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Author Topic: Grammar lesson, anyone?
csk

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Icon 1 posted January 31, 2005 19:22      Profile for csk     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Rhonwyyn:
quote:
Originally posted by csk:
//Actually, "csk" isn't capitalised, either [Razz]

Now you tell me?! [Eek!]

I've been reading it as caps ever since I came to this board. Hmm, I wonder if that's my dyslexia showing? [Confused]

Never mind, it doesn't really matter. I was just being a pedant [Wink]

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Rhonwyyn

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Icon 1 posted January 31, 2005 19:26      Profile for Rhonwyyn   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
<continue pedant>
In civilized countries we spell it "capitalized." Then again, we spell it "civilized," too.

And yes, it is spelled "it." [Razz]

</continue pedant>

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Icon 1 posted January 31, 2005 19:38      Profile for n4dmx     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:

if (not $hungry) { &dont_eat(); }

code:
else {
chop ($uey);
}

[Big Grin]
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magefile
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Icon 1 posted January 31, 2005 19:41      Profile for magefile     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Isn't punctuation inside quotes legitimate in the UK? Certainly makes sense to me. I'd hate to tell a newbie to go into vi and do a "dd." Think of the consequences, Rhonnwyn!

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csk

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Icon 1 posted January 31, 2005 19:56      Profile for csk     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Rhonwyyn:
In civilized countries we spell it "capitalized." Then again, we spell it "civilized," too.

Hmm, I wonder what the English would say to that. You know, invented the English language, those ones? [Razz]

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Rhonwyyn

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Icon 1 posted January 31, 2005 20:12      Profile for Rhonwyyn   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Magefile, you mean punctuation outside quotes, right?

Typically, punctuation such as commas and periods belong inside the quotation marks. Exclamation points and question marks go outside the quotation marks unless they have relevance to the phrase contained within the quotation marks.

"Jon, did you get the pizza?" I asked.

"Thanks for getting the pizza," I said to Jon.

Exactly what is the "meaning of life"?

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dragonman97

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Icon 1 posted January 31, 2005 20:13      Profile for dragonman97   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Rhonwyyn:
<continue pedant>
In civilized countries we spell it "capitalized." Then again, we spell it "civilized," too.

And yes, it is spelled "it." [Razz]

</continue pedant>

That's malformed XML, Rhonwyyn. [Wink]

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dragonman97

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Icon 1 posted January 31, 2005 20:20      Profile for dragonman97   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by magefile:
Isn't punctuation inside quotes legitimate in the UK? Certainly makes sense to me. I'd hate to tell a newbie to go into vi and do a "dd." Think of the consequences, Rhonnwyn!

Think how bad it would be if they typed the double quotation marks, too. For *nix commands, I usually stick to backticks. (e.g. Type `foo bar baz`. Punctuation outside the backticks is obviously fine in such a case, though I often let the backtick be my closing punctuation. [That may be wrong - I'm not really sure what grammar pedants have to say about code.])

You're better off to use white space, and possibly some form of line delimiters, HTML, or UBB, such as:
code:
<code>dd if=/dev/zero of=/dev/hda</code>

-or-

-----------------
dd if=/dev/zero of=/dev/hda
-----------------

In the case of vi, it's a little hairer, and I'd just point them at the man page. [Wink] Besides, doesn't everyone know how to use vi? It's so easy to use, no wonder it's #1!

:wq

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The Famous Druid

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Icon 1 posted January 31, 2005 20:29      Profile for The Famous Druid     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Rhonwyyn:
<continue pedant>
In civilized countries we spell it "capitalized." Then again, we spell it "civilized," too.

"America is the first country to have gone from barbarism to decadence without the usual intervening period of civilization."
-- Oscar Wilde

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sumnchai
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Icon 1 posted January 31, 2005 20:36      Profile for sumnchai     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
England is also the country that did away with Edwardian English. Ain't it? (By the by, there is a reason "ain't" is part of the language - because it used to be proper.)

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Rhonwyyn

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Icon 1 posted January 31, 2005 21:42      Profile for Rhonwyyn   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by dragonman97:
quote:
</continue pedant>
That's malformed XML, Rhonwyyn. [Wink]
I've never claimed to code, dman. I'm just assimilating what I've observed. [Razz] I s'pose the correct form would've been </pedant>? However, since I was continuing the pedant from csk's post, I figured I'd have to end the continued pedant, no?

In all honesty, the only codes I can read/write half-decently are Perl and HTML, but even then they look like a kindergartner's attempt to converse like an adult. [Frown]

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csk

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Icon 1 posted January 31, 2005 21:55      Profile for csk     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Rhonwyyn:
I've never claimed to code, dman. I'm just assimilating what I've observed. [Razz]

Hey, I'm the one doing the assimilating around here! [Wink]


quote:
In all honesty, the only code I can read/write half-decently is Perl, but even then it looks like a kindergartner's attempt to converse like a adult.
Sounds like you're fluent in Perl to me, then [Wink]

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Rhonwyyn

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Icon 1 posted January 31, 2005 21:58      Profile for Rhonwyyn   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Oh blast, csk. Why'd you have to quote my pre-edited comment? Now my grammar mistake is there for everyone to see! :pout:

But thanks for the compliment! [Razz]

(Chalk it up to Clipper to cure me of my aversion to beginning sentences with conjunctions! :/)

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csk

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Icon 1 posted January 31, 2005 22:00      Profile for csk     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Rhonwyyn:
Oh blast, csk. Why'd you have to quote my pre-edited comment? Now my grammar mistake is there for everyone to see! :pout:

Because I have no life other than sitting here pressing Ctrl-R all day?

/Only partly true. Honest!

