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» The Geek Culture Forums   » News, Reviews, Views!   » Rants, Raves, Rumors!   » ARE Furiners taking over the US??

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Author Topic: ARE Furiners taking over the US??
TheMoMan
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Icon 1 posted March 28, 2011 20:41      Profile for TheMoMan         Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
____ I believe that many here work in high tech fields, are you in danger of being replaced?

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/dan-rather/business-visitor-visa-fraud_b_840633.html

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If it don't glow it ain't Ham Radio

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The Famous Druid

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Icon 1 posted March 28, 2011 22:33      Profile for The Famous Druid     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
...and the circle is complete.

Now the palefaces are complaining about Indians taking over America.

(sorry, couldn't resist)

But seriously,this visa abuse is easily fixed, if the politicians wanted to fix it, they'd do what the Danes did.

A friend of mine was one of about half a dozen people in the world who were experts in a system a Danish company wanted to use, so they brought him in on a 'visiting expert' visa to help set the system up.

The Danish government's way of preventing abuse of the 'visiting expert' visa was as follows...

If these skills are so rare that you can't find a Dane to do the job, the foreigner you're bringing in must be very valuable. The minimum wage you can pay a such a highly-skilled 'visiting expert' is (over 3 times what my friend was earning here in oz).

Hey presto! The flood of 'visiting expert' visa applications for hairdressers and taxi drivers dried up, while real 'visiting experts' were only too glad to work in Denmark.

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If you watch 'The History Of NASA' backwards, it's about a space agency that has no manned spaceflight capability, then does low-orbit flights, then lands on the Moon.

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Sprocket
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Icon 1 posted March 29, 2011 06:34      Profile for Sprocket   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
*facepalm* [Eek!]

This is one reason why I do not like big corporations!


Just my humble opinion that is all.

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Life would be so much easier if we only had the source code.

If brute force doesn't solve your problems, then you aren't using enough.

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quantumfluff
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Icon 1 posted March 29, 2011 11:54      Profile for quantumfluff     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
The Danish solution almost sounds good enough to work.

But personally, I welcome highly skilled immigrants. The US built several waves of extreme growth on immigrants. I would rather have India's most skilled innovating and creating opportunity in the US than in India or China.

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Sprocket
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Icon 1 posted March 29, 2011 12:23      Profile for Sprocket   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
That is a good point.

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Life would be so much easier if we only had the source code.

If brute force doesn't solve your problems, then you aren't using enough.

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dragonman97

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Icon 1 posted March 29, 2011 15:36      Profile for dragonman97   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by quantumfluff:
The Danish solution almost sounds good enough to work.

But personally, I welcome highly skilled immigrants. The US built several waves of extreme growth on immigrants. I would rather have India's most skilled innovating and creating opportunity in the US than in India or China.

Ditto on the Danish idea - bravo!

Also, I agree about Indians working /in/ the States, with an ironic twist - I find it kind of silly that there are so many talented people putting their skills to work for US companies when they could arguably be creating their own software and selling it. WTF?

Longer term, I'm a big fan of the idea of stapling visas to diplomas...it's arguably the best way to avoid a 'brain drain' and/or training our competition.

As to the leading story - I'm a little skeptical of the traveling rogue aspect, as so much outsourcing is already being done off our shores, that I'm surprised the need would be present to do it on the down-low.

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There are three things you can be sure of in life: Death, taxes, and reading about fake illnesses online...

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GrumpySteen

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Icon 1 posted March 30, 2011 01:31      Profile for GrumpySteen     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
dragonman97 wrote:
as so much outsourcing is already being done off our shores, that I'm surprised the need would be present to do it on the down-low.

It has nothing to do with need and everything to do with greed.

Visitor visas are available in unlimited numbers, are cheaper/easier to obtain and can last twice as long as an H-1B visa. The only problem is that it's illegal to come here and work under a visitor visa.

But...

If the amount of money saved by violating the law is greater than the fine a company might receive, it makes logical sense for them to violate the law.

