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Author Topic: The ORIGINAL Jack Sparrow
Antiquity
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Icon 1 posted August 12, 2008 09:45      Profile for Antiquity   Author's Homepage         Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Today I watched crouching tiger hidden dragon and it struck me that the desert bandit Lo is kinda like our favourite pirate Jack Sparrow.

Now, seeing as crouching tiger was out waaaaaay before POTC does this mean the creators got their ideas from far eastern independant movies, and have nicked the JS idea from Ang Lee?

Lo is the original captain jack and i think that whoever wrote that part deserves to be acknowledged as not only being ahead of POTC but providing inspiration for one of the most successful movies of all time!

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The Famous Druid

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Icon 1 posted August 12, 2008 14:30      Profile for The Famous Druid     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Disney, steal ideas from asian film-makers?
Never!

The Lion King is nothing like Kimba The White Lion.

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GrumpySteen

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Icon 1 posted August 12, 2008 15:20      Profile for GrumpySteen     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Johnny Depp created most of the character that you think of as Jack Sparrow and Depp admits that he based a lot of the character on Keith Richards. That's actually why, in the third movie, they brought Keith Richards in to play Jack Sparrow's dad.

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Antiquity
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Icon 1 posted August 12, 2008 15:29      Profile for Antiquity   Author's Homepage         Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
The character of Lo is by no means the same as JS and of course Disney have not copied CTHD exactly so yes, JS is a creation in its own right and is far more like Keith Richards than Lo.
im just pointing out that perhaps the dress sense, hair and all round coolness evolved from the CTHD bandit.

however this post is by NO MEANS an accusation or slander against disney, i am a JS fan myself, im just making a point like any other.

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Xanthine

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Icon 1 posted August 12, 2008 16:15      Profile for Xanthine     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
I thought the all around coolness evolved from Keith Richards. Disney was terrified at first. THey almost fired Depp, and then they decided to trust him. One of the best decisions made, IMO. POTC would have been utterly lame without Depp's Captain Jack Sparrow.

Aside from that, Lo and Sparrow are very different people. Sparrow would never get as lovelorn as Lo did.

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GrumpySteen

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Icon 1 posted August 12, 2008 16:32      Profile for GrumpySteen     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Xanthine wrote:
Sparrow would never get as lovelorn as Lo did.

Unless you count the Black Pearl [Smile]

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Antiquity
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Icon 1 posted August 13, 2008 14:55      Profile for Antiquity   Author's Homepage         Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Sparrow was lovelorn in The Black Pearl?
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DoctorWho

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Icon 1 posted August 13, 2008 14:58      Profile for DoctorWho     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
I believe Steen is talking about the ship itself and not the movie.

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GrumpySteen

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Icon 1 posted August 13, 2008 15:13      Profile for GrumpySteen     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
I was talking about the ship. Just look at the lengths Jack was willing to go to in order to get her back. If that's not love, then love doesn't exist. [Wink]

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Antiquity
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Icon 1 posted August 14, 2008 03:38      Profile for Antiquity   Author's Homepage         Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
True, he did love that ship
It was perhaps the strangest love plot disney have come up with yet.

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Icon 1 posted August 14, 2008 10:35      Profile for shentzu     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
what druid? only one example?

contest, name 5 full length disney cartoons not stolen (plot wise) and i shall be impressed.

and no, pixar films don't count.

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GrumpySteen

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Icon 1 posted August 14, 2008 11:21      Profile for GrumpySteen     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Off the top of my head...

AristoCats
Bambi
The Black cauldron
Brother Bear
Chicken Little
Fantasia
Finding Nemo
Lady and the Tramp
Lilo and Stitch
Monsters, Inc.

Of course, if you want to get nit-picky, there are only a handful of basic plots in the first place and all stories are simply a rehash of one or more of those plots.

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Icon 1 posted August 14, 2008 11:39      Profile for DoctorWho     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Good job Steen. Although Finding Nemo and Monsters Inc. were both Pixar films which are don't count according to shentzu.

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Stereo

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Icon 12 posted August 14, 2008 12:38      Profile for Stereo     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Steen: good effort, but I must get some out of your list.

Bambi: the film is based on the 1923 book Bambi, A Life in the Woods by Austrian author Felix Salten

Black Cauldron: It is based on Lloyd Alexander's Chronicles of Prydain book series.

