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Author Topic: "Swiss" watches
zesovietrussian
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Icon 2 posted November 21, 2008 14:12      Profile for zesovietrussian     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Can anybody please enlighten me as to why anybody would pay over a grand for this monstrosity with $16.95 quartz (ETA F06.111) movement? I understand true watch geeks (with really deep pockets) don't mind shelling out megabucks for an uber-exclusive Patek or JLC handmade by magic little swiss alpine trolls, but why would anybody in their right mind spend so much money on basic mass-produced quartz watch when they can get a much better-built though slightly lesser brand watch for $200? A quartz $1000 Tag is by no means a status symbol. Are people really such hopeless brand whores?
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GrumpySteen

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Icon 1 posted November 21, 2008 16:24      Profile for GrumpySteen     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
The same reason why some people will pay $6,708 (marked down from $13,416 dontchaknow) for a power cable that could be replaced with a $1 cable.

But hey... it's got a Brass Vibration Clutch!
(which would sound more plausible for a watch than for a power cable, come to think of it)

Basically you can tart up a pretty piece of junk and use big words and some people will buy it. Not entirely unlike the derivatives market...

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Grummash

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Icon 1 posted November 21, 2008 16:55      Profile for Grummash     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
zesovietrussian - fundamentally, most people are stoopid....really stoopid. Most people do what they are told to do, including buying rubbish at silly prices, but hey! that's FASHION.

On the watch theme, I'm too poor to be a real watch-geek, but If I had the resources I wouldn't go for Patek Phillipe - I used to like Breitling but they have gone very tacky. If my lottery numbers came up I would probably buy a hand-built mechanical piece, or maybe something from IWC.


GrumpySteen - what is this new physics you have discovered???
"At Virtual Dynamics, we utilize the latest in Cryogenic Technology - computer controlled deep cryogenic chambers freeze our product to 81 Kelvin (-184.4C / -300F). At these low temperatures, the conductor is restructured at the atomic level.

Can this really be true????

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GrumpySteen

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Icon 1 posted November 21, 2008 17:04      Profile for GrumpySteen     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
It's audiophile physics. Audiophiles are a special species of human who, if you read their sites, are very similar to UFO believers, free-energy believers and (to a lesser extent) conspiracy theorists... just with more access to money (or credit).

In short, they're FUN to laugh at!

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Grummash

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Icon 1 posted November 21, 2008 17:15      Profile for Grummash     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Oh right...I think I understand now... it's just "perpetual motion" dressed up by the marketing department! "Plus ca change...!

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...and yet, across the gulf of space, minds immeasurably superior to ours regarded this earth with envious eyes...

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Ashitaka

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Icon 1 posted November 22, 2008 01:12      Profile for Ashitaka     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
When I bought my swiss watch I had the option, for 200 more) to have a mechanical action in my watch instad of an electronic quartz timepeice. I went with quartz. Quartz keeps better time. THis 1000$ watch probably has a quartz action beuase people who shell out 1000 for a watch don't want to be bothered with reseting the time and winding. (500 - 1000 is entry to low mid level swiss watch prices.)

If people want to buy an expensive swiss watch with an action, they aer probably planing on giving more then 1000 out.


Also, swiss watches are made by people who earn alot more money then you, even the janitor that sweeps the factory floor. YOU can buy a quartz watch tht is just as accurate, but think of the shitlife the employee in china has. (which can argualby said would be worse if he didn't have the horrible factory job.

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zesovietrussian
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Icon 1 posted November 22, 2008 13:55      Profile for zesovietrussian     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Ashitaka:
When I bought my swiss watch I had the option, for 200 more) to have a mechanical action in my watch instad of an electronic quartz timepeice. I went with quartz. Quartz keeps better time. THis 1000$ watch probably has a quartz action beuase people who shell out 1000 for a watch don't want to be bothered with reseting the time and winding. (500 - 1000 is entry to low mid level swiss watch prices.)

If people want to buy an expensive swiss watch with an action, they aer probably planing on giving more then 1000 out.


Also, swiss watches are made by people who earn alot more money then you, even the janitor that sweeps the factory floor. YOU can buy a quartz watch tht is just as accurate, but think of the shitlife the employee in china has. (which can argualby said would be worse if he didn't have the horrible factory job.

