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Author Topic: What is the music world coming to???
Sprocket
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Icon 1 posted March 29, 2011 11:43      Profile for Sprocket   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
First off, I must say that as a man of the age of 22, I grew up in a not so nice neighborhood where I was exposed to Christian and Country music (in my house). Outside my house was rock, hip-hop, R&B, Jazz, and Bluegrass. So I listen to a good majority of what was out there.

I have had many conversations with MacManKrisK about new music and new artists. And I must say I do like some of the artist that he cant stand, but this one I think that him and I can agree on. I'm pretty sure that he will! Let me know what yall think!!!


Rebecca Black - Friday

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Life would be so much easier if we only had the source code.

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GrumpySteen

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Icon 1 posted March 29, 2011 13:22      Profile for GrumpySteen     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
In the same way that self-published books don't represent the publishing industry, Rebecca Black doesn't represent the music industry.

From Wikipedia:
In late 2010, a classmate of Black and music-video client of Ark Music Factory, a Los Angeles vanity record label, told her about the company. Black's mother, Georgina Kelly, paid Ark Music $2,000 for a package that included a choice of two pre-written songs; according to Kelly, the payment covered one half or less of the production costs of the music video, and Black's family could have paid nothing in exchange for giving up all rights to the song. Black chose "Friday", as "the other song was about adult love I haven't experienced that yet. 'Friday' is about hanging out with friends, having fun. I felt like it was my personality in that song." Ark Music handled the song's recording, which used the pitch-correcting software Auto-Tune. Although Kelly had some doubts over the quality of the lyrics, Black assured her that "I sang it as they wrote it, Mom."


(not that the music industry isn't pushing out crap that's nearly as bad

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MacManKrisK

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Icon 1 posted March 29, 2011 14:37      Profile for MacManKrisK     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Sprocket:
I have had many conversations with MacManKrisK about new music and new artists. And I must say I do like some of the artist that he cant stand, but this one I think that him and I can agree on. I'm pretty sure that he will!

Nope, can't say I like this. I can tell you why in one word: AutoTune.

<insert rant about how AutoTune has ruined the music industry and music in general here>

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"Buy low, sell high
get rich and you still die"


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Sprocket
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Icon 1 posted March 29, 2011 19:38      Profile for Sprocket   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by GrumpySteen:
(not that the music industry isn't pushing out crap that's nearly as bad

Didnt even have to click the link! Just looked at where it went. I understand why people hate AutoTune. It makes "talent" out of people who cant sing worth a nickel into overnight millionaires all for profit.... and people buy it.....

Can anyone say Idiocracy....

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Life would be so much easier if we only had the source code.

If brute force doesn't solve your problems, then you aren't using enough.

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GrumpySteen

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Icon 1 posted March 30, 2011 01:57      Profile for GrumpySteen     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Eh... I don't hate autotune.

It's like bullet-time (or any other special effect) in movies. If used sparingly and judiciously, it can add to the production. When it's overused or used badly, however, it's lame.

And I don't hate Rebecca Black, either. She's just an everyday teenager. She has dreams of stardom and a crush on Justin Bieber. She just also happens to have a mom who was willing to spend a few thousand dollars with a vanity music publishing business to let her live out that dream for a bit. I don't think it's any different than, say, paying to drive a NASCAR car, go to a rock and roll fantasy camp, a baseball fantasy camp or space camp (which I would have done in a heartbeat as a kid).

And I completely disagree that this is Idiocracy or anything like it. It's a kid singing on youtube, for god's sake. It's up there next to a guy getting a baseball to the groin and a monkey drinking its own urine. What level of quality do you really expect when you go there?

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Stereo

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Icon 1 posted March 30, 2011 02:41      Profile for Stereo     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Special effects should all abide by the same rule, and be used to add to the creativity, not to patch up defects.

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Eppur, si muove!

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Sprocket
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Icon 1 posted March 30, 2011 03:50      Profile for Sprocket   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
I think this is different than space camp or any other camp. What parent takes their daughter and pays to have them produce a song that is not good, and then has a website drawn up and throws them out on the internet to the wolves???

All I can see is she will be the next 4chan celebrity... if not already...

