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Author Topic: Paying for Music...
markhb
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Icon 2 posted September 26, 2005 04:45      Profile for markhb   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
OK, I want to clarify my "Who cares, I rarely pay for music" vote, because after I clicked it I realized there were two ways to interpret it. (I also realize that I am making a semi-big deal out of nothing [Wink] ). Mine was a "I rarely buy music because I rarely obtain music" vote, not a "I rarely buy music but I have an iPod full of songs I never paid anything for" vote. When I do buy something, it's a CD, but usually I'd rather listen to a ballgame or Imus.

Which explains my total lack of desire for an expensive dongle that requires headphones and doesn't receive AM radio.

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- Mark
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Callipygous
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Icon 1 posted September 26, 2005 05:28      Profile for Callipygous     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
I saw this Joy of Tech cartoon before reading the news story and imagined that it was mostly an off the wall fantasy.

How incredible that nearly everything but the punchline was true. What planet does he live on?

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"Knowledge is Power. France is Bacon" - Milton

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dragonman97

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Icon 1 posted September 26, 2005 08:28      Profile for dragonman97   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
I have yet to buy anything on iTMS because I figure it could suck a lot of money out of my wallet. Still, I think the pricing is pretty fair, and should absolutely stay as is. This business of variable pricing is utter BS - how can they not see how that would start to kill sales? Greed is bad, mmkay?

Nice job, N+S!

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There are three things you can be sure of in life: Death, taxes, and reading about fake illnesses online...

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Bibo
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Icon 1 posted September 26, 2005 08:47      Profile for Bibo   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
I'm still a Dinosaur, I just ordered 2 CDs last night. When an actual CD is only $2 - $3 more than a download from iTunes I'm getting the CD. I have purchased a few CDs from iTunes because the CDs were imports and $30 - $40 where iTunes was only charging $7.99 - $9.99.

And as far as the CDs becoming "Coasters"... I have had to re-rip many of my CDs due to corrupt tracks now and then and accidentally deleting 40 gigs worth of rips [Eek!] . Don't toss or sell your CDs after you rip them!

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Stereo

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Icon 1 posted September 26, 2005 09:12      Profile for Stereo     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Bibo:
Don't toss or sell your CDs after you rip them!

Especially as if you sell them, you are no longer owning the right to have that song. That's the other way of pirating music... [ohwell]

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Eppur, si muove!

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Xanthine

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Icon 1 posted September 26, 2005 12:33      Profile for Xanthine     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
I make the most use out of iTunes when Pepsi is doing a free song promo. I buy Pepsi out of the vending machines in the building daily, so it's not like I'm falling into any marketing traps. I accumulated so many caps the last go around that I gave some away to lab mates as well as redeeming about 12 songs.

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The Famous Druid

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Icon 1 posted September 26, 2005 13:42      Profile for The Famous Druid     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Construct a well-known phrase, using the words "kill", "goose", "golden" and "egg"....

As it is, iTMS is pretty similar in cost to buying the CDs, if they start charging more, 'market forces' will come into play (cue 'Kazaa' theme music...)


(still no iTMS in oz btw, the record companies are too busy pouring champagne down the sink to agree on the deal...)

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TMBWITW,PB

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Icon 1 posted September 26, 2005 13:55      Profile for TMBWITW,PB     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
I've only bought two songs from iTunes and they were so Josh could get ready to sing them at Karaoke. [Razz] I almost never listen to the radio anymore (too much crap) so my iPod mini is filled with all the CDs I've had since 1998. Most of it is probably musical soundtracks.

Explain to me why the record companies think they have a say in how much iTunes charges for the songs. Do they tell Wal*Mart how much they can charge for CDs? Do they tell the bands how much they can charge for concerts? [Roll Eyes]

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The White Tree
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Icon 1 posted September 26, 2005 13:57      Profile for The White Tree     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
I download songs rarely, and when I do, it is usually because I plan to buy that CD and I just want to sample some of the music. I like blowing my money to benefit the economy. Best Buy really profits from me.
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The Famous Druid

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Icon 1 posted September 26, 2005 14:00      Profile for The Famous Druid     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by TMBWITW,PB:
Explain to me why the record companies think they have a say in how much iTunes charges for the songs. ... Do they tell the bands how much they can charge for concerts? [Roll Eyes]

Shhhh !
Don't give them ideas !

btw - a close read of this typical anti-piracy rant reveals the following interesting snippet of information...
quote:
Music industry analyst Phil Tripp says the industry has been quick to blame internet piracy for a drop in revenue without looking at its own failings.

"With the mergers of the six main players into four we have seen a 50 per cent cut in staff and artists, and a 40 per cent drop in new releases," he says. "You tell me what industry increases revenue by slicing itself in half."



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If you watch 'The History Of NASA' backwards, it's about a space agency that has no manned spaceflight capability, then does low-orbit flights, then lands on the Moon.