What exactly is the point of buying a swiss famous brand entry-level quartz watch in the first place then? If it's simply a device that tells time and nothing else, one might as well get a $100 Seiko - it does the same thing, looks better, and is probably better made. As I pointed out, most entry-level models under $2,000 are absolutely hideous and probably have no more than $50 worth of parts in them. Are people really nice enough to care about all those poor swiss watch factory janitors? [Smile]
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tweety
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Icon 1 posted November 23, 2008 10:27      Profile for tweety   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
zesovietrussian – there are a lot of reasons: more than enough money, status, what is "in", historical reputation, marketing, marketing, marketing. Mrs Tweety bought me a Concord watch a few years back. Beautiful gold watch, quite expensive, but thinner, lighter, nicer all around than your average $100 Seiko. Now, I did inherit a gold tone Seiko from my grandfather, and that's been running for years. I also have a $100 ESQ (before they went all sporty) that is also a very, very nice watch.

The point about audiophiles can be applied to anything in which one is a collector, except for books. [Big Grin] I consider myself an audiophile, but I'm too intelligent to drop hundreds and hundreds of dollars on wire. Did I mention my father is an electrical engineer? To illustrate, about a year ago I bought new speakers. I listened to the B&Ws and Vienna Acoustics, but ultimately went with the same brand I was replacing: Wharfedale. For $300 & change I have some very, very nice speakers, curved cabinets, woven kevlar woofers, silk dome tweeters, that sound alive, warm, accurate. The B&Ws I listened to were $2500 for the pair and were too clinical. The Vienna Acoustics are $1250/pair and are thin sounding. So, for 12.5 - 25% of what I could have paid, I have speakers that I would say sound 95% as good as the B&Ws and much better than the Vienna Acoustics. Now, most audiophiles would spit and laugh in my face. But, hey, I didn't blow my load on speakers just because they are expensive and therefore somehow magically better.

I do have other examples of silly audiophile mythology being debunked, but this is a thread about precision timepieces, not precision sonic pistons.

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Xanthine

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Icon 1 posted November 23, 2008 11:04      Profile for Xanthine     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
/me doesn't wear a watch

I did, however, get my boyfriend a Swiss-made mechanical cuckoo clock. Some days it keeps more accurate time than others. Today it's running about seven minutes fast. It makes him so happy though. And it's nice to have one time piece that's still running even if the power goes out. Never mind it's not running accurately...

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TheMoMan
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Icon 1 posted November 23, 2008 11:24      Profile for TheMoMan         Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
_______________ Tweety __ I used to sell high end audio gear. So I really liked your

I do have other examples of silly audiophile mythology being debunked, but this is a thread about precision timepieces, not precision sonic pistons.

My own favorite Speakers were a design called the sweet sixteen. Four rows of Four speakers wired in series and then paralleled to get back to Eight ohms. Put them in a heavy enough Plywood box with a amp big enough to loaf and they would out sound many high end units.

My second biggest laugh was about speaker wire, too many people do not use big enough wire and are losing the sound in the wire. I preferred large lamp cord 14 gauge or if I could get it #12

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dragonman97

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Icon 1 posted November 23, 2008 13:48      Profile for dragonman97   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
I haven't worn a watch in close to 10 years, I imagine. My cell phone is my watch. However, it only gets network time, so I use a £10 mobile as my travel "watch," and I've been using it a bit more lately as an extra alarm clock. I recently came into a spring-driven watch that lacks a band, and use it as a tertiary clock -- it keeps surprisingly good time for a day or so, and I enjoy the anachronism.

I certainly can't see spending $1000 for such a watch, especially since the link doesn't work here....but I can understand the rationale for using quartz in it. Still, if I were really looking for a 'nice' watch, the most I could see spending is $200, and I'd consider that excessive. Realistically, if I had any notion of getting a watch, it'd be less than $50, as I'm just not big on throwing money away. Still, different strokes... (Someone's got to keep all those watch salespeople employed, right? [Wink] )

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tweety
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Icon 1 posted November 24, 2008 10:55      Profile for tweety   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
MoMan – I've been using lamp cord for years, I believe AWG 14. My speakers are bi-wireable w/gold binding posts (unheard of in sub-MSRP $500 speakers), and in my research I came across people who made their own bi-wire. Take long cord, cut in half, connect appropriately. It does work as advertised. Sure beats spending $15/ft for prettily packaged wiring with "exotic" thread twisting.