Then there's the fact that companies never really get punished in the US. Even in the worst cases, such as when their actions directly injured/killed people, the punishment is usually a large-sounding fine which is often substantially less than the profits obtained from the illegal behavior.

Add it all together and you'll see that companies have virtually no incentive to follow the law and a very real incentive to break it.

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dragonman97

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Icon 1 posted March 30, 2011 07:50      Profile for dragonman97   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
I must admit that this comes a surprise to me. I guess I shouldn't be surprised by unethical people and companies, but I guess I thought that most places (read: big companies†) wanted to get their paperwork right.

We had to work damned hard to hire someone with an H-1B. Originally, she was a consultant, and the company she was with did the paperwork; but for us to hire her was nontrivial. And then...she moved back a year or two later (though she didn't want to - 'twas some family thing).

† n.b. I'm ignoring blatant illegal immigrant labor from this equation.

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There are three things you can be sure of in life: Death, taxes, and reading about fake illnesses online...

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TheMoMan
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Icon 1 posted March 31, 2011 00:39      Profile for TheMoMan         Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
____ I am going to threadjack my own thread. Heads up people!

http://www.hollandsentinel.com/opinions/x13292164/COLUMN-American-workers-got-what-they-deserved

____ This is a view I have held for many years.

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If it don't glow it ain't Ham Radio

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The Famous Druid

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Icon 1 posted March 31, 2011 09:16      Profile for The Famous Druid     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
From TFA:
Did you demand your leaders require foreign countries to buy a dollar’s worth of American goods for every dollar of goods they sell here?

Sorry MoMan, but I've gotta say that statement shows the writer is just as stupid and lazy (but in a different way) as the people he complains about.

In short, he'd be starting a trade war he couldn't win.

A quick look at America's trade balances will show it suffers huge trade deficits with a few countries (China, and some sandy places with oil) while enjoying huge trade surpluses with most of the rest (trade with Australia is 3:1 in your favour).

There's no way you can force the Arabs to buy $500 billion a year worth of American exports, if you tried, they'd just say "OK, we'll cut our exports to you to match our imports" - who do you think would blink first in that negotiation? So, day one of the trade war would be abject surrender to many of the countries doing you the most 'harm'.

Meanwhile, all those other countries who run big trade deficits with the USA would be tempted to follow your example, insisting that America buy their exports on a dollar-for-dollar basis. Every time I buy a copy of Microsoft Windows, you'd have to buy a couple of sacks of aussie wheat or sugar - can't see the American farm lobby being very happy about that. When America refuses to buy more aussie farm produce, we'd retaliate by cutting our imports from Merkinistan, and Australia would abandon Windows and switch en-mass to Linux.

On second thoughts, maybe that trade war would be a good idea...

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If you watch 'The History Of NASA' backwards, it's about a space agency that has no manned spaceflight capability, then does low-orbit flights, then lands on the Moon.

Posts: 10473 | From: Melbourne, Australia | Registered: Oct 2002  |  IP: Logged
TheMoMan
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Icon 1 posted March 31, 2011 20:42      Profile for TheMoMan         Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
____ I can always trust TFD to find the fly in the ointment.

____ Some more links about the US money policy and taxes.

http://www.vanityfair.com/society/features/2011/05/top-one-percent-201105

http://www.lcurve.org/

____ The tea baggers have not yet realized that they are being taken for a boat ride. Michigan needs to repair its bridges, Nooooo they want to build a new one with public money to compete with a privately owned one (DRIC).

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If it don't glow it ain't Ham Radio

Posts: 5494 | From: Just South of the Huron National Forest, in the water shed of the Rifle River | Registered: Sep 2002  |  IP: Logged
TheMoMan
BlabberMouth, a Blabber Odyssey
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Icon 1 posted April 02, 2011 00:21      Profile for TheMoMan         Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
____ Just some more reading material:

http://www.marketwatch.com/story/tax-the-super-rich-now-or-face-a-revolution-2011-03-29?pagenumber=1

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If it don't glow it ain't Ham Radio

Posts: 5494 | From: Just South of the Huron National Forest, in the water shed of the Rifle River | Registered: Sep 2002  |  IP: Logged


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