fingerprint + PIN would actually be rather strong security and some bemoan the lack of such an option.

That said, I'm not a fan of biometrics, but I do agree with N+S' notion of 'chill out, it's good enough for everyday security.' It's certainly far superior to having no PIN, and I can believe the idea that half of iPhone users haven't set one. If you link your e-mail to your smartphone, you /must/ set a PIN, as your e-mail account could be very badly misused to break into all your other accounts (via password reset).

If you want to reduce the chance of a 'James Bond' attack on your iPhone 5S, use your pinky to authenticate - it's less likely to be leave a usable print on wine glasses.

Alternatively, you might want to set a password instead of a PIN - and I've seen suggestions to use int'l symbols (long touch the vowels, etc.) to add complexity while preserving brevity.

Do something, not nothing...and don't flame the kind folks who run this place. [Smile]

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There are three things you can be sure of in life: Death, taxes, and reading about fake illnesses online...

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TheMoMan
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Icon 1 posted October 29, 2013 09:54      Profile for TheMoMan         Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Lets say that we are not looking at computers but a structure. Inside the building is a secure room. protected with a five lock door, So you have to have five keys to open the door, however you can only possess two keys, min number of people to open the door. However management decided to save money by not including a restroom in the secure area. So at some time the door will be wedged to prevent it from latching while you leave to use the facilities. Real Secure? What about the space cleaners,

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Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.


Benjamin Franklin,

Posts: 5836 | From: Just South of the Huron National Forest, in the water shed of the Rifle River | Registered: Sep 2002  |  IP: Logged
DerekCurrie
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Icon 1 posted October 30, 2013 01:00      Profile for DerekCurrie   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
I was hoping maybe for an imaginative response from someone who bothered to learn about Multi-factor Authentication and now understood it. Darn, just more of the same insistent ignorance! Who'd have thought?

GrumpySteen: I know you live the life you deserve. That makes me sad. You can do better. Your reply was dime-a-dozen generic.

dragonman97: Who did I flame? I know how you flamed. I talked about a cartoon. Was the cartoon intentionally offensive and ignorant in order to draw out the foolish who DO deserve criticism. Maybe so! If so, mission accomplished. This thread is incredible!

As ignorance about actual security persists, insistently, in our society. Think upon your contributions to the purveyance of that ignorance and learn. Folks willing to help you learn will still be around. But of course they'll be scarred from all the ignorant people who pointlessly flamed them for being helpful. So you may have to ask twice for assistance. [Cool]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Multi-factor_authentication

Kill-The-Messenger has now concluded. Congratulations.

--------------------
Fortune Magazine 11-29-05: What's your computer setup today?
Frederick Brooks (Author of 'The Mythical Man Month'): I happily use a Macintosh. It's not been equalled for ease of use, and I want my computer to be a tool, not a challenge.

Posts: 12 | From: Syracuse, NY | Registered: Dec 2009  |  IP: Logged
dragonman97

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Icon 1 posted October 30, 2013 03:07      Profile for dragonman97   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Wikipedia is the lowest common denominator written by people who think they know more than they do.

If you're serious, cite Schneier or perhaps Krebs. (Or someone who's a contemporary of theirs.)

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There are three things you can be sure of in life: Death, taxes, and reading about fake illnesses online...

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TheMoMan
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Icon 1 posted October 30, 2013 07:44      Profile for TheMoMan         Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Mr. Currie

There are people that often post in these forums that work in the field of IT Security. You may do better asking questions than coming here and posing as an expert.

You think that we are trying to shoot the messenger, far from it. At this point I am about to School You.

Wikipedia

Please read that whole page. You or I can or could EDIT ANY PAGE.

Do you remember writing research papers? Verify from multiple sources, show your Bibliography. Wikipedia is not a published Science paper.

You come here from your blog, and tell us something, that you back up with a reference to Wikipedia. Then it appears you want to pick a fight over us not exclaiming, "Why that's better than sliced bread." When in fact it may have been discussed, before the most recent market crash. You are not Dr. Sheldon Cooper!

Also some of the posters to this forum may have signed nondisclosure agreements, with their employers. Including where they work or whom they worked for. My own agreement expires at the end of 2015.

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Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.


Benjamin Franklin,

Posts: 5836 | From: Just South of the Huron National Forest, in the water shed of the Rifle River | Registered: Sep 2002  |  IP: Logged
quantumfluff
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Icon 1 posted October 31, 2013 01:04      Profile for quantumfluff     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
I normally don't feed the trolls, but sometimes they simply require a lesson.

Multi-factor Authentication is a great thing. Biometric keys are not. A key element of any security protocol is that you must be able to revoke compromised access tokens. It's simply not feasible for people to revoke their fingerprints if they become compromised.

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The Famous Druid

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Icon 1 posted October 31, 2013 07:05      Profile for The Famous Druid     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Whenever people suggest fingerprints for security, I think about xkcd and what the "$5 solution" might be...

 -

Not worth the risk.

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If you watch 'The History Of NASA' backwards, it's about a space agency that has no manned spaceflight capability, then does low-orbit flights, then lands on the Moon.

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GrumpySteen

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Icon 1 posted November 01, 2013 21:33      Profile for GrumpySteen     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
The $5 solution is to get your finger print on something and use it to make a fake fingerprint. A German group has already done it to prove it can be done. Much easier than beating it out of you or cutting your finger off.

The whole point of the fingerprint scanner is not to provide tighter security than the four digit pass code. It's to provide a simple, low-level security that is as transparent as possible to the user. It's meant to appeal to the people who don't want to have to enter a pass code every time they unlock their phone, yet still want some sort of lock.

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TheMoMan
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Icon 1 posted November 03, 2013 20:27      Profile for TheMoMan         Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
We have been tooled Someone that thinks like Dr. Sheldon Cooper. Came to our forums started or tried to start a flame war.

Go to his web page he has stories about doing what he did there.

--------------------
Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.


Benjamin Franklin,

Posts: 5836 | From: Just South of the Huron National Forest, in the water shed of the Rifle River | Registered: Sep 2002  |  IP: Logged
TheMoMan
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Icon 1 posted November 09, 2013 13:33      Profile for TheMoMan         Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
News Story on Wired

Wired story on Multi-factor Authentication.

It seems we need more than two sources.

--------------------
Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.


Benjamin Franklin,

Posts: 5836 | From: Just South of the Huron National Forest, in the water shed of the Rifle River | Registered: Sep 2002  |  IP: Logged


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