dman – The most expensive watch Mrs Tweety has ever worn, aside from a found Gucci, is the $100 Skagen watch I bought her years ago. She is admittedly murder on watches and refuses to purchase anything too expensive. In fact, a couple of years ago she cracked the crystal (not her fault), and we had a rather poor experience dealing with Skagen repair. We refuse to buy their watches to this day. The glue holding the crystal on melted when we were in Mexico, and a few weeks ago she attempted to clean out the mess, breaking the crown in the process. The watch got wet and is now dead. And, yes, $100 for a new watch is acceptable, but a little pricey. I, on the other hand, am anal to nearly a fault with watches, audio equipment, shoes, etc. The leather band on my Concord is finally coming apart (literally), but I won't spend $40 for a new band. I'd rather get a $15 - $20 band as I wear only leather bands and they last, at best, a year.

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spungo
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Icon 1 posted November 24, 2008 11:33      Profile for spungo     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
I bought a new strap for mine the other day (which cost more than the watch did originally). I looked on as the pretty assistant fastened it -- and couldn't fail to notice the years of compacted body ash that had formed near the pins -- which is ordinarily obscured. I felt compelled to remark to the assistant: "Mmm, sexy, huh?" But failed to. I wonder how many types of unique bacteria live around one's watch... there's no point to this post, by the way... I'm surprised you're still reading it... don't mind me... *closes lid*...

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zesovietrussian
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Icon 1 posted November 24, 2008 16:47      Profile for zesovietrussian     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by tweety:
MoMan – I've been using lamp cord for years, I believe AWG 14. My speakers are bi-wireable w/gold binding posts (unheard of in sub-MSRP $500 speakers), and in my research I came across people who made their own bi-wire. Take long cord, cut in half, connect appropriately. It does work as advertised. Sure beats spending $15/ft for prettily packaged wiring with "exotic" thread twisting.

dman – The most expensive watch Mrs Tweety has ever worn, aside from a found Gucci, is the $100 Skagen watch I bought her years ago. She is admittedly murder on watches and refuses to purchase anything too expensive. In fact, a couple of years ago she cracked the crystal (not her fault), and we had a rather poor experience dealing with Skagen repair. We refuse to buy their watches to this day. The glue holding the crystal on melted when we were in Mexico, and a few weeks ago she attempted to clean out the mess, breaking the crown in the process. The watch got wet and is now dead. And, yes, $100 for a new watch is acceptable, but a little pricey. I, on the other hand, am anal to nearly a fault with watches, audio equipment, shoes, etc. The leather band on my Concord is finally coming apart (literally), but I won't spend $40 for a new band. I'd rather get a $15 - $20 band as I wear only leather bands and they last, at best, a year.

Concords are nice watches, miles ahead of lower-end Tags that look and feel like a $50 Timex or Fossil. Get a nice strap for it, it's too good of a watch to be seen on some ugly el cheapo imitation leather strap. Just don't get one directly from Concord - they'll charge you an arm and a leg, especially if you need to replace the deployment clasp as well as the strap itself.
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TheMoMan
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Icon 1 posted November 24, 2008 17:05      Profile for TheMoMan         Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
________________ Tweety Should you need I could provide you with a source for polarity marked (red+black) zip cord in #10 AWG that will make those woofers thump. I think I saw a listing for all the way to #6

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Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.


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tweety
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Icon 1 posted November 25, 2008 12:56      Profile for tweety   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
zesovietrussian – Last I checked, Concord wanted $40 for the band. Ugly truth is, I can get a nearly identical band elsewhere for at most half that price. Seriously, it's cow leather with fake lizard stamping. They all look the same. Besides, I only buy real leather. I can't stand that plastic crap on my wrist. The hardest part is that the band is 16 mm wide, not the more average 18 mm. So, I'll be digging for a while.

MoMan – Thanks for the offer. PM with the source. I've been thinking about getting a heavier gauge wire for my speakers (but, they sound great as-is, partly due to my Harman/Kardon – high current is the way to go). Plus, when things around here get better I'm planning on getting a Rel Q108 sub which will also be a perfect time to once again redo the cabling.

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TheMoMan
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Icon 1 posted November 25, 2008 15:43      Profile for TheMoMan         Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
__________________ tweety __ I use these guys or if I am in a big hurry I go to a Car-stereo install shop and tell them I am installing a big ham linear amp they will sometimes times sell their wire bulk.


http://www.qsradio.com/DCpower.htm

About half way down the page thirty foot lengths.