Chicken Little: The film is inspired by the fable The Sky is Falling (also known as Chicken Licken, Henny Penny, or Chicken Little).

Fantasia - The Sorcerer's Apprentice: based on Goethe's balladic poem Der Zauberlehrling (1797), was planned as a special Mickey Mouse short and would be completely silent save for the program music by Paul Dukas, L'apprenti sorcier (1897). (Others part may be seen as original, but a few hardly have a story to begin with.)

Lady and the Tramp: The film was based on a short story written by Ward Greene, called Happy Dan, The Cynical Dog.

(Data extracted from Wikipedia, but I guess it can be trusted on this.)

With the two Pixar films not counting... Sorry! [Razz]

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Icon 1 posted August 14, 2008 12:48      Profile for DoctorWho     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Well, at least he got three. Not too bad considering.

Edit: What about Dumbo and The Rescuers?

Edit: Nevermind, both of them are based on children's books. Man this is a tough one shentzu.

Third Edit: Looks like I was wrong about getting three Steen.

Aristocats is based on a story by Tom McGowan and Tom Rowe.

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GrumpySteen

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Icon 1 posted August 14, 2008 13:15      Profile for GrumpySteen     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Stereo wrote:
Steen: good effort, but I must get some out of your list.

Everything I mentioned was, if I'm not mistaken, either done with permission or done from a work that was in the public domain... thus none of it was stolen, which was the original challenge.

*shrug*

If we get into the nit-picking about redoing something which has already be done then, as I pointed out, nothing is new. It's all be done.

As a species, however, we love to hear the same stories over and over with new characters and settings. I'm not sure why, but we do.

... and don't even ask how many times I've watched The Black Cauldron, Lady and the Tramp, and Charlotte's Web (which is Hanna-Barbara, not Disney but is still wonderful) [Smile]

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Stereo

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Icon 14 posted August 14, 2008 13:48      Profile for Stereo     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Steen:
Stereo wrote:
Steen: good effort, but I must get some out of your list.

Everything I mentioned was, if I'm not mistaken, either done with permission or done from a work that was in the public domain... thus none of it was stolen, which was the original challenge.

*shrug*

It's not much to deprive you of your (traditionnaly worthless) prize, just that I had some fun searching them, and learned a few things while doing so.

So, I'll bow: we have a winner! [Applause]

(Yet, I must say I am irritated with Disney re-writing traditionnal stories to the point that they loose their original meaning. Especially with their more recent features. Hunchback: it's not an evil judge, but an evil priest; Phoebus is engaged, and the only main protagonist to stay alive. Beauty and the Beast: Belle's father used to be rich but had fallen to hard time; she has two sisters who try to have her killed by the beast, but get turned into stone at the end. Little Mermaid? She DIES! etc.)

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GrumpySteen

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Icon 1 posted August 14, 2008 14:19      Profile for GrumpySteen     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
I agree about most of the re-written ones... mostly the ones made during and after the tenure of Eisner as CEO. He started a trend toward making everything more politically correct and merchandiseable rather than continuing the tradition of telling good stories. Unfortunately, the greedy culture Eistner has continues on even after his exit.

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shentzu
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Icon 1 posted August 14, 2008 14:50      Profile for shentzu     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Steen:
Off the top of my head...

AristoCats
Bambi
The Black cauldron
Brother Bear
Chicken Little
Fantasia
Finding Nemo
Lady and the Tramp
Lilo and Stitch
Monsters, Inc.

Of course, if you want to get nit-picky, there are only a handful of basic plots in the first place and all stories are simply a rehash of one or more of those plots.

ok, i did say stolen, and i am bad. i humbly apologize. i am offended at the lack of originality.

pixars films may all have familiar themes, but they are truly original works.

actually i am more than happy to accept fantasia because it is a collection and not plot based, but the pixar films are out, and as Stereo said [Razz] on the others.

oh, and lilo and stitch is another film i absolutely love.

i will also accept the tigger movie, for i am not against using others characters in new stories. though the piglet movie reuses a lot it has a new theme which i liked. but it doesn't count. [Razz]

but even with such open acceptance, i only count 3 there.

don't get me started on brother bear or mulan, both of which were stories i knew before i was allowed in a theater.

how many animated features doe disney have under their belt? 50 or so? can't we come up with 5?

