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Author Topic: Waiting for Leopard, wishing and hoping, and hoping and praying...
Snaggy

Sir Snaggalot!
Member # 123

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Icon 5 posted September 24, 2007 11:09      Profile for Snaggy   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
So, is there a little part, deep down inside your Mac fanboy, who is worried about Apple's next OS?

Myself, I'm waiting for the shoe to drop on Classic. Nitrozac and I still rely on it to run Fireworks, which performs WAY better (as in faster, less lag while drawing, or selecting tools) for us in Classic than it does in its OS X versions. So if we couldn't run that, I'd be rather pissed.

I imagine the PPC will be on the way out too soon enough. I can't see Jobs wanting to support it for much longer. [cry baby]

(On that note, anyone interested in buying my lovely 17" PowerBook, formerly owned by a certain Steve Wozniak? [Razz] )

Posts: 8111 | From: Canada | Registered: Jan 2000  |  IP: Logged
macmcseboy

Solid Nitrozanium SuperFan!
Member # 1232

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Icon 1 posted September 24, 2007 11:21      Profile for macmcseboy     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Classic Only exists on PPC machines. The day you Go with an Intel based Mac, The antiquity known as Classic will be gone. I have stopped supporting PPC machines that are beige... Apple is slowly stepping away from the G3... Trayloading iMacs and early Slot loaders were killed this month. iBook G3's are done up to 600MHZ are no longer supported... Some early G4's are done too... Upgrade now, because Classic is dying and 9 is dead. Long live Mac OS X and it's successors! Farewell PPC! Embrace the CORE!

--------------------
Live long and prosper.

Posts: 1139 | From: Victoria BC... | Registered: Mar 2002  |  IP: Logged
Snaggy

Sir Snaggalot!
Member # 123

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Icon 12 posted September 24, 2007 11:26      Profile for Snaggy   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
macmcseboy, being dependent on the sales of new Macs, you are biased, and have no place in your icy Jobsian heart for those left behind in the silicon dust of technology's cruel acceleration.

[tired]

Posts: 8111 | From: Canada | Registered: Jan 2000  |  IP: Logged
macmcseboy

Solid Nitrozanium SuperFan!
Member # 1232

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Icon 1 posted September 24, 2007 13:11      Profile for macmcseboy     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
I depend on broken machines Snaggy!... I make little or no margin on new machine sales. You know this to be true. I encourage people to move forward. WRT to Fireworks... You need to complain to Adobe. IMNSHO they are pulling a Quark... I have never seen them be the way they are now... in forever. Look what they made CSII users to who bought intel machines... made them pay for yet another upgrade... I have to say, I am more than disappointed in Adobe's actions and they had more than enough time and knowledge to move their product over to Universal status... Bad move on thier part.. A very Quarkian Move.

WRT Apple Support Mandate.... They are only required to support a product up to 5 years post discontinuation... The only exception is the stte of California, whereby if you have original proof of purchase and are the original owner, you can get support for the product for however long you own the product.

All being said.. Adobe needs to change it's bloated attitude, and ways...

--------------------
Live long and prosper.

Posts: 1139 | From: Victoria BC... | Registered: Mar 2002  |  IP: Logged
Snaggy

Sir Snaggalot!
Member # 123

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Icon 8 posted September 24, 2007 17:16      Profile for Snaggy   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
From Adam C. Engst's tidbits...

Another question unanswered for me on the Apple website is - will 10.5 allow the Classic environment to run? Does anyone here know?

No, it won't. Classic is dead, both on all Intel-based Macs running
Tiger, and on all Macs running Leopard.

-Adam C. Engst

http://emperor.tidbits.com/TidBITS/Talk/1487/[email protected]@

crap.