I did not PM because others may want BIG WIRE.

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Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.


Benjamin Franklin,

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tweety
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Icon 1 posted November 25, 2008 16:36      Profile for tweety   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
MoMan – Thanks. Took a look. The 30' #12 wire works out to be $1.00/foot. I might have to do a comparison and check out #12 lamp cord at Lowe's, Menards, Home Depot, True Value and Ace. I'm wondering if I can get it for closer to $0.25 - $0.50/ft range. Either way, I'll keep them bookmarked for future reference.

BTW – There is a ton of material on the InterTubes about the marketing crap used to sell "exotic" speaker wiring. I read an article, somewhere, about a guy who's brother-in-law is a Ph.D. speaker maker. Very expensive speakers, about $15K a pair. His b-i-l invited over a few audiophile buddies and did a blind A-B test between some very, very expensive speaker wire and wire coat hangers. [Eek!] No one could conclusively tell the difference. Just thought I'd share.

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If I were a good man I'd talk to you more often than I do.
American Fairy Tales
IT, A Philosophy

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TheMoMan
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Icon 1 posted November 26, 2008 02:21      Profile for TheMoMan         Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
_______________ Tweety __ Some electrical supply houses may have better prices, we hams like that type as any other fool can tell it is polarized. with out looking for the rib/s on one lead. The insulation on the wire from ham houses is heavier this helps when pulling into car or truck bodies and you don't want abrasion and wear through.

Also some electrical houses sell bulk single stranded Machine wire (intended for pulling into conduit), in five hundred foot rolls.

B-I-L's one I had bought a nice system from a competitor and then started to complain about lack of highs and mussy bass. Yup #20 wire. I brought him some #14 and was he ever pleased. Then he claimed he was going to get jumper cables, he did eventually get #10.

The sweet sixteen system is nice in that each speaker does not have to travel huge distances to generate the same sound pressure as a three way Box. (Woofer,Mid, and Tweeter) I have not built any in a while so have no clue what it would cost to build a nice one. My old AR's need to be resuspended, age rot.

http://www.roger-russell.com/columns/columns.htm

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Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.


Benjamin Franklin,

Posts: 5835 | From: Just South of the Huron National Forest, in the water shed of the Rifle River | Registered: Sep 2002  |  IP: Logged
zesovietrussian
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Icon 1 posted November 26, 2008 08:26      Profile for zesovietrussian     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Coat hangers are even cheaper [Wink]
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neotatsu
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Icon 1 posted December 02, 2008 06:20      Profile for neotatsu     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Actually... I don't own a watch at all.

I use my cell phone... Though, actually my cell phone's screen is busted, so I can't see the time...

Good thing I'm on the compy, or I wouldn't bloody know that it's 6 hours later than I should have gone to bed. Considering it's the same level of darkness outside now as it was at 4pm yesterday afternoon...

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MTB Babe
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Icon 1 posted December 16, 2008 15:42      Profile for MTB Babe   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
I hate wearing a watch.
When I started grad school, I hadn't worn a watch in about 7 years. But then I started showing up to really important meetings late, my cell phone screen stopped working...anyways, I'm tied to a watch now [Frown]
Oh, I found a rug to go with the Tag Heuer masterpiece [crazy]

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Xanthine

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Icon 1 posted December 16, 2008 16:24      Profile for Xanthine     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
I don't wear a watch. I can take a guess with about half-hour accuracy from the sun and my own circadian rhythm (yet another reason my boyfriend thinks they would have burned me as a witch 400 years ago [Razz] ) and when that's not good enough I have my iPod, my computer clock, clocks on walls, etc. My lack of punctuality is completely independent of my wearing a watch. It's not like I'm missing anything other than sweat collecting under the wrist band.

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And it's one, two, three / On the wrong side of the lee / What were you meant for? / What were you meant for?
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Sxeptomaniac

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Icon 1 posted December 16, 2008 16:31      Profile for Sxeptomaniac   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
I don't really like wearing wristwatches, but I do use pocket watches now and then. Mostly I just use my cellphone for time these days, though.

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Let's pray that the human race never escapes from Earth to spread its iniquity elsewhere. - C. S. Lewis

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