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MacGoldstein
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Icon 10 posted January 31, 2005 23:47      Profile for MacGoldstein     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Wow, I wasn't expecting this post to garner so many replies. I'm a long time-reader, first time poster type thing (well, I lurked for years), so I am used to the slashdot scene where I would have immediately been called a troll and modded down. Interesting.

Apparently there are intelligent people here capable of rationally discussing even tangental topics.

And about ain't... it was a contraction of am not, but never really was awarded any sort of legitimacy by the ruling grammar classes. They took offense at the fact that it could not be conceivably derived from any of the words from which it was supposed to have come. Nevertheless, it still enjoys use today. I rather liked the American Heritage Board's rant about it though:

quote:
The stigmatization of ain't leaves us with no happy alternative for use in first-person questions. The widely used aren't I? though illogical, was found acceptable for use in speech by a majority of the Usage Panel in an earlier survey, but in writing there is no acceptable substitute for the stilted am I not?
Aren't I? Of course I are.

Ok, back to combinatorics.

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Swiss Mercenary

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Icon 1 posted February 01, 2005 02:43      Profile for Swiss Mercenary     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Rhonwyyn:
<continue pedant>
In civilized countries we spell it "capitalized." Then again, we spell it "civilized," too.

And yes, it is spelled "it." [Razz]

</continue pedant>

I though that in civilised countries we spell it "capitalised." [Razz]

quote:
Originally posted by The Famous Druid:
quote:
Originally posted by Rhonwyyn:
Silly CSK!!

Two exclamation marks ?
<Discworld reference>
Actually, it is when there are five exclamation marks that we have to start to worry.
</Discworld reference>

(7)

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Papa
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Icon 1 posted February 01, 2005 02:59      Profile for Papa     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by MacGoldstein:

Sorry to rant so much, but I love language, grammar, linguistics, the whole bit, so forgive me. If anyone that's not a CS-Math major (not me) could be so kind to comment upon the legitimacy of my concerns, feel welcome to do so (English professors especially so). Otherwise...
.

Shouldn't that be "not I"? [Smile]

Have you looked at http://forums.delphiforums.com/n/main.asp?webtag=dictionary&nav=messages ? You'd be right at home there, really. [Smile]

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Papa
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Icon 2 posted February 01, 2005 03:17      Profile for Papa     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Rhonwyyn:
Silly CSK!! The comma goes within the quotation marks, not outside of them!

Sorry, Rhonwyyn, that's a US English rule. CSK is in Australia. They put the commas and full stops outside the quote marks.

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greycat

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Icon 1 posted February 01, 2005 05:54      Profile for greycat   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Rhonwyyn:
Silly CSK!! The comma goes within the quotation marks, not outside of them!

This is one of the cases where I tend to disagree with my elementary school teachers. And I think most people who have done a substantial amount of computer programming agree with me.

The following example:

quote:
"Must of," huh.
may be correct to 60-year-olds, but the comma is not part of the quotation (Snaggy did not have one in that position), and so it makes no sense to enclose it within the quotation marks. The comma in this example:

quote:
"Must of", huh.
shows that the quotation "Must of" is being used as a separate entity, and that the "huh" is a comment or interjection which applies to the quoted entity. Compare to:

quote:
Dell, eh? What a crappy computer!
quote:
Belt and suspenders, huh?

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greycat

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Icon 1 posted February 01, 2005 06:04      Profile for greycat   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by dragonman97:
For *nix commands, I usually stick to backticks. (e.g. Type `foo bar baz`. Punctuation outside the backticks is obviously fine in such a case, though I often let the backtick be my closing punctuation.

That falls apart incredibly easily once you start getting into complex shell commands where single quotes ('), double quotes (") and backquotes (`) are all used together, and must not be mixed up. In IRC, the only realistic way to delimit a command is with whitespace, either horizontally (I usually use three spaces), or vertically (if you're in a channel where you can "flood" with multiple lines, and if the segment is short enough).

code:
<greycat> Try this:   for ((i=0; i<10; i++)); do echo "$i: `date +%H:%M:%S`"; sleep 1; done   and adjust it to suit your needs

That sort of thing. (Let's hope that the bracket-code-bracket thing preserves the spaces....)
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drunkennewfiemidget
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Icon 1 posted February 01, 2005 06:15      Profile for drunkennewfiemidget     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by dragonman97:
code:
dd if=/dev/zero of=/dev/hda


Not assuming anyone would, but if you're running Linux, don't ever run this command. [Razz]

quote:
Originally posted by Rhonwyyn
I s'pose the correct form would've been </pedant>?

No, </continue>
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Rhonwyyn

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Icon 1 posted February 01, 2005 08:30      Profile for Rhonwyyn   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Ahh, 'cause you're ceasing the verb, not the direct object. Makes sense. Thanks, DNM! [Smile]

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drunkennewfiemidget
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Icon 1 posted February 01, 2005 08:52      Profile for drunkennewfiemidget     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Rhonwyyn:
Ahh, 'cause you're ceasing the verb, not the direct object. Makes sense. Thanks, DNM! [Smile]

The type of word isn't necessarily relevant. It's just what the opening tag was.

<cookie cutter></cookie>
<hungrily ate></hungrily>
<killed women></killed>

There's also self-closing tags:

<chicken />

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dragonman97

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Icon 1 posted February 01, 2005 20:59      Profile for dragonman97   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
/me goes off to brush up on his XML - I didn't know you could have multiple bare words without attributes. I may very well be wrong, though.

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drunkennewfiemidget
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Icon 1 posted February 02, 2005 06:38      Profile for drunkennewfiemidget     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by dragonman97:
/me goes off to brush up on his XML - I didn't know you could have multiple bare words without attributes. I may very well be wrong, though.

You can't. I was just pointing out the obvious and leaving the pedantic to you. [Wink]
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