Posts: 8111 | From: Canada | Registered: Jan 2000  |  IP: Logged
macmcseboy

Solid Nitrozanium SuperFan!
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Icon 1 posted September 24, 2007 20:25      Profile for macmcseboy     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
That is technically accurate... It will not run on Intel base Macs. There is no mention if True Blue will still exist on 10.5 on a PPC machine..Which I think is likely.... Thus there is hope.

--------------------
Live long and prosper.

Posts: 1139 | From: Victoria BC... | Registered: Mar 2002  |  IP: Logged
maximile

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Icon 1 posted September 25, 2007 13:45      Profile for maximile   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
From Adam C. Engst's tidbits...
...and on all Macs running Leopard.

I think that's the bit worrying Snaggy.

Seems like you might be screwed. =/

Posts: 1085 | From: London, UK (Powys, UK in hols) | Registered: Feb 2005  |  IP: Logged
littlefish
BlabberMouth, a Blabber Odyssey
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Icon 1 posted September 26, 2007 04:02      Profile for littlefish   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Saw this in google news today:
Gruniad link

867 G4 or later, apparently.

Posts: 2421 | From: That London | Registered: Nov 2001  |  IP: Logged
pixel_pusher01

Member # 11735

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Icon 1 posted October 18, 2007 15:10      Profile for pixel_pusher01     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
I'm kinda disappointed that due to the CPU minimum system requirements, my beloved PowerMac G4 (Gigabit Ethernet) is now considered 'obsolete'. Think a processor upgrade would make a difference?

On the other hand, I thought the same thing when I discovered (belatedly) that iMovie '08 wouldn't install on my 2 year old PowerBook- but then I heard how most people didn't like it for the lack of editing capabilities, and decided that iLife would go on.

Have to say though, a lot of the features that Leopard is bringing to the table don't blow my skirt up, aside from the new Dock and Cover Flow for Finder... and what's up with the transparent Menu bar? Did someone really ASK for that? [Confused]

--------------------
Mike: "You know, a lot of people have compared this scene to the climactic chariot scene in "Ben Hur."
Tom Servo: "Uh-huh?"
Mike: "Yeah, you know, they usually say, "Ben Hur was really good. This movie totally sucks."

óMystery Science Theater 3000, episode #820- Space Mutiny

Posts: 32 | From: San Antonio, TX | Registered: Oct 2007  |  IP: Logged
maximile

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Icon 1 posted October 19, 2007 06:42      Profile for maximile   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by pixel_pusher01:
Have to say though, a lot of the features that Leopard is bringing to the table don't blow my skirt up, aside from the new Dock and Cover Flow for Finder... and what's up with the transparent Menu bar? Did someone really ASK for that? [Confused]

I think a lot of people are a bit disappointed with Leopard's features, but I remember feeling the same way when Tiger came out. The thing is, now whenever I have to use 10.3 it feels so awkward and clunky in comparison. I suspect we'll think that Tiger is clunky as soon as we've used Leopard for a while.

I don't think many people will be staying on Tiger for too long, mainly because the developer features are so enticing that few people will want to write for 10.4 any more. I suspect most new independent software will be Leopard-only pretty soon.

Posts: 1085 | From: London, UK (Powys, UK in hols) | Registered: Feb 2005  |  IP: Logged
pixel_pusher01

Member # 11735

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Icon 1 posted October 19, 2007 07:35      Profile for pixel_pusher01     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Too true, Maximile- and of couse, like any good Mac fanboy, I'll run out and get Leopard before the end of the year- hey, I have to keep my collection of Mac OS packaging complete! [Wink]

But I also understand Snaggy's concerns- though I don't use Classic hardly at all anymore; but it's still nice to have that safety net just in case I have to fire up a Classic-based app. I can imagine the terror and apprehension involved in being forced to find a differnet solution for a piece of the production pipeline.