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Grummash

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Icon 1 posted September 26, 2005 14:10      Profile for Grummash     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
I like the iTMS. Sometimes I buy a CD, sometimes I download a legit track or five from iTMS. It is not the Holy Grail, but it is an excellent way to get that one track you really want without paying for all the album-fillers that normally come with it. However, I also remember when buying a "proper" new album meant hours spent poring over the artwork on a gatefold sleeve with extra pages stuck in like a book, full size lyric sheets and a fold-up poster of the Pyramids.....
"Time for your medication Mr Grummash" [Frown]

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...and yet, across the gulf of space, minds immeasurably superior to ours regarded this earth with envious eyes...

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Serenak

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Icon 1 posted September 26, 2005 14:26      Profile for Serenak     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
That would be Pyramania by Alan Parsons Project then, am I remembering it right...

"... like the one printed on the back of the dollar bill"

[Beard of Peter Gabriel!]

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"So if you want my address - it's No. 1 at the end of the bar, where I sit with the broken angels, clutching at straws and nursing my scars..."

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csk

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Icon 1 posted September 26, 2005 15:12      Profile for csk     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by dragonman97:
This business of variable pricing is utter BS - how can they not see how that would start to kill sales?

Interestingly, you've made the same assumption as the RIAA stooge, that variable pricing would mean that the current price is the minimum. I actually think variable pricing is quite workable, as long as the average price per track remains around the same, with some tracks costing less, and some costing more.

But yes, they can't seem to grasp basic supply and demand economics. Then again, cartels tend to change this stuff anyway.

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6 weeks to go!

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ASM65816
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Icon 9 posted September 26, 2005 18:12      Profile for ASM65816   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
I actually think variable pricing is quite workable, as long as the average price per track remains around the same, with some tracks costing less, and some costing more.
You know if some of the current "bands" would vary album prices proportionally to their quality, they might sell more albums..... But then again, $1.37 plus tax might still be too much.   [evil]

Does anyone else get the feeling that "prefab" bands are the music industry focus? Hot chick singing? Boy band, girl band? Lyrics provided by the record label.....

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Rhonwyyn

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Icon 1 posted September 26, 2005 18:15      Profile for Rhonwyyn   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Just like Hollywood, pop music is totally formulaic.

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csk

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Icon 1 posted September 26, 2005 18:29      Profile for csk     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Even if they vary prices according to how recently it's been released it'll be something. But in any case, they're still way overpriced. As I've said in similar discussions previously, there's something dramatically wrong when it's commonplace for the DVD version of a movie, complete with special features, etc, to be cheaper than the soundtrack on CD, which has the recording and (usually) nothing else. And the DVD industry isn't poor, in fact, they're making money hand over fist.

Hey, maybe the RIAA should go after them, since we're obviously spending money we would have otherwise spent on CDs on DVDs instead [Roll Eyes]

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6 weeks to go!

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The White Tree
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Icon 1 posted September 26, 2005 20:10      Profile for The White Tree     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
That brings up something else. Are record companies charging an arm and a leg? Well, I don't think its an arm and a leg, but it IS more than they ought to be getting for a flippin CD. Don't you just love how their lives are rule by money. Yes, everyone is entitled to it and such, but do they need THAT much money?
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Erbo
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Icon 1 posted September 26, 2005 23:13      Profile for Erbo     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
I did a summary post on EMinds awhile back about a number of the reasons the record companies are losing sales:
  • Fewer new titles are being released by the labels (38,900 in 1999 vs. 27,000 in 2001).
  • Labels are concentrating on short-term hits, not building their back catalogs that will yield more money in the long run.
  • Labels are deemphasizing singles in favor of more-profitable (and higher-priced) albums, which can trigger the "screw it, I'll download the MP3" mindset in the consumer.
  • Fewer actual CDs are being shipped to stores. The stores can't sell what the record company doesn't ship them...
  • Retailers (especially Wal-Mart and other big chain stores) are devoting less retail space to CDs, in favor of higher-margin DVDs and video games.
  • DVDs and video games offer better entertainment value for the money.
  • DVDs, video games, mobile phones, etc., are stiffer competition for the youth market. This may be related to the previous issue.
  • CD counterfeiting (especially overseas) is still a big problem.
  • The replacement market for the format change from vinyl and cassette to CD is largely tapped out.
  • Meanwhile, there's been a de facto format change to MP3 and other digital-distribution formats, that the labels missed the boat on (and in fact that only the non-legal file-trading services were supplying for some time).
  • And, in case they hadn't noticed, we had a recession and a lot of people were out of work!
Notice that these issues only peripherally involve the issue of unauthorized copying? Yet, from the rhetoric they're spewing, you'd think the sky was falling.

But, as long as the record company execs get to keep enjoying their six-martini lunches, their limos and Learjets full of pneumatic blonde bimbos, and their lines of cocaine at swank Hollywood parties, who cares, right? </sarcasm>

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See more From The Erbo Files: www.erbosoft.com/blog/

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Bibo
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Icon 1 posted September 26, 2005 23:39      Profile for Bibo   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Erbo:
I did a summary post on EMinds awhile back about a number of the reasons the record companies are losing sales:......
[*]DVDs and video games offer better entertainment value for the money.