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Life would be so much easier if we only had the source code.

If brute force doesn't solve your problems, then you aren't using enough.

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GrumpySteen

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Icon 1 posted March 30, 2011 09:01      Profile for GrumpySteen     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
I don't think Rebecca Black's mom created YouTube and I'm pretty sure her two grand wasn't enough to buy it from Google...

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The Famous Druid

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Icon 1 posted March 30, 2011 09:59      Profile for The Famous Druid     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
I feel sorry for the kid.

The video's not that bad, and the autotune makes it impossible to tell if her voice is any good, but she's become the latest person the internet loves to hate.

All that negative attention is hard on a 13 year old, I just hope it doesn't drive her to doing something _really_ stupid.

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Grummash

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Icon 1 posted March 30, 2011 10:53      Profile for Grummash     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
First off, let's get my opinion of the track out of the way... I don't like it, but then I just don't like that sort of music anyway.

The interesting thing for me is the degree to which some people get wound up by this stuff. There is no point in discussing the musical integrity, or otherwise, of the piece because, to my knowledge at least,no claims to artistic merit have been made.

It's just a kid singing a song. The motives of the parents, however, are a whole separate issue.

For my last observation I am going to assume that at least some of the AutoTune haters feel qualified to criticise because they have tried, with whatever degree of success, to create and record music themselves. Of them I would ask the following question. Do you remember the thrill you felt the first time you painstakingly did your best to tap your killer drum riff into a sequencer or other programmable device, and then hit the magic "Quantise" button to make it all nice?

Plus ca change....

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...and yet, across the gulf of space, minds immeasurably superior to ours regarded this earth with envious eyes...

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MacManKrisK

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Icon 1 posted March 30, 2011 12:20      Profile for MacManKrisK     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Quantizing a percussion beat is not the same as autotuning a voice, but for the record, I hate the Quantization too!

I don't desire to spew vile onto anybody, but I detest AutoTune with a passion. It makes anybody into a "perfect" singer, which is just not right; and it removes any sort of artistry. I'm not against having a little technological assistance when recording a track, but there is a wide gap between singing to a click track (which is in itself a skill... and something I'm not so great at) and having all your notes tuned perfectly for you by the magic computerbox.

*shuts up before he says something stupid*

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"Buy low, sell high
get rich and you still die"


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Callipygous
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Icon 1 posted March 30, 2011 21:50      Profile for Callipygous     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
I'm with the Grum on this, just cannot understand why anyone gets so wound up by this, it's just disposable bubblegum, and the worst you can say is that it has an annoyingly catchy tune. I'll confess that I like it a little more than that, I think it fits into the so stupid it's genius category, and is a snapshot of a gloriously shallow world. I love that the big dilemma in her life is which seat to take in her lift to school.

As for Autotune etc., firstly computer wizardry can only lift a bad singer from painful to merely mediocre, but that's all. Secondly not all pop songs require a good singer, and there have been more than a few careers built on pretty unremarkable vocal performances (e.g. Madonna). So there's no point in getting annoyed about it.

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DoctorWho

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Icon 1 posted March 31, 2011 03:00      Profile for DoctorWho     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Speaking of bad you tube videos...

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Laughter is like changing a baby's diapers. It doesn't solve anything but it sure improves the situation. Leo F. Buscaglia

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Ugh, MightyClub
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Icon 1 posted March 31, 2011 05:40      Profile for Ugh, MightyClub     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by DoctorWho:
Speaking of bad you tube videos...

I am disturbed by how long I let that play before I killed it [blush]

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Ugh!

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Grummash

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Icon 1 posted March 31, 2011 17:21      Profile for Grummash     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by MMK:
Quantizing a percussion beat is not the same as autotuning a voice...

OK, if they are not the same....which is the one that isn't cheating? [evil]

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...and yet, across the gulf of space, minds immeasurably superior to ours regarded this earth with envious eyes...

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MacManKrisK

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Icon 1 posted April 01, 2011 02:57      Profile for MacManKrisK     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
THEY BOTH ARE! It's just that one is more cheating than another.