Besides, like i mentioned, I don't like the idea that my PowerMac is considered by Apple to be "obsolete". It's not just my computer, it's my friend, and it has kinda the same emotional connection as a family member getting old and ready to die. [Frown]

--------------------
Mike: "You know, a lot of people have compared this scene to the climactic chariot scene in "Ben Hur."
Tom Servo: "Uh-huh?"
Mike: "Yeah, you know, they usually say, "Ben Hur was really good. This movie totally sucks."

óMystery Science Theater 3000, episode #820- Space Mutiny

Posts: 32 | From: San Antonio, TX | Registered: Oct 2007  |  IP: Logged
pixel_pusher01

Member # 11735

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Icon 1 posted October 19, 2007 07:41      Profile for pixel_pusher01     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Snaggy:
...for those left behind in the silicon dust of technology's cruel acceleration.

Hmmm, well spoken, Snaggy.

--------------------
Mike: "You know, a lot of people have compared this scene to the climactic chariot scene in "Ben Hur."
Tom Servo: "Uh-huh?"
Mike: "Yeah, you know, they usually say, "Ben Hur was really good. This movie totally sucks."

óMystery Science Theater 3000, episode #820- Space Mutiny

Posts: 32 | From: San Antonio, TX | Registered: Oct 2007  |  IP: Logged
MacManKrisK

Gold Hearted SuperFan!
Member # 955

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Icon 1 posted October 19, 2007 09:34      Profile for MacManKrisK     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Anyone remember the days of good old System 7.5.3? Ran on the then 10+ year old, 8MHz, 68000-based Mac Plus. Ran on the newest Power Macs (albeit much faster than than on the Plus).

Just what the funkinmonkey happened to you, Apple?! Why have you betrayed me and crushed my hopes and dreams? Why must you be so Microsoftish and force me to upgrade my hardware with almost every OS release?! [cry baby]

Low End Mac has an article that pretty much sums up my feelings, far more clearly than I can express them: If a Mac Plus can Run System 7.5.5, Why Can't an 800 MHz G4 Run Leopard?

Fsck this! I will no longer be a slave to your gorgeous -- but impossible to open, upgrade, or fix -- hardware! I forsake your easy-to-use, beautiful, shiny SHELL of an OS, running (in such a Windows-like fashion) atop another OS that was never designed to be used as a desktop system!

Screw you, Steve, I'm switching to Linux!

--------------------
"Buy low, sell high
get rich and you still die"


Posts: 2331 | From: Southwest Michigan, USA | Registered: Oct 2001  |  IP: Logged
dragonman97

SuperFan!
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Icon 1 posted October 19, 2007 17:07      Profile for dragonman97   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
I wrote a long comment, and it got destroyed by UBB. Bah humbug. I saved it with the power of HTTPWerkzeug, but I CBA to fix it until later. Dinner beckons.

--------------------
There are three things you can be sure of in life: Death, taxes, and reading about fake illnesses online...

Posts: 9332 | From: Westchester County, New York | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
dragonman97

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Icon 1 posted October 19, 2007 17:11      Profile for dragonman97   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Aha...by the magic of Eric Meyer's URL decoder*:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SheepShaver

(Wrapped in a code tag because UBB doesn't like /something/ in this)
code:
I can't speak to how well that would work, but I remember reading good
things in the past about it. I also know nothing about the "ROM"
requirements, or how to tackle that (I have a "New World" PPC mini -
I don't know if I can obtain something from that to try on the
MacBook...but I don't have the time or inclination to find out
now.)

Also, Snaggy, I'd like to point out that you're offering a better deal
than Apple's Education pricing - that might be a noteworthy thing to put
in your copy. ;P (List: $129; Education: $116; Amazon+Snaggy: $109;)
It's kind of surprising to see this price go up...last go around,
it was <$76 for academic! (But maybe the list for 10.4 was ~$99?)

* http://meyerweb.com/eric/tools/dencoder/

--------------------
There are three things you can be sure of in life: Death, taxes, and reading about fake illnesses online...