.......

I have to disagree there. I see better value in a CD. A CD has better replay value than a DVD or Video game. On average how many times do you watch a movie compared to the number of times you listen to a CD? I still listen to CDs that I purchased in 1985. Compared to say a movie I've purchased on DVD that gets 2 - 3 plays on average. Plus it is much eaiser to listen to music just about anywhere, anytime.

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greycat

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Icon 1 posted September 27, 2005 05:22      Profile for greycat   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by TMBWITW,PB:
Explain to me why the record companies think they have a say in how much iTunes charges for the songs. Do they tell Wal*Mart how much they can charge for CDs?

Why, yes, actually they do.

From http://www.ftc.gov/os/2000/09/musicstatement.htm --

quote:
The Minimum Advertised Pricing ("MAP") policies of the five distributors in this matter go well beyond the cooperative advertising programs with which the Commission has previously dealt: the distributors' MAP policies prohibited retailers from advertising discounts in all advertising, including advertising paid for entirely by the retailer; the MAP policies applied to in-store advertising, excepting only the smallest price labels affixed to the product; and a single violation of a distributor's MAP policy carried severe financial penalties, resulting in the loss of all MAP funds for all of the retailer's stores for 60 to 90 days (see Paragraph 7 of each Complaint).

Retailers were free to sell at any price, so long as they did not advertise a discounted price. In fact, there was evidence that some retailers on rare occasions did sell product at a discount without advertising the discounted price, instead advertising simply that the product was available at a "guaranteed low price." We are therefore reluctant to declare that compliance with the MAP policies by retailers constituted per se unlawful minimum resale price maintenance, because we cannot say that there is sufficient evidence of an agreement by retailers to charge a minimum price. ...

Loose translation into English: while everyone knows they're colluding in ways that violate the antitrust laws, we couldn't find enough evidence to prove it in court.
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Grummash

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Icon 1 posted September 27, 2005 11:52      Profile for Grummash     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
That would be Pyramania by Alan Parsons Project then, am I remembering it right
Hi Serenak - 'fraid not. When I referred to ".. gatefold sleeve with extra pages stuck in like a book, full size lyric sheets and a fold-up poster of the Pyramids..... it was a conflation of "Olias of Sunhillow" by Jon Anderson and Pink Floyd's "Wish You Were Here" two LP's which I am sure are never far away from your gramophone [Beard of Peter Gabriel!] [Big Grin]

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...and yet, across the gulf of space, minds immeasurably superior to ours regarded this earth with envious eyes...

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Serenak

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Icon 1 posted September 27, 2005 15:45      Profile for Serenak     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Oh well Grummash: can't get'em all right all the time...

Of course if you are not familiar with it you should go check it out (that and "Eye in the Sky")

Actually I once worked with a guy who claimed to have done his national service with Ian Anderson (no reason to doubt him to be fair-he was also apparently well acquainted with the "Caroline" crew 'cause he'd been a very minor DJ on there for a very short time...)

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ASM65816
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Icon 1 posted September 27, 2005 19:42      Profile for ASM65816   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
FWIW: In the past year, I've bought three music CD's at about $13 each: a compilation of various artists, an old album that I wanted to add to my collection, and one that was released about two years ago.

From iTunes, I've gotten over 50 songs in the past three years, and I like the free song promos ... I mean $0.99 price. [Big Grin]

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jordanv
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Icon 1 posted September 27, 2005 20:45      Profile for jordanv     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
I have found the best value at $10 dollar cd shops (that is AUD by the way).

Economies of scale: they import mostly european and south american manufactured cds.

Lots of great stuff: the entire led zep backcatalog..david bowie etc etc right through to latest release cds (not that I buy that modern rubbish).

My cd spending has rocketed because of this store. This year I have purchased $500 worth of music and got 50 cds in return.

Oh snap I just realised that money would really be useful now to cover my operating expenses (hmm that makes me sound like a robot).

Hey didn't the Ramones write a song about this?

<singing>The RIAA...The RIAA took my baby away...</singing>

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csk

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Icon 1 posted September 27, 2005 20:52      Profile for csk     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by jordanv:
I have found the best value at $10 dollar cd shops (that is AUD by the way).

Economies of scale: they import mostly european and south american manufactured cds.

Lots of great stuff: the entire led zep backcatalog..david bowie etc etc right through to latest release cds (not that I buy that modern rubbish).

My cd spending has rocketed because of this store. This year I have purchased $500 worth of music and got 50 cds in return.

Same here, actually. You're talking about Dirt Cheap CDs in Pitt Street, right? There's that one, and the other similar one just a few doors away. Plus JB High Fi sometimes has some decent $10 specials, as does Utopia.

Hmm, our office moving into the CBD was really bad for my budget [Frown]

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6 weeks to go!

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