Here's a stupid cheating analogy I just thought of: Let's say you're in a class and you're sitting next to the person who has the highest grade in the class on the day of the big test. Quantizing is like copying one or two answers off of their paper, but AutoTune is like copying every answer.

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"Buy low, sell high
get rich and you still die"


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DoctorWho

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Icon 1 posted April 01, 2011 09:40      Profile for DoctorWho     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Ugh, MightyClub:
quote:
Originally posted by DoctorWho:
Speaking of bad you tube videos...

I am disturbed by how long I let that play before I killed it [blush]
When I had my wisdom teeth pulled the dentist gave me drugs that made me see things. This reminded me of that.

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Laughter is like changing a baby's diapers. It doesn't solve anything but it sure improves the situation. Leo F. Buscaglia

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Grummash

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Icon 1 posted April 02, 2011 06:41      Profile for Grummash     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by MMKK:
THEY BOTH ARE! It's just that one is more cheating than another.

I take your point - they are very different in degree, and I do agree that your analogy describes that difference very well. But in principle they are equivalent... technical help is technical help is technical help.

What I find interesting is how attitudes change over time, and how they can contradict each other in the first place. For example - early sequencers were considered the devil's work by many ("depriving live musicians of their rightful employment" was the usual moan). And yet so many musicians welcomed drum machines because there were not enough good drummers to go around. Thirty years later... and no-one gets upset about sequencers or drum machines. Now, the fashionable abomination is AutoTune. It doesn't really matter though: in another thirty years the hue and cry will be raised against holographic concerts..."depriving live musicians of their rightful employment..."

So, as I said originally - plus ca change... [Wink]

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...and yet, across the gulf of space, minds immeasurably superior to ours regarded this earth with envious eyes...

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TheMoMan
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Icon 1 posted April 02, 2011 09:07      Profile for TheMoMan         Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
____ You mean that my old Ampex and it's mixing board is just as viable as my old TI-99?

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Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.


Benjamin Franklin,

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GrumpySteen

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Icon 1 posted April 02, 2011 14:08      Profile for GrumpySteen     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Stephen Colbert did a pretty good job of polishing the turd that started this topic.

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Worst. Celibate. Ever.

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Sprocket
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Icon 1 posted April 03, 2011 05:10      Profile for Sprocket   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Grumpsteen,

Was going to post that today hence I saw it yesterday! oh well guess you beat me to it!

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-----------------------------------
Life would be so much easier if we only had the source code.

If brute force doesn't solve your problems, then you aren't using enough.

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GrumpySteen

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Icon 1 posted April 04, 2011 13:56      Profile for GrumpySteen     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Friday in Hell

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Worst. Celibate. Ever.

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Callipygous
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Icon 1 posted April 04, 2011 14:40      Profile for Callipygous     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by MacManKrisK:
THEY BOTH ARE! It's just that one is more cheating than another.

Here's a stupid cheating analogy I just thought of: Let's say you're in a class and you're sitting next to the person who has the highest grade in the class on the day of the big test. Quantizing is like copying one or two answers off of their paper, but AutoTune is like copying every answer.

Where your analogy falls down is that AutoTune cannot create good singing, it only stops dreadful singing from hurting your ears. There is a lot more to singing than hitting the right notes, but if you can't even do that without AutoTune, you certainly aren't going to have any musical "feel" to your singing. You could not create a pure voice like that of Karen Carpenter's with Autotune, nor one with the individuality of say James Taylor or Johnny Cash. But you can create a bland inoffensive voice suitable for the kind of bland inoffensive music that wins talent shows, which is mildly irritating, but you don't have to watch that stuff, and you also have plenty of choice as to what to listen to on the radio and elsewhere.

All in all there are many worse irritants in the world today to awaken your inner grumpy old man. [Wink]

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"Knowledge is Power. France is Bacon" - Milton

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The Famous Druid

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Icon 6 posted April 09, 2011 20:15      Profile for The Famous Druid     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
What is the music world coming to?

Maybe it's coming to this [Beard of Peter Gabriel!]

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If you watch 'The History Of NASA' backwards, it's about a space agency that has no manned spaceflight capability, then does low-orbit flights, then lands on the Moon.

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