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shentzu
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Icon 1 posted August 14, 2008 14:51      Profile for shentzu     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Steen:
Unfortunately, the greedy culture Eistner has continues on even after his exit.

give John time. i think he can turn much of it around.....

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The Famous Druid

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Icon 1 posted August 14, 2008 15:23      Profile for The Famous Druid     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Steen:
Everything I mentioned was, if I'm not mistaken, either done with permission or done from a work that was in the public domain... thus none of it was stolen, which was the original challenge.

Pet peeve #327:
Many of the early Disney classics are screen adaptations of out-of-copyright stories, using out-of-copyright music for the soundtrack.

These days, every time the copyright on early Disney works gets close to expiry, a large truckload of cash arrives at Capitol Hill, and another 20 or so years is added to the copyright term.

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GrumpySteen

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Icon 1 posted August 14, 2008 17:40      Profile for GrumpySteen     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Lilo and Stitch? Bad guy winds up with a good girl who's in trouble, turns out to actually be a good guy who saves the good girl, bad guys show up to capture the good/bad guy but he foils them and saves the day, close with a heartwarming ending.

Lady and the Tramp did that same storyline four decades earlier. [Roll Eyes]

Nothing is new and it's all been done once you start nitpicking *shrug* Doesn't mean it's not fun to hear the stories retold a different way.

I do hope Disney turns around, but I'm not going to hold my breath.

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Xanthine

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Icon 1 posted August 14, 2008 22:54      Profile for Xanthine     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
The seven basic plots:
1 - [wo]man vs. nature

2 - [wo]man vs. man

3 - [wo]man vs. the environment

4 - [wo]man vs. machines/technology

5 - [wo]man vs. the supernatural

6 - [wo]man vs. self

7 - [wo]man vs. god/religion

The seven basic elements of a storyline:
1. A hero – the person through whose eyes we see the story unfold, set against a larger background.

2. The hero’s character flaw – a weakness or defense mechanism that hinders the hero in such a way as to render him/her incomplete.

3. Enabling circumstances – the surroundings the hero is in at the beginning of the story, which allow the hero to maintain his/her character flaw.

4. An opponent – someone who opposes the hero in getting or doing what he/she wants. Not always a villain. For example, in a romantic comedy, the opponent could be the man or woman whom the hero seeks romance with. The opponent is the person who instigates the life-changing event.

5. The hero’s ally – the person who spends the most time with the hero and who helps the hero overcome his/her character flaw.

6. The life-changing event – a challenge, threat or opportunity
usually instigated by the opponent, which forces the hero to respond in some way that’s related to the hero’s flaw.

7. Jeopardy – the high stakes that the hero must risk to overcome his/her flaw. These are the dramatic events that lend excitement and challenge to the quest.

Google Answers is pretty cool.

So, yes, it's all been told before. Over and over. A million times. But it's the differences in the telling that makes it all worthwhile.

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And it's one, two, three / On the wrong side of the lee / What were you meant for? / What were you meant for?
- The Decemberists

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The Famous Druid

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Icon 1 posted August 14, 2008 23:08      Profile for The Famous Druid     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
You forgot "Pizza boy delivers pizza to hot lonely housewife..."

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Icon 1 posted August 15, 2008 01:57      Profile for Callipygous     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
The Pirates of the Caribbean films were actually unusual in that they are probably the only films to be based on a theme park ride.

Disney have always based their cartoons on other works, but they didn't exactly invent the "film of the book". They have also always from the beginning played fast and loose with such stories, and lacing them with as much syrupy sentimentality as they can stand. What is surprising is that, notwithstanding this, they have so often produced really excellent films. In my opinion the best Disney cartoon of all is "Jungle Book", which of course bears almost no relation at all to the source material.

The only adaptations of theirs that I really actively dislike is their Winnie the Pooh series, as all the qualities of the original stories and illustrations have been lost, and replaced by something utterly bland and characterless. That Disney then went on to buy the copyright to the books, in particular to stop any merchandise or other material based on the original A.E. Milne stories or E. H. Shepherd illustrations appearing is despicable. They are attempting to ensure that their denatured version is the only one that children will know, and this is an act of cultural vandalism.

I don't think Eisner can be blamed for jumping on the merchandising bandwagon. I was under the impression that it was George Lucas's success with merchandising the Star Wars brand that made it inevitable that the big studios would follow suit.

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