Posts: 9332 | From: Westchester County, New York | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
Callipygous
BlabberMouth, a Blabber Odyssey
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Icon 1 posted October 19, 2007 17:24      Profile for Callipygous     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by MacManKrisK:
Anyone remember the days of good old System 7.5.3?

Yes it was old, but good? It was an elegant and clean looking OS, but I remember the various versions of System 7.5 as being the buggiest and most crash prone ever Mac OS, when you needed to keep a constant eye on your extensions folder to try and nurse your Mac into any semblance of stability, a time when Windows, though still ugly and unpleasant, overtook the Mac OS as a functional OS. It was a time of drift with no direction, when Apple the company seemed to be an almost anarchic organisation that nobody could direct or control, when dozens of new exciting ideas were floated, and most never realised, a time when staying with the Mac was as much an act of faith as a practical decision.

I find these times much more exciting. If there is such a thing as a golden age for the Mac, it's now not then.

I notice that among the new features listed on this page, Apple has finally removed one of the most inexplicable and annoying glitches in iCal, namely that you can now have default alarms as a preference, and so automatically create an alarm for each event that you create. Why this has taken them so long I will never understand, as why would you put an item in your calendar in the first place if it doesn't matter if you miss it? Nuts.

--------------------
"Knowledge is Power. France is Bacon" - Milton

Posts: 2922 | From: Brighton - UK | Registered: Mar 2003  |  IP: Logged
Snaggy

Sir Snaggalot!
Member # 123

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Icon 1 posted October 19, 2007 17:50      Profile for Snaggy   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Calli re: iCal... that non-alarm aspect of iCal drives me nuts too.

Having just viewed the Leopard Guided Tour movie, I am suitably RDF'ed to want a get new Mac. [Razz] I like the improvements to Mail, that's the app I spend a heck of lot of time in.

MacM: Have to admit, I like the Mac better now than the old days. Networking is (usually) so much easier now, and a host of other things.
It's really just the one ap that ties me to Classic. Gotta admit, I can't wait to install Leopard on my mom's MacBook and play with it. [Smile]

Posts: 8111 | From: Canada | Registered: Jan 2000  |  IP: Logged
maximile

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Icon 1 posted October 25, 2007 12:01      Profile for maximile   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Confirmation: http://docs.info.apple.com/article.html?artnum=303137

tldr: No Classic on 10.5 on either architecture.

Posts: 1085 | From: London, UK (Powys, UK in hols) | Registered: Feb 2005  |  IP: Logged
pixel_pusher01

Member # 11735

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Icon 9 posted October 26, 2007 07:45      Profile for pixel_pusher01     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
<sigh> I guess it had to happen sometime... although I don't run any Classic apps on my PB G4, (which will receive Leopard), I do have some Classic apps on my G4 Power Mac (After Effects, PS 7, AI 10) that I occasionally use- especially After Effects, which I pull up on occasion, just to keep my hand in it. What Snaggy said at the beginning has got me thinking about what will happen to these if I ever upgrade this Mac.

However, Panther didn't install Classic initially, but I was able to add it after the fact by doing a customized install later. Couldn't you, say, copy over the System 9 folder from an older machine (or backup the folder before upgrading) and then drop it in after Leopard is in place? If your machine already has Classic installed, does it completely eliminate the System 9 folder? Will it still allow you to boot into OS9 Full if you want, rather than running Classic in the background?

Gonna be at our local Apple Retail store for the Leopard Premiere this afternoon, and these are the questions I'll be peppering the Apple staff with...

--------------------
Mike: "You know, a lot of people have compared this scene to the climactic chariot scene in "Ben Hur."
Tom Servo: "Uh-huh?"
Mike: "Yeah, you know, they usually say, "Ben Hur was really good. This movie totally sucks."

óMystery Science Theater 3000, episode #820- Space Mutiny

Posts: 32 | From: San Antonio, TX | Registered: Oct 2007  |  IP: Logged


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